A sign of the times...

[Mountaineer Bengal]

Now, I'm 15 years old...and i know things can't have always been like this. Me and my friend were just sitting around flipping through channels and CNN comes up and the headline is "terrorist plot to bomb JFK" followed by stories of more deaths in Iraq...but thats not the sad part...the sad part is neither of us even flinched, and to us its another day another story. I'm not naive and i know people die every day and bad things happen, but to not even be affected by it at my age or even be driven to do something about it. Why are people so stupid? Why can't everyone just freakin get along? I'm not trying to take a side because one hand i think anyone who wants to kill someone because there different is in fact evil (which has nothing to do with the fact that they are islamic, i am a self proclaimed athiest) but i also think that a government who uses sympathy drawn from a horrific event to invade a country that had nothing to do with that event to get oil is also evil. What happened to mankind? When did it happen? Is there a god? If so why is he doing this? Is it just the fall of a people who evolved and and are now at there stopping point? Don't get me wrong I'm not going crazy over all this I'd just like to hear some views on life, humanity, philosophy and exsistence in general.
( kind of a loaded thread huh...)

[ThePekoSquad]

Now, I'm 15 years old...and i know things can't have always been like this. Me and my friend were just sitting around flipping through channels and CNN comes up and the headline is "terrorist plot to bomb JFK" followed by stories of more deaths in Iraq...but thats not the sad part...the sad part is neither of us even flinched, and to us its another day another story. I'm not naive and i know people die every day and bad things happen, but to not even be affected by it at my age or even be driven to do something about it. Why are people so stupid? Why can't everyone just freakin get along? I'm not trying to take a side because one hand i think anyone who wants to kill someone because there different is in fact evil (which has nothing to do with the fact that they are islamic, i am a self proclaimed athiest) but i also think that a government who uses sympathy drawn from a horrific event to invade a country that had nothing to do with that event to get oil is also evil. What happened to mankind? When did it happen? Is there a god? If so why is he doing this? Is it just the fall of a people who evolved and and are now at there stopping point? Don't get me wrong I'm not going crazy over all this I'd just like to hear some views on life, humanity, philosophy and exsistence in general.
( kind of a loaded thread huh...)

You are only 15 years old? That is very surprising, you hold yourself very well for a 15 year old.
All of the ?'s have literally no right, and no wrong answers it is all the power of thought and belief.

[USMC/Ret.]

You say "Is there a god? If so why is he doing this?"

As a Christian i would have to say we are living in the end times as predicted in the bible. And this is only going to get worse. Below are a few examples pulled from a website that explain what i am talking about.

Matthew 24:6 "And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end."

Rumors of wars in all areas of the world now occur frequently thanks to instant media coverage and the availability of a multitude of 24-hour news sources.

Matthew 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."
More people have been killed in warfare in this century than at any other time in history. As the death toll rises in the Middle East, more and more countries work feverishly to develop devastating weapons of mass destruction. Add to that the expanding threat of terrorism and unpredictable dictators such as Saddam Hussein, and the potential for the outbreak of war exists in nations, kingdoms and places across the globe.
The website goes on to explain the way these verses play out in todays time as noted above. This is just my opinion as a Christinan and why i think we are in the begininng stages of the end of times.

[jmccracky]

1. Why are people so stupid?-


People are not stupid, per se. Just stubborn in their views.



2. Why can't everyone just freakin get along?

Because of people's different philosophies regarding religion. If people actually listened to, and practiced what almost all religion preaches, then the world would be a much better place. This goes for people who practice Christianity, Muslim, etc...etc.....

3. I'm not trying to take aside because one hand i think anyone who wants to kill someone becausethere different is in fact evil (which has nothing to do with the factthat they are islamic, i am a self proclaimed athiest) but i also thinkthat a government who uses sympathy drawn from a horrific event toinvade a country that had nothing to do with that event to get oil isalso evil.
I agree. Something else besides war has to be done.

4. What happened to mankind? When did it happen?

Actually, mankind has been at war since the beginning of recorded history. In America, violent crime has been way down since the 80s. Now, the information I'm going on is from 2002 through 2005. I have not kept up with it since 2005. I blame the media for reporting only negative stories. This is all we see, so we're more apt to think that the world and the people are getting "worse".

5. Is there agod?
I'm agnostic. So I cannot answer this.

6. If so why is he doing this?
I've asked myself this question over and over. Why would a little child have to suffer? Why would God let someone be murdered in such a horrifying way? People say that God is "PERFECT!". I would think that if God is perfect, then he wouldn't let these things happen. I know the Adam and Eve story that it was MAN's choice to eat the apple...blah blah blah. But this story seems so ridiculous in my eyes. Again, I'm agnostic, so maybe it is true? But if it is, I'd be shocked and dissappointed in God.

7. Is it just the fall of a people whoevolved and and are now at there stopping point? Don't get me wrong I'mnot going crazy over all this I'd just like to hear some views on life,humanity, philosophy and exsistence in general.( kind of a loaded thread huh...)

Hey, nothing wrong with the questions you asked. We're all looking for the same answers, including Atheists, Christians, Buddhists, Agnostics, Muslims, etc....etc.......


