Obama To Dismantle U.S. Military

[GoldenArm9]

This link is provided by Investors Business Daily ...
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=297645696465868
and here is the video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o84PE871BE

It's funny how this has been conveniently kept off the news ...:hmm:

[jamiethelanky]

I'm not even going to read them simply on how ludicrous the title is.

[Eleden]

This link is provided by Investors Business Daily ...
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=297645696465868
and here is the video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o84PE871BE

It's funny how this has been conveniently kept off the news ...:hmm:

You mean we won't be wasting 50 percent of our budget funding war programs like Star Wars and the Gay Bomb Project? We're doomed!!!

How can our military operate properly if we're not spending a trillion dollars on it every year? <_<

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

ok i gotta admit that scared me

he basically said he's going to remove america as the world's military power

and then he said his job will be protecting the american people

how exactly??!

[GoldenArm9]

You mean we won't be wasting 50 percent of our budget funding war programs like Star Wars and the Gay Bomb Project? We're doomed!!!

How can our military operate properly if we're not spending a trillion dollars on it every year? <_<
Hmmm this is the same military that keeps you safe ....

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

You mean we won't be wasting 50 percent of our budget funding war programs like Star Wars and the Gay Bomb Project? We're doomed!!!



you do understand that the star wars program would give us complete impunity to icbms right?

[jamiethelanky]

Hmmm this is the same military that keeps you safe ....
But at an astronomical cost compared to the rest of the world...

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

But at an astronomical cost compared to the rest of the world...

yeah and who's got the #1 military?

[jamiethelanky]

yeah and who's got the #1 military?
Go USA woot !!!!1111!!!!!!!111!!!!!

This isn't a football franchise, you cannot have #1 militaries. You hsouldn't. You should have enough as is sufficient to defend the country and not be a waste of money.

[Eleden]

you do understand that the star wars program would give us complete impunity to icbms right?

You do realize that after decades of work and billions of dollar thrown away...it still doesn't work.

[GoldenArm9]

You mean we won't be wasting 50 percent of our budget funding war programs like Star Wars and the Gay Bomb Project? We're doomed!!!

How can our military operate properly if we're not spending a trillion dollars on it every year? <_<

Wait a minute ..i see the light now ..let's take that 50% and put it towards this ....
http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pagename=podcast_schumer0508_porker

I feel much safer now ....:smirk:

[Eleden]

Wait a minute ..i see the light now ..let's take that 50% and put it towards this ....
http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pagename=podcast_schumer0508_porker

I feel much safer now ....:smirk:

Please point out where in my original post I said "let's put all the money into pork"

How about instead of spending our precious tax dollars on foreign occupation... let's actually spend it here in America. Hey, I'll even compromise and let the 50% of our budget we blow on the military go towards a massive tax break for the middle class/poor.

[jamiethelanky]

Wait a minute ..i see the light now ..let's take that 50% and put it towards this ....
http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pagename=podcast_schumer0508_porker

I feel much safer now ....:smirk:
Or why not effective policing, better services, public funding for museums to ensure free entry, better state education, better state healthcare, better state reaction to emergencies, better public transport, new energies...

[GoldenArm9]

Please point out where in my original post I said "let's put all the money into pork"

How about instead of spending our precious tax dollars on foreign occupation... let's actually spend it here in America. Hey, I'll even compromise and let the 50% of our budget we blow on the military go towards a massive tax break for the middle class/poor.

We could save money in other areas and not touch the military but we as tax payers keep allowing money wasting projects to keep marching along.

[Eleden]

We could save money in other areas and not touch the military but we as tax payers keep allowing money wasting projects to keep marching along.

For once I actually agree with you. Personally I think we need to address both pork and excess military spending.

Social Security is going bankrupt yet we can spend hundreds of billions of dollars a year on the military and pet projects for politicians?

[Ericw712]

Or why not effective policing, better services, public funding for museums to ensure free entry, better state education, better state healthcare, better state reaction to emergencies, better public transport, new energies...


So in other words spend it on becoming a socialist state?

http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/communism_its_a_party.jpg

[Ericw712]

Go USA woot !!!!1111!!!!!!!111!!!!!

This isn't a football franchise, you cannot have #1 militaries. You hsouldn't. You should have enough as is sufficient to defend the country and not be a waste of money.

The problem is, the world sees the US as the world's police army & protector. If we disarm and pull out of conflicts or refuse to send military support, we're the bad guys, and if we add military aid or lead a UN initiative we're bullies.

