Why are you leaving the Church Senator Obama ?

[GoldenArm9]

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN3140531220080601

Why are you leaving the church Senator?
With you being an influential member of the church you could have gone to the deacon board and voiced a complaint about Rev .Wright but apparently you didn't .But instead you chose to sit in the congregation week after week and listen to the anti -american statements.Senator Obama I think if somebody even a pastor was running down my country on daily basis i would be making some waves. Unless you believed in what he was saying ...:hmm:
My former pastor who was far more controversial than yours ever thought about being would have been removed from the pulpit immediately if he had made anti -american remarks ...

[tbone77]

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN3140531220080601

Why are you leaving the church Senator?
With you being an influential member of the church you could have gone to the deacon board and voiced a complaint about Rev .Wright but apparently you didn't .But instead you chose to sit in the congregation week after week and listen to the anti -american statements.Senator Obama I think if somebody even a pastor was running down my country on daily basis i would be making some waves. Unless you believed in what he was saying ...:hmm:
My former pastor who was far more controversial than yours ever thought about being would have been removed from the pulpit immediately if he had made anti -american remarks ...

If you videotaped pastors all around the USA over the course of 20 years, I am sure you could capture 10 seconds of "anti-american" comments by 99% of pastors, especially black pastors who grew up during the Jim Crow years when their folks were lynched and humiliated in public. People like Wright resent the Jim Crow era and you can still see that resentment in the older generations. People like that are not always fond of the government.

Pastors preach about love and compassion and helping the poor. But the capitalist pop culture in America is sometimes rooted in sex, violence, swindling, and hoarding. Therefore you may find some conflict between the church and the government, or the church and pop culture. It's not "anti-american"....It's "american"...separation of church and state, dissent, freedom of speech, etc.

[kingBENGAL]

My god....this..is just...so...horrible...this post just shows me the light....people are still ignorant enough to think that Obama is anti-american<_<

[jamiethelanky]

My god....this..is just...so...horrible...this post just shows me the light....people are still ignorant enough to think that Obama is anti-american<_<
Welcome to the magical world of Goldenarm.

[GoldenArm9]

If you videotaped pastors all around the USA over the course of 20 years, I am sure you could capture 10 seconds of "anti-american" comments by 99% of pastors, especially black pastors who grew up during the Jim Crow years when their folks were lynched and humiliated in public. People like Wright resent the Jim Crow era and you can still see that resentment in the older generations. People like that are not always fond of the government.

Pastors preach about love and compassion and helping the poor. But the capitalist pop culture in America is sometimes rooted in sex, violence, swindling, and hoarding. Therefore you may find some conflict between the church and the government, or the church and pop culture. It's not "anti-american"....It's "american"...separation of church and state, dissent, freedom of speech, etc.
If I'm understanding this comment correctly a politician should not get involved with the church's affairs and vise versa? The last time i checked a pastor or a politician were still American citizens and had right to free speech ...

[BANJAXED]

My god....this..is just...so...horrible...this post just shows me the light....people are still ignorant enough to think that Obama is anti-american<_<

"Blinded by the light, revved up like a deuce, another runner in the night".....

Do do doodoo.... :huh:

[kevin28_1962]

Why are you leaving the church Senator?


It's political. If he wasn't running for Prez I dont think he'd be leaving.

With you being an influential member of the church you could have gone to the deacon board and voiced a complaint about Rev .Wright but apparently you didn't .But instead you chose to sit in the congregation week after week and listen to the anti -american statements.

I've heard my (ex)pastor say anti-american rhetoric. Perhaps it was just me, but I had a hard time bringing up the issue (or any other issue I've had a problem with during his sermon) to my (ex)pastor.

[GoldenArm9]

Well things have away of always working itself out ....

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?id=4978604&page=1

[GoldenArm9]

My video tribute to Sen.Obama ...

http://www.inthesetimes.com/images/28/21/obama.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwnqqj5Q1BU&feature=related

[VCU Rams]

Well things have away of always working itself out ....

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?id=4978604&page=1

Notice how even through all the mudslinging of the article and "doom speak" they still mention that Obama is ahead in the polls.....

Mistakes like this by McCain should have you worried.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajm5JTf7jZs&feature=related

Remember when him and a "liberal democrat" discussed being running mates:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVM8Dhk5w6s

And then there is always McCain's ever present short fuse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSlAJ5hkAC4&feature=related

If you think this guy is going to run a campaign without his own gaffes, then you are very naive GA9.

:thumbsup:

[GoldenArm9]

So what if McCain gets upset ..good for him at least he doesn' t want to cut and run like Murtha and Kerry ...
And at least he isn't a racist like a certain Senator's pastors are ...:Clap:

[VCU Rams]

So what if McCain gets upset ..good for him at least he doesn'twant to cut and run like Murtha and Kerry ...
And at least he isn't a racist like a certain Senator's pastors are ...:Clap:

We all know McCains theories on national defense:

Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAzBxFaio1I

Oh well, I guess the people that work in the bomb building industry won't have to worry about work under McCain. :thumbsup:

[GoldenArm9]

We all know McCains theories on national defense:

Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAzBxFaio1I

Oh well, I guess the people that work in the bomb building industry won't have to worry about work under McCain. :thumbsup:

I love it.. Obama's pastors are doing his campaign in ...don't you love it?:Clap:

[kevin28_1962]

So what if McCain gets upset ..good for him at least he doesn'twant to cut and run like Murtha and Kerry ...
And at least he isn't a racist like a certain Senator's pastors are ...:Clap:

speaking of mudslinging.....