****Disclaimer****- I could be wrong about any opinion I might have. Keep an open mind. Listen to religious people, listen to the agnostic people, and listen to anyone who has an opinion. You'll find your own conclusion, but you'll always have questions.

[jmccracky]

You say "Is there a god? If so why is he doing this?"

As a Christian i would have to say we are living in the end times as predicted in the bible. And this is only going to get worse.




People have been saying it's the end of times as predicted by the bible for centuries. Things are not worse than say......500 years ago. Matter of fact, they are WAY better. I'm not putting down your belief, because hey, you could be right, lol! I'm just saying the facts are there that the world was a much worse place than in recent, but distant, history.

[Mountaineer Bengal]

That all falls kind of nice for mankind doesn't it? the all knowing book says it in a generalized statement that could be interpreted to mean anything and theres nothing we can do to stop it, so why try.
What I don't see is what is god's reasoning for creating mankind. The bible says our purpose is to get into heaven and that our whole life is basically a test. Why would god create humans simply to be tested and then have eternal luxury or damnation? If he is real why would he put us through so much without any true evidence that he actually exsists? And I know i'll get the whole "its faith" arguement but why would god want all the people who would blindly follow because they were unwilling to accept the truth that humans are a natural (but meaningful) occurence. (not trying to dis anyone, just ranting)Wouldn't that in some respect make them a little weak minded. It all just sounds kind of ceclical to me. I think society needs to accept the fact that religion is a concept that had to be thought up to keep order in civilization and that it was necessary but now that mankind has evolved we need to invoke a little more common sense into the whole thing and drop all this primitive stuff about heaven and 72 virgins, reincarnation, and all these rituals, holy wars, and anciet laws and accept the fact that a mortal life is in fact a gift and should be treaured and is enough.
Sorry if some of this is a little confusing but I have a hard time getting what I'm thinking into a structured form...lol

[USMC/Ret.]

You say "Is there a god? If so why is he doing this?"

As a Christian i would have to say we are living in the end times as predicted in the bible. And this is only going to get worse.




You say...People have been saying it's the end of times as predicted by the bible for centuries. Things are not worse than say......500 years ago. Matter of fact, they are WAY better. I'm not putting down your belief, because hey, you could be right, lol! I'm just saying the facts are there that the world was a much worse place than in recent, but distant, history.


You are right people have been saying it for years. It's just my opinion and i could be wrong but my faith is what i live bye and wheter the end of times is days, weeks, or even years away in my faith i will continue to believe what i was taught if that makes any sense. No knock on anyone who doesn't believe in God and the bible they way i do, people have always had there own beliefs and views on life. I agree with some of the others that mankind as a whole is screwed up and nothing will change unless we all change in some sort of way.

[jmccracky]

You say "Is there a god? If so why is he doing this?"

As a Christian i would have to say we are living in the end times as predicted in the bible. And this is only going to get worse.




You say...People have been saying it's the end of times as predicted by the bible for centuries. Things are not worse than say......500 years ago. Matter of fact, they are WAY better. I'm not putting down your belief, because hey, you could be right, lol! I'm just saying the facts are there that the world was a much worse place than in recent, but distant, history.


USMC QUOTE- "You are right people have been saying it for years. It's just my opinion and i could be wrong but my faith is what i live bye and wheter the end of times is days, weeks, or even years away in my faith i will continue to believe what i was taught if that makes any sense. No knock on anyone who doesn't believe in God and the bible they way i do, people have always had there own beliefs and views on life. I agree with some of the others that mankind as a whole is screwed up and nothing will change unless we all change in some sort of way."


I can dig it! Discussions like these helps all of us make up our minds, IMO. When I was a Christian, I always thought that God gave us the intelligence to avoid absolute catastrophe. However, the church I went to always told me that we were doomed and the only thing I should do is pray and believe in God. I definitely don't want my daughter believing that philosophy. If she wants to learn about Christianity and read the bible, then I think that is great! However, her going to church, just so some guy/girl can give his own interpretation of the bible, I'm not so keen on. I think that's the problem with a lot of religion. Now, don't get me wrong, there are some great ministers (etc) out there. But I just don't think that anyone who is the main preacher in a church should be put up on a pedestal.

[SnapCount80]

Now, I'm 15 years old...and i know things can't have always been like this. Me and my friend were just sitting around flipping through channels and CNN comes up and the headline is "terrorist plot to bomb JFK" followed by stories of more deaths in Iraq...but thats not the sad part...the sad part is neither of us even flinched, and to us its another day another story. I'm not naive and i know people die every day and bad things happen, but to not even be affected by it at my age or even be driven to do something about it. Why are people so stupid? Why can't everyone just freakin get along? I'm not trying to take a side because one hand i think anyone who wants to kill someone because there different is in fact evil (which has nothing to do with the fact that they are islamic, i am a self proclaimed athiest) but i also think that a government who uses sympathy drawn from a horrific event to invade a country that had nothing to do with that event to get oil is also evil. What happened to mankind? When did it happen? Is there a god? If so why is he doing this? Is it just the fall of a people who evolved and and are now at there stopping point? Don't get me wrong I'm not going crazy over all this I'd just like to hear some views on life, humanity, philosophy and exsistence in general.
( kind of a loaded thread huh...)

