rememer the choice was coughlin vs lewis

[stsslick]

mike brown wanted coughlin
his daughter wanted lewis
coughlin has to deal with a lot in NY and still wins

[Utts]

He also wins without Chad Johnson, go figure.

[always a bengal]

mike brown wanted coughlin
his daughter wanted lewis
coughlin has to deal with a lot in NY and still wins

Don't forget that Lewis is working under a poor front office. Coughlin works for a owner who wants a championship. Mike Brown is the underhanded loosing curse on the Cincinnati Bengals.

[ShovelheadT]

He also wins without Chad Johnson, go figure.

lmao...good one.

[DaytonBengalBuck]

Don't forget that Lewis is working under a poor front office. Coughlin works for a owner who wants a championship. Mike Brown is the underhanded loosing curse on the Cincinnati Bengals.

this is the sad truth. I respect Mike brown for not running to LA with this team, but please Mike, get someone to run your team for you.

[DennyG2]

Marvin and the bengals will be great in08'......remember that.

[J24]

In 2005 everyone was happy with Marvin Lewis, Alot things have happened to the bengals as far as injury, retirement, suspension and personel descisions that have affected the Bengals since then that Marvin really can not control.

[Jumbro]

Marvin and the bengals will be great in08'......remember that.

Have you seen our schedule.....what, 7 playoff teams....it will be NO easy task, that is for sure...but I am hoping like mad that you are right

[DennyG2]

Have you seen our schedule.....what, 7 playoff teams....it will be NO easy task, that is for sure...but I am hoping like mad that you are right

have faith brother bengal fan, and I know you do.

[ThePekoSquad]

Marvin and the bengals will be great in08'......remember that.

Unless we have a good free agency signing or signings, and a very good draft, this team is still going to finish at .500 or even worse, we have many cancers on this team, so unless they are cut or traded, I still see this team being immature.

But that is also just me talking 2 weeks since we played and no moves have been made thus far.

[Buckeyehitman]

Coughlin is also about as cuddly as a brillo pad.

His own players say he causes them to underachieve (Shockey and Barber saying they were outcoached in back to back playoff games). Barber retired on him because of his actions.

He might be a good coach, but his players don't play hard for him, because they flat out don't like him. If he came to Cincy, offseason 2006 might never have happened, but we probably wouldn't have very many players trying to stay here either.

[Treee]

He also wins without Chad Johnson, go figure.

Did Chad steal your girlfriend or something? All you ever do is bag on Cj. Why dont you talk about other people who didn't show up like Rudi, the D, Carson, ect?

[warsteiner138]

I thought Mike Brown wanted Mike Murlarkey but Murlarkey said no thanks. So than he hired Marvin; who I think is better than Murlarkey.

[Pork Chop]

mike brown wanted coughlin
his daughter wanted lewis
coughlin has to deal with a lot in NY and still wins

And if Marvin Lewis and the Bengals played in the NFC, they'd have three or four playoffs appearances and likely a couple of wins. Remember: the Giants made the playoffs at 8-8 last season by virtue of winning the Strength of Victory tiebreak over the Packers. They then made a quick exit. We had a better record than the Giants and didn't get to go to the playoffs because we're in the wrong conference.

And given the talent level in the NFC right, Cincinnati would have more than one winning season under Marvin Lewis.

Pork Chop

[o&b]

He also wins without Chad Johnson, go figure.

they also have a defense!!!

[pat5775]

Don't be fooled by the Giants, Coughlin, or Eli. They got lucky this year, and are very overrated IMO. Coughlin has hardly ever impressed me, and this year is no exception. Ever since their "big playoff win" yesterday, the media has been kissing their ***, saying Eli is finally coming into his own (yeah like we haven't heard that before) and Coughlin has finally put a great team together (Come on, they beat the who? The Bucs? With an injured QB? Wow... big cause for celebration). Looked to me like Tampa Bay choked, but we hear nothing about that. All the credit goes to Coughlin. When the Giants play the Cowboys next week, they will most likely lose, and the New York media will be all over Eli and Coughlin once again. It's a never ending cycle in New York. Unless Coughlin proves me wrong and finds a way to somehow get his team to the Super Bowl, my opinion on this man will never change. Bottom line, I'm happy with Marvin... for now.

[Pork Chop]

Don't be fooled by the Giants, Coughlin, or Eli. They got lucky this year, and are very overrated IMO.

I wouldn't go so far as to say they got lucky. That's a decent defense they've got there, they have a talented running back, and they're 8-1 on the road. The Giants have some nice things going for them.

That said, I agree with you that Eli isn't as good as everyone is making him out to be. He managed the game horribly against the Patriots, using the full 40 seconds on each play despite his team allegedly running a hurry-up offense because they were down 10 with four minutes to play. He may one day blossom into as talented a quarterback as his brother, but he's not there yet.

Still, I wouldn't sell the Giants too short. Two years in a row, they won when they really needed to (to clinch a playoffs berth). We haven't seen that from the Bengals since the second Pittsburgh game in 2005.

Pork Chop

[87BOOSTED]

Don't be fooled by the Giants, Coughlin, or Eli. They got lucky this year, and are very overrated IMO. Coughlin has hardly ever impressed me, and this year is no exception. Ever since their "big playoff win" yesterday, the media has been kissing their ***, saying Eli is finally coming into his own (yeah like we haven't heard that before) and Coughlin has finally put a great team together (Come on, they beat the who? The Bucs? With an injured QB? Wow... big cause for celebration). Looked to me like Tampa Bay choked, but we hear nothing about that. All the credit goes to Coughlin. When the Giants play the Cowboys next week, they will most likely lose, and the New York media will be all over Eli and Coughlin once again. It's a never ending cycle in New York. Unless Coughlin proves me wrong and finds a way to somehow get his team to the Super Bowl, my opinion on this man will never change. Bottom line, I'm happy with Marvin... for now.

Hate to dissagree but while watching Marvin Lewis I feel as if im watching a man that is one step behind what is occuring on the field. He seems to be a nice guy and honestly one of the worst game managers I have ever seen. His team has more talent than most and will probably go nowhere under his tutlage, sorry I am dissapointed and there were several meltdowns in 2005 that signaled what has come to be. Many times he is slow to throw a flag and I often ponder who is behind him to give him a hand as it seems to me he is utterly clueless on timeouts. Constantly I am reminded of this coaching regime by carson palmer taking knees on opposing teams when we could have a free play. If anyone should have been fired this offseason it should of been the OC followed by the DC and anyone related to QB coaching, and receivers progress. Also you can credit the defense to some semblance of urgency as they did accomplish some things this season fighting for positions for next season. The offense is just too cushy with their jobs and seemed to be playing for the couch rather than the playoffs for much of the season. With Coughlin I would have seen a much better game manager and as for respect....the players show little respect for marvin and he shows little for them in his press conferences. Thats my opinion and I could write a book on where we are now and the similarities and mistakes that have progressively become more evident as of late....it is funny that you can see the same problems over and over again in games, thats coaching folks and without SOME HUGE changes in offensive scheming I do not know if we will get any better next year....

[Pork Chop]

Many times he is slow to throw a flag and I often ponder who is behind him to give him a hand as it seems to me he is utterly clueless on timeouts.


Marvin's not clueless on timeouts or slow to the throw the flag. He's a conservative coach, who's operating from a very specific philosophy. Whether or not it's effective is a matter for debate, but it's not because he doesn't know what he's doing.

Constantly I am reminded of this coaching regime by carson palmer taking knees on opposing teams when we could have a free play.


Earlier this season both Marvin and Brat explained that Carson doesn't always have a play called when this happens. He brings the team to the line, looks over the defense and starts barking out signals. There's no way to run a free play if there isn't a play called to begin with. I have to admit, the way they do this makes me uncomfortable, and it backfired on them twice this season. But it's just another way of playing the game -- taking your free five yards and then deciding what to do next.

If anyone should have been fired this offseason it should of been the OC followed by the DC and anyone related to QB coaching, and receivers progress.


I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with this. Bob Bratkowski has a proven track record of success with this team. This was a bad year for our offense, and we still ended up 11th in the league. I'll take that. Mike Sheppard was in his first year as receivers coach. You're going to fire a guy after only one season? That doesn't make any kind of sense.

Chuck Bresnehan, OTOH, had three seasons to deliver something worth having. His best defensive finish was 27th. After three years of that, you have to make a change. That's just not an acceptable level of achievement.

as for respect....the players show little respect for marvin and he shows little for them in his press conferences.

I don't know about the players showing little respect for Marvin, but I definitely agree with you he shows little for them in his press conferences. I've never seen a coach who throws his players under the bus as much as Marvin does, and I have to say it bothers me. I wish Marvin would publicly put a little more responsibility on the coaches. I don't know how it works behind the scenes, but in front of them it bothers me that the players get blamed so much but the coaches don't.

Pork Chop

[Skeeter McGee]

Unless we have a good free agency signing or signings, and a very good draft, this team is still going to finish at .500 or even worse, we have many cancers on this team, so unless they are cut or traded, I still see this team being immature.

But that is also just me talking 2 weeks since we played and no moves have been made thus far.

You're absolutely right on that one. :thumbsup:

[BengalBarry]

Did Chad steal your girlfriend or something? All you ever do is bag on Cj. Why dont you talk about other people who didn't show up like Rudi, the D, Carson, ect?

Chad couldn't have stole his girlfriend, theres no way any girl would even look at the crusty old bat.


I am happy we diedn't get Coughlin, he is an overbearing dictator who the players hate, Marvin is a much better coach.

[fredtoast]

Coughlin's record in his four years with the Giants is exactly the same as Lewis's first four years with the Bengals, 35-29.

The big difference is that in the four years before Coughlin arrived the Gianst were 33-31. The four years bevore Marvin arrived the Bengals were 16-48.

[Danno]

they also have a defense!!!

and they have great pass rush.... Coincidence? :thumbsup:

[Fansince1970]

Don't forget that Lewis is working under a poor front office. Coughlin works for a owner who wants a championship. Mike Brown is the underhanded loosing curse on the Cincinnati Bengals.

This is the true difference in the two teams.

[pat5775]

Chad couldn't have stole his girlfriend, theres no way any girl would even look at the crusty old bat.


I am happy we diedn't get Coughlin, he is an overbearing dictator who the players hate, Marvin is a much better coach.

An "overbearing dictator" is not necessarily a bad thing. The real difference between Coughlin and Lewis is that Coughlin is a hardass, and Marvin is somewhat of a pushover. Marvin is just too nice to his players. You have to get in their face once in awhile and punish them for their mistakes, these are the coaches who win consistently (Bill Cowher, Bobby Knight, Pat Riley, Herb Brooks, Red Auerbach, Brian Kelly, etc.). All players need it, especially on this team. I've only seen Marvin yell at a player once (In 2005 when Chris Henry recieved an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty after scoring a TD. Marvin had a handfull of Chris' facemask and was screaming right into his face. The fiery side of Marvin appeared for one brief moment and disappeared forever shortly after). What do you think Coughlin would have done if he were the HC here while all the arrests were happening? I have a feeling we would have had much fewer arrests than 9... or 10... or whatever the heck it was.

[87BOOSTED]

Marvin's not clueless on timeouts or slow to the throw the flag. He's a conservative coach, who's operating from a very specific philosophy. Whether or not it's effective is a matter for debate, but it's not because he doesn't know what he's doing.



Earlier this season both Marvin and Brat explained that Carson doesn't always have a play called when this happens. He brings the team to the line, looks over the defense and starts barking out signals. There's no way to run a free play if there isn't a play called to begin with. I have to admit, the way they do this makes me uncomfortable, and it backfired on them twice this season. But it's just another way of playing the game -- taking your free five yards and then deciding what to do next.



I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with this. Bob Bratkowski has a proven track record of success with this team. This was a bad year for our offense, and we still ended up 11th in the league. I'll take that. Mike Sheppard was in his first year as receivers coach. You're going to fire a guy after only one season? That doesn't make any kind of sense.