Sometimes I'm embarrassed to call myself a republican, but not more embarrassed if I were a democrat:thumbsup:. I wish there was a candidate that would have the best that both parties have together. But then again that statement there is pretty senseless because what I deem as good aren't deemed good by others...right? right!

[jamiethelanky]

So what if McCain gets upset ..good for him at least he doesn' t want to cut and run like Murtha and Kerry ...
And at least he isn't a racist like a certain Senator's pastors are ...:Clap:
No, his pastor only says that the Holocaust was God's work.

[GoldenArm9]

No, his pastor only says that the Holocaust was God's work.

McCain's pastor is from Arizona not Texas ..try again ...

[kevin28_1962]

McCain's pastor is from Arizona not Texas ..try again ...

I think Jamie was referring to Obama's pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

[jamiethelanky]

No, I was referring to Hagee. Goldenarm, give me this as a straight answer, was Hagee involved in McCain's campaign?

[kevin28_1962]

No, I was referring to Hagee. Goldenarm, give me this as a straight answer, was Hagee involved in McCain's campaign?

sorry bout that. i'm out of the loop here.

[GoldenArm9]

No, I was referring to Hagee. Goldenarm, give me this as a straight answer, was Hagee involved in McCain's campaign?
You said Pastor ....and yes Hagee was involved with McCain but Jewish leaders agreed with him and backed up Hagee so there you go ..keep trying ...

[jamiethelanky]

You said Pastor ....and yes Hagee was involved with McCain but Jewish leaders agreed with him and backed up Hagee so there you go ..keep trying ...
What, Jewish leaders agreed that the Holocaust was caused by God?

I would laugh if what you said wasn't so flagrantly and offensively ignorant.

[GoldenArm9]

What, Jewish leaders agreed that the Holocaust was caused by God?

I would laugh if what you said wasn't so flagrantly and offensively ignorant.

That really hurt .....:rotf::huh:

[jamiethelanky]

That really hurt .....:rotf::huh:
So, are you suggesting Jewish leaders believe God made the Holocaust happen?

[GoldenArm9]

So, are you suggesting Jewish leaders believe God made the Holocaust happen?
Do you really want to talk about this with me since i am a Messianic Jew?:hmm:

[jamiethelanky]

Do you really want to talk about this with me since i am a Messianic Jew?:hmm:
Yes. I do.

Answer my question.

[GoldenArm9]

Yes. I do.

Answer my question.

I think we were blinded by lies that Hitler told ..we as a people never thought that a man could be so evil and we just followed him to our death ...it's hard to fight back when you have no weapons to defend yourself ...and the will of God was done by the Holocaust ...but God destroyed Germany and divided her ...she is not the world power it once was ...

[GoldenArm9]

So, are you suggesting Jewish leaders believe God made the Holocaust happen? I miss read your question and go back and reread my previous threads ...There you have an assignment ...

[jamiethelanky]

I think we were blinded by lies that Hitler told ..we as a people never thought that a man could be so evil and we just followed him to our death ...it's hard to fight back when you have no weapons to defend yourself ...and the will of God was done by the Holocaust ...but God destroyed Germany and divided her ...she is not the world power it once was ...
I don't think God has anything to do with it. Hitler ruled by fear and by military power. Dissenters were shot. A good deal of people escaped but it would have been better had the situation not been created that got Hitler there in the first place.

[jamiethelanky]

You say Jewish leaders agree with Hagee. On what?

[kdubdj]

personally i am glad he is backing away from the church. i want someone that is capable of making his own decesions. plus mabey it is best that he is a little anti american. Id rather have someone like that. that would mean he doesnt like it the way it is and might just do something to change it. Why would we want another person that says they love it the way it is when it is terrible right now. that wont change anything

[barryllium]

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN3140531220080601

Why are you leaving the church Senator?
With you being an influential member of the church you could have gone to the deacon board and voiced a complaint about Rev .Wright but apparently you didn't .But instead you chose to sit in the congregation week after week and listen to the anti -american statements.Senator Obama I think if somebody even a pastor was running down my country on daily basis i would be making some waves. Unless you believed in what he was saying ...:hmm:
My former pastor who was far more controversial than yours ever thought about being would have been removed from the pulpit immediately if he had made anti -american remarks ...

When the initial things came out about Rev. Wright, Obama never defended his actions, but defended the person, saying there was much more to him than what the media was portraying. I actually give Obama credit for coming out and speaking about him the way he did - he was very clear that he was not on board with Rev. Wright's ideals that the media was showing, but say more in the person than that. Believe it or not, GA9, one trait does not define a person - despite your best efforts to prove this.

