Mel Kiper chat

[jimmytheo]

Joe *Cincinnati*: In every mock I've seen the Bengals select either Sed Ellis or Laurinaitis. Say both are available who would you take for the Bengals?

SportsNation Mel Kiper: The biggest thing they need is they have to add a DT. A disruptive force and a big time run stuffer. They don't have any top drawer LBs. In the front seven, you need DT help and LB help at all three spots. That's where you have to go. And, are you going to count on Chris Henry every year as your third WR? A little more help at WR. A pass catching TE wouldn't be that bad either to help out Carson Palmer. They have some offensive issues and mainly defensive issues.

SportsNation Mel Kiper: Ellis, Laurinaitis, Maualuga are the names of guys you're talking about in that spot.

I disagree with Mel on this one. Our two biggest needs are DT and DE. If we don't have two new starters at these positions next year then we are lost. If we resign Landon and Dhani then our linebacker should be good enough and deep enough . I agree with Mel that its not a top flight unit and we should add a lb via the draft but not until we addressed DE and DT.

I keep looking at mock drafts and I cant decided if I want us to take a DE or a DT in the first. I really believe that one of those spots needs to be a proven veteran.

Does anyone know what DE's and DT's will be available as free agents or for trades? Also if we are forced to draft both spots which position is most likely to have a starter sitting there when we pick in the second round?

[DooDooMagoo]

It really all depends on who is there... We definitley cant reach for a guy at DE or DT if one of the top tier guys are not there at 9...with a top 10 pick you need it to be an immediate impact player.. whether its on the offense or the defensive side of the ball... preferably defense but id rather have a WR or a RB than reach for a questionable guy on defense

[jimmytheo]

It really all depends on who is there... We definitley cant reach for a guy at DE or DT if one of the top tier guys are not there at 9...with a top 10 pick you need it to be an immediate impact player.. whether its on the offense or the defensive side of the ball... preferably defense but id rather have a WR or a RB than reach for a questionable guy on defense

There is no doubt that a player thats considereded a top ten pick who plays DE and most likely one that plays DT will be there for our pick. I wouldn't be surprised to see us picking between the 2nd best DT, Ellis, and two of the top three DE's.

Im not worried that we wont get a DE or DT with our first round pick. Im worried that we wont be able to add another starter at the other spot via the draft, free agency or a trade.

[OneTwistedGamer]

I disagree with Mel on this one. Our two biggest needs are DT and DE. If we don't have two new starters at these positions next year then we are lost. If we resign Landon and Dhani then our linebacker should be good enough and deep enough . I agree with Mel that its not a top flight unit and we should add a lb via the draft but not until we addressed DE and DT.

I keep looking at mock drafts and I cant decided if I want us to take a DE or a DT in the first. I really believe that one of those spots needs to be a proven veteran.

Does anyone know what DE's and DT's will be available as free agents or for trades? Also if we are forced to draft both spots which position is most likely to have a starter sitting there when we pick in the second round?

yes there could be some big ones out there. like Pat Williams, Terrel Suggs, Randy Starks, Albert Haynesworth, Jared Allen, and Tommy Kelly. There are more but those are the bigger name ones.

[Jasonew6]

yes there could be some big ones out there. like Pat Williams, Terrel Suggs, Randy Starks, Albert Haynesworth, Jared Allen, and Tommy Kelly. There are more but those are the bigger name ones.

None of whom the Bengals will sign.

As for DT/DE/LB, you make your draft board, and let the available talent decide. Really, there are only 4 D-linemen really worth the #9 overall pick (Dorsey, Ellis, Long, and Gholston), and it is quite possible all 4 could be gone. Two of them for sure will be. Personally, I now believe Laurinaitis will be a Buckeye in 2008. Connor is probably the best LB available, but is he worth #9? Do you reach for Calais Campbell at 9 based on his sky high "potential"? Tough call. All I can say is I hope Sedrick Ellis is there at 9. That makes it easy.

[DooDooMagoo]

None of whom the Bengals will sign.

