Something that makes me angry.

[Ocho_Cinco85]

How is it that public schools are allowed to teach on other religions such as Buddism, Islam and such but Heavens forbid you teach about Christianity. They make you participate in rituals such as witchcraft but they don't let you pray or bring a Bible. Isn't the sloagan for this country supposed to be "In God we trust"? They come up with excuses like "We don't want to offend muslims or Buddists etc" I'm sorry but if your offended by Christians , thats just to darn bad. This country was built with a Christian foundation and I'll be darned if their gonna let other religons come in our country and take that away from us. I'm not saying that you have to believe in God and Jesus but I am saying that we should be allowed to praise and worship without getting in trouble because some freakin Buddist down the street doesn't approve.




EDIT: I'm not trying to offend anyone thats not Christian. I'm just venting.

[jamiethelanky]

How is it that public schools are allowed to teach on other religions such as Buddism, Islam and such but Heavens forbid you teach about Christianity. They make you participate in rituals such as witchcraft but they don't let you pray or bring a Bible. Isn't the sloagan for this country supposed to be "In God we trust"? They come up with excuses like "We don't want to offend muslims or Buddists etc" I'm sorry but if your offended by Christians , thats just to darn bad. This country was built with a Christian foundation and I'll be darned if their gonna let other religons come in our country and take that away from us. I'm not saying that you have to believe in God and Jesus but I am saying that we should be allowed to praise and worship without getting in trouble because some freakin Buddist down the street doesn't approve.




EDIT: I'm not trying to offend anyone thats not Christian. I'm just venting.
This is where the misunderstanding lies. You are not allowed to preach Christianity, however teaching it's basic history and belief systems is fine, as long as it is in the realm of a religious studies class and other world religions are given a similar shrift.

[busamboy]

How is it that public schools are allowed to teach on other religions such as Buddism, Islam and such but Heavens forbid you teach about Christianity. They make you participate in rituals such as witchcraft but they don't let you pray or bring a Bible. Isn't the sloagan for this country supposed to be "In God we trust"? They come up with excuses like "We don't want to offend muslims or Buddists etc" I'm sorry but if your offended by Christians , thats just to darn bad. This country was built with a Christian foundation and I'll be darned if their gonna let other religons come in our country and take that away from us. I'm not saying that you have to believe in God and Jesus but I am saying that we should be allowed to praise and worship without getting in trouble because some freakin Buddist down the street doesn't approve.




EDIT: I'm not trying to offend anyone thats not Christian. I'm just venting.

We always had Catholic schools!

[jamiethelanky]

We always had Catholic schools!
He did specifically say public schools...

[GoldenArm9]

How is it that public schools are allowed to teach on other religions such as Buddism, Islam and such but Heavens forbid you teach about Christianity. They make you participate in rituals such as witchcraft but they don't let you pray or bring a Bible. Isn't the sloagan for this country supposed to be "In God we trust"? They come up with excuses like "We don't want to offend muslims or Buddists etc" I'm sorry but if your offended by Christians , thats just to darn bad. This country was built with a Christian foundation and I'll be darned if their gonna let other religons come in our country and take that away from us. I'm not saying that you have to believe in God and Jesus but I am saying that we should be allowed to praise and worship without getting in trouble because some freakin Buddist down the street doesn't approve.



EDIT: I'm not trying to offend anyone thats not Christian. I'm just venting.
You hit the nail right on the head my friend ..this country's foundation is built on Christianity and should be the main staple of what is taught in our school systems ...

[Ocho_Cinco85]

You hit the nail right on the head my friend ..this country's foundation is built on Christianity and should be the main staple of what is taught in our school systems ...Thank you.

[warsteiner138]

Well first off; I have been drinking pretty heavily today(full disclosure). But I do not think any religious "dogmas" should be taught.

I do not really think people become religious because of teachings in school beyond age ten. I was raised in a methodist(christian cult? Wesley brothers?); for what ever reason I just did not buy into it.

I mostly just felt it was unfair for people only to reach heaven through Jesus(John 3:16). I know the catholic church now says you can basically be a protestant, Jew or Muslem(and other some Pagan) and get to heaven since Vatican II(look it up if you do not know).

But biblically that does not make since to me.. Also the one church dogma(catholic) does make since to me since jesus started the church.

I think Jesus is a much better founder than say Martin Luther or Charles Wesley. But also it seems if I was Catholic that the church has loss its way since at least the Vatican II(late 60's). the Vatican II is very interesting; I would recommend researching it; especially if your catholic since they change so much.

But if the catholic church was right back in the day it would mean there has been an antipope for almost 40 years.

I find religion very fascinating; it was of my favorite things to learn about.

Right now it is a horrible catch-22; the bible teaches to stay in the one church that jesus started(catholic).

But the catholic church teaches nothing but apostacle heresy until they can correct it with a true pope.

One of the foundations of christianity is that you can not go to heaven except through christ. Which the catholic church has not followed for years.