I'm not saying that our military spending is justified, but also notice how many commonly used items have been invented as a direct result of military spending... oh say, like this fancy internets thing we all love.

[Eleden]

The problem is, the world sees the US as the world's police army & protector. If we disarm and pull out of conflicts or refuse to send military support, we're the bad guys, and if we add military aid or lead a UN initiative we're bullies.

I'm not saying that our military spending is justified, but also notice how many commonly used items have been invented as a direct result of military spending... oh say, like this fancy internets thing we all love.

You do have a point there. However, do you really think the world community would've been angry if we hadn't invaded Iraq?

Also I disagree that the world sees us as a protector. IMO they see us as sort of an older sibling who's there to help when someone scrapes their knee (conflict that threatens world community) or when someone catches the flu (natural disaster). The way I see it now... the United States is acting like the overprotective mom that winds up screwing up their kid. Not the greatest analogy but hopefully you see my point. :smirk:

[Ericw712]

You do have a point there. However, do you really think the world community would've been angry if we hadn't invaded Iraq?

Also I disagree that the world sees us as a protector. IMO they see us as sort of an older sibling who's there to help when someone scrapes their knee (conflict that threatens world community) or when someone catches the flu (natural disaster). The way I see it now... the United States is acting like the overprotective mom that winds up screwing up their kid. Not the greatest analogy but hopefully you see my point. :smirk:
True on Iraq but I still say that if we hadn't come to the call in gulf war & kosovo the world would hate us (see: Somalia).

Its a catch-22 for the "have's" we get criticized for not helping enough (militarily or humanitarian aide), and we get crucified for over-extending.

Sorry, but its not as easy a task as every peace-nik or war-mongerer thinks.

[busamboy]

You mean we won't be wasting 50 percent of our budget funding war programs like Star Wars and the Gay Bomb Project? We're doomed!!!

How can our military operate properly if we're not spending a trillion dollars on it every year? <_<

The real question should be why do we mess with everyone to have to spend that much on a defense budget:hmm:

[n8lhf]

You do have a point there. However, do you really think the world community would've been angry if we hadn't invaded Iraq?

Also I disagree that the world sees us as a protector. IMO they see us as sort of an older sibling who's there to help when someone scrapes their knee (conflict that threatens world community) or when someone catches the flu (natural disaster). The way I see it now... the United States is acting like the overprotective mom that winds up screwing up their kid. Not the greatest analogy but hopefully you see my point. :smirk:

IMHO, I would say that the world sees us more as the school yard bully, than the older sibling.

"Second, I will cut tens of billions of dollars in wasteful spending. I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems. I will not weaponize space. I will slow our development of future combat systems.

It didn't sound to me as if he was going to "gut" the military. It sounds as if he is going to try and stem the tide of wasteful spending that this government allows every year, you know like the bridge to nowhere. Star Wars missile defense has been around since the Reagan era and there still doesn't seem to be something that works.
I remember being in the military during the Reagan-era and we spent month after month wondering if we were going to get paid.

[Shotgun-toting Chipmunk]

"I will slow our development of future combat systems"

This alone is just about enough to tell me I don't want this man as Commander in Chief.

The FCS program is meant to allow Army soldiers to be more effective and provide them better protection. It emcompasses better armor (for both troops and vehicles), improved communications and blue force tracking capabilities, technologies to reduce fatigue and other stressors for troops (ie temperature control systems, robotic "mules", etc), and unmanned combat vehicles. Not to mention weapons technology improvements that will further enhance our soldiers' capabilities.

I can understand the idea that the FCS program could be more efficient cost-wise, but to "slow our development" of a system that will save American lives and make them more combat effective is just plain stupid.

There are several reasons we spend so much money on our military. One is deterrence. If you're strong enough, people won't mess with you. If we allow other countries to catch up with us in terms of technology, someone might just try taking a swing. Another is the value we place on the lives of our soldiers. War is dangerous, but if you ask me every dollar we spend to make our troops better and improve their chance of getting home in one piece is a dollar well spent.

If you really want to cut military spending, develop a United States Humanitarian Corps. Let those guys be responsible for disaster relief, overseas food programs, and other projects that take away from the military's primary mission. Not only can we reallocate funds that the military uses for humanitarian missions, but the program can be bolstered by donations. It would also further improve the military's capability, letting them focus more on military matters/training and keeping them from being streched quite so thin.

[jamiethelanky]

So in other words spend it on becoming a socialist state?

http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/communism_its_a_party.jpg
If wanting better health, education and safety for people is being communist then give me a cigar and call me Castro.