Chuck Bresnehan, OTOH, had three seasons to deliver something worth having. His best defensive finish was 27th. After three years of that, you have to make a change. That's just not an acceptable level of achievement.



I don't know about the players showing little respect for Marvin, but I definitely agree with you he shows little for them in his press conferences. I've never seen a coach who throws his players under the bus as much as Marvin does, and I have to say it bothers me. I wish Marvin would publicly put a little more responsibility on the coaches. I don't know how it works behind the scenes, but in front of them it bothers me that the players get blamed so much but the coaches don't.

Pork Chop

I am going to reference Bob Brakowski as I feel this is the most important aspect of our team that stinks. Yes we finished 11th in total offense where we should have finished in the top 5....we are progressively getting worse and the problems that have plagued this offense in years past are coninually being amplified. For instance on third downs this team was better than in 05 BUT that is extremely deceptive as getting a third down when it mattered was rare. They lost vs good teams, we were dominated by Pitt 2x rocked by the Patriots, and honestly a host of other losses vs bad teams that we could not win versus. Our offense is stumbly and looks as awkward as many of the worst, but comes alive at times and shows glimpses of promise. Something is seriously wrong with this team though...coaching is my blame and it lies directly on the offensive coaches, Kenny Watson should have been running it since the Jets game and yet that never happened causing IMO a few extra losses and no chance at the playoffs. It is painful to see teams line up and Rush Palmer EVERY play when Rudi is in there, he is just too slow. The same thing lies on Brakowski, when is he going to show me something with a TON of talent on offense, I could go on and on citing multiple instances where Marvin seemed confused in games and announcers guessing plays and then us running them for no gain. **** watching Rudi Johnson run for no gain with a hole right in front of him on the goal line was the nail in the coffin for me. I stand by my team but this is not a conservative offense as the defense lacks depth. The only area I feel is solid on this team at this pt is the Special teams play. A huge improvement from earlier in the year, I have no clew how they looked so badly early on. I have to dissagree with you on Marvin being clueless at times, early on in the season we were burning TO's in the third qtr only to need a comeback win at the end with a prayer lying on carson. Not fair IMO and this team just lacks coordination, and looks awkward far to often..

[TonyRitchie]

As you may recall when the Brown's selected Marvin to be the new coach it came down to him and Tom Coughlin who ended up with the Giants. After the first couple of years I thought the decision to take Marvin was brilliant. Now I am not so sure. This is Couglin's third trip to the playoffs since taking over the Giants. He has also had them as many years as Marvin has had the Bengals.

Thoughts?:tiger:

[Jason]

The team that Coughlin took over was a couple of seasons removed from the Super Bowl! I know that they lost, but they had an established core of pretty good players. They also had a history of winning in NY. The team that Marvin inherited was 2-14. In the 02 season I had half jokeingly bet my buddy that they would not cross the 50 yrd line that season. There was a culture of losing here, which has been replaced by unrealistic expectations. People are picking us as champs at the end of every season on these boards, and claiming that we would have won it in 05 if not for Kimo. In short I feel that Marvin has done a great job! He at least made this team viable, and arrests aside they are no longer punch lines. To quote Denzel in Training Day " This s#*t is chess, not checkers"! We'll be alright.

[ddogg]

Sometimes I think the same thing, I dont know maybe Lewis will be great next year
:tiger:

[HellMarine]

Instead of creating threads, ddogg is going to reply in every single thread created.

[fredtoast]

Coughlin was fired because he couldn't win at Jacksonville. He went from winning 36 games in 3 years to only 25 in the next four years.

He has now made the playoffs in 3 straight years, but one of those years he made it at 8-8.

[Carsons-Arsenal]

Its a tough comparison between Lewis and Coughlin because IMO both inherited different cicumstances. Marvin inherited a bottom of the barrel franchise and was tasked the unenviable job of turning it around. Tom was asked to coach perhaps in one of the toughest enviornments that a coach must perform. Both in my mind have done fairly well. I would give coughlin the edge at this point because of the way he handled the whole Tiki Eli nonesence, the fact that he coaches in New York and is now deep in the playoffs. But I also beleive he has at the moment a better all around team. Marvin in his first 3 years did as well or better than most expected him to. I think over the last 2 seasons he's slumped a little bit (largely in part to injuries and suspensions) but is due for a big bounce back season (fingers crossed). With a fresh outlook and some new coaches and players we should be in store for some significant improvements.

Coughlin B+
Lewis C+

[Jason]

Coughlin was fired because he couldn't win at Jacksonville. He went from winning 36 games in 3 years to only 25 in the next four years.

He has now made the playoffs in 3 straight years, but one of those years he made it at 8-8.
The Bengals would be steady making the playoffs in the NFC.

[Carsons-Arsenal]

The Bengals would be steady making the playoffs in the NFC.

I know...I've been saying it for years now...we would be a juggernaut in the :nfc:

[oc benzoo]

Good points, and they called for his job in September, I think????

[DennyG2]

it is almost impossible to compare, I would still take Marvin and do believe it gets turned around in 08'

[The Bengal Thing]

Lot of good responses here:

http://boards.bengals.com/showthread.php?t=10301&highlight=Coughlin

[dadz]

Tom Coughlin, could of, would of, should of been the Bengals head coach!

Why did Mike Brown pick Marvin Lewis over Tom Coughlin ?

[MakersMark]

He obviously did it in order to sabatoge the entire bengals organization.


Hindsight is 20/20.


Get over it.

[Bengal Dude]

I believe Brown actually wanted Coughlin, but Katie pushed and pushed for Marvin and Mike bought into it. So some anger needs to be directed towards Katie if you're angry about Marvin over Coughlin. Plus, Katie was the biggest pusher, there were others who also wanted Marvin here.

[Jom112]

The better question is why didn't we fire Chuck B. last offseason and hire Steve Spagnuolo?

[Clark W Griswold]

That is what I heard too - Katie and the kids actually picked Marvin.

It is pointless to argue this because in NY they have been calling for Coughlin to lose his job almost since his first season. After 05 I bet no one wanted him over Marvin. Now he is the savior but that is life in the NFL. Would have bet on Eli or Peyton to go to the Super Bowl this year? You just never know how things will turn out.

I understand the frustration but there are no guarantees that Coughlin's style would have worked with our players. Remember he changed a lot this year and we do not know how it would have played out in Cincy.

[XOrange&BlackX]

Why not just blame the whole Front Office for all the coaching mistakes we had?

[34inXXIII]

Why not just blame the whole Front Office for all the coaching mistakes we had?
Done. B)

[dadz]

He obviously did it in order to sabatoge the entire bengals organization.


Hindsight is 20/20.


Get over it.

Hindsight is 20/20. ?

I believe Coughlin brought more to the table. I'm sure I'm not the only one that saw Coughlin's experience being a plus when it comes to coaching a team.
But.................
I 'd be lying if I told you I wasn't happy that Mike Brown hired Marvin since he was outside the organization.

[Pork Chop]

I'm going to say this again -- just like I did in the last Tom Coughlin thread: If the Bengals played in the NFC, we'd have more playoff berths and Marvin would have a better record. To stand here five years later and look at the Giants and wish for Coughlin is to ignore the fact the Giants made the playoffs at 8-8 last year and that they played against much weaker competition on the road to the playoffs this year. They beat a weak Tampa Bay team, a Dallas team that came apart in the last month of the season, and a good Green Bay team whose aging quarterback finally ran out of wishes in a magical season.

I don't want to take anything away from the Giants' accomplishments this season, but they've had it a lot easier than we have over the past five seasons.

Pork Chop

[dadz]

The better question is why didn't we fire Chuck B. last offseason and hire Steve Spagnuolo?

What do you think Marvin has learned over the past 5 seasons?

[34inXXIII]

Hindsight is 20/20. ?

I believe Coughlin brought more to the table. I'm sure I'm not the only one that saw Coughlin's experience being a plus when it comes to coaching a team.
But.................
I 'd be lying if I told you I wasn't happy that Mike Brown hired Marvin since he was outside the organization.
That's exactly the same appraoch I had. My #1 preference back then was Coughlin, but I was pretty satisfied with Lewis when the decision was made back then. There's no telling if we would have the kind of success the Giants now considering how much tougher the AFC is, but Coughlin has definitely proven with the Jags and Giants the ability to win on the road as underdogs in the playoffs.

[dadz]

I'm going to say this again -- just like I did in the last Tom Coughlin thread: If the Bengals played in the NFC, we'd have more playoff berths and Marvin would have a better record. To stand here five years later and look at the Giants and wish for Coughlin is to ignore the fact the Giants made the playoffs at 8-8 last year and that they played against much weaker competition on the road to the playoffs this year. They beat a weak Tampa Bay team, a Dallas team that came apart in the last month of the season, and a good Green Bay team whose aging quarterback finally ran out of wishes in a magical season.

I don't want to take anything away from the Giants' accomplishments this season, but they've had it a lot easier than we have over the past five seasons.

Pork Chop

I'm sorry but was the Bengals schedule really that TOUGH this year?
OMG, I hate to say this,just wait till next season the Bengals are in trouble.

[Bengal Dude]

I'm going to say this again -- just like I did in the last Tom Coughlin thread: If the Bengals played in the NFC, we'd have more playoff berths and Marvin would have a better record. To stand here five years later and look at the Giants and wish for Coughlin is to ignore the fact the Giants made the playoffs at 8-8 last year and that they played against much weaker competition on the road to the playoffs this year. They beat a weak Tampa Bay team, a Dallas team that came apart in the last month of the season, and a good Green Bay team whose aging quarterback finally ran out of wishes in a magical season.

I don't want to take anything away from the Giants' accomplishments this season, but they've had it a lot easier than we have over the past five seasons.

Pork Chop

Agreed. The NFC always seems to have their Wild Card teams wond up at 8-8. I believe that it wasn't long ago, that they had a team with a losing record make into the playoffs at #6, but don't quote me on it. 7-9 can take you up to week 17 on whether you make it in or not. Look at the Browns this year, 10-6 and they missed the playoffs, there's no denying that the AFC has finally become the premiere of the two conferences. The Bengals would've had better records if we played in the NFC.

Plus, the Giants have looked like they were going to can Coughlin because it looked like their usual 2nd half season collapse, but they finally stopped the slide. Suddenly Coughlin looks like he won't be getting any pink slip.

[Pork Chop]

I'm sorry but was the Bengals schedule really that TOUGH this year?

No, it was easy this year. The Bengals blew it big time. I don't believe that nullifies my point about comparison of schedules, and, since one of the Bengals' issues is poise, one wonders how much better they'd be playing if they'd won some more games and had some playoffs success.

Pork Chop

[jamiethelanky]

Tom Coughlin, could of, would of, should of been the Bengals head coach!

Why did Mike Brown pick Marvin Lewis over Tom Coughlin ?
Because he was the best coach available at the time. The Giants have got to the Superbowl in spite of Coughlin, not because of him.

[dadz]

No, it was easy this year. The Bengals blew it big time. I don't believe that nullifies my point about comparison of schedules, and, since one of the Bengals' issues is poise, one wonders how much better they'd be playing if they'd won some more games and had some playoffs success.

Pork Chop

Poised? The Bengals did finish the 2007 season better than the last couple.
I don't mean to argue but its hard to see anything changing.
Bengal dude just posted - that Giants have looked like they were going to can Coughlin because it looked like their usual 2nd half season collapse.
Marvin said earlier in the season that he's not on the hot seat. How many times do the Bengals have to collapse before he gets a pinkslip?

[dadz]

Because he was the best coach available at the time. The Giants have got to the Superbowl in spite of Coughlin, not because of him.

Best coach? hahahahahahahaha
Your opinion but the Giants winning percentage says other wise.

[Bengal Dude]

Best coach? hahahahahahahaha
Your opinion but the Giants winning percentage says other wise.

Bengals & Giants regular season records since both coaches have been hired.

Bengals: 42-38
Giants: 39-41

I'm just giving you the regular season records. I'm not factoring in the postseason.