But also the bible states

We are One Family in Christ in Heaven and on Earth
Eph. 3:14-15- we are all one family ("Catholic") in heaven and on earth, united together, as children of the Father, through Jesus Christ. Our brothers and sisters who have gone to heaven before us are not a different family. We are one and the same family. This is why, in the Apostles Creed, we profess a belief in the "communion of saints." There cannot be a "communion" if there is no union. Loving beings, whether on earth or in heaven, are concerned for other beings, and this concern is reflected spiritually through prayers for one another.

Eph. 1:22-23; 5:23-32; Col. 1:18,24 - this family is in Jesus Christ, the head of the body, which is the Church.

1 Cor. 12:12,27; Rom. 12:5; Col. 3:15; Eph. 4:4 - we are the members of the one body of Christ, supernaturally linked together by our partaking of the Eucharist.

Rom. 8:35-39 - therefore, death does not separate the family of God and the love of Christ. We are still united with each other, even beyond death.

Matt. 17:3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30 - Jesus converses with "deceased" Moses and Elijah. They are more alive than the saints on earth.

Matt. 22:32; Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead. The living on earth and in heaven are one family.

Luke 15:7,10 – if the angels and saints experience joy in heaven over our repentance, then they are still connected to us and are aware of our behavior.

John 15:1-6 - Jesus is the vine and we are the branches. The good branches are not cut off at death. They are alive in heaven.

1 Cor. 4:9 – because we can become a spectacle not only to men, but to angels as well, this indicates that angels are aware of our earthly activity. Those in heaven are connected to those on earth.

1 Cor. 12:26 - when one member suffers, all suffer. When one is honored, all rejoice. We are in this together as one family.

1 Cor 13:12; 1 John 3:2 - now we see in a mirror dimly, but in heaven we see face to face. The saints are more alive than we are!

Heb. 12:1 - we are surrounded by a great glory cloud (shekinah) of witnesses, our family in heaven. We are not separated. The “cloud of witnesses” (nephos marturon) refers to a great amphitheatre with the arena for the runners (us on earth), and many tiers of seats occupied by the saints (in heaven) rising up like a cloud. The “martures” are not mere spectators (“theatai”), but testifiers (witnesses) who testify from their own experience to God’s promises and cheer us on in our race to heaven. They are no less than our family in heaven.

1 Peter 2:9; Rev. 20:6 - we are a royal family of priests by virtue of baptism. We as priests intercede on behalf of each other.

2 Peter 1:4 - since God is the eternal family and we are His children, we are partakers of His divine nature as a united family.

1 Cor. 1:2; Rom. 1:7 - we are called to be saints. Saints refer to both those on earth and in heaven who are in Christ. Proof:

Acts 9:13,32,41; 26:10; 1 Cor. 6:1-2; 14:33; 2 Cor. 1:1; 8:4; 9:1-2; 13:13; Rom. 8:27; 12:23; 15:25,26, 31; 16:2,15; Eph. 1:1,15,18; 3:8; 5:3; 6:18; Phil. 1:1; 4:22; Col 1:2,4,26; 1 Tm 5:10; Philemon 1:5,7; Heb. 6:10; 13:24; Jude 1:3; Rev. 11:18; 13:7; 14:12; 16:6; 17:6;18:20,24; Rev 19:8; 20:9 - in these verses, we see that Christians still living on earth are called "saints."

Matt. 27:52; Eph. 2:19; 3:18; Col. 1:12; 2 Thess. 1:10; Rev. 5:8; 8:3-4; 11:18; 13:10 - in these verses, we also see that "saints" also refer to those in heaven who united with us.

Dan. 4:13,23; 8:23 – we also see that the angels in heaven are also called “saints.” The same Hebrew word “qaddiysh” (holy one) is applied to both humans and angels in heaven. Hence, there are angel saints in heaven and human saints in heaven and on earth. Loving beings (whether angels or saints) are concerned for other beings, and prayer is the spiritual way of expressing that love.

God Desires and Responds to Our Subordinate Mediation / Intercessory Prayer
1 Tim 2:1-2 - because Jesus Christ is the one mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5), many Protestants deny the Catholic belief that the saints on earth and in heaven can mediate on our behalf. But before Paul's teaching about Jesus as the "one mediator," Paul urges supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people. Paul is thus appealing for mediation from others besides Christ, the one mediator. Why?

1 Tim 2:3 - because this subordinate mediation is good and acceptable to God our Savior. Because God is our Father and we are His children, God invites us to participate in Christ's role as mediator.

1 Tim. 2:5 - therefore, although Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man, there are many intercessors (subordinate mediators).

1 Cor. 3:9 - God invites us to participate in Christ's work because we are God's "fellow workers" and one family in the body of Christ. God wants His children to participate. The phrase used to describe "fellow workers" is "sunergoi," which literally means synergists, or cooperators with God in salvific matters. Does God need fellow workers? Of course not, but this shows how much He, as Father, loves His children. God wants us to work with Him.