As for DT/DE/LB, you make your draft board, and let the available talent decide. Really, there are only 4 D-linemen really worth the #9 overall pick (Dorsey, Ellis, Long, and Gholston), and it is quite possible all 4 could be gone. Two of them for sure will be. Personally, I now believe Laurinaitis will be a Buckeye in 2008. Connor is probably the best LB available, but is he worth #9? Do you reach for Calais Campbell at 9 based on his sky high "potential"? Tough call. All I can say is I hope Sedrick Ellis is there at 9. That makes it easy.

I dont think you reach for calais campbell at 9... There are some mocks pushing him into the 2nd round I see now..

Sedrick ellis would be a perfect pick.. and from what I hear in columbus and coming from a few players on the team, Its almost a done deal laurinitis is coming back to osu in 2008.. I know alex boone seemed pretty sure of it as well

[Jasonew6]

I dont think you reach for calais campbell at 9... There are some mocks pushing him into the 2nd round I see now..

Sedrick ellis would be a perfect pick.. and from what I hear in columbus and coming from a few players on the team, Its almost a done deal laurinitis is coming back to osu in 2008.. I know alex boone seemed pretty sure of it as well

So, if Ellis, and Gholston, as well as Long and Dorsey are gone, what do we do at 9? I really don't see us taking another CB, so I would be shocked if we took Mike Jenkins. Would they draft Kenny Phillips at 9, or trade down?

[DooDooMagoo]

So, if Ellis, and Gholston, as well as Long and Dorsey are gone, what do we do at 9? I really don't see us taking another CB, so I would be shocked if we took Mike Jenkins. Would they draft Kenny Phillips at 9, or trade down?

If all 4 of those guys are gone, I think you look to trade down with someone wanting to move up and take one of those 3 qb's if one is still sitting there.. It will hurt us a little bit if laurinitis does go back to school because thats one more top 10 defensive player off the board...

Worst case scenario is you take an immediate impact player like desean jackson who can come in and play the #4 wr and return punts and kickoffs in his rookie season.. I know offense is really the last thing we need but if you cant trade down for some reason, you still need to draft an immediate impact guy.. Even fred davis for Tight end would work out for us as well.. But I think if we have to go offense we go with someone like jackson who can fill 2 special team needs in the return game and fill our 4th WR spot before we reach for someone

[Fusch013]

So, if Ellis, and Gholston, as well as Long and Dorsey are gone, what do we do at 9? I really don't see us taking another CB, so I would be shocked if we took Mike Jenkins. Would they draft Kenny Phillips at 9, or trade down?

Jenkins is staying for his senior year!

[1slowss]

Mel's a moron. Maualuga had already said he is staying for his senior year and this chat was done on 1/9.

[DooDooMagoo]

Jenkins is staying for his senior year!

hes talking about mike jenkins the CB for south florida

[DooDooMagoo]

Mel's a moron. Maualuga had already said he is staying for his senior year and this chat was done on 1/9.

I agree but I think some people still think he's going to announce it today or tomorrow hes going to come out...

[Jasonew6]

Jenkins is staying for his senior year!

Malcom is staying, Mike is a senior.

[zanetdaniels]

A lot also rides on what personnel we have returning...is Justin Smith coming back? If so, then a without a doubt we take a DT. I sincerely doubt we get Ellis though. I think he will be gone at number 8 to the Raiders. I would prefer not taking a DE but if both Ellis and Dorsey are gone...then by all means draft a DE. We can always grab a DT in the second. Maybe the guy from Texas.

[ThePekoSquad]

Mel's a moron. Maualuga had already said he is staying for his senior year and this chat was done on 1/9.

I agree, this is the guy that said, Charles Rogers, Mike Williams, Akili Smith, Alex Smith, amungust a lot more players who he said would be make a huge impact and are can't miss players.

[zanetdaniels]

I agree, this is the guy that said, Charles Rogers, Mike Williams, Akili Smith, Alex Smith, amungust a lot more players who he said would be make a huge impact and are can't miss players.

