Daniel 9: 24-27

[Rayne]

AKA the "Seventy Weeks" prophecy. I'll assume you have the passage out and are looking at it as this is going to be really long to begin with without me having to type the passage.

Backstory. Daniel knew of the prophecies concerning how long his people would be in captivity (70 years, as given by Ezekiel if I remember correctly) and was wondering when God would send the savior to get them out. In response, God dispatched Michael - who was withstood by two demons and couldn't get past until help arrived. Michael is sent to answer Daniels prayer. (Or was it Gabriel)?

24) "Seventy Weeks" or in Hebrew, "Seventy Sevens" or 490 years. "For your people and for your holy city" Despite Daniels rank in Babylon, he was Jewish. Thus, his people are Jews and his holy city, Jerusalem. If there's any doubt to this, please see Daniel 9:16 and following. "To finish the transgression..."...at the end of the 490 years there would be no more sins, no more vision or prophecy and the Messiah would be annointed.

25) "Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there shall be 7 weeks and 62 weeks" Basically from point A to point B there shall be X and Y amount of years.

Q: How do we KNOW God meant weeks of years and not weeks of days?
A: Because when God means weeks of days, He actually says it. (chapter 10:2,3)

Q: Why did God divide it into two parts? Why 62 weeks and 7 weeks?
A: 7 weeks, or 49 years after the clock started ticking, Malachi wrapped up the OT.

"The street shall be built again, and the wall even in troublesome times" The word for street is "Rechob" and means "plaza". The word for wall is, "Charuts" and meant, "rampart". In other words, Jerusalem would regain a piece of her past prosperity. Plaza means she would have open commerce and rampart means she'd be fortified BUT "In troublesome times" literally means, "In times of afflicition" (TSoQ) in Hebrew. She'd be restored while still captive.

The decree went forth in 445 BC while under Greek rule. (Neh.2:1-8). You didn't think God would forget to record that moment in scripture, did you?

26) "And after the 62 weeks Messiah shall be cut off but not for himself". That is, after 483 years the Messiah would die, but it would be a sacrificial death. "And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary". The prince who is to come is the anti-christ and since the Romans destroyed the city and the sanctuary in 70 AD (Just as Jesus predicted, by the way) the Anti-Chirst must come from somewhere inside the old Roman empire. "The end of it shall be with a flood". The end of it? The end of what? The end of the santuary....it shall come with a flood or "overflow". "Shetaph" in Hebrew. That's exactly what happened. Jerusalem was over run by Roman soldiers. "And till the end of the war, desolations are determined". The war? What war? THE war, guys. Armageddon. The word "desolations" is used or "shamen" it carries the idea of a wasteland. Jerusalem would not regain the prominence she had under, say, Solomon until the last war was over.

27) "Then He"...Who's he? The anti-chirst. "Shall confirm a convenant with many for one week". Confirm = "Gabar"...."To strengthen". "Covenant" = "Leauge"..."Berit". The antichrist will make a deal with Israel for the last 7 of the 490 years. "But in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering". Uh-oh. This verse says that, at the last days, Israel will have it's temple back AND be sacrificeing animals as they use to. "Sacrifice" - "Zabat", literally..."An animal slaughter". "Offering" - "Vumehnehcha" or "to pour out". In the middle of the week (3 1/2 years) the antichrist will stop all sacrifices. "And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate". In Hebrew, "And on the corner of the alter desolating abomonations". Wing - "Kanaph" it means, "Covering and protecting" same word means corner. The antichrists desolation shall be complete within the temple itself. "Even the consummation; which is determined, is poured out on the desolate". Consummation in Hebrew is "Kalah" and means "Complete". The attrocities committed by the antichrist are will continue until they're complete and when they are, he'll be punished.

SO......why has it been more than 490 years since the command was given and we don't have a Messiah? What happened?

With a week of years left to go, Jesus was nailed to the cross. That stopped the clock.

Both Jesus and Paul referred to the "Time of the Gentiles". Remember, this 490 years is specifically for the Jews. No one else. Right now God is dealing with the gentiles...or, non Jews. See: Rom. 11:25; Luke 21:24.

This is one of the reasons many think the rapture will happen at the beginning of the tribulation, as it signals the end of the time of the gentiles and begins the last seven years of the 490.

Now...for some dates, and you can draw your own timeline.

605 BC - Captivity begins
536 BC - Captivity ends
445 BC - Degree is given
396 BC - OT closes
30 AD - Chirst died.

I've given this as a Bible study many times (yes, once upon a time Ghosty was a Bible study teacher) and is taken from some really old notes of mine. Yes, Ghosty can read Hebrew, provided the "nikkud" or vowel points are included.

[GoldenArm9]

AKA the "Seventy Weeks" prophecy. I'll assume you have the passage out and are looking at it as this is going to be really long to begin with without me having to type the passage.