Mark 16:20 - this is another example of how the Lord "worked with them" ("sunergountos"). God cooperates with us. Out of His eternal love, He invites our participation.

Rom. 8:28 - God "works for good with" (the Greek is "sunergei eis agathon") those who love Him. We work as subordinate mediators.

2 Cor. 6:1 - "working together" (the Greek is "sunergountes") with him, don't accept His grace in vain. God allows us to participate in His work, not because He needs our help, but because He loves us and wants to exalt us in His Son. It is like the father who lets his child join him in carrying the groceries in the house. The father does not need help, but he invites the child to assist to raise up the child in dignity and love.

Heb. 12:1 - the “cloud of witnesses” (nephos marturon) that we are surrounded by is a great amphitheatre of witnesses to the earthly race, and they actively participate and cheer us (the runners) on, in our race to salvation.

1 Peter 2:5 - we are a holy priesthood, instructed to offer spiritual sacrifices to God. We are therefore subordinate priests to the Head Priest, but we are still priests who participate in Christ's work of redemption.

Rev. 1:6, 5:10 - Jesus made us a kingdom of priests for God. Priests intercede through Christ on behalf of God's people.

James 5:16; Proverbs 15:8, 29 - the prayers of the righteous (the saints) have powerful effects. This is why we ask for their prayers. How much more powerful are the saints’ prayers in heaven, in whom righteousness has been perfected.

1 Tim 2:5-6 - therefore, it is because Jesus Christ is the one mediator before God that we can be subordinate mediators. Jesus is the reason. The Catholic position thus gives Jesus the most glory. He does it all but loves us so much He desires our participation.

[jamiethelanky]

You hit the nail right on the head my friend ..this country's foundation is built on Christianity and should be the main staple of what is taught in our school systems ...
No it shouldn't. Why force it onto people who really do not want it. It is not a theocracy. I am a Christian but i would not wnat to see people forced into a religion.

I came to my religious beliefs after a lot of thought and meditation on matters of God and the world - and I think that is how Christianity would be best suited - that instead of having a bunch of people who call themselves Christians but really couldn't care less because they had it forced at them in school, they have people who genuinely believe.

As for teaching *about* Christianity, I have no issue, as long as it is done in a Religious Studies context; the teaching of Christianity is where I draw the line.

America is a land that is defined by freedom, one of which is the freedom to religious choice.

[GoldenArm9]

No it shouldn't. Why force it onto people who really do not want it. It is not a theocracy. I am a Christian but i would not wnat to see people forced into a religion.

I came to my religious beliefs after a lot of thought and meditation on matters of God and the world - and I think that is how Christianity would be best suited - that instead of having a bunch of people who call themselves Christians but really couldn't care less because they had it forced at them in school, they have people who genuinely believe.

As for teaching *about* Christianity, I have no issue, as long as it is done in a Religious Studies context; the teaching of Christianity is where I draw the line.

America is a land that is defined by freedom, one of which is the freedom to religious choice.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/05/24/article-1021691-0051C74500000258-142_233x358.jpg

I think i would be more worried about England's spiritual condition than America ..we all know how the Muslims feel about alternative lifestyles ..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1022491/Bishop-says-collapse-Christianity-wrecking-British-society--Islam-filling-void.html

[jamiethelanky]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/05/24/article-1021691-0051C74500000258-142_233x358.jpg

I think i would be more worried about England's spiritual condition than America ..we all know how the Muslims feel about alternative lifestyles ..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1022491/Bishop-says-collapse-Christianity-wrecking-British-society--Islam-filling-void.html
How is this in any way related to the issue at hand?

And I am worried about spirituality and fairness the world over...

[GoldenArm9]

How is this in any way related to the issue at hand?

And I am worried about spirituality and fairness the world over...
Because Christianity is what made England great and it has strayed far off that path as same as my country is doing today ...i think that is pretty simple to understand ...

[jamiethelanky]

Because Christianity is what made England great and it has strayed far off that path as same as my country is doing today ...i think that is pretty simple to understand ...
Christianity caused 600 years of Civil War and terrorism into the 20th Century.

Hardly great.

[GoldenArm9]

How is this in any way related to the issue at hand?

And I am worried about spirituality and fairness the world over...

And it also sounds like England has tried diversity and it didn't or isn't working ...

[Eleden]

How is it that public schools are allowed to teach on other religions such as Buddism, Islam and such but Heavens forbid you teach about Christianity. They make you participate in rituals such as witchcraft but they don't let you pray or bring a Bible. Isn't the sloagan for this country supposed to be "In God we trust"? They come up with excuses like "We don't want to offend muslims or Buddists etc" I'm sorry but if your offended by Christians , thats just to darn bad. This country was built with a Christian foundation and I'll be darned if their gonna let other religons come in our country and take that away from us. I'm not saying that you have to believe in God and Jesus but I am saying that we should be allowed to praise and worship without getting in trouble because some freakin Buddist down the street doesn't approve.