I believe the type of desensitization you speak of is a natural human coping mechanism. However, the very fact that you bothered to post a thread about it means that you are affected by the events. Also, questioning whether there is a God would indicate to me that you might in actuality be an Agnostic rather than an Athiest. To understand more about the differences, I would recommend reading up on this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religions)

Personally, I think that if there is a god, he is not directly involved in human affairs. If he did indeed create everything, then why would we be of any more interest to him than the rest of the infinitely vast universe, and all that we are still unaware of. Science has brought about a realization that we are not the center of all and everything, and many preconceived notions about human beings' relationship to God have changed over the years. I was raised Christian and I struggled with several concepts, but I digress. Still, the foundation of love and appreciation towards all people is a fantastic concept to base any faith on, and will be something I carry with me my entire life.

The violence we all see and hear about on a regular basis is, from what I can ascertain, a minority of people deemed religious extremists. The trouble lies in people's unwavering belief and adherence to the literal interpretation of holy books. The belief being that killing non-believers will open the path to an everlasting bliss in the afterlife. Of course, this is nothing new. We need only look back at the Crusades to see another example religious based war... one that lasted nearly 200 years. I believe that people, by and large, are good. There is only a small percentage of "bad" people creating problems, but tragedy tends to make stronger news headlines on CNN. Much like Carson Palmer winning the ProBowl MVP was obscured by the 9 Bengal arrests, the good things in life often get lost behind the bad headlines.

Hey... you asked Mountaineer. [;)]

[Joe F- Cincinnati]

Now, I'm 15 years old...and i know things can't have always been like this. Me and my friend were just sitting around flipping through channels and CNN comes up and the headline is "terrorist plot to bomb JFK" followed by stories of more deaths in Iraq...but thats not the sad part...the sad part is neither of us even flinched, and to us its another day another story. I'm not naive and i know people die every day and bad things happen, but to not even be affected by it at my age or even be driven to do something about it. Why are people so stupid? Why can't everyone just freakin get along? I'm not trying to take a side because one hand i think anyone who wants to kill someone because there different is in fact evil (which has nothing to do with the fact that they are islamic, i am a self proclaimed athiest) but i also think that a government who uses sympathy drawn from a horrific event to invade a country that had nothing to do with that event to get oil is also evil. What happened to mankind? When did it happen? Is there a god? If so why is he doing this? Is it just the fall of a people who evolved and and are now at there stopping point? Don't get me wrong I'm not going crazy over all this I'd just like to hear some views on life, humanity, philosophy and exsistence in general.
( kind of a loaded thread huh...)


Blaming God for the world's problems is a common mistake among non-believers.
In His infinite wisdom God chose to give us a free will, and unfortunately it's that free will that is causing the problems you speak of...certainly not God. A large percentage of the world has turned it's back on God, and in simplistic terms, I believe when a person turns their back on God He "steps back." Again, it goes back to free will.
Every day we're in the midst of a struggle between good and evil. Of course, the phrase "the devil made me do it" has no validity because the enemy cannot make us do anything, but he is always there to provide temptation to sin and to work against God's plan for your life. Fortunately if you surrender yourself to God and serve him, you will be much better protected against the enemy's schemes. This has been my observation with regard to Christians versus our secular counterparts.

[Joe from Florence]

Now, I'm 15 years old...and i know things can't have always been like this. Me and my friend were just sitting around flipping through channels and CNN comes up and the headline is "terrorist plot to bomb JFK" followed by stories of more deaths in Iraq...but thats not the sad part...the sad part is neither of us even flinched, and to us its another day another story. I'm not naive and i know people die every day and bad things happen, but to not even be affected by it at my age or even be driven to do something about it. Why are people so stupid? Why can't everyone just freakin get along? I'm not trying to take a side because one hand i think anyone who wants to kill someone because there different is in fact evil (which has nothing to do with the fact that they are islamic, i am a self proclaimed athiest) but i also think that a government who uses sympathy drawn from a horrific event to invade a country that had nothing to do with that event to get oil is also evil. What happened to mankind? When did it happen? Is there a god? If so why is he doing this? Is it just the fall of a people who evolved and and are now at there stopping point? Don't get me wrong I'm not going crazy over all this I'd just like to hear some views on life, humanity, philosophy and exsistence in general.
( kind of a loaded thread huh...)


Blaming God for the world's problems is a common mistake among non-believers.
In His infinite wisdom God chose to give us a free will, and unfortunately it's that free will that is causing the problems you speak of...certainly not God. A large percentage of the world has turned it's back on God, and in simplistic terms, I believe when a person turns their back on God He "steps back." Again, it goes back to free will.
Every day we're in the midst of a struggle between good and evil. Of course, the phrase "the devil made me do it" has no validity because the enemy cannot make us do anything, but he is always there to provide temptation to sin and to work against God's plan for your life. Fortunately if you surrender yourself to God and serve him, you will be much better protected against the enemy's schemes. This has been my observation with regard to Christians versus our secular counterparts.

bravo....great post....couldn't of said it any better

[USMC/Ret.]

