Lol

[philhos]

Did anyone notice the debate between Jaws and Korn-hole-heiser? Jaws firmly believes Palmer is an elite QB and the only other elites he said were Brady and Peyton Manning.

Kornheiser grilled him about others (Brees and McNabb were the only others he mentioned), but Jaws said only those 3 were the elites.

I immediately thought of this board and the countless QB threads and I just had to laugh.

[SteelTorch]

Did they really? I must have missed it, cause I was too distracted by that friggin' Atlanta journalist who just WOULD NOT SHUT UP about Vick.

[Joe from Florence]

Did they really? I must have missed it, cause I was too distracted by that friggin' Atlanta journalist who just WOULD NOT SHUT UP about Vick.
Yea they did....Tony Kornheiser showed the world that he knows nothing about the game he announces. He is like Chris Berman...jumps on the bandwagon of any player that had 1 good year most recently.......Tony questioned Jaws saying Carson was better than McNabb (remember Tony is a philly guy, lives close to philly and always pushes the eagles) and Brees who had 1 pretty good year, last year....so that automatically makes Tony think he is great. Brees has a career rating of 87...pretty good rating, but not one that would make him the best qb in the game nor even in the top 3. Ben has a better career rating than Brees

Jaws pretty much shut Tony up and it was great.

[calell83]

I though Kornheiser was from D.C. I know Jaws always puches the eagles. I wanna point out that while I believe Palmer is one of th ebest in the league he is just a touch below Manning and Brady, and will probably be there this year. Also, McNabb was having an amazing season last year and has usually done pretty well with no name receivers so I don't think it is ludicrous to mention him with those guys.

I would go
Brady
Manning
Palmer


Then
McNabb
Brees...

[JS-Steelerfan]

I though Kornheiser was from D.C. I know Jaws always puches the eagles. I wanna point out that while I believe Palmer is one of th ebest in the league he is just a touch below Manning and Brady, and will probably be there this year. Also, McNabb was having an amazing season last year and has usually done pretty well with no name receivers so I don't think it is ludicrous to mention him with those guys.

I would go
Brady
Manning
Palmer


Then
McNabb
Brees...
I believe Kornheiser is from New York, but currently lives in D.C. I don't think he has a Philly bias - he just likes McNabb.

[CatKiller]

Did anyone notice the debate between Jaws and Korn-hole-heiser? Jaws firmly believes Palmer is an elite QB and the only other elites he said were Brady and Peyton Manning.

Kornheiser grilled him about others (Brees and McNabb were the only others he mentioned), but Jaws said only those 3 were the elites.

I immediately thought of this board and the countless QB threads and I just had to laugh.

What you forgot to mention, was that Kornheiser's argument against Palmer was... "Palmer can't be considered an elite quarterback because he hasn't won ANYTHING!"
now that right there is darn funny, I got a chuckle out of it.

[philhos]

What you forgot to mention, was that Kornheiser's argument against Palmer was... "Palmer can't be considered an elite quarterback because he hasn't won ANYTHING!"
now that right there is darn funny, I got a chuckle out of it.

Well, I guess that must mean that we can't consider Marino an elite QB then either. :rolleyes:

[The Bat]

Well, I guess that must mean that we can't consider Marino an elite QB then either. :rolleyes:

Yep and Trent Dilfer is THE MAN!! :smirk:

[Joe from Florence]

I believe Kornheiser is from New York, but currently lives in D.C. I don't think he has a Philly bias - he just likes McNabb.
nah he does....his best friend has been Mike Wilbon for years and years, they work together and Mike has always been a huge Ohilly fan and has rubbed off on Kornheiser....plus a ton of new york natives are philly fans...philly is pretty close to new york. My wife's family is from there and are all philly fans big time. So he could of been a philly fan growing up. He alwasy loved Jaws, who played for philly too remember.

[philhos]

nah he does....his best friend has been Mike Wilbon for years and years, they work together and Mike has always been a huge Ohilly fan and has rubbed off on Kornheiser....plus a ton of new york natives are philly fans...philly is pretty close to new york. My wife's family is from there and are all philly fans big time. So he could of been a philly fan growing up. He alwasy loved Jaws, who played for philly too remember.