EDIT: I'm not trying to offend anyone thats not Christian. I'm just venting.

Since when do schools force kids to engage in Witchcraft?

My public school educates us on all sorts of religion. Last year we were given a list of religions to choose from and we had to do a huge project on the one we were assigned to... including Christianity

This argument seems a little one sided to me. "Don't let religions come into this country and take that away from us." Last time I checked America was a nation of many races, creeds, and religions.

I really haven't seen discrimination against only a single faith in our school system. A teacher of mine brought a Koran into school and was asked to remove it from sight out of fear of offending Christians, Jews, etc.

[jamiethelanky]

And it also sounds like England has tried diversity and it didn't or isn't working ...
Seems to be working from where I'm looking - and I have a significantly better view...

[GoldenArm9]

Christianity caused 600 years of Civil War and terrorism into the 20th Century.

Hardly great.

Queen Victoria was a God fearing ruler and England flourished under her ..she used the Bible to direct her decisions....i would say that deserves a :Clap:

[jamiethelanky]

Queen Victoria was a God fearing ruler and England flourished under her ..she used the Bible to direct her her decisions....i would say that deserves a :Clap:
She had no power, he was a mere figurehead. The constitutional monarchy post-Cromwell has had its power virtually jettisoned, and it's a good thing - they were never elected.

[GoldenArm9]

She had no power, he was a mere figurehead. The constitutional monarchy post-Cromwell has had its power virtually jettisoned, and it's a good thing - they were never elected.

Victoria was Queen when there was a tremendous change in the lives of British people: Britain became the most powerful country in the world, with the largest empire that had ever existed, ruling a quarter of the world's population.
The number of people living in Britain more than doubled, causing a huge demand for food, clothes and housing.
Factories and machines were built to meet this demand and new towns grew up, changing the landscape and the ways people lived and worked.
Railways, originally built to transport goods, meant people could travel easily around the country for the first time.

Sounds like she had alot of influence over British Lives ...and again she ruled with the Bible being her guide ...

[Eleden]

Victoria was Queen when there was a tremendous change in the lives of British people: Britain became the most powerful country in the world, with the largest empire that had ever existed, ruling a quarter of the world's population.
The number of people living in Britain more than doubled, causing a huge demand for food, clothes and housing.
Factories and machines were built to meet this demand and new towns grew up, changing the landscape and the ways people lived and worked.
Railways, originally built to transport goods, meant people could travel easily around the country for the first time.

Sounds like she had alot of influence over British Lives ...and again she ruled with the Bible being her guide ...

Just because she was Queen when this rapid growth occurred doesn't mean she was responsible for it. Like jamie said, she was merely a figurehead who had a decent Parliament working during her reign.

[jamiethelanky]

Victoria was Queen when there was a tremendous change in the lives of British people: Britain became the most powerful country in the world, with the largest empire that had ever existed, ruling a quarter of the world's population.
The number of people living in Britain more than doubled, causing a huge demand for food, clothes and housing.
Factories and machines were built to meet this demand and new towns grew up, changing the landscape and the ways people lived and worked.
Railways, originally built to transport goods, meant people could travel easily around the country for the first time.

Sounds like she had alot of influence over British Lives ...and again she ruled with the Bible being her guide ...
No, her government did that; including (but not limited to) Prime Ministers Gladstone and Disraeli. There was a lot wrong with Victorian England, too. Poverty was rife, crime was astronomical and there was institutionalised racism throughout the empire. Britain's major ports were still used for the slave trade. All in all, not as rosy a picture as can be painted.

I'm sure you're aware of the works of Charles Dickens.

[jamiethelanky]

That said, the army got the job done. It took 38 minutes to win a war declared against Zanzibar.

[busamboy]

He did specifically say public schools...

Oh, whats the difference, nobody is going to send their kids to a public school that is teaching religion that contradicts their kids!

Edit: I know the difference, I meant whats the difference between them doing it in private or public schools.

[jamiethelanky]

Oh, whats the difference, nobody is going to send their kids to a public school that is teaching religion that contradicts their kids!

Edit: I know the difference, I meant whats the difference between them doing it in private or public schools.
Public school = government. Religion + government = no.

[busamboy]

Public school = government. Religion + government = no.


The problem is that this country has not changed its religion to one that includes bits and parts of everybodies.



















Thats right. Don't act like it has not happened before!

[jamiethelanky]

The problem is that this country has not changed its religion to one that includes bits and parts of everybodies.


Thats right. Don't act like it has not happened before!
Can you please put that in a way more friendly to my caffeine-addled mind?

[busamboy]

Can you please put that in a way more friendly to my caffeine-addled mind?


I don't know how else to put it. People have changed their religions through history based on new evidence. For instance, nobody believes in a sun god and we know that planets exist and they are not gods. So maybe it is time to have a new religion in America so everybody won't get so made all the time. We have already done it with what used to be Christmas. Forget what it is called though.