God, don't remind me!

[OneTwistedGamer]

A lot also rides on what personnel we have returning...is Justin Smith coming back? If so, then a without a doubt we take a DT. I sincerely doubt we get Ellis though. I think he will be gone at number 8 to the Raiders. I would prefer not taking a DE but if both Ellis and Dorsey are gone...then by all means draft a DE. We can always grab a DT in the second. Maybe the guy from Texas.

The Raiders to not pick at 8. Raiders would pick between 3 to 5 dependings on a coin flip. The Ravens have the 8th pick and they will not draft Ellis. Raiders have the best chance to draft him but they will not if they get the 3 pick and probably not but cahnces increase at 5.

[jimmytheo]

None of whom the Bengals will sign.

As for DT/DE/LB, you make your draft board, and let the available talent decide. Really, there are only 4 D-linemen really worth the #9 overall pick (Dorsey, Ellis, Long, and Gholston), and it is quite possible all 4 could be gone. Two of them for sure will be. Personally, I now believe Laurinaitis will be a Buckeye in 2008. Connor is probably the best LB available, but is he worth #9? Do you reach for Calais Campbell at 9 based on his sky high "potential"? Tough call. All I can say is I hope Sedrick Ellis is there at 9. That makes it easy.

I just don't think all four will be gone but its way to early to tell. Between players stock moving up or down, teams needs changing and picks being traded its a crap shoot at this point.

I just really hope we don't sit back if we think a player is special and trade up to get him, not matter what round it may be. I am going to be so happy if they trade for or sign a good free agent. i dont even want to overpay for a jared allen caliber player, just a solid, veteran dt or de.

[HearUsRoar]

Mel's a moron. Maualuga had already said he is staying for his senior year and this chat was done on 1/9.

Agreed, Kiper is the same guy who nearly had to flip a coin on whether Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf should be number 1 ten years back. I understand the whole hindsight thing, but seriously.

[zanetdaniels]

The Raiders to not pick at 8. Raiders would pick between 3 to 5 dependings on a coin flip. The Ravens have the 8th pick and they will not draft Ellis. Raiders have the best chance to draft him but they will not if they get the 3 pick and probably not but cahnces increase at 5.

My bad....I apologize. With that being said, it make it harder for the Raider to pick him in those spots due to value. It should be an iteresting draft.

[DooDooMagoo]

and this is where our lack of scouting department kills us come draft day.. lets say all 4 of those guys are gone... Do we reach for someone or take someone that is a workout warrior who boosts his stock at the combine and we take a chance on a superior athlete but unsure if those skills will make him an impact football player..

I think you make justin smith a lowball offer and try to get him to lock in for 4-5 yrs at 5 mil per season... I know he's not the best option at DE but if we can get him at that kind of a discount price... he's still a guy who plays almost every snap the entire season... and we can focus on DT and LB and TE the first 3-4 rounds..

[OneTwistedGamer]

My bad....I apologize. With that being said, it make it harder for the Raider to pick him in those spots due to value. It should be an iteresting draft.


Its fine its a easy mistake to make and i see the Raiders them taking Desean Jackson.

[ThePekoSquad]

Its fine its a easy mistake to make and i see the Raiders them taking Desean Jackson.

Has he declared yet? DeSean Jackson in the top 10 is a huge mistake period. I think that if Oakland gets pick 3 then they must select Darren McFadden point blank. If they get 4 and Atlanta gets 3, then I do believe Darren McFadden will still be there at 4.

If Oakland gets pick five, say goodbye to Sedrick Ellis. Sands might have a big contract, but yet that defense is terrible. Either that or Jake Long go off the board if Oakland picks fifth.

[OneTwistedGamer]

Has he declared yet? DeSean Jackson in the top 10 is a huge mistake period. I think that if Oakland gets pick 3 then they must select Darren McFadden point blank. If they get 4 and Atlanta gets 3, then I do believe Darren McFadden will still be there at 4.