Is that why the two were making out during halftime? ;)

[Joe from Florence]

I though Kornheiser was from D.C. I know Jaws always puches the eagles. I wanna point out that while I believe Palmer is one of th ebest in the league he is just a touch below Manning and Brady, and will probably be there this year. Also, McNabb was having an amazing season last year and has usually done pretty well with no name receivers so I don't think it is ludicrous to mention him with those guys.

I would go
Brady
Manning
Palmer


Then
McNabb
Brees...
I'd say he's a touch below Peyton, but way ahead of Brady. As Jaws said, you can't blame the team a qb plays on, for saying a qb isn't elite.......Brady as i've said a hundred times already has always finished closer to the middle of the pack each year than near the top of the list. On such great teams Brady has played for he still has a career rating of 88 and has only had 1 4000 yard season.....Carson in only 3 years playing has 2 years where he threw over 3800 yards.....Brady has only done that once in 7 years

Brady has also had his highest season of TD's at 28....his career high, while Carson has thrown that much or more in 2 of his 3 years. Carson also has a higher compl % for his career than Brady.

Brady also has a career high rating for a season of 92, Carson has surpassed that in 2 of his 3 years playing thus far.

Sorry, SB victories tells me you have a great team....not neccessarily a great QB. now don't get me wrong, Brady will get in the HOF, i mean Bradshaw did it for his team winning multiple SB's for him...Brady will benefit the same....but If i had a choice of starting a new franchise i'd take carson over Brady hands down.

[nkubengalsfan85]

Man, I really don't Kornheiser. He really has no idea how to call the game he's watching. I say they need to clean house AGAIN at MNF and get some announcers that aren't so freaking lame and scatterbrained, IF there are any out there.

[calell83]

I'd say he's a touch below Peyton, but way ahead of Brady. As Jaws said, you can't blame the team a qb plays on, for saying a qb isn't elite.......Brady as i've said a hundred times already has always finished closer to the middle of the pack each year than near the top of the list. On such great teams Brady has played for he still has a career rating of 88 and has only had 1 4000 yard season.....Carson in only 3 years playing has 2 years where he threw over 3800 yards.....Brady has only done that once in 7 years

Brady has also had his highest season of TD's at 28....his career high, while Carson has thrown that much or more in 2 of his 3 years. Carson also has a higher compl % for his career than Brady.

Brady also has a career high rating for a season of 92, Carson has surpassed that in 2 of his 3 years playing thus far.

Sorry, SB victories tells me you have a great team....not neccessarily a great QB. now don't get me wrong, Brady will get in the HOF, i mean Bradshaw did it for his team winning multiple SB's for him...Brady will benefit the same....but If i had a choice of starting a new franchise i'd take carson over Brady hands down.

You have a valid point, but it is ahrd to use stats to completly prove something. Many college QB's put up recidulous numbers, like that guy from Hawaii, what was it 56 touchdowns or something.. Anyway, No one thought him a top Qb

Also, remember the Patriots D is better then the Bengals and so Brady doesn't have to get as many yards or touchdowns. just saying..

[The Bat]

You have a valid point, but it is ahrd to use stats to completly prove something. Many college QB's put up recidulous numbers, like that guy from Hawaii, what was it 56 touchdowns or something.. Anyway, No one thought him a top Qb

Also, remember the Patriots D is better then the Bengals and so Brady doesn't have to get as many yards or touchdowns. just saying..
Yes, we remember David Klingler... :wacko:

[34inXXIII]

If i had a choice of starting a new franchise i'd take carson over Brady hands down.
While Carson has Brady statistically and likely always will, debating whom you'd start a franchise with is a little different. After all, the most important thing to any franchise should be winning. He may not be a prototypical quarterback like Palmer or Peyton, but he's hardly Trent Dilfer either. Brady has been expected to make big plays in big situations and has often come through. He's proven that he can quarterback a team to multiple championships (even with less than superb receivers and, at times, an average running game). Isn't that what you want your franchise QB to do?

[doctorhook18]

Did anyone notice the debate between Jaws and Korn-hole-heiser? Jaws firmly believes Palmer is an elite QB and the only other elites he said were Brady and Peyton Manning.

Kornheiser grilled him about others (Brees and McNabb were the only others he mentioned), but Jaws said only those 3 were the elites.

