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far away bengal
01-24-2008, 10:16 AM
I'm new here, so first of all thanks for letting me write here...I read this forum everyday looking for news, because I got tired of waiting for espn or nfl network to report something from the bengals, something they will not do....
just wanted to say a few things about marvin and the team
this was marvin's fifth season with the team and I know there's a lot of haters because they have only 1 winning season since....Remember that it takes time to change a whole team's perspective. He has filled the team with talent through the draft, offensively and defensively, and in '05, everybody enjoyed the early success(which ended with carson's nasty injury and a title to the steelers). But don't blame him for trying to repeat that success. After that all the arrests came up, and last year we were the most injured team in the league, at least the 1st half of the season. It wasn't even chuck's fault(even though I hate his boring predictable style, as most of u do)....but now chuck's gone(for good only) and this year the situation is a lot different........
I say this defense will be a top ten this year...a lot of teams play very good defense with half the talent we have...and we have the right guys to get there: zimmer and fitz

our secondary is gonna be great...our linebackers situation is better than ever, specially if we could count with odell and brooks...jones is a great leader and veteran and landon is just solid
now, the d line:
is just one playmaking DT away of becoming great also.....that wolud help peko be free in the middle and help the DE's do their job, but they need to switch positions...smith on the left side(cause he's a great tackler) and geathers on the right side(freeney style)..
with the gazillion picks we have this year on the draft and the big cap room, this team should be able to get the pieces needed for now and the future..

I'm very excited for the next season and the big turnaroun that's about to happen...:thumbsup:

what do u guys think??

Joe from Florence
01-24-2008, 10:23 AM
off-season always brings optimism

as far as us getting better, well we'll just have to wait and see. We have a very VERY tough schedule next year, the toughest maybe since Marvin's been here, possibly tougher than the 2006 schedule.

We have 2 concerns we need to deal with, our D-Line being the biggest problem, and on offense our recievers need to get back to the basicas and start running the correct routes etc. It is oretty glaring when it came out that out of all the incompletions carson had this season 80% of them were attributed to the recievers not running the correct routes.....when your entire passing game is run using timing routes, it is essential the recievers are in the right places when they are supposed to be....apparently that didn't happen last year and it costs us dearly.

Playing with a defense that has been so bad leaves very little room for mistakes on offense, each mistake only dug the hole a bit deeper each game. When you can't afford to make a mistake on offense because your defense can't stop anybody then your in pretty bad shape, and thats where we currently are.

hopefully your optimism is correct and we improve a ton, because we have to if we want to be succesful next year.

TheXpectations
01-24-2008, 10:35 AM
I'm new here, so first of all thanks for letting me write here...I read this forum everyday looking for news, because I got tired of waiting for espn or nfl network to report something from the bengals, something they will not do....
just wanted to say a few things about marvin and the team
this was marvin's fifth season with the team and I know there's a lot of haters because they have only 1 winning season since....Remember that it takes time to change a whole team's perspective. He has filled the team with talent through the draft, offensively and defensively, and in '05, everybody enjoyed the early success(which ended with carson's nasty injury and a title to the steelers). But don't blame him for trying to repeat that success. After that all the arrests came up, and last year we were the most injured team in the league, at least the 1st half of the season. It wasn't even chuck's fault(even though I hate his boring predictable style, as most of u do)....but now chuck's gone(for good only) and this year the situation is a lot different........
I say this defense will be a top ten this year...a lot of teams play very good defense with half the talent we have...and we have the right guys to get there: zimmer and fitz

our secondary is gonna be great...our linebackers situation is better than ever, specially if we could count with odell and brooks...jones is a great leader and veteran and landon is just solid
now, the d line:
is just one playmaking DT away of becoming great also.....that wolud help peko be free in the middle and help the DE's do their job, but they need to switch positions...smith on the left side(cause he's a great tackler) and geathers on the right side(freeney style)..
with the gazillion picks we have this year on the draft and the big cap room, this team should be able to get the pieces needed for now and the future..

I'm very excited for the next season and the big turnaroun that's about to happen...:thumbsup:

what do u guys think??


I can't lie and say that I am not more excited about having a defense that is not run by Chucky... but I am not going to get my expectations up just yet. I need to see what we do in the draft as well as the health of most of our defensive players. Odell if he is reinstated will be rusy as he has't played in an NFL game since 2005... and even if we do draft well it usually will take at least 4 games for our rookies to start to find their individual identities and adjust to the NFL speed.