Now, I'm 15 years old...and i know things can't have always been like this. Me and my friend were just sitting around flipping through channels and CNN comes up and the headline is "terrorist plot to bomb JFK" followed by stories of more deaths in Iraq...but thats not the sad part...the sad part is neither of us even flinched, and to us its another day another story. I'm not naive and i know people die every day and bad things happen, but to not even be affected by it at my age or even be driven to do something about it. Why are people so stupid? Why can't everyone just freakin get along? I'm not trying to take a side because one hand i think anyone who wants to kill someone because there different is in fact evil (which has nothing to do with the fact that they are islamic, i am a self proclaimed athiest) but i also think that a government who uses sympathy drawn from a horrific event to invade a country that had nothing to do with that event to get oil is also evil. What happened to mankind? When did it happen? Is there a god? If so why is he doing this? Is it just the fall of a people who evolved and and are now at there stopping point? Don't get me wrong I'm not going crazy over all this I'd just like to hear some views on life, humanity, philosophy and exsistence in general.
( kind of a loaded thread huh...)


Blaming God for the world's problems is a common mistake among non-believers.
In His infinite wisdom God chose to give us a free will, and unfortunately it's that free will that is causing the problems you speak of...certainly not God. A large percentage of the world has turned it's back on God, and in simplistic terms, I believe when a person turns their back on God He "steps back." Again, it goes back to free will.
Every day we're in the midst of a struggle between good and evil. Of course, the phrase "the devil made me do it" has no validity because the enemy cannot make us do anything, but he is always there to provide temptation to sin and to work against God's plan for your life. Fortunately if you surrender yourself to God and serve him, you will be much better protected against the enemy's schemes. This has been my observation with regard to Christians versus our secular counterparts.

bravo....great post....couldn't of said it any better

I second that, great post Joe much better than the way i tried to explain it.

[schamrock bengal]

This is a great topic and was thinking about this a little bit last night. One of the biggest problems I see in the world comes down to the most basic principle: love thy neighbor. As a Christain, I was tought that it is the most important commandment and is central to many other religious beliefs. Easy enough concept, but happens to be the hardest one for people to practice. What happens when your neighbor does not love you?

[kywcat]

I spent the first 30 years of my life as a devout Christian. I have studied the Bible indepth and have taken many courses involving Christianity and the religions of the world. You can say though that I have lost my faith and now consider myself more of an agnostic. I do not have any problem with relion other than what religious leaders bear down on their followers and especially when that leads to violence. I applaud you for wanting to look at the world's problems and search for meaning and/or a resolution to them at a relatively young age.
I feel that the amount of violence and destruction in the world today is on par with our technology and the "shrinking" of the earth. In centuries past two nations would fight and would only impact the two. As manking has developed the means to travel, communicate, and trade with everyone on the entire planet it becomes more complex when disagreements arise. If one country attacks another it can affect the vital trade of several other countries. The technology being employed to fight with has escalated to kill more and more with more and more ease. A small fight in the far past may have killed 10's but now hundreds or thousands die.
It is my hope that as the world becomes more close nit and very survival of our species depends on what everyone on the planet does that calmer heads will eventually prevail. But I am not holding my breath.

[34inXXIII]

As a Christian i would have to say we are living in the end times as predicted in the bible. And this is only going to get worse. Below are a few examples pulled from a website that explain what i am talking about.
Matthew 24:6 "And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end."

Rumors of wars in all areas of the world now occur frequently thanks to instant media coverage and the availability of a multitude of 24-hour news sources.

Matthew 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."

More people have been killed in warfare in this century than at any other time in history. As the death toll rises in the Middle East, more and more countries work feverishly to develop devastating weapons of mass destruction. Add to that the expanding threat of terrorism and unpredictable dictators such as Saddam Hussein, and the potential for the outbreak of war exists in nations, kingdoms and places across the globe.
The website goes on to explain the way these verses play out in todays time as noted above. This is just my opinion as a Christinan and why i think we are in the begininng stages of the end of times.
As has been pointed out in this thread already, much of this has been going on throughout history. All I wanted to add is in regards to the statement that "more people have been killed in warfare in this century than at any other time in history". What that simple statement alone does not take into account is that more people coexist on this planet now than any time previously. If the degree of warfare remains constant and there are more people to affect, of course more people will be killed.
Also, I want to add a point about Joe's comment. I, too, am an athiest, but I'm no fan of those that blame god for any of the world's problems, whether of a personal or global nature (not that I'm saying anyone in this thread is doing that). It's yet another means of people deflecting accountability instead of simply being responsible human beings.