[NashvilleBengalfan]

If wanting better health, education and safety for people is being communist then give me a cigar and call me Castro.

Or... work hard go to school get a education go find a good job, and then you can afford your own health care and to buy your own ticket to the museum and don’t rely on the government to take care of you.

[jamiethelanky]

Or... work hard go to school get a education go find a good job, and then you can afford your own health care and to buy your own ticket to the museum and don’t rely on the government to take care of you.
Go to school, which is woefully underfunded, never get a chance at an education, be put off going to museums because of the price and live and die in ignorance. Some things are necessary - health and education amongst them.

[IgnoreME]

Go to school, which is woefully underfunded, never get a chance at an education, be put off going to museums because of the price and live and die in ignorance. Some things are necessary - health and education amongst them.

I agree with education, but healthcare can be provided with out a universal health care system. If you want to improve health care (verb) then I am all for it. But if you are speaking as health care as the coverage that each person gets, then you are wrong. I do not want the government telling me where I need to go to get treated, I do not want the government to provide me with my health care plan. I do not want to PAY for other's health care. I can find my own insurence and pay my own medical dues just like everyone else should.

[jamiethelanky]

I agree with education, but healthcare can be provided with out a universal health care system. If you want to improve health care (verb) then I am all for it. But if you are speaking as health care as the coverage that each person gets, then you are wrong. I do not want the government telling me where I need to go to get treated, I do not want the government to provide me with my health care plan. I do not want to PAY for other's health care. I can find my own insurence and pay my own medical dues.
It's unconsciable for a nation of the strength of the United States to not allow its citizens healthcare free at the point of use.

There is a well-known and well-loved member on these boards who contracted a very nasty illness and she's forsaking the education she wants and the respite she needs as she has to work to pay off her medical bills. This honestly shouldn't happen.

[BANJAXED]

It's unconsciable for a nation of the strength of the United States to not allow its citizens healthcare free at the point of use.

There is a well-known and well-loved member on these boards who contracted a very nasty illness and she's forsaking the education she wants and the respite she needs as she has to work to pay off her medical bills. This honestly shouldn't happen.

It's all about the type of medical coverage that you have. Some companies have great packages and others do not - it's something that an employee needs to really think about before they get into the job.

Also, if the person is unable to get individual insurance due to a preexisting condition (and doesn't have a job or is self-employed) - then they need to look at even getting a part-time job so they can take advantage of the guaranteed coverage/enrollment. (I.e. Starbucks?)

[IgnoreME]

It's unconsciable for a nation of the strength of the United States to not allow its citizens healthcare free at the point of use.

There is a well-known and well-loved member on these boards who contracted a very nasty illness and she's forsaking the education she wants and the respite she needs as she has to work to pay off her medical bills. This honestly shouldn't happen.

(No disrespect) but Coverage can be extended for students attending college from parents until they have completed their education.

[Ericw712]

It's unconsciable for a nation of the strength of the United States to not allow its citizens healthcare free at the point of use.

There is a well-known and well-loved member on these boards who contracted a very nasty illness and she's forsaking the education she wants and the respite she needs as she has to work to pay off her medical bills. This honestly shouldn't happen.

Just so I understand, we are in a thread talking about how the US government is mismanaging the military and basically most foreign policy, yet you are a proponent of letting that same government be in charge of providing a comprehensive, cost-effective health-care plan for all of its citizens (plus all of the illegal immigrants we already give free aide to).

Chalk that up there with welfare, veteran's care, social security and other government initiatives that are failing at this point. We'll have free care but, remember in this case, you get what you pay for.

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

Go USA woot !!!!1111!!!!!!!111!!!!!

This isn't a football franchise, you cannot have #1 militaries. You hsouldn't. You should have enough as is sufficient to defend the country and not be a waste of money.

but how do you know what is sufficient to defend the country?

you have to understand that we don't own our freedom, it was paid for by those who died before us to secure it, we are merely custodians of that freedom and the only way to maintain it is to show the world we're untouchable.

[jamiethelanky]

Just so I understand, we are in a thread talking about how the US government is mismanaging the military and basically most foreign policy, yet you are a proponent of letting that same government be in charge of providing a comprehensive, cost-effective health-care plan for all of its citizens (plus all of the illegal immigrants we already give free aide to).

Chalk that up there with welfare, veteran's care, social security and other government initiatives that are failing at this point. We'll have free care but, remember in this case, you get what you pay for.
The ideas are great, it's just a case of your country voting in anyone who is competent...