Now Postseason factors make it:

Bengals: 42-39
Giants: 42-43

[34inXXIII]

Because he was the best coach available at the time. The Giants have got to the Superbowl in spite of Coughlin, not because of him.
Best coach available? Even if you question Coughlin's results with the Giants because they're in the NFC, it's hard to make an argument for Lewis as being a better coach than Del Rio lookng back.

[XOrange&BlackX]

Bengals & Giants regular season records since both coaches have been hired.

Bengals: 42-38
Giants: 39-41

I'm just giving you the regular season records. I'm not factoring in the postseason.


Good observations but only thing that is different is that they made it to the Super Bowl

[Bengal Dude]

Good observations but only thing that is different is that they made it to the Super Bowl

That's true, but he said that the Giants have a winning record under Coughlin, even with the postseason records, they're still losing.

[jamiethelanky]

Best coach? hahahahahahahaha
Your opinion but the Giants winning percentage says other wise.
Fine then. Live in your world wqhere you think Coughlin got them there on his own. I'm far too sensible for you.

All this 'would of' (and it's 'have', by the way) nonsense is stupid. The only way Brown could have seen this was if he'd taken a time machine.

[J24]

Best coach available? Even if you question Coughlin's results with the Giants because they're in the NFC, it's hard to make an argument for Lewis as being a better coach than Del Rio lookng back.

Marvin lewis has also had to work with one of the worst front office's in all of sports that has caused more problems then his ability to coach. Secondly look at the thirteen years before marvin arrived and after he arrived and you would see drastic diferences.

[34inXXIII]

Marvin lewis has also had to work with one of the worst front office's in all of sports that has caused more problems then his ability to coach. Secondly look at the thirteen years before marvin arrived and after he arrived and you would see drastic diferences.
You're right. There are drastic diferences. The uniforms stand out much more now. Unfortunately, the results on the field are hardly significantly different. Now, I'm not saying Coughlin nor Del Rio wouldn't have been shackled by similar problems Lewis has faced, but I don't see any evidence that he's a better coach than either of them.

[David From Cincy]

What is crying going to do about it? What is done is done. We can play the what if game all day long; What if Palmer does not get hurt? What if Graham does not hit the field goal wide right? What if Kitna pulled a single win off in 2004 at the end of the season? Do you guys realize if those three things would have happened we would have been in the playoffs three straight seasons and who knows where we could have gone in 2005. Three small details from three seperate seasons are the difference in us looking great and us where we are.

[devils advocate]

Coughlin had some head coaching experience,maybe even playoff experience,but we made the correct decision.He had not made it to the Superbowl before last night.His head was called for since day one in N.Y.What was the odds that they make it?I bet it was not even money to say the least.I don't buy into saying things about hindsite and the like.We've got who is going to lead us to better days.N.Y. has a solid defense.That is the difference.

[fredtoast]

Speaking of hindsight here is the opinion of many Bengal fans if We had hired Coughlin:


"Mike brown is an idiot! Why hire a coach that got fired in ruining a good Jacksonville team? Instead of signing a fresh new talent like Marvin Lewis he just recycles another loser. Lewis has ran the best defnse in the league in Baltimore and the #5 defense in Washington. It has been three years since Cuoughlin had a winning record and he sure won't get one here. We will never go to a Super Bowl with Mike Brown in charge!"

[34inXXIII]

Coughlin had some head coaching experience,maybe even playoff experience,but we made the correct decision.He had not made it to the Superbowl before last night.His head was called for since day one in N.Y.
First of all, having ones job called for in NY is practically a foregone conclusions. He puts together an identical run in Cincinnati - even without the SB appearance - and we'd start naming streets after him.

Secondly, the whole "they've wanted him fired" perspective is skewed anyways. If you don't like Coughlin, you're going to argue that it is a sign that he's not really that good. I could also argue that it shows real perseverance to overcome that and a multitude of other issues and distractions to get to where he has helped that team be today.

[Jason]

Tom Coughlin, could of, would of, should of been the Bengals head coach!

Why did Mike Brown pick Marvin Lewis over Tom Coughlin ?
Are you serious? Coughlin is sorry. His own big mouth players routinely call him out in the media. Did you see the way he behaved after that 2nd missed FG. We have enough foot stamping, tantrum throwing children around here. If the coach is behaving that way as well.... Tom Coughlin, no thanks.

[DooDooMagoo]

I dont think coughlin would have mattered here.... If we had a dline like the giants we would make the playoffs every year and once you get into the playoffs all you need to do is get hot and not turn the ball over and you will win playoff games. I think the play of eli manning and the giants dline and secondary have more to do with them being in the superbowl than tom coughlin. Sure it seems like theyve all bought into the playing for the team philosophy he's preaching but thats easy to do and say when you are winning games. We bought into it here when we were winning. Give the bengals michael strahan, justin tuck and usi umenyora and we might have won a few more games and been sitting in the playoffs as well..

hindsight is definitley 20/20... we all loved marvin when he first got here and many of us thought it was the best thing we've done here in a long time but give marvin the talent some of these other teams in the league have on defense and we wouldnt be calling for marvins head but wondering why we dont have him locked up through 2020...

[34inXXIII]

Are you serious? Coughlin is sorry. His own big mouth players routinely call him out in the media. Did you see the way he behaved after that 2nd missed FG. We have enough foot stamping, tantrum throwing children around here. If the coach is behaving that way as well.... Tom Coughlin, no thanks.
So we have many people in here complaining that Lewis appears too dispassionate on the sidelines; now others who criticize Coughlin for the opposite. All I know is that he has gotten that team - including their big mouth players - to play well enough to win an unprecedented 10 road games and get to the Super Bowl. Years ago, this same coach took an expansion team in its second year to a stunning upset in Denver against the top-seeded Broncos just prior to Denver's back-to-back Super Bowls.

I'm not going so far as to say we should have hired Coughlin, but I'm not going to rationalize the Bengals' decision by downplaying the guy's results.

[DennyG2]

What is crying going to do about it? What is done is done. We can play the what if game all day long; What if Palmer does not get hurt? What if Graham does not hit the field goal wide right? What if Kitna pulled a single win off in 2004 at the end of the season? Do you guys realize if those three things would have happened we would have been in the playoffs three straight seasons and who knows where we could have gone in 2005. Three small details from three seperate seasons are the difference in us looking great and us where we are.
Excellent points, not to mention the fact that last year having 14 players on I.R., a makeshift offensive line half the season, no running game till late due to a blown out knee to Kenny and a hamstring to rudi. Show me where those above mentioned coaches had to deal with those kind of devastating issues? Not to mention a decimated linebacking corp.

[Ryan Mc]

I dont think coughlin would have mattered here.... If we had a dline like the giants we would make the playoffs every year and once you get into the playoffs all you need to do is get hot and not turn the ball over and you will win playoff games. I think the play of eli manning and the giants dline and secondary have more to do with them being in the superbowl than tom coughlin. Sure it seems like theyve all bought into the playing for the team philosophy he's preaching but thats easy to do and say when you are winning games. We bought into it here when we were winning. Give the bengals michael strahan, justin tuck and usi umenyora and we might have won a few more games and been sitting in the playoffs as well..

hindsight is definitley 20/20... we all loved marvin when he first got here and many of us thought it was the best thing we've done here in a long time but give marvin the talent some of these other teams in the league have on defense and we wouldnt be calling for marvins head but wondering why we dont have him locked up through 2020...

Amen brother. If you'd swapped our D-line roster with the Giants' before the season began we'd probably have ended up with each other's season records too. Not that Lewis couldn't change some things to improve as a coach, but I agree with you that this is the far more striking difference between the teams than the coaching.

[zanetdaniels]

The ONLY thing Tom Coughlin and the New York Giants proved is how truly pathetic the NFC is. ****, if the Bengals were in the NFC they too would be Super Bowl contenders every year.

[have faith]

Tom Coughlin, could of, would of, should of been the Bengals head coach!

Why did Mike Brown pick Marvin Lewis over Tom Coughlin ?
Remember that Coughlin has had his deal of problems as well, he practically ran Tiki Barber out of football.

[cincyfan88]

The Giant fans were screaming for Coughlin to be fired for the last two years. Marvin is a better coach. Coughlin cant handle the Giants attitudes how in the world would he handle cincy? Yea they have made a nice run here at the end of the year to go play for the title but he has a lot more talent on defensive and some huge free agent signings that cincy hasnt had. He also took over a team that had been to the super bowl recently. Marvin took over possibly the worst team in NFL history before he got here.

[Jason]

So we have many people in here complaining that Lewis appears too dispassionate on the sidelines; now others who criticize Coughlin for the opposite. All I know is that he has gotten that team - including their big mouth players - to play well enough to win an unprecedented 10 road games and get to the Super Bowl. Years ago, this same coach took an expansion team in its second year to a stunning upset in Denver against the top-seeded Broncos just prior to Denver's back-to-back Super Bowls.

I'm not going so far as to say we should have hired Coughlin, but I'm not going to rationalize the Bengals' decision by downplaying the guy's results.
You'll never catch me complaining about Marvin's demeanor. Like I said, somebody on this team needs to be poised and steady. A lot of our players aren't

[Jason]

Cincinnati coulda, shoulda, woulda drafted Tom Brady and Randy Moss for that matter! But hey, Akili and Warrick or who ever they took early those yrs. turned out alright.

[chaffin94]

I never wanted Coughlin. I would still take Marvin over him

[J24]

You're right. There are drastic diferences. The uniforms stand out much more now. Unfortunately, the results on the field are hardly significantly different. Now, I'm not saying Coughlin nor Del Rio wouldn't have been shackled by similar problems Lewis has faced, but I don't see any evidence that he's a better coach than either of them.

there arent drastic changes on the field when Marvin arrived really lets see in 5 seasons Marvin Lewis has had 3 8-8 seasons, 1 division title and only one losing season (7-9) with the worst front office in the NFL and a team that had what 12 losing season 3 #1 overall picks, and 1 8-8 season and no playoff apperances those arent drastic changes really.Now I am not saying I am thrilled to be average for the past 5 seasons but it is alot better than in previous seasons and bill bellicheck could not do much better than lewis has done with this team with the front office we have in cincy.

[true fan]

you know what we all was screaming for lewis and now because we are not doing the best we want to get rid of marvin.Tom Coughlin has a great defense and has not had the injuries to key people we have had this year.This Tom Coughlin was going to be fired this year if he did not make the playoffs or lost in the first round

[Skeeter McGee]

Fine then. Live in your world wqhere you think Coughlin got them there on his own. I'm far too sensible for you.


Jamie, has there ever been a time in your life when you've actually been wrong about something? <_< Why do you always have to insult someone whenever they disagree with you, even when you're obviously wrong? Talent wise the Giants aren't that good of a team, so they must have a pretty decent coaching staff or else they wouldn't be in the Super Bowl, but you go ahead and live in your world where you think that the Giants got to the Super Bowl without good coaching, because i'm far too sensible for you. B)

[devils advocate]

"Talent wise the Giants aren't that good of a team, so they must have a pretty decent coaching staff or else they wouldn't be in the Super Bowl,"

I don't know about how talented they are on Offense,It is debatable.But those two defensive ends and the rest of that defense for that matter, are talented.They were the 7th ranked defense,8th against the run,11th against the pass and led the league in sacks.They were also the number 4 ranked team in rushing.They were a perinial playoff team and Superbowl contender withoutTom Coughlin.

[true fan]

devils advocate

they have 3 great de's tuck had 10.5 sacks this year and he was there 3rd de

[VA Bengal Fan]

Tom Coughlin, could of, would of, should of been the Bengals head coach!

Why did Mike Brown pick Marvin Lewis over Tom Coughlin ?

Actually, when his kicker missed a field goal in very bad conditions yesterday, everyone could see Coughlin screaming at him on the sidelines. Sure enough, he missed the next one. Not very smart IMO to get your kicker all upset when you're probably going to need him to win the game. Lucky for him, the kicker was able to get himself together and make the third try and win the game in spite of Coughlin. I wasn't impressed.