If Oakland gets pick five, say goodbye to Sedrick Ellis. Sands might have a big contract, but yet that defense is terrible. Either that or Jake Long go off the board if Oakland picks fifth.

No he has not declared yet but I think he will and I will agree if it number 3 it wont be Jackson it might be either of the Longs or McFadden.

[DennyG2]

i would take ellis, all day every day

[EatonFan]

i would take ellis, all day every day

How about on leap year?

[tanzillathrilla]

forget ellis ...is there anyway i can draft that girl on eatonfans page....ow ow! :wub:

[cinc4ever1]

So, if Ellis, and Gholston, as well as Long and Dorsey are gone, what do we do at 9? I really don't see us taking another CB, so I would be shocked if we took Mike Jenkins. Would they draft Kenny Phillips at 9, or trade down?

If all 4 of the top Dlineman are gone when we pick then i say we trade down and land Frank Okam or take a look at the DT from North Carolina who seems to be having his draft stock soaring right now.We can always get a good DE in round 2.

[goalpost]

Geez..i think Mel nailed it. Front seven? Dt and Lb's?

[gbengals]

A couple of things to keep in mind first of all. The scouting combine or personal workout has not even been done yet. Players will move up and down based on these workouts. Another thing to keep in mind is Chad Johnson. His comments on ESPN wanting out could get him his wish if the teams so decides, so a WR in the first rd is not a big suprise should a trade be done that sends Chad out. While I like Landon Johnson and Jones they are not "playmakers". They do what is told of them and do it well, but they just dont make plays. They also dont scare anyone with thier tackling. The Bengals NEED that type of guy that makes plays and when he hits you, you know it. You wouldnt even need to look at him and you know it. Every great D has one of those type of players on the D. Darren McFadder has offically declared for the draft but so has his "backup" in Felix Jones. Mario Manningham a WR from Michigan also has declared for the draft. So has fellow Michigan WR Adrian Arrington. Manningham is considered a first rd pick since the position is so weak this year. Flordia State QB Xavier Lee, LB Geno Hayes, and DL Letroy Guion also has decared for the draft.

[jimmytheo]

A couple of things to keep in mind first of all. The scouting combine or personal workout has not even been done yet. Players will move up and down based on these workouts. Another thing to keep in mind is Chad Johnson. His comments on ESPN wanting out could get him his wish if the teams so decides, so a WR in the first rd is not a big suprise should a trade be done that sends Chad out.

I think we have a better chance of winning with a new DE or DT then with a new top flight WR
to replace chad if he goes. I'm sick of his crap so I wouldn't cry if he leaves but lets face it, he is a special talent at WR and alot of WR's act that way. With TO it was obvious he was being a cancer but its harder to tell with chad, i guess only the team really knows. anyway, we lost with the gifted wr so lets try getting a better d line. we are deep at wr anyways.

[Samhain]

If all four d-lineman mentioned are gone and we don't trade down, I'm for taking Phillips. It would make our secondary a real force if he pans out like he should. It would also allow us to let Madieu walk. I don't see any lbs that knock my socks off that are first round caliber. I loved Rey M. from USC, but all for not. None will make us better immediately as a defender has the potential to. There are lots of potentially good wrs left for laters rounds if we decide to go there. I think Urrutuia from Louisville a nice middle round guy. He's huge and for some reason comes off as a guy who will be a better NFL reciever than college player.

[Jasonew6]

If all four d-lineman mentioned are gone and we don't trade down, I'm for taking Phillips. It would make our secondary a real force if he pans out like he should. It would also allow us to let Madieu walk. I don't see any lbs that knock my socks off that are first round caliber. I loved Rey M. from USC, but all for not. None will make us better immediately as a defender has the potential to. There are lots of potentially good wrs left for laters rounds if we decide to go there. I think Urrutuia from Louisville a nice middle round guy. He's huge and for some reason comes off as a guy who will be a better NFL reciever than college player.

I'm starting to think that myself. But I'll be surprised if it happens. The Bengals don't generally take safeties in the first round.