Backstory. Daniel knew of the prophecies concerning how long his people would be in captivity (70 years, as given by Ezekiel if I remember correctly) and was wondering when God would send the savior to get them out. In response, God dispatched Michael - who was withstood by two demons and couldn't get past until help arrived. Michael is sent to answer Daniels prayer. (Or was it Gabriel)?

24) "Seventy Weeks" or in Hebrew, "Seventy Sevens" or 490 years. "For your people and for your holy city" Despite Daniels rank in Babylon, he was Jewish. Thus, his people are Jews and his holy city, Jerusalem. If there's any doubt to this, please see Daniel 9:16 and following. "To finish the transgression..."...at the end of the 490 years there would be no more sins, no more vision or prophecy and the Messiah would be annointed.

25) "Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there shall be 7 weeks and 62 weeks" Basically from point A to point B there shall be X and Y amount of years.

Q: How do we KNOW God meant weeks of years and not weeks of days?
A: Because when God means weeks of days, He actually says it. (chapter 10:2,3)

Q: Why did God divide it into two parts? Why 62 weeks and 7 weeks?
A: 7 weeks, or 49 years after the clock started ticking, Malachi wrapped up the OT.

"The street shall be built again, and the wall even in troublesome times" The word for street is "Rechob" and means "plaza". The word for wall is, "Charuts" and meant, "rampart". In other words, Jerusalem would regain a piece of her past prosperity. Plaza means she would have open commerce and rampart means she'd be fortified BUT "In troublesome times" literally means, "In times of afflicition" (TSoQ) in Hebrew. She'd be restored while still captive.

The decree went forth in 445 BC while under Greek rule. (Neh.2:1-8). You didn't think God would forget to record that moment in scripture, did you?

26) "And after the 62 weeks Messiah shall be cut off but not for himself". That is, after 483 years the Messiah would die, but it would be a sacrificial death. "And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary". The prince who is to come is the anti-christ and since the Romans destroyed the city and the sanctuary in 70 AD (Just as Jesus predicted, by the way) the Anti-Chirst must come from somewhere inside the old Roman empire. "The end of it shall be with a flood". The end of it? The end of what? The end of the santuary....it shall come with a flood or "overflow". "Shetaph" in Hebrew. That's exactly what happened. Jerusalem was over run by Roman soldiers. "And till the end of the war, desolations are determined". The war? What war? THE war, guys. Armageddon. The word "desolations" is used or "shamen" it carries the idea of a wasteland. Jerusalem would not regain the prominence she had under, say, Solomon until the last war was over.

27) "Then He"...Who's he? The anti-chirst. "Shall confirm a convenant with many for one week". Confirm = "Gabar"...."To strengthen". "Covenant" = "Leauge"..."Berit". The antichrist will make a deal with Israel for the last 7 of the 490 years. "But in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering". Uh-oh. This verse says that, at the last days, Israel will have it's temple back AND be sacrificeing animals as they use to. "Sacrifice" - "Zabat", literally..."An animal slaughter". "Offering" - "Vumehnehcha" or "to pour out". In the middle of the week (3 1/2 years) the antichrist will stop all sacrifices. "And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate". In Hebrew, "And on the corner of the alter desolating abomonations". Wing - "Kanaph" it means, "Covering and protecting" same word means corner. The antichrists desolation shall be complete within the temple itself. "Even the consummation; which is determined, is poured out on the desolate". Consummation in Hebrew is "Kalah" and means "Complete". The attrocities committed by the antichrist are will continue until they're complete and when they are, he'll be punished.

SO......why has it been more than 490 years since the command was given and we don't have a Messiah? What happened?

With a week of years left to go, Jesus was nailed to the cross. That stopped the clock.

Both Jesus and Paul referred to the "Time of the Gentiles". Remember, this 490 years is specifically for the Jews. No one else. Right now God is dealing with the gentiles...or, non Jews. See: Rom. 11:25; Luke 21:24.

This is one of the reasons many think the rapture will happen at the beginning of the tribulation, as it signals the end of the time of the gentiles and begins the last seven years of the 490.

Now...for some dates, and you can draw your own timeline.

605 BC - Captivity begins
536 BC - Captivity ends
445 BC - Degree is given
396 BC - OT closes
30 AD - Chirst died.

I've given this as a Bible study many times (yes, once upon a time Ghosty was a Bible study teacher) and is taken from some really old notes of mine. Yes, Ghosty can read Hebrew, provided the "nikkud" or vowel points are included.

Now this was good ..reps to you Ghosty ...

[a6pk2go]

Gaberial was a messenger angel and Michael was a warring angel.

[Who Dayton]

Gabriel is also attributed as being the Angel Of Death.




I have also believed the same with the "Rapture" happening at the beginning of the Tribulation.