I would like to be optomistic about '08 but as Joe said our schedule is insane and we have a lot of work to do...

far away bengal
01-24-2008, 10:41 AM
you're right joe, i forgot about the offense...
I know brat *****..he's like an offensive chuck....but is he really that bad..
the offense has been carrying this team for the last few years, and even when last season it didn't look as good as before, we were among the leagues top offenses...
rudi was great before and its normal to try and use him as much as he can...too bad the job wasn't done...and the irons injury.......but there's a reason for all the bad accuracy/route running problem....and I'm sure u know this.......without a running game, is easy to cover the receivers, even our great ones...
and is obvious that carson isn't the same confident QB after the surgery...I think that's why brat said he talked to carson and that he was ready now...it takes time to get over an injury that bad...believe me...I had one of my own...is all mental

but imagine the '06 bears with our offense....hhmmmm.....SB champions, right?
I'm not trying to say this defense will become as good as the bears' this year, but they will improve drastically, enough to make this team a SB contender right away

Skeeter McGee
01-24-2008, 11:02 AM
I like the fact that maybe we have finally got ourselves a quality DC for a change, and i like the LB's coach hiring as well, but we won't be successful until we start getting some quality players on defense, which we currently have very few of. This organization needs to step up and show the coaches, players, and fans that they are serious about being a top notch team by signing at least 1 impact defensive free agent, and by making the right picks in the draft that will greatly help this team for years to come.

DennyGII
01-24-2008, 11:03 AM
off-season always brings optimism

as far as us getting better, well we'll just have to wait and see. We have a very VERY tough schedule next year, the toughest maybe since Marvin's been here, possibly tougher than the 2006 schedule.

We have 2 concerns we need to deal with, our D-Line being the biggest problem, and on offense our recievers need to get back to the basicas and start running the correct routes etc. It is oretty glaring when it came out that out of all the incompletions carson had this season 80% of them were attributed to the recievers not running the correct routes.....when your entire passing game is run using timing routes, it is essential the recievers are in the right places when they are supposed to be....apparently that didn't happen last year and it costs us dearly.

Playing with a defense that has been so bad leaves very little room for mistakes on offense, each mistake only dug the hole a bit deeper each game. When you can't afford to make a mistake on offense because your defense can't stop anybody then your in pretty bad shape, and thats where we currently are.

hopefully your optimism is correct and we improve a ton, because we have to if we want to be succesful next year.I agree Joe with your areas of concern, I think they will be addressed via the draft, free agency and our new coaches, which will be huge. It seems we are basing everything on last years personell which won't even be near that the time we line up for our first game. I truely believe with health new faces and coaches and a little luck this D-fense will improve enough to get us in the playoffs and then anything is possible. As far as the schedule, it certainly looks tough, but the beauty of the NFL is what looks good now may be no more than average later. I strongly believe this a playoff caliber team.:thumbsup:

khamla
01-24-2008, 11:08 AM
We trade Rudi for Rogers, resign our KEY players and then head into the draft then we would have the PERFECT offseason.

zanetdaniels
01-24-2008, 11:08 AM
you're right joe, i forgot about the offense...
I know brat *****..he's like an offensive chuck....but is he really that bad..
the offense has been carrying this team for the last few years, and even when last season it didn't look as good as before, we were among the leagues top offenses...
rudi was great before and its normal to try and use him as much as he can...too bad the job wasn't done...and the irons injury.......but there's a reason for all the bad accuracy/route running problem....and I'm sure u know this.......without a running game, is easy to cover the receivers, even our great ones...
and is obvious that carson isn't the same confident QB after the surgery...I think that's why brat said he talked to carson and that he was ready now...it takes time to get over an injury that bad...believe me...I had one of my own...is all mental

but imagine the '06 bears with our offense....hhmmmm.....SB champions, right?
I'm not trying to say this defense will become as good as the bears' this year, but they will improve drastically, enough to make this team a SB contender right away

I agree with a lot of things that Joe has said....but there are a couple of things that I would like to mention.

1. I have, like many people on here, been overly critical of the offensive play calling from Brat. However, we were not having this discussion in 2005 or 2006. The fact of the matter is we just didn't have a very good offensive year. I am going to say that Brat is the offensive duplicate of Chuck, No....because unlike Chuck, Brat has an history with having a good offense. Just not last year.

