a great debate about god

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

if you have the time to watch, this is a great debate about god and religion between a jewish rabbi, and a famous atheist author

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vnMYL8sF7bQ

[philhos]

I can't watch it here at work, soooooooooooo who wins? ;)

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

I can't watch it here at work, soooooooooooo who wins? ;)

id have to give it to the atheist author, the jewish rabbi makes some good points, but he contradicts himself at times and attacks the character of the atheist which doesn't have a place in a civilized debate. the atheist just tells like it is.

one of the best lines the atheist author christopher hitchens gives is:

"science cannot prove that there is no creator of the universe, but it shows that it all could have worked without one"

[GoldenArm9]

id have to give it to the atheist author, the jewish rabbi makes some good points, but he contradicts himself at times and attacks the character of the atheist which doesn't have a place in a civilized debate. the atheist just tells like it is.

one of the best lines the atheist author christopher hitchens gives is:

"science cannot prove that there is no creator of the universe, but it shows that it all could have worked without one"
Science to Hitchens might not prove God exist but history ..ancient and Modern does ...

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

Science to Hitchens might not prove God exist but history ..ancient and Modern does ...

explain

[GoldenArm9]

explain
Ok ..The God Hitchens does not believe in made a promise to Abraham that and i'll paraphrase ...I will Bless them that bless thee and i'll curse them that curseth thee..God was talking about Israel here ...well using this promise let's look at history ...Egypt made slaves out of Israel and what happened to Egypt ..Israel left Egypt in ruins and Egypt was the most powerful nation on earth ...God told Pharoah to let his people go and he refused ....Egypt can only now point to it's past glory ...The Romans enslaved the Jews and Rome
fell ...now lets look at Modern day history ...the 67 6 day war that took place in the Mid East ..Israel defeated 9 nations essentially ..and they were only 20 yrs old as a nation ....God again stepped in ....

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

Ok ..The God Hitchens does not believe in made a promise to Abraham that and i'll paraphrase ...I will Bless them that bless thee and i'll curse them that curseth thee..God was talking about Israel here ...well using this promise let's look at history ...Egypt made slaves out of Israel and what happened to Egypt ..Israel left Egypt in ruins and Egypt was the most powerful nation on earth ...God told Pharoah to let his people go and he refused ....Egypt can only now point to it's past glory ...The Romans enslaved the Jews and Rome
fell ...now lets look at Modern day history ...the 67 6 day war that took place in the Mid East ..Israel defeated 9 nations essentially ..and they were only 20 yrs old as a nation ....God again stepped in ....

but without the united states israel wouldn't exist today

so is it really the united states thats god?

[GoldenArm9]

but without the united states israel wouldn't exist today

so is it really the united states thats god?
No but God has blessed the U.S. because of our support to Israel ..if that support was ever pulled then watch out ...

[GoldenArm9]

This is a great story ....
http://www.cyberhedge.net/docs/haymsaloman.html

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

No but God has blessed the U.S. because of our support to Israel ..if that support was ever pulled then watch out ...

so we weren't blessed when we defeated the british against impossible odds?

we weren't blessed when we kept the country together during a civil war?

we weren't blessed to get through a depression, we weren't blessed to win world war two?

it wasn't until 1947 that god started looking out for us???

[warsteiner138]

How are we blesses right now?

There is a crazy winter going on in the north east, historic flooding in Indiana and a small town in Wisconsin town is almost being erased off the planet right now.

If we are blessed now with so many blind, deaf, mentally challenged and miscarried babies being born everyday.


I just talking about things in nature here in my points.

So just how are blessed again.

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

How are we blesses right now?

There is a crazy winter going on in the north east, historic flooding in Indiana and a small town in Wisconsin town is almost being erased off the planet right now.

If we are blessed now with so many blind, deaf, mentally challenged and miscarried babies being born everyday.


I just talking about things in nature here in my points.

So just how are blessed again.

because we helped the jews and they are gods chosen people


complete idiocy.

[philhos]

How are we blesses right now?

There is a crazy winter going on in the north east, historic flooding in Indiana and a small town in Wisconsin town is almost being erased off the planet right now.

If we are blessed now with so many blind, deaf, mentally challenged and miscarried babies being born everyday.


I just talking about things in nature here in my points.

So just how are blessed again.

Well, one could argue that we are increasingly becoming more hostile towards God as a nation (i.e. turning away from Him, etc.), hence we aren't being blessed anymore.

Not saying I buy this argument, just throwing it out there.

[jamiethelanky]

because we helped the jews and they are gods chosen people


complete idiocy.
*facepalm*

[thefo0]

Ok ..The God Hitchens does not believe in made a promise to Abraham that and i'll paraphrase...

Not to prod, but there are many thousands of other gods that Hitchens doesn't believe in. The one you mention is merely the one you believe in. Your statement could equally be applied to Zeus, Allah, Athenes, etc. Everyone is an atheist, just some people go one god further.

[GoldenArm9]

How are we blesses right now?

There is a crazy winter going on in the north east, historic flooding in Indiana and a small town in Wisconsin town is almost being erased off the planet right now.