[ShovelheadT]

He obviously did it in order to sabatoge the entire bengals organization.


Hindsight is 20/20.


Get over it.

lmao!

[ShovelheadT]

First of all, having ones job called for in NY is practically a foregone conclusions. He puts together an identical run in Cincinnati - even without the SB appearance - and we'd start naming streets after him.

Secondly, the whole "they've wanted him fired" perspective is skewed anyways. If you don't like Coughlin, you're going to argue that it is a sign that he's not really that good. I could also argue that it shows real perseverance to overcome that and a multitude of other issues and distractions to get to where he has helped that team be today.

Well said.

I also find it more than ironic that things got better when Tiki left and Shockey went down.

[34inXXIII]

there arent drastic changes on the field when Marvin arrived really lets see in 5 seasons Marvin Lewis has had 3 8-8 seasons, 1 division title and only one losing season (7-9) with the worst front office in the NFL and a team that had what 12 losing season 3 #1 overall picks, and 1 8-8 season and no playoff apperances those arent drastic changes really.Now I am not saying I am thrilled to be average for the past 5 seasons but it is alot better than in previous seasons and bill bellicheck could not do much better than lewis has done with this team with the front office we have in cincy.
5 years, 1 playoff game. That's what matters, so I don't see a drastic improvement. The potential is there, no doubt, but the results are not, so I can hardly classify Lewis as being a better coach than Coughlin or Del Rio based upon what he might have done with a better front office or in the other conference. Besides, what are the chances that "the worst front office in the NFL" would have actually hired the best head coach? Maybe time will prove otherwise, but it hasn't yet.

[Skeeter McGee]

"Talent wise the Giants aren't that good of a team, so they must have a pretty decent coaching staff or else they wouldn't be in the Super Bowl,"

I don't know about how talented they are on Offense,It is debatable.But those two defensive ends and the rest of that defense for that matter, are talented.They were the 7th ranked defense,8th against the run,11th against the pass and led the league in sacks.They were also the number 4 ranked team in rushing.They were a perinial playoff team and Superbowl contender withoutTom Coughlin.

What i'm saying is, their team is not that great compared to the other NFC teams that were in the playoffs this year.

[Skeeter McGee]

you know what we all was screaming for lewis and now because we are not doing the best we want to get rid of marvin.Tom Coughlin has a great defense and has not had the injuries to key people we have had this year.

Did you happen to see how the Chargers did against the Colts with their best players out with injuries? Good coaching and good depth can overcome injuries, and the Bengals have neither. B)

[RandyRoy]

If the Steelers wouldn't have cheated, Lewis would have won it before Coughlin.

[javaman22]

Excellent points, not to mention the fact that last year having 14 players on I.R., a makeshift offensive line half the season, no running game till late due to a blown out knee to Kenny and a hamstring to rudi. Show me where those above mentioned coaches had to deal with those kind of devastating issues? Not to mention a decimated linebacking corp.

IMO, this is the main reason for our record. As the season progressed we had more success because players settled in after getting a few games under their belts.We just need continuity and more depth when we have to reach into the 2nd string for help. Sure the coaching was not top notch but I don't think it was a fair evaluation when we didn't have a full compliment of players (starters) to line up each week.

[Ryan Mc]

Well said.

I also find it more than ironic that things got better when Tiki left and Shockey went down.

Bit of a tangent, but I've been thinking about this too. It sure does seem like Manning, who by all appearances is not a particularly strong personality, is playing much better without the two most outspoken, give-me-the-ball guys in the huddle. Coincidence?

[bengal_prideforlife]

Tom Coughlin, could of, would of, should of been the Bengals head coach!

Why did Mike Brown pick Marvin Lewis over Tom Coughlin ?
Quit your whining Coughlin coaches in a large market and has a freeway to big name free agents....Lewis turned around the worst NFL franchise in history when MANY other people tried and failed....get over it!!!

[34inXXIII]

Quit your whining Coughlin coaches in a large market and has a freeway to big name free agents....Lewis turned around the worst NFL franchise in history when MANY other people tried and failed....get over it!!!
And just what big name free agents have the Giants signed?

[tbone77]

Coughlin is annoying. If the Giants win the superbowl, it has more to do with the personnel than the coaching.

[34inXXIII]

Coughlin is annoying. If the Giants win the superbowl, it has more to do with the personnel than the coaching.
Yeah, winning is so annoying. :rolleyes:

[DennyG2]

Coughlin is annoying. If the Giants win the superbowl, it has more to do with the personnel than the coaching.isn't that usually the case?:huh:

[tbone77]

Yeah, winning is so annoying. :rolleyes:

Winning is great, but Coughlin is annoying. Ask some of his players. Ask the kicker who he rattled last night (gee thanks for rubbing it in coach). If the Giants win the superbowl, it will be despite Coughlin, not because of him. I thought they could have won it last year, but it didn't happen. This year they have too many great players to not do very well.

:tiger:

[34inXXIII]

Winning is great, but Coughlin is annoying. Ask some of his players. Ask the kicker who he rattled last night (gee thanks for rubbing it in coach). If the Giants win the superbowl, it will be despite Coughlin, not because of him. I thought they could have won it last year, but it didn't happen. This year they have too many great players to not do very well.

:tiger:
OMG, a head coach of a professional football team actually dared to yell at one of his players?!? Someone call the union so they can file a complaint about an unreasonable work environment! :rolleyes:

He may be annoying. He may very well be excessively demanding and sometimes unreasonable, but that does not prohibit him from being a good head coach. His result speak for themselves. It's ridiculous how some people want to belittle a guy who actually has some accomplishments while propping up a guy who has very few.

[David From Cincy]

Yeah, winning is so annoying. :rolleyes:

Giants:

2004 6-10
2005 11-5
2006 8-8
2007 10-6

35-29

Bengals:

2004 8-8
2005 11-5
2006 8-8
2007 7-9

34-30

I mean... just saying ;)

[rkellydugan20]

I dont think Coughlin's hard nosed approach to dealing with his players would have been a bad thing necesarily. But looking forward I like Zimmer and hope he can bring that intensity to our team.

Marvin reminds me of Tubby Smith and Coughlin reminds me of Bellechick.

BUt I dont necesarily dislike Marvin or Tubby. And I definitely dont like Bill Bellichick (but I would do ne thing to have Bellichick as the Bengals coach)

[34inXXIII]

Giants:

2004 6-10
2005 11-5
2006 8-8
2007 10-6

35-29

Bengals:

2004 8-8
2005 11-5
2006 8-8
2007 7-9

34-30

I mean... just saying ;)
103 wins, 89 losses.

4 division titles, 7 playoff appearances in 12 seasons.

7 playoff wins, 5 on the road, 2 against #1 seeds.

1 conference championship.

You were saying? B)

[David From Cincy]

103 wins, 89 losses.

4 division titles, 7 playoff appearances in 12 seasons.

7 playoff wins, 5 on the road, 2 against #1 seeds.

1 conference championship.

You were saying? B)


I am going to stick with CURRENT TEAMS. Which is why I left out 2003. I could have given Marvin 8 more wins to make him look "more successful".

I do not think it is fair to bring up stats from other teams since that holds no value in this debate of who has done better and who we should have hired.

His stats do not blow me away though.

Regular Season103-89-0

Postseason7-6

Career Record110-95-0

2007 NFC Championship

[34inXXIII]

I am going to stick with CURRENT TEAMS. Which is why I left out 2003. I could have given Marvin 8 more wins to make him look "more successful".

I do not think it is fair to bring up stats from other teams since that holds no value in this debate of who has done better and who we should have hired.

His stats do not blow me away though.

Regular Season103-89-0Postseason7-6Career Record110-95-02007 NFC Championship
I think it's absolutely fair. We've got people basically belittling the guy's accomplishments because they simply don't like him, because he's annoying and was mean to his kicker, but bringing up his time before he joined the Giants is unfair?

The thread was about the hiring of Lewis 5 years ago instead of Coughlin. In that regard, his time with the Jaguars is most definitely applicable. What he's done with the Giants only reinforces what a worthy candidate he was.

[David From Cincy]

I think it's absolutely fair. We've got people basically belittling the guy's accomplishments because they simply don't like him, because he's annoying and was mean to his kicker, but bringing up his time before he joined the Giants is unfair?

The thread was about the hiring of Lewis 5 years ago instead of Coughlin. In that regard, his time with the Jaguars is most definitely applicable. What he's done with the Giants only reinforces what a worthy candidate he was.


But the people here are not really discussing "qualifications". If we are going to argue who was more qualified it was Tom hands down, there is no comparison. Now people are using hindsight to try to say "look what he is doing with the Giants, I told you we should have hired him". So in debating that argument I do not feel his Jaguars days are needed.

Who here can HONESTLY say Marvin who had never been a head coach was more qualified than Tom? They may have thought Marvin was better for the job, or for a rebuilding process but not more qualified.

That is like saying a freshly graduated med student is more qualified to be a head of a transplant department than a Doctor who has been performing transplants for thirty years. That new grad may have better leadership qualities or management skills, but he is in no way more qualified for the possition.

[yellowxdiscipline]

I like Coughlins coaching style better than Lewis'. He is in your face and lets you know when you screwed up. It seems like Marvin lets some of these guys get away with murder.

[34inXXIII]

But the people here are not really discussing "qualifications". If we are going to argue who was more qualified it was Tom hands down, there is no comparison. Now people are using hindsight to try to say "look what he is doing with the Giants, I told you we should have hired him". So in debating that argument I do not feel his Jaguars days are needed.

Who here can HONESTLY say Marvin who had never been a head coach was more qualified than Tom? They may have thought Marvin was better for the job, or for a rebuilding process but not more qualified.

That is like saying a freshly graduated med student is more qualified to be a head of a transplant department than a Doctor who has been performing transplants for thirty years. That new grad may have better leadership qualities or management skills, but he is in no way more qualified for the possition.
The problem is that we have people in this thread saying Marvin Lewis was the best coach available at the time, despite having no qualifications as a head coach. There was no information available back then to support that and there's none now.

[David From Cincy]

The problem is that we have people in this thread saying Marvin Lewis was the best coach available at the time, despite having no qualifications as a head coach. There was no information available back then to support that and there's none now.

And if they believe that, do you really think you will be able to ever convince them otherwise? The answer is; no. Believe me, no matter what you say you will end up right back where you started.

In comparison, it is like arguing with people who say Justin Smith is constantly double teamed. Well, you can go back and watch highlights or taped games and see that he is NOT, but no one care, they believe what they need to believe.

[34inXXIII]

And if they believe that, do you really think you will be able to ever convince them otherwise? The answer is; no. Believe me, no matter what you say you will end up right back where you started.

In comparison, it is like arguing with people who say Justin Smith is constantly double teamed. Well, you can go back and watch highlights or taped games and see that he is NOT, but no one care, they believe what they need to believe.
If I had decided not to submit a post just because I was unlikely to change anyone's opinion, my post count would be approximately 84. I'm just getting my opinion out there like everyone else.

[leftyofohio]

It seems to me that Tom Coughlin, until now, has done less with more tools than Marvin.
The Giants are a top tier NFL organization and the Bengals, well...
How about the defense, for instance? A luxury Marvin hasn't had. I'm not saying Coughlin has nothing to do with that. My point is this--Marvin opened the cupboard doors and there wasn't much there, which leads to some desperation when it comes to personnel decisions and we all know the mistakes that have been made as a result.

If I remember right, the Giants were practically at the point of mutiny last year or the year before. And he's been on a hotseat since season two. In his case, the owner was patient enough to stick with him. Sometimes, the hotseat brings out the best in people.

It seems obvious, at least in our minds, that Marvin is on the hotseat, with as much heat coming from within as from outside. In a year from now, we'll be breaking down the results.

[David From Cincy]

If I had decided not to submit a post just because I was unlikely to change anyone's opinion, my post count would be approximately 84. I'm just getting my opinion out there like everyone else.