2. It is absolutley CRITICAL that we establish a running game next year wether that is with or without Rudi Johnson. I like Rudi but his time may be over in Cincy. As mush as I admire loyalty....there is no place for it in the business of the NFL. Marvin needs to make a decision on which way this team is heading as far as the ground game is concerned. If that mean drafting an every down back to go along with Irons, Watson, DeDe and Perry then so be it.....but one, if not more, of our running backs will be cut in camp. Carson is a hybrid between Tom Brady (who manages the game like a robot) and Peyton Manning (who teams the game as a science with the hurry up offense.) Last year, without a running game, Carson tried to play more like a Brett Farve who makes plays and plays the game by the seat of his pants....and it showed with his TD/INT ratio. The running game is the QB's best friend and without it Carson had to put the team on his back. Establish the running game and Carson will be back to his old form.

3. Finally...we get some people healthy again. I believe 100% that Chucks defense was a big problem and has been since he came here....he just get the job done. He had time to at least show improvement but the fact is he got worse the longer he was here. With our new defensive coaches and our young LB corp I think we will be fine. (By the way...I was on the NFL Draft Countdown site and a guy on the mesage board said we sould be VERY lucky to have signed Jeff FitzGerald as our LB coach. According to him, who is a Ravens Fan, he thought he was going to take over the entire D if Rex Ryan moved on)

With a good Draft and a more aggressive defense we will be a force in 2008....tough schedule or not.

Jason
01-24-2008, 11:13 AM
I like the fact that maybe we have finally got ourselves a quality DC for a change, and i like the LB's coach hiring as well, but we won't be successful until we start getting some quality players on defense, which we currently have very few of. This organization needs to step up and show the coaches, players, and fans that they are serious about being a top notch team by signing at least 1 impact defensive free agent, and by making the right picks in the draft that will greatly help this team for years to come.
I think we have a tiny nucleus of players on D who can be great. They are young too! The rookie safeties, JJ, Leon, Domata ( who ill benefit from the drafting of the beefiest hole plugging DT available), Landon, Geathers and (praying) maybe Pollack and Thurman. But, you are right, a FA or two couldn't hurt either.

far away bengal
01-24-2008, 11:27 AM
I couldn't agree more with zanet
that's exactly my point about carson and the offense

of course health plays a very big role....as it does in every sport

I say we should forget about the last two years and see it as if this is the year after the great revealing '05 season, because this defense is about to impress a lot of people

zanetdaniels
01-24-2008, 11:31 AM
I couldn't agree more with zanet
that's exactly my point about carson and the offense

of course health plays a very big role....as it does in every sport

I say we should forget about the last two years and see it as if this is the year after the great revealing '05 season, because this defense is about to impress a lot of people

Thanks....a co-worker and I always discuss the health aspect of the game. Every year some teams get good breaks and some teams get bad breaks....these breaks absolutley can change the otcome of the season....we just happened to be one of those teams with horrible breaks. Injuries, running game and the defense were all bad breaks for us. We can just hope next year is a little better.

HearUsRoar
01-24-2008, 11:38 AM
We have 2 concerns we need to deal with, our D-Line being the biggest problem, and on offense our recievers need to get back to the basicas and start running the correct routes etc. It is oretty glaring when it came out that out of all the incompletions carson had this season 80% of them were attributed to the recievers not running the correct routes.....when your entire passing game is run using timing routes, it is essential the recievers are in the right places when they are supposed to be....apparently that didn't happen last year and it costs us dearly.



You're right that our D-line is the biggest problem. Last in sacks just doesn't cut it, not even close.

But as for the route-running comment, there is absolutely no way that 80% of all of Carson's incompletions were caused by incorrect routes ran by the wide receivers. That's a complete joke, I don't care where it came from. Let's take a look at that comment from the Bengals:

1.) Carson did not complete 35% of his throws this year.
2.) The Bengals claim that after film study 80% of that 35% was due to incorrect route running.
3.) 80% of that 35% equates to 28%. When you add that 28% to his 65% completion percentage you get a hypothetical completion percentage of 93%.
4.) Chad and TJ each had 7 official dropped passes, Chris Henry had 5 official dropped passes, throw in 10 other dropped passes from the other wr's, te's and rb's combined and that's 29 dropped passes last year.
5.) Carson threw the ball 575 times in '07. 29 dropped passes equals a dropped pass on 5% of his throws.
6.) Add that (legitimate) 5% to his hypothetical 93 completion percentage and you're at 98%.