If we are blessed now with so many blind, deaf, mentally challenged and miscarried babies being born everyday.
I just talking about things in nature here in my points.

So just how are blessed again.
Ever since man sinned in the Garden of Eden we have had all of the above ...this is going to lambasted but It's been done before ...

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

Ever since man sinned in the Garden of Eden we have had all of the above ...this is going to lambasted but It's been done before ...

yeah who would have thought all of the misery humans have suffered throughout recorded history is because a man ate an apple.

amazing what people convince themselves of.

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

Not to prod, but there are many thousands of other gods that Hitchens doesn't believe in. The one you mention is merely the one you believe in. Your statement could equally be applied to Zeus, Allah, Athenes, etc. Everyone is an atheist, just some people go one god further.

awesome, he says almost that exact statement in the debate

infact he says that man has worshiped over 10,000 gods

[GoldenArm9]

yeah who would have thought all of the misery humans have suffered throughout recorded history is because a man ate an apple.

amazing what people convince themselves of.
It wasn't the eating of the fruit it was the disobedience ....

[Danno]

No but God has blessed the U.S. because of our support to Israel ..if that support was ever pulled then watch out ...

Isn't that technically terrorism? Support us or else.... ;)

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

It wasn't the eating of the fruit it was the disobedience ....


so god put the first two humans in a garden, puts a tree there with the most delicious fruit they have ever seen, and says "dont eat from this tree"

of course he knows just like any children, they would eat it.

and for this disobedience we are all guilty?!?

god doesn't even care that the devil came and convinced eve to eat it? he gives us no leniency for being coerced by a fallen angel?!?

sounds very fishy, sounds like it was god's full intention for adam and eve to disobey

[Eleden]

No but God has blessed the U.S. because of our support to Israel ..if that support was ever pulled then watch out ...

If people base their foreign policy around religion than watch out... oh wait.

[GoldenArm9]

If countries base their foreign policy around religion than watch out... oh wait.
Oh you mean a promise that has proved itself over and over again?:hmm:

[Danno]

so god put the first two humans in a garden, puts a tree there with the most delicious fruit they have ever seen, and says "dont eat from this tree"

of course he knows just like any children, they would eat it.

and for this disobedience we are all guilty?!?

god doesn't even care that the devil came and convinced eve to eat it? he gives us no leniency for being coerced by a fallen angel?!?

sounds very fishy, sounds like it was god's full intention for adam and eve to disobey


Well God is frequently described to be Omniscient and Omnipotent. So kind of HAD to know, really. I guess that would mean, God never really intended for man to live in Paradise... right?

[Eleden]

Oh you mean a promise that has proved itself over and over again?:hmm:

You mean through the senseless slaughters during the Crusades?

[GoldenArm9]

so god put the first two humans in a garden, puts a tree there with the most delicious fruit they have ever seen, and says "dont eat from this tree"

of course he knows just like any children, they would eat it.

and for this disobedience we are all guilty?!?

god doesn't even care that the devil came and convinced eve to eat it? he gives us no leniency for being coerced by a fallen angel?!?

sounds very fishy, sounds like it was god's full intention for adam and eve to disobey
Adam and Eve weren't puppets ..they had there own free will but they chose to disobey ....

[Eleden]

Since we're on the topic of god... I have a simple question.

How did God come about? What created him... and what exactly is he?

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

Adam and Eve weren't puppets ..they had there own free will but they chose to disobey ....

they were the first humans to ever live, they received no education, had no life experience, were basically blank slates, and because they simply eat fruit that god told them not to, we are all guilty?

does't that sound crazy?

i mean i could buy it if say adam murdered eve or did something actually evil, but to eat something your parents told you not to?!?!

how do you wrap your mind around that crap enough to believe it?!

[philhos]

Since we're on the topic of god... I have a simple question.

How did God come about? What created him... and what exactly is he?

No one created God. He has always been. There is no beginning to Him and no ending either.

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

No one created God. He has always been. There is no beginning to Him and no ending either.

that would actually fall perfectly into scientific laws if you just replaced the word god with matter.

[GoldenArm9]

Since we're on the topic of god... I have a simple question.

How did God come about? What created him... and what exactly is he?
Moses basically asked God these same 3 questions but all rolled into one ...Moses said when they ask me your name what do i tell them...
God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" Exodus 3:14 NASB
When you begin to think about describing God you find that He is totally different than us. He is completely separate from us. He is holy. He is not 100 times more holy than us or 1000 times more holy than us. He is completely separated from us by His perfection. There is no way we can attain His holiness. The only way we can bridge this gap is through Jesus Christ. Only through Jesus can we come to know the great I AM.
That is my way of answering you ....

[Danno]

No one created God. He has always been. There is no beginning to Him and no ending either.



I bet he gets pretty bored. Thats probably why he invented Physics, Biology, Chemistry, etc etc in his spare time :thumbsup: Turned out pretty well for us with that creation of the universe thing.

God's into Details.