Well, do not come to me with complaining about your concussion after beating your head up again the wall in here;).

Honestly, please do not hurt yourself.

[David From Cincy]

It seems to me that Tom Coughlin, until now, has done less with more tools than Marvin.

That could be said, but you can also say he had one of the most overhyped and inconsistant quarterbacks in the league as well. Which possition in football is most important when it comes to winning? So in reality it is hard to blame him for some of Eli's mistakes.

The Giants are a top tier NFL organization and the Bengals, well...

Spend just as much on the team as the Giants... which brings into question both personnel moves and coaching.

How about the defense, for instance? A luxury Marvin hasn't had. I'm not saying Coughlin has nothing to do with that. My point is this--Marvin opened the cupboard doors and there wasn't much there, which leads to some desperation when it comes to personnel decisions and we all know the mistakes that have been made as a result.

It may lead to desperation in year one... but what is the excuse three and four years down the road? Injuries stink, but you cannot blame it all on that.


If I remember right, the Giants were practically at the point of mutiny last year or the year before. And he's been on a hotseat since season two. In his case, the owner was patient enough to stick with him. Sometimes, the hotseat brings out the best in people.

You are correct, in fact it was so bad that management told Tom to "be nicer" to the team and media. They felt that Tom was being too hard on them and too rude to the media.


It seems obvious, at least in our minds, that Marvin is on the hotseat, with as much heat coming from within as from outside. In a year from now, we'll be breaking down the results

I cannot stress to you enough how cold Marvin's seat really is. There is NO heat on it what so ever. I just thought I would clear that one up. NONE!

[busamboy]

Tom Coughlin, could of, would of, should of been the Bengals head coach!

Why did Mike Brown pick Marvin Lewis over Tom Coughlin ?

He was about to be fired before this season started too. If our players played with half the heart the giants (oh wait, they did) have been playing with, we would have been in the playoffs. The difference in these two coaches is the players. Coughlin learned more about his players before this season and their team is glad that they didn't get rid of him. They are embarrassed because they were thinking about the future and whether Manning was even going to be in it.

[Joe from Florence]

Tom Coughlin, could of, would of, should of been the Bengals head coach!

Why did Mike Brown pick Marvin Lewis over Tom Coughlin ?
Do you realize that Coughlin is a coach in the NFC which is a cake walk compared to the AFC and he still has more losses than Marvin over the same time period?

[Joe from Florence]

Best coach available? Even if you question Coughlin's results with the Giants because they're in the NFC, it's hard to make an argument for Lewis as being a better coach than Del Rio lookng back.Del Rio was on the hot seat big time going into this season....I also wouldn't say he is a better coach than Marvin either.

Something people seem to forget....Both Jacksonville and New York had a better talent and a better team when the coaches got there than the 2-14 bengals

This was Del Rio's first playoff appearance since he became HC 5 years ago.

[Skeeter McGee]

If the Steelers wouldn't have cheated, Lewis would have won it before Coughlin.

That's a completely STUPID statement. :wacko: The Steelers didn't cheat, Palmer got hurt and it was an ACCIDENT!!! Some of you people need to stop your whinning because you can CLEARLY see that Kimo wasn't trying to hurt Palmer. And even if we had been lucky enough to beat Pittsburg, we wouldn't have went any further because our defense S*CKED!!!

[devils advocate]

Until last season['06] Marvin was the savior of Cincy.Remember "In Marvin we trust"?We have had some solid darft picks and some that haven't worked out.I say this because the loss of Odell has really hurt this team,IMO and him not playing for two years has got be more than just coincidence.It is not a fair comparison between Coughlin,Lewis and even Del Rio.They each coach teams with different talent at different spots.Marvin has turned the corner with this team and winning is right in front of us.He's had a two year slide,but there are many contributing factors with plenty of blame to go around,not just Marvin and the coaches.

[Skeeter McGee]

I cannot stress to you enough how cold Marvin's seat really is. There is NO heat on it what so ever. I just thought I would clear that one up. NONE!

Is there ANYTHING that you don't know? :what: If Marvin isn't on the hot seat then i wouldn't be a bit surprised because only the moron owner of this team would not put his HC on the the hot seat after having only ONE winning season in the last 5 years. <_<

[devils advocate]

Is there ANYTHING that you don't know? :what: If Marvin isn't on the hot seat then i wouldn't be a bit surprised because only the moron owner of this team would not put his HC on the the hot seat after having only ONE winning season in the last 5 years. <_<

You've got to consider the losing that took place here for so long.One winning season isn't good,but we've also only had one losing season on the flip side, with a playoff appearance in the mix.I am not defending mediocrity,but we are really close.After this saeson['08] we'll see where we're at.Maybe Marvin will be on the hot seat then.Mike Brown has even said Marvin wasn't in any trouble.That could very well change after '08,but for now it appears he is OK.

[34inXXIII]

Del Rio was on the hot seat big time going into this season....I also wouldn't say he is a better coach than Marvin either.

Something people seem to forget....Both Jacksonville and New York had a better talent and a better team when the coaches got there than the 2-14 bengals

This was Del Rio's first playoff appearance since he became HC 5 years ago.
It's Del Rio's second playoff appearance. So, if people are going to discredit Coughlin's sucess because his team is in the inferior NFC, doesn't it stand to reason that Del Rio should be lauded for his results not only in the AFC, but is the same division as the Colts?

[jamiethelanky]

Is there ANYTHING that you don't know? :what: If Marvin isn't on the hot seat then i wouldn't be a bit surprised because only the moron owner of this team would not put his HC on the the hot seat after having only ONE winning season in the last 5 years. <_<
Maybe it's because we've only had one losing season, and in each of the 8-8s we were a couple of breaks from the playoffs.

Give him another chance, and see what happens in the coming year.

[34inXXIII]

You've got to consider the losing that took place here for so long.One winning season isn't good,but we've also only had one losing season on the flip side, with a playoff appearance in the mix.I am not defending mediocrity,but we are really close.After this saeson['08] we'll see where we're at.Maybe Marvin will be on the hot seat then.Mike Brown has even said Marvin wasn't in any trouble.That could very well change after '08,but for now it appears he is OK.
I don't think we do have to consider that any more. Once the team won the division in 2005 and made the playoffs, the bar was raised and mediocrity was no longer acceptable.

Yes, we may very well be close, but good coaches are not defined by getting teams close to being in the playoffs every year....even the Bengals.

[David From Cincy]

Is there ANYTHING that you don't know? :what: If Marvin isn't on the hot seat then i wouldn't be a bit surprised because only the moron owner of this team would not put his HC on the the hot seat after having only ONE winning season in the last 5 years. <_<


Wow, do you have these replies saved? I assume you have them in Word and just insert a new name:

http://boards.bengals.com/showpost.php?p=231386&postcount=42

Also, If you do not want to hear the truth just stick your fingers in your ears or your eyes (if you happen to be reading). If I do not have a good reason to say something or if I do not know something I do not come in and make something up.

[Ryan Mc]

It's Del Rio's second playoff appearance. So, if people are going to discredit Coughlin's sucess because his team is in the inferior NFC, doesn't it stand to reason that Del Rio should be lauded for his results not only in the AFC, but is the same division as the Colts?

That's fair. Del Rio's main problem has been being in the same division as Indy. His first season wasn't great (5-11), as they transitioned from Brunell to Leftwich, but since then they've gone 9-7, 12-4, 8-8, 11-5 and made the playoffs twice.

The difference between Del Rio and Lewis is Del Rio seems to remember what made the Ravens successful. His Jags are built very much like that 2000 Ravens team that he and Lewis were both coaches on: strong running game, strong defense led by two big DTs in the middle of the line. Marvin went away from this formula with small defensive linemen and a pass-heavy offense.

[chaffin94]

103 wins, 89 losses.

4 division titles, 7 playoff appearances in 12 seasons.

7 playoff wins, 5 on the road, 2 against #1 seeds.

1 conference championship.

You were saying? B)



In the NFC.

You were saying?

[Joe from Florence]

the bottomline and only question one needs to ask himself is this......

could Coughlin done any better the past 5 years here as the bengals coach with the franchise run the exact same way?

[34inXXIII]

In the NFC.

You were saying?
You might want to do a little research before jumping into a conversation like that. <_<

[34inXXIII]

the bottomline and only question one needs to ask himself is this......

could Coughlin done any better the past 5 years here as the bengals coach with the franchise run the exact same way?
And just who's to say for sure that he couldn't have? All I see here is excuses on behalf of Lewis and conjecture in regards to Coughlin. The fact remains that Coughlin has had more success than Lewis both during his time in New York and previously with Jacksonville. Maybe Lewis is being held back by the franchise he works for and the front office he works with, but that doesn't imply that he is the better head coach. At best, it means that he hasn't had the chance to prove he could be.

[Joe from Florence]

And just who's to say for sure that he couldn't have? All I see here is excuses on behalf of Lewis and conjecture in regards to Coughlin. The fact remains that Coughlin has had more success than Lewis both during his time in New York and previously with Jacksonville. Maybe Lewis is being held back by the franchise he works for and the front office he works with, but that doesn't imply that he is the better head coach. At best, it means that he hasn't had the chance to prove he could be.I'm with you, i don't know the answer....but i do think at times it's like comparing apples and oranges when your talking about 2 different guys in 2 totally different situations and 2 different sets of personel

Coughlin could of been the best thing since sliced bread, but then again he could of been another Bruce Coslet here...who knows

The reason i liked Marvin at the time was because it was a new position for him and fresh ideas may of been what we needed at the time, i did love coughlin's stearness though and that is what this team needs now...someone to stick a foot up some players butts and get them in line.

I'm not saying either would be better or worse than the other because we simply don't know.

Bill Parcells didn't do much in Dallas, does that mean he wasn't a good coach? If Marvin were the coach of the pats this year, would he be succesful?

it's apples and oranges in my book.

[bengal_prideforlife]

Giants:

2004 6-10
2005 11-5
2006 8-8
2007 10-6

35-29

Bengals:

2004 8-8
2005 11-5
2006 8-8
2007 7-9

34-30

I mean... just saying ;)LOL now THIS is funny!!!

[J24]

And just what big name free agents have the Giants signed?

Peirce and Puress are the only two I can think of.

[jamiethelanky]

Peirce and Puress are the only two I can think of.
Gibril Wilson.

[J24]

5 years, 1 playoff game. That's what matters, so I don't see a drastic improvement. The potential is there, no doubt, but the results are not, so I can hardly classify Lewis as being a better coach than Coughlin or Del Rio based upon what he might have done with a better front office or in the other conference. Besides, what are the chances that "the worst front office in the NFL" would have actually hired the best head coach? Maybe time will prove otherwise, but it hasn't yet.

Bill Belicheck was also considerd a bust in cleveland, how did he work out? Plus you cant deny the fact that Marvin has done the best out of any head coach in cincy since Sam Wyhce left in 1991. The Problem is not the caoching it is with the Ownership anycoach that comes here with this current front office assembeld would not be successful in the longterm.

[34inXXIII]

LOL now THIS is funny!!!
Yeah, ha ha....the Giants are in the Super Bowl and the Bengals are not. That's hilarious. :rolleyes:
Peirce and Puress are the only two I can think of.
Gibril Wilson.
Pierce maybe, but Burress was a cast off when he was a free agent coming off two mediocre seasons in Pittsburgh. Wilson has spent his entire 4 year career with the Giants.
Bill Belicheck was also considerd a bust in cleveland, how did he work out? Plus you cant deny the fact that Marvin has done the best out of any head coach in cincy since Sam Wyhce left in 1991. The Problem is not the caoching it is with the Ownership anycoach that comes here with this current front office assembeld would not be successful in the longterm.
OK, was anyone in this thread commending Belicheck for how great a head coach he was while in Cleveland? Were any of you calling for him to replace Bruce Coslet before he joined the Patriots? No, because he hadn't yet proven how good of a coach he truly was, which is my point with Marvin. Maybe he will do so in time, but he hasn't yet.