Now, when this other pastor came in and started mocking Hillary (something I seriously doubt he talked with Obama about before doing) - along with Rev. Wright becoming more vocal in a bad way, increased attention was put on this church. Obama stated that he did not wish to put his church and fellow parishioners under the same magnifying glass as he is while in a presidential campaign, so he disassociated himself with the church. While I do believe there is a political element to him leaving his church, I also respect the other reasons stated, as they make complete sense.

[barryllium]

You said Pastor ....and yes Hagee was involved with McCain but Jewish leaders agreed with him and backed up Hagee so there you go ..keep trying ...

Wrong - Hagee's jewish friends backed him. I've heard nothing positive from Jewish leaders or the Jewish community as a whole.

By the way, didn't McCain actively seek Hagee's endorsement, but then dropped him when this came out? If you are going to knock on Obama for making political moves, you must do the same to McCain.

[barryllium]

personally i am glad he is backing away from the church. i want someone that is capable of making his own decesions. plus mabey it is best that he is a little anti american. Id rather have someone like that. that would mean he doesnt like it the way it is and might just do something to change it. Why would we want another person that says they love it the way it is when it is terrible right now. that wont change anything

For the most part, I agree with what you have to say here. I like that he stuck with the church as long as he did, and I like his reasons for leaving when he did - and I like that he shows the ability to make his own choices as well - not what the media, his party, or the Republican party think he should be doing.

I don't believe Obama to be "anti-american", though. I find him very american, actually. He seems to have a lot of faith in the people of this country, and wants the country as a whole to live up to its untapped potential. Way too many people see pushing for change and improvement to be "anti-american" - I see it as being more american than those that are apathetic and say we cannot criticize this country at all.

[devils advocate]

Germany has been united,perhaps by god's will, too.

What lies did Hitler tell?
I am no expert on the subject,but I recall only one lie,in which he said he would not envade Poland.After this,even if he did lie,who is to blame for believing him?

[GoldenArm9]

Wrong - Hagee's jewish friends backed him. I've heard nothing positive from Jewish leaders or the Jewish community as a whole.

By the way, didn't McCain actively seek Hagee's endorsement, but then dropped him when this came out? If you are going to knock on Obama for making political moves, you must do the same to McCain.

Again McCain was endorsed by a pastor but not his pastor like Obama was ....but Obama could have walked but chose to stay and listen to the rantings week in and week out about how evil America is ...and no i'm not wrong about Hagee ..he has been given honors by the Jewish Community ...
Pastor Hagee was given the "Humanitarian of the Year" award by the San Antonio B'Nai B'Rith Council. It was the first time in the Council’s history that this award has been given to a gentile. Dr. Hagee was also honored with the ZOA Israel Award by U.N. Ambassador Jean Kirkpatrick, with recognition from the Jewish Community of Dallas, Texas. Mayor Kathy Whitmire set aside a special day of honor, declaring Pastor John C. Hagee Day in Houston, Texas.:Clap:

[barryllium]

Again McCain was endorsed by a pastor but not his pastor like Obama was ....but Obama could have walked but chose to stay and listen to the rantings week in and week out about how evil America is ...and no i'm not wrong about Hagee ..he has been given honors by the Jewish Community ...
Pastor Hagee was given the "Humanitarian of the Year" award by the San Antonio B'Nai B'Rith Council. It was the first time in the Council’s history that this award has been given to a gentile. Dr. Hagee was also honored with the ZOA Israel Award by U.N. Ambassador Jean Kirkpatrick, with recognition from the Jewish Community of Dallas, Texas. Mayor Kathy Whitmire set aside a special day of honor, declaring Pastor John C. Hagee Day in Houston, Texas.:Clap:

Hagee was not McCain's pastor, but McCain actively sought (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/23/us/politics/23hagee.html) his endorsement before the anti-Semitic things came out (the remarks were from 1990, I believe, so I find it hard to believe McCain didn't know about them). Regardless, though, McCain found the remarks "deeply offensive and indefensible".

Here's a big issue for me, though. If Hagee is so tight with the Jewish community (all the awards you state are true, and he does seem to have a good relationship with man), why did McCain need to reject his endorsement? Couldn't he have just talked about these things, and shown his good relationship with Jews? No, he flipped over and dropped him like a bad habit - something I am starting to see that he has done on more than many occasions. I find this interesting, because that was a big way that the Republicans attacked John Kerry in 2004, and McCain doesn't seem to be any different. A few months ago, I actually liked McCain - and thought that if Obama didn't win, we'd be OK with McCain. But now, the more I see of him the more I see him changing his position, contradicting himself, and doing what he thinks will make him look better, rather than doing what he sees is right.

Obama, on the other hand, chose to fight for the entire character of Rev. Wright at first - talking about how one aspect of a person does not make the man. He defended this person, rather than throwing him under the bus the second the public negatively reacted. I find this admirable. Rev. Wright continued to dig holes, and then Pfleger came in and did more damage to the reputation of Obama's parish. It came to a point where his church was distracting too much from his true message/stance on the issues, and his campaign was putting undue focus on his church - and it became the right time for him to break away. Even if it was political to a degree, at least Obama actually chooses to stand for people and beliefs for himself, rather than basing things on public perception.