[jamiethelanky]

I don't know how else to put it. People have changed their religions through history based on new evidence. For instance, nobody believes in a sun god and we know that planets exist and they are not gods. So maybe it is time to have a new religion in America so everybody won't get so made all the time. We have already done it with what used to be Christmas. Forget what it is called though.
Why not have no *official* religion and just let people find their own way to God?

[busamboy]

Why not have no *official* religion and just let people find their own way to God?

I just have a feeling that won't work for some people!

[jamiethelanky]

I just have a feeling that won't work for some people!
True that. It involves a tolerance and an inprejudice that quite a few people are not in ownership of.

[busamboy]

True that. It involves a tolerance and an inprejudice that quite a few people are not in ownership of.

Right, until the bible is nothing more than mythology, that is the way it will be!

[Treee]

What makes me angry is the graduation rate of our highschools. Lets worry about that before we worry about any sort of religion or belief system.

[busamboy]

What makes me angry is the graduation rate of our highschools. Lets worry about that before we worry about any sort of religion or belief system.

Good Call, and I don't mean like Miller's good call on don't fruit the beer, and then come out with a fruity beer:thumbsup:



Miller Chill for those of you that don't know what I am talking about

[Samhain]

I don't know how else to put it. People have changed their religions through history based on new evidence. For instance, nobody believes in a sun god and we know that planets exist and they are not gods. So maybe it is time to have a new religion in America so everybody won't get so made all the time. We have already done it with what used to be Christmas. Forget what it is called though.

Christmas hasn't been as done away with as people like to think. I seriously doubt that devout followers of Christianity have let Santa Claus convince them that it's meaning lies in commercialism. I'd even go so far as to speculate that priests and ministers have little problem putting butts in the pews on Dec 25. Heck, for some people it's the ONLY day they care to show up.

[busamboy]

Christmas hasn't been as done away with as people like to think. I seriously doubt that devout followers of Christianity have let Santa Claus convince them that it's meaning lies in commercialism. I'd even go so far as to speculate that priests and ministers have little problem putting butts in the pews on Dec 25. Heck, for some people it's the ONLY day they care to show up.

I know Christmas hasn't been done away with. But as a society, it is know more as a holiday for every one. I forget how it goes. First it was Chrismahanaka and then this past year we added in everyones. It doesn't change what we do in our own homes, but as a society, I think is is important to recognize everyones.

[GoldenArm9]

Right, until the bible is nothing more than mythology, that is the way it will be!

Keep waiting on that one ..the Bible has only been around for generation upon generation ...

[Danno]

Christianity caused 600 years of Civil War and terrorism into the 20th Century.

Hardly great.


Sssssh, Don't mention those dirty little secrets the Crusades or the Inquisition. :ninja:

[busamboy]

Keep waiting on that one ..the Bible has only been around for generation upon generation ...

Oh, I already know. I am not waiting for anything, I was just making a general statement. Eventually in the future as the world becomes more of one race, than many, it will be more likely. Or until we can go back to the future and see if Jesus really could walk on water and wasn't just doing magic tricks back then as a ploy to get people to follow that religion. Then again, that would have already happened if time travel were possible. Until then, I agree with you.

[busamboy]

Sssssh, Don't mention those dirty little secrets the Crusades or the Inquisition. :ninja:

:lol::lol:

[GoldenArm9]

Oh, I already know. I am not waiting for anything, I was just making a general statement. Eventually in the future as the world becomes more of one race, than many, it will be more likely. Or until we can go back to the future and see if Jesus really could walk on water and wasn't just doing magic tricks back then as a ploy to get people to follow that religion. Then again, that would have already happened if time travel were possible. Until then, I agree with you.

So what your wanting is a one world government.....:huh:? That was already tried ..it was called the Tower Of Babel ....God took care of that situation when he confused all the people of the world by making them speak different languages ...then there hearts turned to there own lust and he used a flood to destroy them ....

[barryllium]

How is it that public schools are allowed to teach on other religions such as Buddism, Islam and such but Heavens forbid you teach about Christianity. They make you participate in rituals such as witchcraft but they don't let you pray or bring a Bible. Isn't the sloagan for this country supposed to be "In God we trust"? They come up with excuses like "We don't want to offend muslims or Buddists etc" I'm sorry but if your offended by Christians , thats just to darn bad. This country was built with a Christian foundation and I'll be darned if their gonna let other religons come in our country and take that away from us. I'm not saying that you have to believe in God and Jesus but I am saying that we should be allowed to praise and worship without getting in trouble because some freakin Buddist down the street doesn't approve.

EDIT: I'm not trying to offend anyone thats not Christian. I'm just venting.

You hit the nail right on the head my friend ..this country's foundation is built on Christianity and should be the main staple of what is taught in our school systems ...