[jamiethelanky]

Wilson has spent his entire 4 year career with the Giants.

Never knew that. Could've sworn he came from elsewhere...

[devils advocate]

I don't think we do have to consider that any more. Once the team won the division in 2005 and made the playoffs, the bar was raised and mediocrity was no longer acceptable.

Yes, we may very well be close, but good coaches are not defined by getting teams close to being in the playoffs every year....even the Bengals.

It should be considered simply because it points to how things have turned.Should Marvin keep his job because he's done better than the previous three or four head coaches?I think it buys him one more year.I will not be satisfied without making the playoffs for another year.But Marvin deserves something for bringing us from the bottom.Sure we're only half way up,but that is better than where we were.Saying that injuries/suspensions weren't the problem this year is not true.I say this because of the 7-9 record.Had we not been hit with so many injuries/suspensions,who knows where we'd have finished.Optimistically,we could've made the playoffs.In other words,I think '07 was not indicative of this team.If the question is shoulda,woulda,coulda with other coaches,then the same goes for injuries/suspensions.Like I said before,mediocrity is unnacceptable.I am not happy with where we finished this year.If we are this bad next year there will be no excuse to keep any of the current coaches.Lets see what Zimmer brings to the table.He has the credentials and the "umph" that we are missing.Marvin has this team buying into what he believes.A couple of players don't get hurt,who knows?

[34inXXIII]

It should be considered simply because it points to how things have turned.Should Marvin keep his job because he's done better than the previous three or four head coaches?I think it buys him one more year.I will not be satisfied without making the playoffs for another year.But Marvin deserves something for bringing us from the bottom.Sure we're only half way up,but that is better than where we were.Saying that injuries/suspensions weren't the problem this year is not true.I say this because of the 7-9 record.Had we not been hit with so many injuries/suspensions,who knows where we'd have finished.Optimistically,we could've made the playoffs.In other words,I think '07 was not indicative of this team.If the question is shoulda,woulda,coulda with other coaches,then the same goes for injuries/suspensions.Like I said before,mediocrity is unnacceptable.I am not happy with where we finished this year.If we are this bad next year there will be no excuse to keep any of the current coaches.Lets see what Zimmer brings to the table.He has the credentials and the "umph" that we are missing.Marvin has this team buying into what he believes.A couple of players don't get hurt,who knows?
I think this is a good time to add that I really do like Marvin Lewis and I was very happy with his hiring 5 years ago. I want to see him succeed here and I have no problem with giving him that opportunity again next season. My contention here is simply that he has not yet proven to be as good as many in here want to believe, nor as good as other head coaches who were hired that season have proven to be.

[devils advocate]

I think this is a good time to add that I really do like Marvin Lewis and I was very happy with his hiring 5 years ago. I want to see him succeed here and I have no problem with giving him that opportunity again next season. My contention here is simply that he has not yet proven to be as good as many in here want to believe, nor as good as other head coaches who were hired that season have proven to be.

I agree.All things considered,Marvin was as good a choice as any.Nobody knows who will be a success and who will not.Give him one more year to prove that he is the right guy.Depending on what happens,maybe this is his last,or we will have him for years to come.Only if next year is a successful one.

[34inXXIII]

So now Coughlin's team has only rolled past the weak NFC , but now the only 18-0 team in NFL history. This isn't about what might have been in regards to the Bengals. We can't exactly equate our management to that of the Giants. However, in light of some of the comments in here, I think Coughlin deserves more credit than he's received here. Congrats to him and the Giants.

[deviant]

So now Coughlin's team has only rolled past the weak NFC , but now the only 18-0 team in NFL history. This isn't about what might have been in regards to the Bengals. We can't exactly equate our management to that of the Giants. However, in light of some of the comments in here, I think Coughlin deserves more credit than he's received here. Congrats to him and the Giants.
I will give credit to Tom Coughlin... but to pull hindsight out 5 years after the fact...:scared2:

I think guys are grasping at straws to look for a reason to hate MArvin, Mike Brown, etc.

Lest we forget Coughlin almost didn't make it back this season... he had to fight for his job after last year... I have to also think that perhaps if Eli hadn't become a complete different person we wouldn't be having this conversation now. I doubt very seriously after 3 years of the same old Eli, that Coughlin had anything to do with him becoming possessed.;)

Anyway... in hindsight we shouldn't have drafted Kijana, Klingler, Akili, etc, etc, etc, etc.

It's easy to play the part of enlightened prophet after all the results are in:thumbsup:

[true fan]

Boy did i see this comming up <_<.....shut up we have invested on the wrong side of the ball there is no guarantee Tom Coughlin would have had the success that marvin has had with us ...beside we have invested all are money on the offensive side of the ball if you notice the one thing we lack that has been hendering us for years is a defensive line that can rush the passer and a line that can stop the run for years we have sign bandade guys in free agency instead of a stud we have drafted line backers and lineman we turn into linebackers when is the last time we drafted a defensive lineman in the first 2 rounds ....since justin smith right :angry:

[DennyG2]

What is crying going to do about it? What is done is done. We can play the what if game all day long; What if Palmer does not get hurt? What if Graham does not hit the field goal wide right? What if Kitna pulled a single win off in 2004 at the end of the season? Do you guys realize if those three things would have happened we would have been in the playoffs three straight seasons and who knows where we could have gone in 2005. Three small details from three seperate seasons are the difference in us looking great and us where we are.THANK YOU!!! It is always easy to look back and say how we all wanted things different and wanted different coaches. I remember how excited bengal nation was at the signing of Marvin, now we are all Coughlan fans, I am not afraid to say I was one who was tickled to get Marvin and still think he will turn it around in 08'. We will see how the attitude changes when things get better in 08'.

[tbone77]

Tom Coughlin, could of, would of, should of been the Bengals head coach!

Why did Mike Brown pick Marvin Lewis over Tom Coughlin ?

I still think the Giants are the most talented collection of players on offense, defense, and special teams....The coaching is ok (with the exception of their DC who is very tough)...The front office, scouts and director of personnel deserve a lot of credit in NY...Their team is pretty stacked.

:tiger:

[Bengalized]

It's not the coach, it's the owner. There is a reason that the Bengals have ****** for 20 years, and it is Mike Brown. Tom Coughlin wouldn't have been successful here. No coach will be successful here until Mike Brown buys the farm. The, hopefully, we can become a real football team again.

[browns town bengal]

Super bowl win or not, i still wouldnt want tom coughlin as coach of the bengals.

[Stewy]

I think guys are grasping at straws to look for a reason to hate MArvin, Mike Brown, etc.

Yeah that pretty much sums up this whole thread.

The best coaches are given time to make a winner and develop a system. I like many lived through the dark years in the 90's. Marvin is and will continue to be a breath of fresh air, and I believe he will lead the Bengals to the promised land if and only if he turns them into a TEAM, which currently the Bengals are not.

[true fan]

i agree with you stewy but we beeter get are line together

[Liger]

Does anyone remember back when we were at the crossroads as to who the Bengals next coach should be? Coughlin seemed to be the frontrunner and the story I heard was that Katie Blackburn begged Mike Brown to take Lewis instead.

At the time I was happy, but now that Coughlin has a ring from last year with the Giants and Marvin keeps floundering I'm second guessing.

I know this is a what if, but do you think we should have taken Coughlin? We almost certainly wouldn't have had the character issues we've had, but the real question is would the Bengals have won a Super Bowl?

Thoughts?

[The Bengal Thing]

This has been (or was after the Super Bowl at least) a hot button topic around here.

At the start of last year the Giants were playing TERRIBLE and they were calling for Coughlin's head. Sure he turned it around and all, but hopefully Marv will be able to as well.

Sure if you say that if we would have taken Coughlin then the same thing would have happened and we would have won a Super Bowl then of course I say we should have taken him. In the real world....... I think we made the right decision.

[thefo0]

I'm with the Bengal Thing on this one. I don't think that they made a poor decision in bringing Lewis here. Just because Coughlin got some jewelry in New York doesn't mean he would have gotten it here or that Lewis never will. I think that Lewis did a decent job of changing the mindset of the team and fans to think that winning is at least possible.

I personally think that it is a good sign that we are angry about being middle of the pack. Only a few years ago, there probably wouldn't have been as much rage. I'm still not happy with where we are, but at least the apathy in regards to the team's performance is gone. It is kind of nice expecting something out of the Bengals instead of resigning myself to being a fan of a laughingstock. Because of that I am grateful to Lewis. I just hope he can bring us to the next step. If not, we need a coach to come in and build off of the foundation built by Lewis.

One thing that Coughlin seems to have that Lewis may be lacking in is dealing with huge egos. Granted he was helped by Shockey's injury in his attempt to make a better team dynamic, but he was able to get Strahan to play as part of the team after his annoying offseason (maybe Lewis can do the same with Chad -- I guess we'll see).

[South Beach Bengal]

I remember at that time I was hoping the Bengals picked Coughlin because he was a tough, no-nonsense coach and I thought he would be perfect for us.

But in hindsight, I think the Bengals made the right decision.

We have no way of knowing whether or not the Bengals would have won a Super Bowl with Coughlin. My guess is no way. But it is impossible to guess, there are just too many variables.

I think ML has done a good job with the Bengals so far and I hope he sticks around long enough to take us the rest of the way.

[devils advocate]

Yeah, I believe the right decision was made in hiring Marvin.Coughlin has won a superbowl,but until half way through last season,it was a long shot.How many of those players has Coughlin drafted?We see that alot on here,how well or not Marvin has drafted.Lets face it,the Bengals had a long way to climb from the 90's.I'm not so sure anybody would've done a better job than Marvin.They could've already fired Coughlin here,or Parcells for that matter.


Hind sight is 20/20.Although the Bengals should've had more playoff appearances in the past three years,things happened that were out of Marvins control and some he may have been able to control a little better.I do not blame Marvin for Chad's attitude,and there are plenty of questionable characters in the league.Plenty of questionable draftees that straighten up when in the NFL, too.

Hey, the Boston Red Sox were able to turn the curse around and so will the Bengals.

I think alot of guys that post negatives will be singing a different tune come week 10.

[Bengal Dude]

Bascially the argument can only be made because the Giants showed up late in the season and got to the Super Bowl. If the Giants had a usual season, then there would be no debate. I'm glad that we went with Marvin over Coughlin. Plus, Coughlin wasn't a big fan of Carson.

[Smellkiperjr]

You can have a vision and a plan to execute that vision, but if you have an owner who refuses to listen, then what's the point? Seriously, Bill Belichick would struggle to turn this underware-skid-of-a-franchise into a winner as long as Mike Brown anything to say.

[Trust In Marvin]

Marvin all the wayyyyy baby, we all need to trust in Marvin 4-ever!!

[Madden09]

I remember back when both these coaches names were being mentioned for the Bengals. I wanted Coughlin because I knew the Bengals lacked discipline and had very unorganized practices. I remember Ki-jana sitting on his helmet at Bengal camp.

Who would have been the better coach for the Bengals?

Now just to add my reason why Mike Brown didn't hire Tom. Tom would not have been a "Yes" man Mike needs somebody who will be his scapegoat and he knew Tom's personality is far from that.

[Tommy Casanova 72-77]

Tom is like Bill Parcels all the way......in the way he runs things and says what is on his mind.

He would have been harder to deal with and control than Forrest was.......so while he would have been the better choice.....It was reported that he would have wanted to change way too many things that the Bengal management did. Too many changes was not something they were going to do......Heck they changed when they gave Marvin, at first, more control over certain aspects of the way they ran the program.

Before marvin came here.....the Bengals would fly to the West Coast 1 or 2 days before the actual game.

It was to save money on expenses.........and Marvin started flying them earlier to better prepare them for the game. Sounds stupid......and small....but small things like that made marvin look like he had a say in how things could be run and NOW? Well.....Tom would have been out of here already.