I immediately thought of this board and the countless QB threads and I just had to laugh.

Jaws is going to sniff anyones jock who is playing the game he is announcing. It stands to reason that yesterday he got a good whiff of Palmer.

I believe that Palmer is an elite QB in this league, but even with elite QB, some are better than others. IMO Brady and Manning are better than Carson. I think the real debate is who is the best! I still have to give a little edge to Brady....3 rings do a lot of talking.

Joe....Kornheiser lives in suburban DC (Maryland to be exact) and lives closer to the Redskins and Ravens. Having lived there myself, I know Philadelphia is 3.5 hours away.....that's with good traffic! But I do agree with you, Palmer is better than McNabb and it's not even close!

[Veteran Leadership]

Jaws is going to sniff anyones jock who is playing the game he is announcing. It stands to reason that yesterday he got a good whiff of Palmer.

I believe that Palmer is an elite QB in this league, but even with elite QB, some are better than others. IMO Brady and Manning are better than Carson. I think the real debate is who is the best! I still have to give a little edge to Brady....3 rings do a lot of talking.

Joe....Kornheiser lives in suburban DC (Maryland to be exact) and lives closer to the Redskins and Ravens. Having lived there myself, I know Philadelphia is 3.5 hours away.....that's with good traffic! But I do agree with you, Palmer is better than McNabb and it's not even close!

As far as the rings go, I think that only works to a certain extent. How many second chances has Brady gotten from his defense? To be blunt, I think the Patriots would have been a far better team if Manning was their QB then Brady. Brady also has the luxury of having a defense so he doesn't have to go out and try to win the game, that makes a huge difference.

[CalSteeler]

Well, I guess that must mean that we can't consider Marino an elite QB then either. :rolleyes:

Yeah he has, he's won a playoff game, more than one even.

[34inXXIII]

As far as the rings go, I think that only works to a certain extent. How many second chances has Brady gotten from his defense? To be blunt, I think the Patriots would have been a far better team if Manning was their QB then Brady. Brady also has the luxury of having a defense so he doesn't have to go out and try to win the game, that makes a huge difference.
What did Manning win before his defense started playing at a championship level? Last year, the Colts had the #1 defense in the postseason based on yards allowed and #2 in points allowed per game despite the only team to play 4 games. That's better than the Bears, Ravens, Chargers and Patriots.

There's no debating the performance Manning put on in the AFC Championship game against New England. It was definitely special. However, make no mistake about it - the Colts won the Super Bowl with defense.

[JS-Steelerfan]

nah he does....his best friend has been Mike Wilbon for years and years, they work together and Mike has always been a huge Ohilly fan and has rubbed off on Kornheiser....plus a ton of new york natives are philly fans...philly is pretty close to new york. My wife's family is from there and are all philly fans big time. So he could of been a philly fan growing up. He alwasy loved Jaws, who played for philly too remember.

I wouldn't bet the farm on it, but I think you might be wrong again, Joe. Wilbon's from Chicago and if I'm not mistaken, he's a huge Bulls, Bears, and Cubs fan.

[Whatever]

Wilbon is from Chicago,although I thought he was a Cubs fan. Either way,he's got an EXTREME hard-on for McNabb. I wouldn't be surprised if all Kornheiser's "pushing" for McNabb was actually him having some fun at Wilbon's expense.

[Buckeyehitman]

Kornheiser wasn't brought in for his football knowledge, he was brought in for the same reason they brought Dennis Miller in once upon a time. He's there for levity and to keep the booth lighthearted and to start conversation. He really doesn't have to know anything about football, but he knows more than his mouth would indicate.

Besides don't forget that no one was really focusing on the game...they were too busy with visiting Lemiwinks up Vick's arse

http://www.grannygear.com/Assets/Images/Races/Moab/2003/The_Lemmiwinks_Experience.jpg

[JS-Steelerfan]

Wilbon is from Chicago,although I thought he was a Cubs fan. Either way,he's got an EXTREME hard-on for McNabb. I wouldn't be surprised if all Kornheiser's "pushing" for McNabb was actually him having some fun at Wilbon's expense.

Yeah, I edited my post - apparently at around the same time you were making this one - to indicate that. Sorry for the confusion!