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

Moses basically asked God these same 3 questions but all rolled into one ...Moses said when they ask me your name what do i tell them...
God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" Exodus 3:14 NASB
When you begin to think about describing God you find that He is totally different than us. He is completely separate from us. He is holy. He is not 100 times more holy than us or 1000 times more holy than us. He is completely separated from us by His perfection. There is no way we can attain His holiness. The only way we can bridge this gap is through Jesus Christ. Only through Jesus can we come to know the great I AM.
That is my way of answering you ....


white noise.

it's funny you view god as a man.

the being created the universe, and everything in it, trillions of light years of space. it has been controlling the universe for trillions of years.

yet in your mind, god has a *****.

[GoldenArm9]

they were the first humans to ever live, they received no education, had no life experience, were basically blank slates, and because they simply eat fruit that god told them not to, we are all guilty?

does't that sound crazy?

i mean i could buy it if say adam murdered eve or did something actually evil, but to eat something your parents told you not to?!?!

how do you wrap your mind around that crap enough to believe it?!
Actually there were the most intelligent individuals ever created ..they had all the knowledge of God except for the knowledge of good and evil ...

[philhos]

I bet he gets pretty bored. Thats probably why he invented Physics, Biology, Chemistry, etc etc in his spare time :thumbsup: Turned out pretty well for us with that creation of the universe thing.

God's into Details.

God's obviously got a sense of humor, too. Who else would put a waste disposal system in the middle of a great recreational area?

[devils advocate]

God,the all knowing and all seeing provided sin to the first and redemption in his sun.Did he make a mistake?Which came first,god or the cosmos?

If you are open minded,wish to be enlightened,or simply need guidance, please watch this movie http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

It explains how jesus is only one of many in the worshipping of the sun.Describes parallels between him and other gods such as Horas and many other fascinating facts.Don't be afraid to learn.The intro is about five minutes long feel free to skip this part.

[Danno]

God's obviously got a sense of humor, too. Who else would put a waste disposal system in the middle of a great recreational area?


Hahahaha

Or make is so a bone in the ear makes cough or make you feel like you will vomit.

Or those funny faces people make during their "moments"

[34inXXIII]

God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"
God is Dennis Green. :smirk:

[Danno]

God is Dennis Green. :smirk:


Liar, God is Alanis Morissette. I saw it in Dogma. :p


and she can do Handstands.

[philhos]

Liar, God is Alanis Morissette. I saw it in Dogma. :p


and she can do Handstands.

And walk around town naked, singing, with her hair and shadows covering her naughty bits.

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

Actually there were the most intelligent individuals ever created ..they had all the knowledge of God except for the knowledge of good and evil ...

AHHHHH!!!!!!!!

so god gives them all the knowlegde of the world, but conveniently leaves out good and evil?!?!

then the devil conveniently persuades them to do something wrong, even though they have no idea of right and wrong??

the more you talk, the more it sounds like our guilt is god's will, we didn't land on the garden of edan the garden of eden landed on us!!

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

God's obviously got a sense of humor, too. Who else would put a waste disposal system in the middle of a great recreational area?

yeah i never understood why god put the playground right next to the dump.


not a very good city planner.

[GoldenArm9]

AHHHHH!!!!!!!!

so god gives them all the knowlegde of the world, but conveniently leaves out good and evil?!?!

then the devil conveniently persuades them to do something wrong, even though they have no idea of right and wrong??

the more you talk, the more it sounds like our guilt is god's will, we didn't land on the garden of edan the garden of eden landed on us!!
The bottom line is God did not want any of what is going on today to happen but it did ..so God sent his Son to pay the ultimate price for us by dieing for us ...but man thinks they are smarter than the Creator and look where it has lead us ...the more we try to 'fix' 'change' things the worse it gets over all

[devils advocate]

Speculation!!


If the existence of god were to be argued in the court of law.The court would not rule in favor of existence for lack of evidence.

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

The bottom line is God did not want any of what is going on today to happen but it did ..so God sent his Son to pay the ultimate price for us by dieing for us ...but man thinks they are smarter than the Creator and look where it has lead us ...the more we try to 'fix' 'change' things the worse it gets over all

how can you say god did not want any of what is going today to happen?

do you how dumb that makes god look?

to think it didn't know what would happen means it's not omniscient, but obviously it is.

so since we know god intended for the world to be this way, the question is why?

[barryllium]

I bet he gets pretty bored. Thats probably why he invented Physics, Biology, Chemistry, etc etc in his spare time :thumbsup: Turned out pretty well for us with that creation of the universe thing.

God's into Details.

How dare you. Chemistry was clearly created by Satan.
















I hate Chemistry. Totally killed my GPA in college. Well, that, video games, and drinking...

[GoldenArm9]

so god put the first two humans in a garden, puts a tree there with the most delicious fruit they have ever seen, and says "dont eat from this tree"

of course he knows just like any children, they would eat it.

and for this disobedience we are all guilty?!?


god doesn't even care that the devil came and convinced eve to eat it? he gives us no leniency for being coerced by a fallen angel?!?

sounds very fishy, sounds like it was god's full intention for adam and eve to disobey

Ok sloppy this guy couldn't say it any better ..i found this video months ago and forgot about till now ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0khsot_hNWs