[Steely_J]

Now, I'm 15 years old...and i know things can't have always been like this. Me and my friend were just sitting around flipping through channels and CNN comes up and the headline is "terrorist plot to bomb JFK" followed by stories of more deaths in Iraq...but thats not the sad part...the sad part is neither of us even flinched, and to us its another day another story. I'm not naive and i know people die every day and bad things happen, but to not even be affected by it at my age or even be driven to do something about it. Why are people so stupid? Why can't everyone just freakin get along? I'm not trying to take a side because one hand i think anyone who wants to kill someone because there different is in fact evil (which has nothing to do with the fact that they are islamic, i am a self proclaimed athiest) but i also think that a government who uses sympathy drawn from a horrific event to invade a country that had nothing to do with that event to get oil is also evil. What happened to mankind? When did it happen? Is there a god? If so why is he doing this? Is it just the fall of a people who evolved and and are now at there stopping point? Don't get me wrong I'm not going crazy over all this I'd just like to hear some views on life, humanity, philosophy and exsistence in general.
( kind of a loaded thread huh...)


The times are changing. I for one don't see our shock-factor as an indicator of those changes. You will only be shocked by something that doesn't happen often. For instance, if I were to say my sister was pregnant and married by age 15, people would be be shocked in 2007.. not in 1707 though, when the average life span was lower.

What we are seeing now is a major shift in history. Technology and science is moving at a faster rate now than any other time in our history,.. and isn't slowing down.

We've seen wars fought over territory, trade routes, spices, religion... and most recently, energy. The rate at which technology is advancing will post a time very soon (in most of our lifetimes) where nations can be self reliant on mass energy needs. All of the sudden we're going to need to find something else to fight about. Information? Communication wars? Who knows...

The optimist in me wants to hope that wars will be a thing of the past after energy is readily available and cheap to produce. The pecimist in me fears it will give our enemies better means of carrying out vengeful attacks on our homeland.

Have we really changed? Maybe our ethics are different, morals have shifted,.. we're politically correct (whatever that means) Deep down though, how much have we realy come along? Every generation of man has been arrogant enough to assume that judgement day is coming in their lifetime, just has a different way of saying it. How is terrorist attacks any more or less shocking today, than the mass genocide of the Jews by Nazi Germany 70 years ago? They're not. Different shells, same evil little turtle (http://newton-i.usefilm.com/images/4/7/7/1/4771/1221628-tn.jpg). The real question is,.. what will we fight over next? When will we just run out of reasons to fight major wars? Instead of fearing why we have changed,.. maybe we should be fearing why we really haven't.

[toyota24]

Now, I'm 15 years old...and i know things can't have always been like this. Me and my friend were just sitting around flipping through channels and CNN comes up and the headline is "terrorist plot to bomb JFK" followed by stories of more deaths in Iraq...but thats not the sad part...the sad part is neither of us even flinched, and to us its another day another story. I'm not naive and i know people die every day and bad things happen, but to not even be affected by it at my age or even be driven to do something about it. Why are people so stupid? Why can't everyone just freakin get along? I'm not trying to take a side because one hand i think anyone who wants to kill someone because there different is in fact evil (which has nothing to do with the fact that they are islamic, i am a self proclaimed athiest) but i also think that a government who uses sympathy drawn from a horrific event to invade a country that had nothing to do with that event to get oil is also evil. What happened to mankind? When did it happen? Is there a god? If so why is he doing this? Is it just the fall of a people who evolved and and are now at there stopping point? Don't get me wrong I'm not going crazy over all this I'd just like to hear some views on life, humanity, philosophy and exsistence in general.
( kind of a loaded thread huh...)


Blaming God for the world's problems is a common mistake among non-believers.
In His infinite wisdom God chose to give us a free will, and unfortunately it's that free will that is causing the problems you speak of...certainly not God. A large percentage of the world has turned it's back on God, and in simplistic terms, I believe when a person turns their back on God He "steps back." Again, it goes back to free will.
Every day we're in the midst of a struggle between good and evil. Of course, the phrase "the devil made me do it" has no validity because the enemy cannot make us do anything, but he is always there to provide temptation to sin and to work against God's plan for your life. Fortunately if you surrender yourself to God and serve him, you will be much better protected against the enemy's schemes. This has been my observation with regard to Christians versus our secular counterparts.

Not to be a di**, Joe, but something in your post makes little sense to me. How can a "non-believer" blame God for anything and still be a non believer? That's like me blaming my imaginary dragon for eating my workboots. Conversely, in the aftermath of Katrina, I heard several co-workers discuss the fact that their preacher had told his congregation that the hurricane was God's wrath for all of the homosexuals, gambling and drinking going on in New Orleans. I also heard the good Revs. Robertson and Falwell toss around the idea that 911 was punishment meted out by God on America for harboring pagans, gays, etc. To be fair, it isn't just non believers that put the blame on God.
Point is, if your saying God is responsible for these tragedies, the state of the world in general, you're not a non believer as you have acknowledged at least that there is a God to blame. I certainly consider myself a non believer in the Christian God, and can honestly say I've never blamed him for anything. If I did and still claimed to be agnostic, I may need to be medicated or institutionalized.