[Joe from Florence]

I wouldn't bet the farm on it, but I think you might be wrong again, Joe. Wilbon's from Chicago and if I'm not mistaken, he's a huge Bulls, Bears, and Cubs fan.
you could be right.....i do know tony has always been a huge eagles fan though.
It may have to do with him growing up in new york.

[Veteran Leadership]

What did Manning win before his defense started playing at a championship level? Last year, the Colts had the #1 defense in the postseason based on yards allowed and #2 in points allowed per game despite the only team to play 4 games. That's better than the Bears, Ravens, Chargers and Patriots.

There's no debating the performance Manning put on in the AFC Championship game against New England. It was definitely special. However, make no mistake about it - the Colts won the Super Bowl with defense.

I disagree, the Colts won the superbowl based off of the offense. Look at all the rushing yards they had 34, they where just busting the Bears up. And while Manning started off shaky, he had several good drives, and don't forget about that great pass for a touchdown to Reggie Wayne. I will give you the Baltimore game was won entirely based on the Colts defense though.

[Veteran Leadership]

Wilbon is from Chicago,although I thought he was a Cubs fan. Either way,he's got an EXTREME hard-on for McNabb. I wouldn't be surprised if all Kornheiser's "pushing" for McNabb was actually him having some fun at Wilbon's expense.

If by "extreme hard on" you mean Wilbon defends one of the best QB in the game that rarely gets the respect he deserves then you would be spot on.

[calell83]

McNabb is good when not hurt..He was unstoppable last year until a gentle push tore up his knee...

[34inXXIII]

I disagree, the Colts won the superbowl based off of the offense. Look at all the rushing yards they had 34, they where just busting the Bears up. And while Manning started off shaky, he had several good drives, and don't forget about that great pass for a touchdown to Reggie Wayne. I will give you the Baltimore game was won entirely based on the Colts defense though.
By no means am I saying their offense was bad, but they weren't any better than in previous playoff runs.

The 2006 Super Bowl champion Colts averaged 395.2 yards & 26.2 points in 4 postseason games. In 2004, the Colts averaged 403 & 26 (2 games). in 2003, 406.3 & 31 (3 games). Those numbers weren't winning them championships then, but they did now? No, it was the defense....

The 2006 Super Bowl champion Colts averaged 238.5 yards allowed & 16.2 points against in 4 postseason games. In 2004, the Colts averaged 331.5 & 22 (2 games). In 2003, 359.7 and 21.7 (3 games).

The Colts have become so identified for their ridiculously high-powered, precision offense that it's easy to overlook the role of the defense in their championship run.

[Joe from Florence]

I disagree, the Colts won the superbowl based off of the offense. Look at all the rushing yards they had 34, they where just busting the Bears up. And while Manning started off shaky, he had several good drives, and don't forget about that great pass for a touchdown to Reggie Wayne. I will give you the Baltimore game was won entirely based on the Colts defense though.
There is no way in the world you can say the Colts success in the post season last year was because of their offense. Did you forget how bad Peyton played in the playoff games?
I'll give you a reminder
1st playoff game against the Chiefs Peyton had 1 TD and 3 INT's QB Rating 71
2nd Game against the Ravens Peyton had 0 TD's and 2 INT's QB Rating 39
3rd Game against NE Peyton had 1 TD and 1 INT and a rating of 79
for a combined playoff rating of a whopping 66
he had a TD to INT ratio in the playoffs leading up to the SB of 2 TD's to 6 INT's

Sorry my friend but 34 was right non the money...the Colts Defense is what got them the ring last year, not Peyton in the playoffs. Peyton was horrible in the playoffs

[calell83]

There is no way in the world you can say the Colts success in the post season last year was because of their offense. Did you forget how bad Peyton played in the playoff games?
I'll give you a reminder
1st playoff game against the Chiefs Peyton had 1 TD and 3 INT's QB Rating 71
2nd Game against the Ravens Peyton had 0 TD's and 2 INT's QB Rating 39
3rd Game against NE Peyton had 1 TD and 1 INT and a rating of 79
for a combined playoff rating of a whopping 66
he had a TD to INT ratio in the playoffs leading up to the SB of 2 TD's to 6 INT's