OK, I went to a public school - and my experience was way off of what you are speaking of. I learned about many a religion (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Native American religions, amongst others), all in a historical context - because all play a large part in the history of the world. No religion was preached - as it should not be, as our public schools are full of people of many religion. If you want your child to have a religion preached to you, then that's where private schools come in.

You speak of the slogan of "In God we trust" - and yes, that is the slogan. But it does not say "In the Catholic God we trust" or "In the Episcopalian God we trust", or even "In the Christian God we trust". Last I checked, the many sects of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all have the same "god" - they just believe that god wants/believes different things. Assuming that "In God we trust" means specifically the Christian god would be incorrect.

As far as how this country was built, our country was built on freedom of religion, not specifically Christianity. The religion of many was oppressed, so the immigrated to the Americas to have religious freedom. At some point, someone said "hey, most of those people were Christian, so this country was built on Christianity, so let's try to base everything on that." In doing such, though, the freedom of religion this country was built on took a slight hit. In the end, though, the public schools - in not pushing Christianity and instead teaching all religions in historical context - are following the purpose of this country's creation to be a place for religious and individual freedom.

[thefo0]

How is it that public schools are allowed to teach on other religions such as Buddism, Islam and such but Heavens forbid you teach about Christianity. They make you participate in rituals such as witchcraft but they don't let you pray or bring a Bible. Isn't the sloagan for this country supposed to be "In God we trust"? They come up with excuses like "We don't want to offend muslims or Buddists etc" I'm sorry but if your offended by Christians , thats just to darn bad. This country was built with a Christian foundation and I'll be darned if their gonna let other religons come in our country and take that away from us. I'm not saying that you have to believe in God and Jesus but I am saying that we should be allowed to praise and worship without getting in trouble because some freakin Buddist down the street doesn't approve.




EDIT: I'm not trying to offend anyone thats not Christian. I'm just venting.

Sorry if I restate anything that has been said earlier, I haven't had internet this weekend.

1. There is a difference between teaching the tenets of a faith and preaching it or having organized services (i.e. institutionally supported prayer before classes or games)
2. "In God We Trust," is a relatively new phenomenon in our country. It wasn't instituted as a motto until an act of Congress was passed in 1956.
3. The United States population may be primarily Christian, but it does not appear to me that the founders intended for the nation to be a christian nation.

From the First Article of the US Constitution: "Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." (emphasis mine)
http://www.zenhell.com/GetEnlightened/FoundingFathers/

[kevin28_1962]

Christianity caused 600 years of Civil War and terrorism into the 20th Century.


So it was Christianty, the religion, that is at fault for the wars. Not evil men on both side of Christianity and Islam who are at fault? I feel that the men who thought it was best for each their religion who are at fault for those wars not the religion themselves.
Also, if you're going to say that Christianity is the cause couldn't the same arguement be made that Islam is the cause as well?
Just throwing my thoughts out on the subject.

[Danno]

So it was Christianty, the religion, that is at fault for the wars. Not evil men on both side of Christianity and Islam who are at fault? I feel that the men who thought it was best for each their religion who are at fault for those wars not the religion themselves.
Also, if you're going to say that Christianity is the cause couldn't the same arguement be made that Islam is the cause as well?
Just throwing my thoughts out on the subject.


here are my thoughts:

Well its not so much Christianity itself. A religion in and of itself can't do anything, unless it makes direct edicts to kill people (and many have). However, its more the influence of Christianity. In the end it took people, especially leaders like kings, popes, bishops, etc to make the dark moments in Christianity happen, and spread some of the more prejudiced views that some put with it (Modern examples I think of are Falwell and Robertson, just IMHO). So when you look at the grand scheme, the unifier is the theology of Christianity. So you have to say its somewhat responsible, at the very least by influence.

However, thats not saying Christianity is the most horrible religion. Many religions have had their fair share of persecution, wars, and the like. So Christianity is in no way alone, and has in no way been the worst either. The thing that typically bothers me is that most Christians I've ever met refuse to acknowledge the bad things that the religion has either influence, inspired, or otherwise had a hand in.

[thefo0]

So it was Christianty, the religion, that is at fault for the wars. Not evil men on both side of Christianity and Islam who are at fault? I feel that the men who thought it was best for each their religion who are at fault for those wars not the religion themselves.
Also, if you're going to say that Christianity is the cause couldn't the same arguement be made that Islam is the cause as well?
Just throwing my thoughts out on the subject.

I think you bring up a valid point. But, I don't think that either faith in particular is to blame. Both Christianity and Islam can be beautiful things for certain people. Sadly, they also have the ability to be terribly ugly, destructive forces. This is true of any religion though. The real evil here (in my opinion), is an irrational, dogmatic clutching to what one believes to be the truth. I often wish that people could just step back from their personal biases and beliefs (myself included) and realize that we are all just trying to make sense of the same thing, but just looking at it in a slightly different way.