[Alias]

That all falls kind of nice for mankind doesn't it? the all knowing book says it in a generalized statement that could be interpreted to mean anything and theres nothing we can do to stop it, so why try.
What I don't see is what is god's reasoning for creating mankind. The bible says our purpose is to get into heaven and that our whole life is basically a test. Why would god create humans simply to be tested and then have eternal luxury or damnation? If he is real why would he put us through so much without any true evidence that he actually exsists? And I know i'll get the whole "its faith" arguement but why would god want all the people who would blindly follow because they were unwilling to accept the truth that humans are a natural (but meaningful) occurence. (not trying to dis anyone, just ranting)Wouldn't that in some respect make them a little weak minded. It all just sounds kind of ceclical to me. I think society needs to accept the fact that religion is a concept that had to be thought up to keep order in civilization and that it was necessary but now that mankind has evolved we need to invoke a little more common sense into the whole thing and drop all this primitive stuff about heaven and 72 virgins, reincarnation, and all these rituals, holy wars, and anciet laws and accept the fact that a mortal life is in fact a gift and should be treaured and is enough.
Sorry if some of this is a little confusing but I have a hard time getting what I'm thinking into a structured form...lol

The Bible doesn't actually say that God intended life to be a test. I mean read it yourself, but from what I've read, God created us because he wanted to. End of story. God wants every person to love him and follow him, but only by their own choice (which makes sense...forced love isnt real or meaningful in any way). If you really want me to go into a history of the fall of mankind and stuff I'll gladly do it, but you're right. There's a lot more to it, but it (at its most basic) comes down to Adam and Eve and that tree. God gave them the options of obeying him and enjoying a personal relationship with him, or disobeying and cutting that relationship off. This, like you said, would be the reason I would give for mankind falling to the point that we have (the accumulated result of sin, if you will).
Now for those of you who still ask "why does he let it happen," or "why would a loving God send people to he ll." God lets it happen because he wants to give us a choice between right and wrong. He doesnt want a bunch of robots doing the right thing because they are forced to (nor would I, I would think). As for the he ll question. God intended he ll for satan and his followers. God is holy (meaning set apart) and perfect, and just. This means that God cannot sin nor tolerate it, and that wrongdoing must be punished. There you have God as the old testament describes him (in a very very abridged, nut shell sort of way). Now the thing that separates Christianity from Judaism is Jesus Christ, and this is actually the answer to the he ll question. God provided a way out of he ll. As said before, God cant sin or tolerate it, and wrongs have to be punished. Heck, even if you dont believe the Bible, you know that wrongdoing has negative consequences and deserves punishment. Jesus, God in the flesh, took the punishment in our place, and because of that, we now have a way out of the he ll that we doomed ourselves to. Really, it's a gift from God that we even have a chance to escape that fate. The only difference between christians and the rest of humanity is that christians accept that gift, and have decided to devote their lives (or at least attempt to devote their lives, i think) to loving, worshipping, and following God.
If you have any questions, or if any of that was unclear or confusing, just ask, or send me a private message or something. Feel free to challenge what I said, too. If I don't have an answer, I promise I'll do some research to find one.

*edit* As for the lack of evidence you mentioned. There is a lot of archaeological, geological, and biological evidence to support the Bible's truthfulness as far as history is concerned. That and textual evidence from other writings and within the Bible itself (obviously, lol).

[kywcat]

That all falls kind of nice for mankind doesn't it? the all knowing book says it in a generalized statement that could be interpreted to mean anything and theres nothing we can do to stop it, so why try.
What I don't see is what is god's reasoning for creating mankind. The bible says our purpose is to get into heaven and that our whole life is basically a test. Why would god create humans simply to be tested and then have eternal luxury or damnation? If he is real why would he put us through so much without any true evidence that he actually exsists? And I know i'll get the whole "its faith" arguement but why would god want all the people who would blindly follow because they were unwilling to accept the truth that humans are a natural (but meaningful) occurence. (not trying to dis anyone, just ranting)Wouldn't that in some respect make them a little weak minded. It all just sounds kind of ceclical to me. I think society needs to accept the fact that religion is a concept that had to be thought up to keep order in civilization and that it was necessary but now that mankind has evolved we need to invoke a little more common sense into the whole thing and drop all this primitive stuff about heaven and 72 virgins, reincarnation, and all these rituals, holy wars, and anciet laws and accept the fact that a mortal life is in fact a gift and should be treaured and is enough.
Sorry if some of this is a little confusing but I have a hard time getting what I'm thinking into a structured form...lol

The Bible doesn't actually say that God intended life to be a test. I mean read it yourself, but from what I've read, God created us because he wanted to. End of story. God wants every person to love him and follow him, but only by their own choice (which makes sense...forced love isnt real or meaningful in any way). If you really want me to go into a history of the fall of mankind and stuff I'll gladly do it, but you're right. There's a lot more to it, but it (at its most basic) comes down to Adam and Eve and that tree. God gave them the options of obeying him and enjoying a personal relationship with him, or disobeying and cutting that relationship off. This, like you said, would be the reason I would give for mankind falling to the point that we have (the accumulated result of sin, if you will).
Now for those of you who still ask "why does he let it happen," or "why would a loving God send people to he ll." God lets it happen because he wants to give us a choice between right and wrong. He doesnt want a bunch of robots doing the right thing because they are forced to (nor would I, I would think). As for the he ll question. God intended he ll for satan and his followers. God is holy (meaning set apart) and perfect, and just. This means that God cannot sin nor tolerate it, and that wrongdoing must be punished. There you have God as the old testament describes him (in a very very abridged, nut shell sort of way). Now the thing that separates Christianity from Judaism is Jesus Christ, and this is actually the answer to the he ll question. God provided a way out of he ll. As said before, God cant sin or tolerate it, and wrongs have to be punished. Heck, even if you dont believe the Bible, you know that wrongdoing has negative consequences and deserves punishment. Jesus, God in the flesh, took the punishment in our place, and because of that, we now have a way out of the he ll that we doomed ourselves to. Really, it's a gift from God that we even have a chance to escape that fate. The only difference between christians and the rest of humanity is that christians accept that gift, and have decided to devote their lives (or at least attempt to devote their lives, i think) to loving, worshipping, and following God.
If you have any questions, or if any of that was unclear or confusing, just ask, or send me a private message or something. Feel free to challenge what I said, too. If I don't have an answer, I promise I'll do some research to find one.