Sorry my friend but 34 was right non the money...the Colts Defense is what got them the ring last year, not Peyton in the playoffs. Peyton was horrible in the playoffs

You are correct Sir

[philhos]

You are correct Sir

http://www.herburban.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/mcmahon.jpg

[BobGeeFromPGH]

Yea they did....Tony Kornheiser showed the world that he knows nothing about the game he announces. He is like Chris Berman...jumps on the bandwagon of any player that had 1 good year most recently.......Tony questioned Jaws saying Carson was better than McNabb (remember Tony is a philly guy, lives close to philly and always pushes the eagles) and Brees who had 1 pretty good year, last year....so that automatically makes Tony think he is great. Brees has a career rating of 87...pretty good rating, but not one that would make him the best qb in the game nor even in the top 3. Ben has a better career rating than Brees

Jaws pretty much shut Tony up and it was great.

WHAT adds insult to injury is to remember where Jaws played...the eagles...But anyone watching Peyton, Brady and Palmer, how could they not see how great these Qb's have been thwe last 3 seasons????

The AFC QB'S (these 3 in particular)...seem to be the 3 best in the whole NFL...yes Mcnabb and Brees are good QB's but they are not ebven close to the afforemention QB's

[Joe from Florence]

WHAT adds insult to injury is to remember where Jaws played...the eagles...But anyone watching Peyton, Brady and Palmer, how could they not see how great these Qb's have been thwe last 3 seasons????

The AFC QB'S (these 3 in particular)...seem to be the 3 best in the whole NFL...yes Mcnabb and Brees are good QB's but they are not ebven close to the afforemention QB's
yea, and i'd have to say in a couple years i wouldn't be surprised if Phillip Rivers starts creeping up there. He just plays smart and should be another AFC qb to add to the list.

[doctorhook18]

What did Manning win before his defense started playing at a championship level? Last year, the Colts had the #1 defense in the postseason based on yards allowed and #2 in points allowed per game despite the only team to play 4 games. That's better than the Bears, Ravens, Chargers and Patriots.

There's no debating the performance Manning put on in the AFC Championship game against New England. It was definitely special. However, make no mistake about it - the Colts won the Super Bowl with defense.


I bet you couldn't believe you were actually typing that last sentence.....I know I still can't believe it.

[doctorhook18]

yea, and i'd have to say in a couple years i wouldn't be surprised if Phillip Rivers starts creeping up there. He just plays smart and should be another AFC qb to add to the list.


Eli Manning acting like a baby when he got drafted there was the best thing that could have happened to that franchise.

[Buckeyehitman]

Eli Manning acting like a baby when he got drafted there was the best thing that could have happened to that franchise.

Not to take away from Phillip Rivers, but I'm sure that if Eli had gone to the Chargers he would be doing as well as Rivers is doing now.

It's the stress of New York and you have to admit that the talent in San Diego is better than that of the Giants.

[Joe from Florence]

Not to take away from Phillip Rivers, but I'm sure that if Eli had gone to the Chargers he would be doing as well as Rivers is doing now.

It's the stress of New York and you have to admit that the talent in San Diego is better than that of the Giants.
yep the chargers have a ton more talent....which only proves the fact that Eli is a dumbarse who i wouldn't want playing for my team. Refusing to play for a team that was on the verge of turning it around....i mean look who they had at the time and all. compare that to who the giants had and it was a clear cut choice at the time which team could turn it around sooner. just look at the coaches at the time, that alone should of gave him a hint who he should play for.

But his idocy only makes it more gratifying watching him fail year after year.

[Rayne]

yep the chargers have a ton more talent....which only proves the fact that Eli is a dumbarse who i wouldn't want playing for my team. Refusing to play for a team that was on the verge of turning it around....i mean look who they had at the time and all. compare that to who the giants had and it was a clear cut choice at the time which team could turn it around sooner. just look at the coaches at the time, that alone should of gave him a hint who he should play for.

But his idocy only makes it more gratifying watching him fail year after year.

I agree all the way around. Were his last name anything but, "Manning", he wouldn't have been drafted until the 2nd round.

He came into this league acting like a spoiled brat, and he ended up having all his mistakes magnified because he's in the media capitol of the world - New York.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.