[djam]

Tom is more of a hard nosed coach than Marvin. I think at this point, we would be better off with that. You just cant say though. Marvin doesn't have the talent on defense that Tom has had. We tried to get it, but Pollack got hurt, Thurman got kicked out, and we cant seem to even buy a good DT. Geathers looked good once, but now he looks overpaid. No Justin Tuck's on this team, nope. We've been stuck with the Justin Smith's.

[Samhain]

I don't think it would make much difference if they hired TC or not. He's another tough, hard-headed coach that would not likely suffer MB's meddling kindly. Marvin will at least play ball with Mikey Boy. It's not an issue of the coach to me, but of the state this team and "organization" has been in for almost 20 years. Vince Lombardi himself would fail in this system.

[Whodeytay2]

you need to add a wouldn't matter Mike Brown choice......

[GreenDragon]

I still find the humor in the fact that Tom Coughlin interviewed for the Bengals HC spot and MB hired Marvin.

The Bengals have been to the playoffs 3 times since and are 0-3.

The Giants are 11-7 in the playoffs under Coughlin with a Super Bowl win and are about to play in their second Super Bowl under Coughlin.

Hindsight *****.

[Steeler Eater]

Coughlin would not have lasted this long. He demands control of his players and the ability to disciplIne them how he sees fit. He would have suspended half of the team in his first two years and kicked some off and Brown would have booted his *** to the curb.

[ctfan73]

I still find the humor in the fact that Tom Coughlin interviewed for the Bengals HC spot and MB hired Marvin.

The Bengals have been to the playoffs 3 times since and are 0-3.

The Giants are 11-7 in the playoffs under Coughlin with a Super Bowl win and are about to play in their second Super Bowl under Coughlin.

Hindsight *****.

He's 7-3 with the Giants, 11-7 including his time in Jacksonville.

[Jasonew6]

I still find the humor in the fact that Tom Coughlin interviewed for the Bengals HC spot and MB hired Marvin.

The Bengals have been to the playoffs 3 times since and are 0-3.

The Giants are 11-7 in the playoffs under Coughlin with a Super Bowl win and are about to play in their second Super Bowl under Coughlin.

Hindsight *****.

My understanding is MB wanted Tom, Katie talked him into Marvin.

[geronomo]

My understanding is MB wanted Tom, Katie talked him into Marvin.

I remember it this way to. Coughlin rarely gets outcoached, but i think Mike Brown would have frustrated him and he probably would have resigned because he does not like to lose.

[Goose]

I still find the humor in the fact that Tom Coughlin interviewed for the Bengals HC spot and MB hired Marvin.

The Bengals have been to the playoffs 3 times since and are 0-3.

The Giants are 11-7 in the playoffs under Coughlin with a Super Bowl win and are about to play in their second Super Bowl under Coughlin.

Hindsight *****.

coming from a guy who wanted Tom hired because of his strictness and toughness, NY had a pretty good team we didn't.
Looking back ML's hiring has worked out great in the long run which is what this organization needed, good drafting, and stability.:thumbsup:
One of the biggest moves MB ever made,
CP trade, not even close. B)

[Danno]

I still find the humor in the fact that Tom Coughlin interviewed for the Bengals HC spot and MB hired Marvin.

The Bengals have been to the playoffs 3 times since and are 0-3.

The Giants are 11-7 in the playoffs under Coughlin with a Super Bowl win and are about to play in their second Super Bowl under Coughlin.

Hindsight *****.

I see what you are saying, but you also have to take into account the organization that supports the coach. It's the difference between Bill Belichick in Cleveland versus Bill in New England. Tony Dungy in Tampa versus Tony Dungy in Indianapolis.

I think you'd find few here that would argue the Bengals Organization is better than the Giants Organization.

Point is, even if he was here, it wouldn't guarantee the same results.

[bonesaw]

funny thing is Coughlin was considered on the hot seat the year they won the Super Bowl and was considered on the hot seat this year. Alot of good football coaches get fired way too early. Hysterical that people can think guys like **** Lebeau and Jon Gruden can suddenly become crappy coaches. Win it all next year Marvin!

[khamla]

Difference is, is that we are the Bengals and they are the Giants, two different organizations. I don't think Tom would have done any better.

[overton34]

Unless we have a good free agency signing or signings, and a very good draft, this team is still going to finish at .500 or even worse, we have many cancers on this team, so unless they are cut or traded, I still see this team being immature.

But that is also just me talking 2 weeks since we played and no moves have been made thus far.

What Cancers are you talking about....Think you need to reword that a little bit as in weak spots.

I don't think this team has any cancers on the team that you are talking of...

[Shake n Blake]

I remember it like it was yesterday. The candidates were Coughlin, Lewis, Mularky, and Denny Green. I actually wanted Coughlin or Denny Green. They were proven coaches.

In hindsight, I'm glad we passed on Green:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECTt67adObI

Coughlin would have been a great choice. Oh well.

BTW- How the heck did you find a thread so old. I can't look back that far.

[VB BENGAL FANS]

I remember it this way to. Coughlin rarely gets outcoached, but i think Mike Brown would have frustrated him and he probably would have resigned because he does not like to lose.
Maybe I am wrong, but it could be that if Coughlin came here (MB wanted him - I remember that as well), since it would have been MB's pick ....Coughlin may have had more power with the decisions for the team. Who knows . Players seem to really love him and want to play hard for him. I don't really see that same attitude eith ML. As I have said before, our team does not seem all that well coached and doesn't seem to have that hungry attitude to play their hearts out for 60 minutes. Motivation or lack thereof is one of the pieces of the puzzle. If 95% of the pieces are not put together, then a team may get to the playoffs , but won't EVER reach the big dance. Just saying we have what we have so......

[XenoMorph]

mike brown wanted coughlin
his daughter wanted lewis
coughlin has to deal with a lot in NY and still wins

kinda pointless..

different teams different personel different owners.

different situations.

and no time travel.

[THE PISTONS]

I doubt that Chad Johnson lasts as long here with Coughlin. We probably would have traded him to the Redskins for the package that included a 1st Round Pick.

I doubt that we signed Cedric Benson, Tank Johnson, Pacman Jones.

I also think he would have got rid of some of the players with off-the-field issues.

There was a time when Coughlin looked like he was going to ne ran out of NY...then he won a Super Bowl. They said that he was too rough and demanding on players and they tuned him out.

Who knows if he would have had more success?

[GreenDragon]

I remember it like it was yesterday. The candidates were Coughlin, Lewis, Mularky, and Denny Green. I actually wanted Coughlin or Denny Green. They were proven coaches.

In hindsight, I'm glad we passed on Green:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECTt67adObI

Coughlin would have been a great choice. Oh well.

BTW- How the heck did you find a thread so old. I can't look back that far.

my thread must have been combined with the older thread. whatever works.

[ishouldbegm]

we really got the **** end of that deal

[D.Boon]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwkGv40aseG7Q3cYBBR3MNGd-yUuymrA-Phmy8VTt1X8au8yG4Ug

[Wyche'sWarrior]

Tom is more of a hard nosed coach than Marvin. I think at this point, we would be better off with that. You just cant say though. Marvin doesn't have the talent on defense that Tom has had. We tried to get it, but Pollack got hurt, Thurman got kicked out, and we cant seem to even buy a good DT. Geathers looked good once, but now he looks overpaid. No Justin Tuck's on this team, nope. We've been stuck with the Justin Smith's.I bet the Niniers don't have this opinion of him.....he looked pretty fierce out there Sunday. Has really looked good since he got out of Mike Brown's wasteland.
You'll have that when the guy lining up on the other end is actually good too.......instead of one of Mikey's basement bargain deals in FA.<_<

[Ibleedorange]

I still find the humor in the fact that Tom Coughlin interviewed for the Bengals HC spot and MB hired Marvin.

The Bengals have been to the playoffs 3 times since and are 0-3.

The Giants are 11-7 in the playoffs under Coughlin with a Super Bowl win and are about to play in their second Super Bowl under Coughlin.

Hindsight *****.

Nope, the front office is still just as bad now as it was in Jan '08 when this thread was written. Maybe we have differing opinions here, but pretty much any HC would get crushed under the ineptitude of the F.O. so it wouldn't matter if we had God almighty was our coach, we'd still be 0-3 in the playoffs.

[bludgeon]

Vince Lombardi himself would have failed under Mikey.

[Chop Block]

mike brown wanted coughlin
his daughter wanted lewis
coughlin has to deal with a lot in NY and still wins the both flipped a coin to see who the HC would be..nether know what they are doing when it comes to making decisions ..:tiger:

[bludgeon]

the both flipped a coin to see who the HC would be..nether know what they are doing when it comes to making decisions ..:tiger:

Maybe we can try Marvin out at Defensive end...

[fredtoast]

coughlin has to deal with a lot in NY and still wins

Coughlin never had to deal with coaching a team that was $30 million under the salary cap.

Marvin would have looked liek a much better coach if Mike had spent just a few million on a acouple of interior linemen.

[jfkbengals]

I still find the humor in the fact that Tom Coughlin interviewed for the Bengals HC spot and MB hired Marvin.

The Bengals have been to the playoffs 3 times since and are 0-3.

The Giants are 11-7 in the playoffs under Coughlin with a Super Bowl win and are about to play in their second Super Bowl under Coughlin.

Hindsight *****.
The Bengals were coming off of 12 wins total over their prior three seasons when they interviewed those coaches. Coughlin did take over a 4 win team, but the three years prior to that were 12-4 with a SB appearance, 7-9, and 10-6. He had a solid team to work with, and was able to trade for the first overall pick QB to train behind a league and SB MVP QB. So while Lewis was able to get 8 wins for his team in his first season, that was only enough to put his team 13 wins behind the team Coughlin would take over for that same time period. Apples to Oranges.

[henrizzle]

marvin and the bengals will be great in08'......remember that.

lol

[wolfkaosaun]

As long as Mike Brown is the owner, it doesn't matter who the HC is.

[Dabo614]

funny thing is Coughlin was considered on the hot seat the year they won the Super Bowl and was considered on the hot seat this year. Alot of good football coaches get fired way too early. Hysterical that people can think guys like **** Lebeau and Jon Gruden can suddenly become crappy coaches. Win it all next year Marvin!


Difference is that they went on to win,,marvin hasnt, and has had 9 years here to do so.

Did it take coughlin 9 years in NY?? Did it take gruden 9 years in Tampa??

[Ron Mexico]

Did it take gruden 9 years in Tampa??

Gruden rode Tony Dungy's team to the Super Bowl. He doesn't deserve much credit there. Some credit, of course, because he won the big game in his first year, but he didn't build that team.

Honestly I would take Lewis over Coughlin....not because I like Lewis all that much, but because I think Couglin just isn't that good. I doubt he would have done any better, if better at all if he were in Cincy over Lewis.

[Scarlet&Orange]

Yeah I don't think Coughlin was much of a match here. I do think he would have been better than Marvin sooner but couldn't have sustained it without a bigger financial backing. Plus I'm not sure what kind of talent evaluator Coughlin would have been. I do know Marvin has proven to be solid in that regard.

[Shake n Blake]

Gruden rode Tony Dungy's team to the Super Bowl. He doesn't deserve much credit there. Some credit, of course, because he won the big game in his first year, but he didn't build that team.

Honestly I would take Lewis over Coughlin....not because I like Lewis all that much, but because I think Couglin just isn't that good. I doubt he would have done any better, if better at all if he were in Cincy over Lewis.

By that logic, Gruden should still get a little credit for coaching the Bucs, and a lot of credit for building that Raiders superbowl team. Honestly, is anyone giving Mike Singletary credit for the 49ers magical season this year? Nope.

[fredtoast]

Did it take gruden 9 years in Tampa??

Gruden took over a team that had gone to the playoffs for 3 straight years. Won the Super Bowl his first year with that team that Dungy had built then went 45-51 over his next 6 years.

[GreenDragon]

Maybe Tony Dungy would be the answer.

[Wyche'sWarrior]

Gruden rode Tony Dungy's team to the Super Bowl. He doesn't deserve much credit there. Some credit, of course, because he won the big game in his first year, but he didn't build that team.