In other words the powers that be see that Carson makes a mistake/bad pass on only 1 out of every 50 throws...

Carson had a bad year this year (for Carson), go ahead Cincinnati, soak it in, because it's the truth. I love Carson to death but let's not coddle his psyche. He doesn't need it. He's a grown man. He had a bad year, he'll be better in '08...probably somewhere in the 90's as far as completion percentage. :rolleyes:

zanetdaniels
01-24-2008, 11:41 AM
You're right that our D-line is the biggest problem. Last in sacks just doesn't cut it, not even close.

But as for the route-running comment, there is absolutely no way that 80% of all of Carson's incompletions were caused by incorrect routes ran by the wide receivers. That's a complete joke, I don't care where it came from. Let's take a look at that comment from the Bengals:

1.) Carson did not complete 35% of his throws this year.
2.) The Bengals claim that after film study 80% of that 35% was due to incorrect route running.
3.) 80% of that 35% equates to 28%. When you add that 28% to his 65% completion percentage you get a hypothetical completion percentage of 93%.
4.) Chad and TJ each had 7 official dropped passes, Chris Henry had 5 official dropped passes, throw in 10 other dropped passes from the other wr's, te's and rb's combined and that's 29 dropped passes last year.
5.) Carson threw the ball 575 times in '07. 29 dropped passes equals a dropped pass on 5% of his throws.
6.) Add that (legitimate) 5% to his hypothetical 93 completion percentage and you're at 98%.

In other words the powers that be see that Carson makes a mistake/bad pass on only 1 out of every 50 throws...

Carson had a bad year this year (for Carson), go ahead Cincinnati, soak it in, because it's the truth. I love Carson to death but let's not coddle his psyche. He doesn't need it. He's a grown man. He had a bad year, he'll be better in '08...probably somewhere in the 90's as far as completion percentage. :rolleyes:

Establish a running game like we have had in the past and Carson will be fine in '08, Again, not to sound cliche', but the running game is a QB's best friend. But you are right....

far away bengal
01-24-2008, 11:47 AM
You're right that our D-line is the biggest problem. Last in sacks just doesn't cut it, not even close.

But as for the route-running comment, there is absolutely no way that 80% of all of Carson's incompletions were caused by incorrect routes ran by the wide receivers. That's a complete joke, I don't care where it came from. Let's take a look at that comment from the Bengals:

1.) Carson did not complete 35% of his throws this year.
2.) The Bengals claim that after film study 80% of that 35% was due to incorrect route running.
3.) 80% of that 35% equates to 28%. When you add that 28% to his 65% completion percentage you get a hypothetical completion percentage of 93%.
4.) Chad and TJ each had 7 official dropped passes, Chris Henry had 5 official dropped passes, throw in 10 other dropped passes from the other wr's, te's and rb's combined and that's 29 dropped passes last year.
5.) Carson threw the ball 575 times in '07. 29 dropped passes equals a dropped pass on 5% of his throws.
6.) Add that (legitimate) 5% to his hypothetical 93 completion percentage and you're at 98%.

In other words the powers that be see that Carson makes a mistake/bad pass on only 1 out of every 50 throws...

Carson had a bad year this year (for Carson), go ahead Cincinnati, soak it in, because it's the truth. I love Carson to death but let's not coddle his psyche. He doesn't need it. He's a grown man. He had a bad year, he'll be better in '08...probably somewhere in the 90's as far as completion percentage. :rolleyes:


Great numbers...I though something like that, but w/o all the math, but,
carson didn't have a bad year..he just wasn't as good as before(because other reasons:lack of running game, defense, etc)
but he did have a good season...record pass yards for the franchise...
there's a lot of QB's out there that dream of having a season like that

HearUsRoar
01-24-2008, 12:00 PM
Establish a running game like we have had in the past and Carson will be fine in '08, Again, not to sound cliche', but the running game is a QB's best friend. But you are right....

Oh I agree, Rudi being completely inept and the powers that be insisting on putting him and all his ineptness in the game when he was repeatedly proving he didn't deserve to be in there, did not help Carson. Agreed 100%. But they need to call a spade a spade. I'm sure there were some route running problems here and there but to tell the fanbase that 80% of the incompletions were caused by bad route running is insulting our intelligence.