[barryllium]

here are my thoughts:

Well its not so much Christianity itself. A religion in and of itself can't do anything, unless it makes direct edicts to kill people (and many have). However, its more the influence of Christianity. In the end it took people, especially leaders like kings, popes, bishops, etc to make the dark moments in Christianity happen, and spread some of the more prejudiced views that some put with it (Modern examples I think of are Falwell and Robertson, just IMHO). So when you look at the grand scheme, the unifier is the theology of Christianity. So you have to say its somewhat responsible, at the very least by influence.

However, thats not saying Christianity is the most horrible religion. Many religions have had their fair share of persecution, wars, and the like. So Christianity is in no way alone, and has in no way been the worst either. The thing that typically bothers me is that most Christians I've ever met refuse to acknowledge the bad things that the religion has either influence, inspired, or otherwise had a hand in.

You make good points here. As far as your last statement, that will continue to be an issue as long as Christianity continues to carry the idea of Papal Infallacy. Christianity continues to teach that humans are imperfect, and yet Catholicism continues to place this idea upon it's human leader. This leads to ignoring things that happened in order ignore the contradiction that is created - such as the things you named earlier (the crusades, the inquisition), as well as a stance of non-involvement during the Holocaust and the creation of castratis (despite the fact that Deuteronomy 23:1 speaks out against castration). As long as the Catholic church continues to keep the idea of Papal Infallacy, you will continue to have non-acknowledgement of many things.

[Ocho_Cinco85]

I never said anywhere in my post that we should try to force people to believe in God and Jesus. I don't know where some of you got that idea.

[Jumbro]

Seems to be working from where I'm looking - and I have a significantly better view...

Interesting....you don't seem to take response like that well when they are directed towards you (And your views on American life).:shock:

[Jumbro]

You make good points here. As far as your last statement, that will continue to be an issue as long as Christianity continues to carry the idea of Papal Infallacy. Christianity continues to teach that humans are imperfect, and yet Catholicism continues to place this idea upon it's human leader. This leads to ignoring things that happened in order ignore the contradiction that is created - such as the things you named earlier (the crusades, the inquisition), as well as a stance of non-involvement during the Holocaust and the creation of castratis (despite the fact that Deuteronomy 23:1 speaks out against castration). As long as the Catholic church continues to keep the idea of Papal Infallacy, you will continue to have non-acknowledgement of many things.

I'd suggest a book called "hitler's pope". While many believe that he was for hitler's holocaust, a deeper look actually shows that while yes, there were actions to be seen as pro-holocaust, in the end he was doing what was best for the Jews. He did not speek openly about it because he knew that would cause the death of more.

[barryllium]

I'd suggest a book called "hitler's pope". While many believe that he was for hitler's holocaust, a deeper look actually shows that while yes, there were actions to be seen as pro-holocaust, in the end he was doing what was best for the Jews. He did not speek openly about it because he knew that would cause the death of more.

While I don't claim to be an expert on the holocaust (and will take your book suggestion in mind, thanks), even if you take this example out, the point(s) made still stand. I'm not saying everything the church/pope does is horrible/wrong, either, I'm just saying (and agreeing with Danno) that the church/religion as a whole cannot be removed from all culpability when it comes to certain events in human history.

[Jumbro]

While I don't claim to be an expert on the holocaust (and will take your book suggestion in mind, thanks), even if you take this example out, the point(s) made still stand. I'm not saying everything the church/pope does is horrible/wrong, either, I'm just saying (and agreeing with Danno) that the church/religion as a whole cannot be removed from all culpability when it comes to certain events in human history.


I merely pointed that out knowing you are a man itnerested in broadening your knowledge!

[barryllium]

I merely pointed that out knowing you are a man itnerested in broadening your knowledge!

Fair enough - again, thanks for the recommendation!

[jamiethelanky]

So what your wanting is a one world government.....:huh:? That was already tried ..it was called the Tower Of Babel ....God took care of that situation when he confused all the people of the world by making them speak different languages ...then there hearts turned to there own lust and he used a flood to destroy them ....
Are you sure it was God?

I've got a lot of language change theory that suggests it isn't.

[jamiethelanky]

So it was Christianty, the religion, that is at fault for the wars. Not evil men on both side of Christianity and Islam who are at fault? I feel that the men who thought it was best for each their religion who are at fault for those wars not the religion themselves.
Also, if you're going to say that Christianity is the cause couldn't the same arguement be made that Islam is the cause as well?
Just throwing my thoughts out on the subject.
I'm just making the point that those within the religions did not make my country the best of places. Protestantism was created by Henry VIII specifically to destroy the Catholic church.

[jamiethelanky]

Interesting....you don't seem to take response like that well when they are directed towards you (And your views on American life).:shock:
It is simply because I feel that I am a lot better informed on American life than Goldenarm is on British.

I think I feel correctly.