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

You do realize that after decades of work and billions of dollar thrown away...it still doesn't work.

you're an american, not a quitter.

[IgnoreME]

The ideas are great, it's just a case of your country voting in anyone who is competent...

So then by association you are retorting that American citizens are incompetent?

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

obama doesn't understand how hated america is. we've been making enemies for 200+ years and now he wants us to appear weak...

[jamiethelanky]

So then by association you are retorting that American citizens are incompetent?
Well... if you want the incompetence of your leaders projected on yourself as a nation then yes.

[Ericw712]

The ideas are great, it's just a case of your country voting in anyone who is competent...
"Career" Politicians are the problem, there is no actual competency criteria. Its a country wide popularity contest.

Socialism is a great idea too, but many great ideas only work in theory. In reality, our politicians are still human, so they look out for their own interests instead of the good of the country. It is sad but it is also human nature.

[jamiethelanky]

obama doesn't understand how hated america is. we've been making enemies for 200+ years and now he wants us to appear weak...
Perhaps humility will help the States, instead of seeing yourself not "weak" enough to consult the international community...

[IgnoreME]

obama doesn't understand how hated america is. we've been making enemies for 200+ years and now he wants us to appear weak...

I don't think that he WANTS to do this, although what he wants to do will surely do this.

I think that he is inexperienced or is dilusional to what diplomacy can actually do.

There is not diplomacy with a madman (Ahmenijad (sp)).

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

Perhaps humility will help the States, instead of seeing yourself not "weak" enough to consult the international community...

the american people dont want anything to do with the international community, we want to live in the greatest country on earth and feel safe doing it.

[Ericw712]

Perhaps humility will help the States, instead of seeing yourself not "weak" enough to consult the international community...
Its easy for other countries to say that about the USA. Does China "consult" the international community? No. Does anyone really give them grief for it? No.

[jamiethelanky]

the american people dont want anything to do with the international community, we want to live in the greatest country on earth and feel safe doing it.
But there are people who are not in the greatest nations in the world. There are people being killed by regimes. Surely as a human being you care about that...

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

I don't think that he WANTS to do this, although what he wants to do will surely do this.

I think that he is inexperienced or is dilusional to what diplomacy can actually do.

There is not diplomacy with a madman (Ahmenijad (sp)).

yeah it's going to be interesting to see the debates

mccain is going to make him look like a child.

im not even republican but the democrats want to remove us as the world's superpower and thats crazy.

[jamiethelanky]

Its easy for other countries to say that about the USA. Does China "consult" the international community? No. Does anyone really give them grief for it? No.
Human Rights Watch regularly do. It just seems that those in the money (the IOC, companies looking to make a quick profit) lose their consciences because of the money.

That's a true pity.

[GoldenArm9]

We do not have to consult with anybody .....that's the bottom line ....

[Ocho_Cinco85]

Its easy for other countries to say that about the USA. Does China "consult" the international community? No. Does anyone really give them grief for it? No.I agree.

[jamiethelanky]

mccain is going to make him look like a child.
John McCain could make anyone look like a child. Even Joan Collins. Even Cher

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

But there are people who are not in the greatest nations in the world. There are people being killed by regimes. Surely as a human being you care about that...

sure i care but every time we do something about the international community says we're interfering and being imperialists.

look at all the people who were overjoyed about saddam gone but the international community only talks about how much we screwed up iraq, not that we helped people. at least we tried.

[Ericw712]

But there are people who are not in the greatest nations in the world. There are people being killed by regimes. Surely as a human being you care about that...

My point exactly, no one thinks that its China's duty to come to the aide of other nations but if the US adopted isolationism as a forigen policy then we would be crucified by the "international community"

We stay out of people's business we are "uncaring" we get involed and we're bullies.

[jamiethelanky]

We do not have to consult with anybody .....that's the bottom line ....
And why not? What makes the USA so great? Is it because you are a 'Master Race' or something, the best of the best? That would have significant historical overtones.

[jamiethelanky]

Its easy for other countries to say that about the USA. Does China "consult" the international community? No. Does anyone really give them grief for it? No.
But why must the United States drop to the level of China. That would be sheer petulance...

[CloeHokie]

yeah it's going to be interesting to see the debates

mccain is going to make him look like a child.

im not even republican but the democrats want to remove us as the world's superpower and thats crazy.