80% of the 35% (202 incompletions) equals 162 incorrect routes. That's 10 incorrect routes a game. No way.

zanetdaniels
01-24-2008, 12:03 PM
Oh I agree, Rudi being completely inept and the powers that be insisting on putting him and all his ineptness in the game when he was repeatedly proving he didn't deserve to be in there, did not help Carson. Agreed 100%. But they need to call a spade a spade. I'm sure there were some route running problems here and there but to tell the fanbase that 80% of the incompletions were caused by bad route running is insulting our intelligence.

80% of the 35% (202 incompletions) equals 162 incorrect routes. That's 10 incorrect routes a game. No way.

No question in my opinion that you are correct...everyone just needs to play better.

Bengals29
01-24-2008, 12:07 PM
I like the hiring of Zimmer and Fitzgerald. We all know our offense will be there. What really hurt us offensively this past season was the fact we could not get our running game going at all. We have very good talent on defense we can be a top 15 defense with the talent we have.

far away bengal
01-24-2008, 12:13 PM
I like the hiring of Zimmer and Fitzgerald. We all know our offense will be there. What really hurt us offensively this past season was the fact we could not get our running game going at all. We have very good talent on defense we can be a top 15 defense with the talent we have.

i agree 100%...our offense is obviously above avg..and with an improvement in the ground department it will close to the best in the league
but our biggest problem has always been the D, hands down....
the talent is there...but raw talent without the proper coaches is nothing..that's exactly my point, the improvement we will see with these new hard working and experienced coaches will be unbelievable!!:thumbsup:

kpetrin
01-24-2008, 12:24 PM
I'm new here, so first of all thanks for letting me write here...I read this forum everyday looking for news, because I got tired of waiting for espn or nfl network to report something from the bengals, something they will not do....
just wanted to say a few things about marvin and the team
this was marvin's fifth season with the team and I know there's a lot of haters because they have only 1 winning season since....Remember that it takes time to change a whole team's perspective. He has filled the team with talent through the draft, offensively and defensively, and in '05, everybody enjoyed the early success(which ended with carson's nasty injury and a title to the steelers). But don't blame him for trying to repeat that success. After that all the arrests came up, and last year we were the most injured team in the league, at least the 1st half of the season. It wasn't even chuck's fault(even though I hate his boring predictable style, as most of u do)....but now chuck's gone(for good only) and this year the situation is a lot different........
I say this defense will be a top ten this year...a lot of teams play very good defense with half the talent we have...and we have the right guys to get there: zimmer and fitz

our secondary is gonna be great...our linebackers situation is better than ever, specially if we could count with odell and brooks...jones is a great leader and veteran and landon is just solid
now, the d line:
is just one playmaking DT away of becoming great also.....that wolud help peko be free in the middle and help the DE's do their job, but they need to switch positions...smith on the left side(cause he's a great tackler) and geathers on the right side(freeney style)..
with the gazillion picks we have this year on the draft and the big cap room, this team should be able to get the pieces needed for now and the future..

I'm very excited for the next season and the big turnaroun that's about to happen...:thumbsup:

what do u guys think??

Positive thinking; I like that.

I believe the Defense will be improved in 2008 compared to prior years; however, if the Offense cannot find someone to carry the running load, I feel all this effort to improve the Defense may go to waste. The Bengals need to acquire a impact RB who can handle the main role. I feel Rudi has outlived his value and should be cut or take a pay cut to stay with the team. The extra cap room would help find the full time RB for the Bengals in 2008.

If the Bengals don't pursue a new RB for the offense, Rudi should restruct his contract to be incentive driven; this way if he fails as their workhorse the Bengals would not take such a cap hit for a under achiever.

I am praying the Bengals go after is Michael Turner from the Chargers in the off Season.

Keith

far away bengal
01-24-2008, 01:34 PM
I am praying the Bengals go after is Michael Turner from the Chargers in the off Season.

Keith

turner would fit perfectly, but I think that can be done with the watson, 3d and irons combo...and if Irons comes 100%, then he should be the starter
is the defense we need to improve the most, and I think it has begun already with the resent hiring

HearUsRoar
01-24-2008, 01:55 PM
Great numbers...I though something like that, but w/o all the math, but,
carson didn't have a bad year..he just wasn't as good as before(because other reasons:lack of running game, defense, etc)
but he did have a good season...record pass yards for the franchise...
there's a lot of QB's out there that dream of having a season like that

In parenthesis I said he had a bad year (for Carson)

He had a decent year but not great.