Anyway, I'm just correcting his shortcomings. I took the advice of someone who was a guard at Guantanemo because they had a better view than me, but there is no mass coverage of British affairs in American news - I watch American News - I doubt Goldenarm watches the BBC - his head would explode at seeing a centrist news service.

[Jumbro]

It is simply because I feel that I am a lot better informed on American life than Goldenarm is on British.

I think I feel correctly.

Anyway, I'm just correcting his shortcomings. I took the advice of someone who was a guard at Guantanemo because they had a better view than me, but there is no mass coverage of British affairs in American news - I watch American News - I doubt Goldenarm watches the BBC - his head would explode at seeing a centrist news service.


Arragance at its best....are you sure you aren't really an American:smirk:

[kevin28_1962]

I'm just making the point that those within the religions did not make my country the best of places. Protestantism was created by Henry VIII specifically to destroy the Catholic church.

ok, I was just asking.

I never heard it that Henry was trying to destroy the Catholic church rather that he was creating a Church that would permit him to live his lifestyle to his liking. I'm no scholar so I could be wrong those are just things I had heard in the past.

[barryllium]

It is simply because I feel that I am a lot better informed on American life than Goldenarm is on British.

I think I feel correctly.

Anyway, I'm just correcting his shortcomings. I took the advice of someone who was a guard at Guantanemo because they had a better view than me, but there is no mass coverage of British affairs in American news - I watch American News - I doubt Goldenarm watches the BBC - his head would explode at seeing a centrist news service.

I would agree that you are better informed on British life than GoldenArm9 - heck, I'm sometimes tempted to say you are better informed on American life than he is! :thumbsup:

[Jumbro]

ok, I was just asking.

I never heard it that Henry was trying to destroy the Catholic church rather that he was creating a Church that would permit him to live his lifestyle to his liking. I'm no scholar so I could be wrong those are just things I had heard in the past.


Yeah, Catholicism kicked him out because of divorce and he didn't like that...so he created his own Church, which was VERY similar to the Catholic church.

[jamiethelanky]

ok, I was just asking.

I never heard it that Henry was trying to destroy the Catholic church rather that he was creating a Church that would permit him to live his lifestyle to his liking. I'm no scholar so I could be wrong those are just things I had heard in the past.
Read up on the Dissolution of the Monasteries...

[Ocho_Cinco85]

Are you sure it was God?

I've got a lot of language change theory that suggests it isn't.It sure was God. The story (true story if I might add) is that, the people of the nations got together to build a tower that could reach Heaven. God destroyed the tower and gave them differant languages so they couldn't communicate with one another. I don't know what theory you heard but it is definetly false.

[jamiethelanky]

It sure was God. The story (true story if I might add) is that, the people of the nations got together to build a tower that could reach Heaven. God destroyed the tower and gave them differant languages so they couldn't communicate with one another. I don't know what theory you heard but it is definetly false.
:rotf:

Sir, I study Linguistics.

It was yet again another figurative story meant to explain something that was beyond the scholars of the day.

[philhos]

:rotf:

Sir, I study Linguistics.

It was yet again another figurative story meant to explain something that was beyond the scholars of the day.

In other words, it may not have happened literally as the Bible portrays it, but still it doesn't mean that God didn't direct the separation of languages.

[barryllium]

It sure was God. The story (true story if I might add) is that, the people of the nations got together to build a tower that could reach Heaven. God destroyed the tower and gave them differant languages so they couldn't communicate with one another. I don't know what theory you heard but it is definetly false.

I think it is awesome that you believe this story to be factual - it shows your strength in your faith and beliefs. It is not a necessity in all versions of Christianity or Judaism to believe the literalness of this story, though. You believe it to be factual, that's awesome. But that does not mean it is factual, in the end - it's all a matter of faith and belief. I read that story, I do not believe it to be factual - I instead see it as a figurative story to purvey a moral/point. That doesn't make me any less Christian.

My reason for saying all this is that the reason for the disagreement between you and others comes down to faith. I am in no way asking you to change your faith - and not asking anyone else to change theirs. But just understand that not everyone is on the same page when it comes to this story (and most of the bible), and that is just fine.

[jamiethelanky]

In other words, it may not have happened literally as the Bible portrays it, but still it doesn't mean that God didn't direct the separation of languages.
If you wish. Probably quite close to my belief that all scientific processes will have been set in motion by a Creator.

[kevin28_1962]

Read up on the Dissolution of the Monasteries...

Ok, I did a little reading per your suggestions and I dont know if perhaps the wording in previous posts were misunderstood or what. When I see you say he was trying to destroy the Catholic Church, I'm thinking "the Catholic Church as a whole", not just in the UK. But from the little I read it appears that he was given full authority to be the "Supreme Head of the Church of England" which appeared that he took over all assets of the Catholic Church in the UK and suppressed the Catholic way of doing things and instituted his way of doing things.
It's a shame of all that they did to the abbeys over there. When I was over there I went around to some of the ruins in Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire. They were such awesome architecture.