*edit* As for the lack of evidence you mentioned. There is a lot of archaeological, geological, and biological evidence to support the Bible's truthfulness as far as history is concerned. That and textual evidence from other writings and within the Bible itself (obviously, lol).

The problem with trying to explain the beliefs of Christianity is there are many interpretations. Just to show my point in regards to your reasons why bad things happen I could give other reasons.
God created Adam and Eve with the command to be fruitful and multiply. This shows his purpose as they were perfect he wanted to have the entire earth filled with perfect humans worshiping him. However Satan came and deceived Eve and Adam willingly went along and disobeyed God's command and lost that perfection on that day they began to die. They passed that imperfection on to the rest of mandkind. Jesus' sacrifice was the perfect life given back to God that Adam lost.
The story of Job shows why bad things happen. Satan claimed that the only reason people serve God is because of the rewards and if they were treated badly mandkind would turn away from God. So God allowed Satan to destroy Job's life in order to prove that some would remain loyal. Job remained loyal to God even though he thought God was causing his problems. The story is set so we understand that if we remain loyal to God even though Satan does bad things to us we will have a rich reward in the end.
Hell is not the home for Satan and a place for eternal torment as the book of Revelation says that it is destroyed after Armegeddon.
The Bible is a masterful literary work but one I do take with a grain of salt not as literal fact. Did you know that the story of Noah has a much older version in Babylonian history called the epic of Gilgamesh. It is the exact same story only 100 - 200 years older. Perhaps the Israelites borrowed the story while in captivity?

[Alias]

Yeah I always liked Gilgamesh, but did you also know that most of the earth is covered with marine fossils? Even on mountain tops. Of course you could come up with other explanations for that, but a global flood would definitely have done the trick. I also think (this one I dont have much back up for...just thought about it one day) that tectonic plate shifts could easily be the result of the earth still trying to recover from that catastrophe. I can't prove that, because I have no measurement tools to see exactly how far or in what direction continents are shifting, but until I see such measurements, my thought makes sense. I also think that the fact we find fossilized remains of many creatures all jumbled together would point toward a catastrophe of some sort. We see predators mixed in with families of herbivores. I'm sure people can come up with other ideas about that, but the immediate picture I saw in my mind was of flood waters rising and all these creatures running to the top of a hill to escape it. Only to meet up and die, and have their bones laid out in a jumble.
All that is to say that i can't disregard the flood as pure myth. I can agree that lots of old myths have parallels though. I took a class on mythology in high school and I remember noticing that (though it's been a few years lol). I always thought that so many records, mythological or not, of a great flood would be good evidence that one may have happened.
After saying all that, the story of Noah and all the rest of the first few books of the Bible were written by Moses long after the events actually occured. So I could easily see Noah and his family having kids, spreading out, having more kids, spreading out, creating villages of their own, and all the while telling these stories. Of course there will be similarities over time.

[SnapCount80]

Yeah I always liked Gilgamesh, but did you also know that most of the earth is covered with marine fossils? Even on mountain tops. Of course you could come up with other explanations for that, but a global flood would definitely have done the trick. I also think (this one I dont have much back up for...just thought about it one day) that tectonic plate shifts could easily be the result of the earth still trying to recover from that catastrophe. I can't prove that, because I have no measurement tools to see exactly how far or in what direction continents are shifting, but until I see such measurements, my thought makes sense. I also think that the fact we find fossilized remains of many creatures all jumbled together would point toward a catastrophe of some sort. We see predators mixed in with families of herbivores. I'm sure people can come up with other ideas about that, but the immediate picture I saw in my mind was of flood waters rising and all these creatures running to the top of a hill to escape it. Only to meet up and die, and have their bones laid out in a jumble.
All that is to say that i can't disregard the flood as pure myth. I can agree that lots of old myths have parallels though. I took a class on mythology in high school and I remember noticing that (though it's been a few years lol). I always thought that so many records, mythological or not, of a great flood would be good evidence that one may have happened.
After saying all that, the story of Noah and all the rest of the first few books of the Bible were written by Moses long after the events actually occured. So I could easily see Noah and his family having kids, spreading out, having more kids, spreading out, creating villages of their own, and all the while telling these stories. Of course there will be similarities over time.