Only thing that sux, is that no matter how much math you apply from the numbers in the Bible, we will never know when the last 7 years start.

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." "Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with the hand mill; one will be taken and the other left." "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come." (Matthew 24:36, 40 & 42)

As we get closer and closer to the Second Coming of Christ, there will be increasing and widespread doubt about whether Jesus even existed. People will also start wondering if God really exists and believers will leave the Christian faith (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, 1 Timothy 4:1-2, and 2 Peter 2:1-3).

There are many signs that say we are even closer to the end, but it could be another thousand years before Christ comes again.

[TheBengals]

Gabriel is also attributed as being the Angel Of Death.




I have also believed the same with the "Rapture" happening at the beginning of the Tribulation.

Only thing that sux, is that no matter how much math you apply from the numbers in the Bible, we will never know when the last 7 years start.

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." "Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with the hand mill; one will be taken and the other left." "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come." (Matthew 24:36, 40 & 42)

As we get closer and closer to the Second Coming of Christ, there will be increasing and widespread doubt about whether Jesus even existed. People will also start wondering if God really exists and believers will leave the Christian faith (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, 1 Timothy 4:1-2, and 2 Peter 2:1-3).

There are many signs that say we are even closer to the end, but it could be another thousand years before Christ comes again.

Mark 13:8
For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places; there will also be famines. These things are merely the beginning of birth pains.

I think about this prophesy a lot with all the earthquakes we've been having lately around the world.
Did anyone feel that one that happened in Illinois like a month ago?

[GoldenArm9]

Mark 13:8
For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places; there will also be famines. These things are merely the beginning of birth pains.

I think about this prophesy a lot with all the earthquakes we've been having lately around the world.
Did anyone feel that one that happened in Illinois like a month ago?

The one in China ..the one in Greece yesterday ...and lets not forget the fact that a world food shortage looks inevitable ...

[busamboy]

The one in China ..the one in Greece yesterday ...and lets not forget the fact that a world food shortage looks inevitable ...

Hasn't the food shortage always looked inevitable?:hmm:

I mean, eventually it has to happen, so you are right, but I don't think we will see it in our lifetime!

[Samhain]

Hasn't the food shortage always looked inevitable?:hmm:

I mean, eventually it has to happen, so you are right, but I don't think we will see it in our lifetime!

We may not. We will certainly see prices rise, though. Other parts of the world have been dealing with it forever, though. Glad I got my little vegetable garden. It actually saves some cash to be self sufficient.

[busamboy]

We may not. We will certainly see prices rise, though. Other parts of the world have been dealing with it forever, though. Glad I got my little vegetable garden. It actually saves some cash to be self sufficient.


Thats my point, if all else fails, you can grow your own right in your back yard.

[Who Dayton]

I see the world food shortage.

WHERE IS THE SUPER SIZED MEALS FROM MCDONALDS, BURGER KING, ETC.?!?!?!?! :lol:

The "earthquake", (which I think was underwater nuclear testing), that caused the India tsunami. China. Greece. Ohio. Illinois.

We are use to the ones in California, but you don't hear much of those anymore. They are everywhere else.

False Messiahs will come (WACO, TX plus many others that have claimed to be the Messiah)

Many people will be deceived by teachers of false doctrine and counterfeit Christianity (for examples of current deceptions and counterfeits, I refer you to Hank Hanagraaff's book "Christianity in Crisis," Harvest House publishers)

There will be wars & rumors of wars (Afghanistan, Iraq, possibly soon to be Iran.)

Nation will rise against nation... and kingdom against kingdom (these words are Greek idioms for wars involving many nations. We call them World Wars, and there have been two of them.)

There will be large-scale famines (current examples are rampant famines in Somalia, Ethiopia)

There will be world-wide pestilences (this refers to pandemics, such as AIDS, ebola)

There will be great earthquakes (India, China, Greece)

[jamiethelanky]

For me this is one of the parts of the Bible I do not see a lot of credence in. The predictions are very vague, almost Spiritualist Medium vague. Large famines - there have been large famines before and there will be again. Wide-scale pestilences - happened before (bubonic plague). Great earthquakes - have always gone on. Nations fighting - always have done, even on a world scale (see the Romans on that one). False messiahs, Chris Henry to name but one ( :ninja: ).

For me I reckon it's a story used in the Bible to hook people in - a sort of "yeah, we know what'll be at the end of the world and you can buy into it." A fabrication with a number of good intentions but for me not fact.

That said, if you want to run with it, fine.

[TheBengals]

For me this is one of the parts of the Bible I do not see a lot of credence in. The predictions are very vague, almost Spiritualist Medium vague. Large famines - there have been large famines before and there will be again. Wide-scale pestilences - happened before (bubonic plague). Great earthquakes - have always gone on. Nations fighting - always have done, even on a world scale (see the Romans on that one). False messiahs, Chris Henry to name but one ( :ninja: ).