Honestly I would take Lewis over Coughlin....not because I like Lewis all that much, but because I think Couglin just isn't that good. I doubt he would have done any better, if better at all if he were in Cincy over Lewis.
Yep, but the Raiders rode Gruden's team to the same Super Bowl.....so it's a wash in my book.

[BengalYankee]

Don't forget that Lewis is working under a poor front office. Coughlin works for a owner who wants a championship. Mike Brown is the underhanded loosing curse on the Cincinnati Bengals.

Excellent post. You can't compare the front office of the Giants with the Bengals. That is stupid. The New York media and fans would eat up Mike Brown if he was in New York. Keep in mind the Giants have direct competition with the Jets. Again, the premise of Mike Brown surviving doing his stunts here in NY is ridiculous<_<

[thompson19osu]

Wow I'm sick and tired of people making excuses for Marvin. He is a very poor coach and never has his team ready to play in a big game. If you think otherwise you are lying to yourself. People always rip on Mike Brown and I will agree with my disdain for him but only for the simple fact that he continues to keep Marvin around. Once Marvin is gone this team will go higher, plain and simple.

[BengalYankee]

Wow I'm sick and tired of people making excuses for Marvin. He is a very poor coach and never has his team ready to play in a big game. If you think otherwise you are lying to yourself. People always rip on Mike Brown and I will agree with my disdain for him but only for the simple fact that he continues to keep Marvin around. Once Marvin is gone this team will go higher, plain and simple.

What coach during Mike's tenure had a better record?

[thompson19osu]

None but its sad that you back him with a sub .500 winning percentage and 0 playoff wins.

Not to mention the playoff appearances were complete embarrassments. He just can't get his team ready. I read up on the Texans and their players talked about how pumped they were and how their week of preparation and energy level was through the roof. The interviews with our players had them talking like it was another ho hum week.

[fredtoast]

I read up on the Texans and their players talked about how pumped they were and how their week of preparation and energy level was through the roof. The interviews with our players had them talking like it was another ho hum week.

Yet we were the ones that jumped out to an early lead.

[fredtoast]

None but its sad that you back him with a sub .500 winning percentage and 0 playoff wins.

You can't judge a coach without taking into account the amount of talent he has on his team.

Marvin was playing with a team that was $30 million under the cap this year. I guarantee he would have looked like a much better coach if Mike had spent just a few million dollars on another O-lineman or two.

[BengalYankee]

You can't judge a coach without taking into account the amount of talent he has on his team.

Marvin was playing with a team that was $30 million under the cap this year. I guarantee he would have looked like a much better coach if Mike had spent just a few million dollars on another O-lineman or two.


100% correct!!!:thumbsup:

[Renaissance]

Yet we were the ones that jumped out to an early lead.

Then got outscored 31-3.
I still think Lewis is a top 50 head coach even after he burned our only 2 first half challenges while giving away 2 timeouts on back to back horrible decisions before many people found their seats.

I can think of only one other person who has looked so lost during a game. I had flashbacks to Dave Shula.

I bet MB wishes he had the ba*** to give Zimmer the job at halftime, or anytime.

[fredtoast]

Then got outscored 31-3.
I still think Lewis is a top 50 head coach even after he burned our only 2 first half challenges while giving away 2 timeouts on back to back horrible decisions before many people found their seats.

I can think of only one other person who has looked so lost during a game. I had flashbacks to Dave Shula.

The challenge calls come from the booth from what I understand. Plus they had absolutely no effect on the outcome of the game. But In guarantee that if he had NOT made those challenges you would be here ripping him for being "frozen" or "too scared" to throw the flag.

So that is all you got? Two bad challenges that meant nothing?

Comparing Marvin to Dave Shula just proves how little you know about coaching.

[BengalYankee]

Then got outscored 31-3.
I still think Lewis is a top 50 head coach even after he burned our only 2 first half challenges while giving away 2 timeouts on back to back horrible decisions before many people found their seats.

I can think of only one other person who has looked so lost during a game. I had flashbacks to Dave Shula.

I bet MB wishes he had the ba*** to give Zimmer the job at halftime, or anytime.

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly1ugzmMBZ1rnb4kco1_500.jpg

[peezygonsalez]

not to take anything away from coughlin who is a great coach but he also has eli manning, and had michael strahan. i could list alot of other great players but i think its safe to stop there.

[Renaissance]

The challenge calls come from the booth from what I understand. Plus they had absolutely no effect on the outcome of the game. But In guarantee that if he had NOT made those challenges you would be here ripping him for being "frozen" or "too scared" to throw the flag.

So that is all you got? Two bad challenges that meant nothing?

Comparing Marvin to Dave Shula just proves how little you know about coaching.

Actually I was yelling IDIOT at the TV both times the second he made the challenge.

Marvin is a much better coach than DS, so we agree on that. DS looked lost during every game while Marvin does have games where he looks in control of the situation.
Marvin is responsible for the person telling him to challenge. Nothing about those two plays would make a person who understands the rules of the game challenge those calls. Marvin is responsible to have the person in that job understand the rules. The fact that the game played out so this was not the reason we lost is no reason to overlook it. It very well could have been the difference if we were the victims of a bad call later on in a close game. If you are saying Marvin knew ahead of time it wasn't going to be a close game then I guess you have a point.
It was Marvin's lack of total game preparation (including the person he trusts to challenge plays) that reminded me of DS on that day. DS always look lost and so did ML on that day. If you want to argue Marvin could out-coach Dave on his worst day then sure I will agree with you, but he came way too close in a very important game for me to ignore the similarities.
If me having the audacity to compare DS with ML in this game is proof to you that I know little about coaching, then I have no interest in trying to convince you of anything ever. I only reply so others can judge for themselves how they felt during that game as far as how lost ML seemed to them.

[BoomerFan]

These fans would have hated Coughlin. They would have been merciless and run him out of town. Meanwhile Lewis would probably be off getting another Superbowl ring somewhere and people would be complaining that we hadn't gotten him when we had the chance.

[BengalYankee]

These fans would have hated Coughlin. They would have been merciless and run him out of town. Meanwhile Lewis would probably be off getting another Superbowl ring somewhere and people would be complaining that we hadn't gotten him when we had the chance.


:thumbsup:

[Renaissance]

These fans would have hated Coughlin. They would have been merciless and run him out of town. Meanwhile Lewis would probably be off getting another Superbowl ring somewhere and people would be complaining that we hadn't gotten him when we had the chance.

At the time I remember thinking Marvin was the better choice. Different teams, different owners, different culture, so impossible to know for sure how he would have done.
At this point in our teams development, and with MB drafting well, Coughlin would be a good fit now.

[BengalYankee]

At the time I remember thinking Marvin was the better choice. Different teams, different owners, different culture, so impossible to know for sure how he would have done.
At this point in our teams development, and with MB drafting well, Coughlin would be a good fit now.


Too late, he belongs to New York.

http://withfriendship.com/images/d/17574/Evil-laugh-picture.jpg

[BengalYankee]

The challenge calls come from the booth from what I understand. Plus they had absolutely no effect on the outcome of the game. But In guarantee that if he had NOT made those challenges you would be here ripping him for being "frozen" or "too scared" to throw the flag.

So that is all you got? Two bad challenges that meant nothing?

Comparing Marvin to Dave Shula just proves how little you know about coaching.


http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw14h9GJJB1r5ul4xo1_500.jpg

[Storm]

not to take anything away from coughlin who is a great coach but he also has eli manning, and had michael strahan. i could list alot of other great players but i think its safe to stop there.


What about Marvin's "Great Eye For Talent"?

[Storm]

These fans would have hated Coughlin. They would have been merciless and run him out of town. Meanwhile Lewis would probably be off getting another Superbowl ring somewhere and people would be complaining that we hadn't gotten him when we had the chance.


Marvin may not even had a job if the Bengals chose Coughlin, how many times was he passed over through all the HC vacancies before the Bengals got tricked?

I wondered why he was being passed over and over but I now know why

[Renaissance]

Too late, he belongs to New York.

http://withfriendship.com/images/d/17574/Evil-laugh-picture.jpg

Never mind then.

[THE PISTONS]

They had Reedy on and the Pittsburgh Sports columnists asked him this question. Reedy essentially said that he didn't know if Couglin would be successful here as you have to be coach and quasi-GM here.

Steelers player said this in interviews:
-Before the game, the Steelers snapper was on the field when the Bengals were getting introduced. Pacman Jones went out and grabbed him by the facemask and Casey Hampton and some of the other Steelers came over to help.

Contract this to Colon smashing Burfict into the turf when no Bengals helped.

-Supposedly at the bottom of the pile, one of the Bengals pulled 2 of Colon's dreadlocks out. This was part of the reason he went after Burfict. The radio guys then made fun of the Bengals for going after snappers and pulling hair.

[ibengals]

How is Emmanuel Sanders doing again? Looked like one hell of an injury.....


I think the Steelers should shut the **** up. They're the dirtiest team in the league, so sometimes you get what's coming to you.

[thompson19osu]

Wrong. Bengals did come to help Burfict.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfaJhUDRlDc

[gardner30]

If only they had a player with Pacmans nastyness, that could actually play, to lead this defense.

This defense really needs that I believe.

Somebody like Takeo Spikes.

Maybe Burfict can be that guy.

Pac is decent but really not that good.

Finnegan could have been that guy.

[THE PISTONS]

If only they had a player with Pacmans nastyness, that could actually play, to lead this defense.

This defense really needs that I believe.

Somebody like Takeo Spikes.

Maybe Burfict can be that guy.

Pac is decent but really not that good.

Finnegan could have been that guy.

Pacman had so much potential 5 years ago. That ship has sailed.

[McC]

They had Reedy on and the Pittsburgh Sports columnists asked him this question. Reedy essentially said that he didn't know if Couglin would be successful here as you have to be coach and quasi-GM here.

Steelers player said this in interviews:
-Before the game, the Steelers snapper was on the field when the Bengals were getting introduced. Pacman Jones went out and grabbed him by the facemask and Casey Hampton and some of the other Steelers came over to help.

Contract this to Colon smashing Burfict into the turf when no Bengals helped.

-Supposedly at the bottom of the pile, one of the Bengals pulled 2 of Colon's dreadlocks out. This was part of the reason he went after Burfict. The radio guys then made fun of the Bengals for going after snappers and pulling hair.

The radio guys have the right to laugh because they have SO much to do with the Steelers' success. Radio guys--too ugly for TV, too stupid for print.

[SunsetBengal]

The radio guys have the right to laugh because they have SO much to do with the Steelers' success. Radio guys--too ugly for TV, too stupid for print.

Ouch, that hurts. I was a radio guy for 2 years.

[THE PISTONS]

The radio guys have the right to laugh because they have SO much to do with the Steelers' success. Radio guys--too ugly for TV, too stupid for print.

It wasn't broadcasters...it was actually on 2 different radio stations too.

[McC]

It wasn't broadcasters...it was actually on 2 different radio stations too.

I was just going by you having called them radio guys.

[McC]

The radio guys have the right to laugh because they have SO much to do with the Steelers' success. Radio guys--too ugly for TV, too stupid for print.

Ouch, that hurts. I was a radio guy for 2 years.

I forgot to mention--you're the exception.

[AngryPanda]

I forgot to mention--you're the exception.

He's just saying this to be polite.

[SunsetBengal]

He's just saying this to be polite.


I know, and it only makes it worse! :frown:

[AngryPanda]

I know, and it only makes it worse! :frown:

It it makes you feel any better, I think you look super handsome in your signature.

[SunsetBengal]

It it makes you feel any better, I think you look super handsome in your signature.


Thanks, but do you have any idea just how long it took me to squeeze into that alligator suit? :lol:

[AngryPanda]

Thanks, but do you have any idea just how long it took me to squeeze into that alligator suit? :lol:

Probably about 30 years. Luckily my generation has Dove for Men http://4l.glassgorilla.net/skype/whew.gif