I wouldn't exactly call it evidence. Man has made several movies and written many books about extra terrestrial encounters too. It doesn't indicate evidence that it has ever happened. I think the great flood was more likely an account of a natural disaster, not unlike Hurricane Katrina, that grew larger every time the story was told. People have a funny way of enhancing tales of significant past occurances. And after being told enough times, you can only imagine how much the true event has been skewed. Similar to a game of telephone.

The only way you can accept this story as truth in its current state is if you believe it were a miracle instituted by God. Although, given the death of so many people and innocent creatures, I'm not really sure that miracle is the appropriate word. Aside from that, science won't be able to support a literal interpretation of it.

[Alias]

I wouldn't exactly call it evidence. Man has made several movies and written many books about extra terrestrial encounters too. It doesn't indicate evidence that it has ever happened. I think the great flood was more likely an account of a natural disaster, not unlike Hurricane Katrina, that grew larger every time the story was told. People have a funny way of enhancing tales of significant past occurances. And after being told enough times, you can only imagine how much the true event has been skewed. Similar to a game of telephone.

The only way you can accept this story as truth in its current state is if you believe it were a miracle instituted by God. Although, given the death of so many people and innocent creatures, I'm not really sure that miracle is the appropriate word. Aside from that, science won't be able to support a literal interpretation of it.



I didnt really mean that part to be listed as possible factual evidences. Just my thoughts. The only things i meant to list as possible evidences for a flood were the fossil things at the beginning and end of the first paragraph. The last 2 just list my immediate thought processes in response to Noahs flood being compared to the one in Gilgamesh. Sorry if that was confusing.
You have to remember that we all look at the same data when it comes to science. We're just starting with different assumptions (neither of which can be proven). I assume there is a God, a lot of scientific theories (like evolution) assume there isnt one. All we can look at is the evidence, and see how well it ties into that initial assumption.

[SnapCount80]

I wouldn't exactly call it evidence. Man has made several movies and written many books about extra terrestrial encounters too. It doesn't indicate evidence that it has ever happened. I think the great flood was more likely an account of a natural disaster, not unlike Hurricane Katrina, that grew larger every time the story was told. People have a funny way of enhancing tales of significant past occurances. And after being told enough times, you can only imagine how much the true event has been skewed. Similar to a game of telephone.

The only way you can accept this story as truth in its current state is if you believe it were a miracle instituted by God. Although, given the death of so many people and innocent creatures, I'm not really sure that miracle is the appropriate word. Aside from that, science won't be able to support a literal interpretation of it.



I didnt really mean that part to be listed as possible factual evidences. Just my thoughts. The only things i meant to list as possible evidences for a flood were the fossil things at the beginning and end of the first paragraph. The last 2 just list my immediate thought processes in response to Noahs flood being compared to the one in Gilgamesh. Sorry if that was confusing.
You have to remember that we all look at the same data when it comes to science. We're just starting with different assumptions (neither of which can be proven). I assume there is a God, a lot of scientific theories (like evolution) assume there isnt one. All we can look at is the evidence, and see how well it ties into that initial assumption.

Oh, I gotcha.

Actually, there are also some religious philosophies that focus on science and the natural world, yet maintain that an existence of God is still a distinct possibility, if not a probability. The difference between nearly all religions lies in the interpretation of God's involvement with the mortal world. I know Deism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism)and Panthism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism)hold certain beliefs with relation to the afore mentioned philosophies. For me, logic is my best guide. However, I believe in the possibility that God exists simply because something had to create creation. But like you said, the core of any belief is simply assumption. And, to relate this to the orginal post, I can't justify/condone killing based on assumption alone.

On an unrelated note. I love Wikipedia! It's so easy to get infomation, its crazy. For those who have a thirst for knowledge, time tends to slip away when exploring the site. [:)]

[kywcat]

I didnt really mean that part to be listed as possible factual evidences. Just my thoughts. The only things i meant to list as possible evidences for a flood were the fossil things at the beginning and end of the first paragraph. The last 2 just list my immediate thought processes in response to Noahs flood being compared to the one in Gilgamesh. Sorry if that was confusing.
You have to remember that we all look at the same data when it comes to science. We're just starting with different assumptions (neither of which can be proven). I assume there is a God, a lot of scientific theories (like evolution) assume there isnt one. All we can look at is the evidence, and see how well it ties into that initial assumption.

You can believe in evolution and God at the same time.
When I was extremely religious I had considered the fossil thing in the mountains as eveidence to a flood. Then I did more research and found there is not enough water on the planet (assuming all water was removed from the atmosphere) to completely submerge the land on the earth. Secondly it is more reasonable to assume the mountain did not exist in the past and was suddenly thrust in the air as tectonic plates collided bringing the fossils from under the sea with them. For the amount of fossils found in the mountains it is unlikely that they were deposited there over a few months time.
The bible also has great chonology which means that you can determine dates by what is listed there. As such (According to the bible) man has only been on the earth a little over 6000 years and the flood would have been within that time. Soil deposits would show evidence of that but in most of the world it does not mut in the area of the dead sea it shows how as one point it was a fresh water lake. This is also the area for the rise of most civilizations. It is more reasonable to assume the story is a result of a great localized flood that had devastating affects on that area.