For me I reckon it's a story used in the Bible to hook people in - a sort of "yeah, we know what'll be at the end of the world and you can buy into it." A fabrication with a number of good intentions but for me not fact.

That said, if you want to run with it, fine.

With their knowledge of the world back then, and seeing some of these things occur in their day, how did they come up with how the world would be run thousands of years in the future, how do you think they "knew" that these things would happen or still be happening? It's one thing to guess, but this isn't the only prophesy that has either been fulfilled or is in the process of being fulfilled.

[jamiethelanky]

With their knowledge of the world back then, and seeing some of these things occur in their day, how did they come up with how the world would be run thousands of years in the future, how do you think they "knew" that these things would happen or still be happening? It's one thing to guess, but this isn't the only prophesy that has either been fulfilled or is in the process of being fulfilled.
It's like me saying it is going to be sunny in the future. With even the briefest knowledge of human nature and of nature itself one could say that any of them could happen.

[TheBengals]

It's like me saying it is going to be sunny in the future. With even the briefest knowledge of human nature and of nature itself one could say that any of them could happen.

You sure are painting these prophesies with a large brush:hmm:
These aren't the only prophesies that have come to pass, and they're a little more complex than "it's going to be sunny."

[Jasonew6]

The one in China ..the one in Greece yesterday ...and lets not forget the fact that a world food shortage looks inevitable ...

There will never be a food shortage. There may be a distribution problem though with the dictators around the world.

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

human beings have existed as the species we are for about 100k years, within that time we experienced things everyday that our burgeoning sentience could not explain, i think it's incredibly interesting that we developed very abstract answers because that was better than no answer.

did you know that there have been over 10,000 gods worshiped by humans?

[jamiethelanky]

There will never be a food shortage. There may be a distribution problem though with the dictators around the world.
Yes. I find it almost dystopic that Robert Mugabe attended the UN Food Conference when he is willing to starve his people for political gain...

[jamiethelanky]

You sure are painting these prophesies with a large brush:hmm:
These aren't the only prophesies that have come to pass, and they're a little more complex than "it's going to be sunny."
Come on, give me some more complex prophesies...

[TheBengals]

Come on, give me some more complex prophesies...

Didn't you say that you were a Christian? Do you read the Bible?

[philhos]

Yes. I find it almost dystopic that Robert Mugabe attended the UN Food Conference when he is willing to starve his people for political gain...

It's things like this (and worse) that make America wary of having to do ANYTHING with the U.N.

[jamiethelanky]

Didn't you say that you were a Christian? Do you read the Bible?
Yes and yes, however, I've seen nothing prophetic that I feel is remotely close to coming true.

The Bible for me is a combination of stories - some true in their entirety, some figurative but with goodness and some that are ruined by the whim of man - and are outdated - and are hateful.

[jamiethelanky]

It's things like this (and worse) that make America wary of having to do ANYTHING with the U.N.
For me it's even more of a carrot tobe involved - to see the dastardly of the world and confront them over their evils.

[TheBengals]

Yes and yes, however, I've seen nothing prophetic that I feel is remotely close to coming true.

The Bible for me is a combination of stories - some true in their entirety, some figurative but with goodness and some that are ruined by the whim of man - and are outdated - and are hateful.

Jesus was prophesied to come as the messiah in the OT. If you believe in Jesus then surely you have to admit that this prophesy came true. Which makes his words a little more than a story, and His prophesies a little more than an educated guess.

[jamiethelanky]

Jesus was prophesied to come as the messiah in the OT. If you believe in Jesus then surely you have to admit that this prophesy came true. Which makes his words a little more than a story, and His prophesies a little more than an educated guess.
A messiah was meant to come. I believe it was Jesus but I don't think that predicted it. The Torah contains the same prediction and their messiah hasn't arrived yet. But again, anyone can sit there and say God can come again because if you believe in Him you have to think there will be times when He comes to Earth.

[TheBengals]

A messiah was meant to come. I believe it was Jesus but I don't think that predicted it. The Torah contains the same prediction and their messiah hasn't arrived yet. But again, anyone can sit there and say God can come again because if you believe in Him you have to think there will be times when He comes to Earth.

I don't know what the Torah says about their messiah, but there were many in Jesus' day that didn't believe that He was the Messiah, maybe that could be them, IDK. Let me clairify something, did you say that you don't think the OT predicted Jesus' coming?

[jamiethelanky]

I don't know what the Torah says about their messiah, but there were many in Jesus' day that didn't believe that He was the Messiah, maybe that could be them, IDK. Let me clairify something, did you say that you don't think the OT predicted Jesus' coming?
Yes and no. I believe it predicted the coming, but a belief in God would make such a prediction quite easy to make.

The Torah is exactly the same as the OT.