Have you seen them both speak? Mccain cant even remember his own stance on things more than 1/2 of the time and fumbles his words. Obama will destroy him in an open debate. Lucky for McCain the media will be picking the questions.

[jamiethelanky]

We stay out of people's business we are "uncaring" we get involed and we're bullies.
You sure about that. You are loved in Kosovo for helping out there, with the International Community behind you. If you put a case for war in Iraq through the UN and had it passed I'm sure nations would jump to your support. If you choose to ignore poverty, and natural and man-made disasters, then you deserve criticism.

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

Have you seen them both speak? Mccain cant even remember his own stance on things more than 1/2 of the time and fumbles his words. Obama will destroy him in an open debate. Lucky for McCain the media will be picking the questions.

how will obama answer this question:

how do you plan to defend the american people after you remove us as the world's military superpower?

[GoldenArm9]

And why not? What makes the USA so great? Is it because you are a 'Master Race' or something, the best of the best? That would have significant historical overtones.
Last time i checked our Constitution stated that the President was sworn to protect the Citizens of the United States and not the 'Global' community ...

[jamiethelanky]

Last time i checked our Constitution stated that the President was sworn to protect the Citizens of the United States and not the 'Global' community ...
Last time I checked you were still in the world and most people had consciences. Most people I hope wouldn't mind a few of their tax dollars stopping people dying, whether they be lucky enough to be citizens of the USA or not.

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

And why not? What makes the USA so great? Is it because you are a 'Master Race' or something, the best of the best? That would have significant historical overtones.

we gots guns, lots and lots of them. might makes right, but when other countries have the might, they have empires.

think about it.

who would you rather have sitting atop the world? russia, china, or america?

you know it's going to be on one of the three

[jamiethelanky]

how will obama answer this question:

how do you plan to defend the american people after you remove us as the world's military superpower?
He would ignore it, because it is borne in ignorance.

[Ocho_Cinco85]

Last time i checked our Constitution stated that the President was sworn to protect the Citizens of the United States and not the 'Global' community ...Agreed.

[jamiethelanky]

we gots guns, lots and lots of them. might makes right, but when other countries have the might, they have empires.

think about it.

who would you rather have sitting atop the world? russia, china, or america?

you know it's going to be on one of the three
I'd rather have the UN, a multi-national organisation where every nation gets a say.

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

I'd rather have the UN, a multi-national organisation where every nation gets a say.

with zero power.

america proved that.

the UN could dissolve overnight, at any time.

[Ocho_Cinco85]

we gots guns, lots and lots of them. might makes right, but when other countries have the might, they have empires.

think about it.

who would you rather have sitting atop the world? russia, china, or america?
you know it's going to be on one of the threeI'll agree with you there. America is definetly the safer choice.

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

He would ignore it, because it is borne in ignorance.

enlighten me as to what im being ignorant of.

[BANJAXED]

I'd rather have the UN, a multi-national organisation where every nation gets a say.

UN = all talk and no cahones

[jamiethelanky]

with zero power.

america proved that.

the UN could dissolve overnight, at any time.
Then get the UN some power, like it needs. It has peace-keeping forces, be part of them, use them.

[Ericw712]

Human Rights Watch regularly do. It just seems that those in the money (the IOC, companies looking to make a quick profit) lose their consciences because of the money.

That's a true pity.

And yet we take the fall... that's the true pity.

We're like the guy who gives aide to a homeless man, now all those in need are pleeding with this guy to give them aide as well. The man is now stuck in a pinch, after helping someone in need he is now "expected" to help everyone in need.

[thefo0]

we as tax payers keep allowing money wasting projects to keep marching along.

But, then how would our politicians get reelected? We have to think of their job security!!! :sarcasm:

[jamiethelanky]

enlighten me as to what im being ignorant of.
Because reducing military spending does not mean the USA fails to become adequately defended. If I were President, I'd avoid the spin. This isn't cricket.

[jamiethelanky]

And yet we take the fall... that's the true pity.

We're like the guy who gives aide to a homeless man, now all those in need are pleeding with this guy to give them aide as well. The man is now stuck in a pinch, after helping someone in need he is now "expected" to help everyone in need.
So is the rest of the international community. The biggest giver regarding foreign aid in terms of % GDP is Norway. Be part of the Interantional community, we all hve responsibility, not just you.

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

Then get the UN some power, like it needs. It has peace-keeping forces, be part of them, use them.

but the UN is not a governing body, it can't have power. it has no control over anything, it's a loose "meeting" of nations, like i said it could dissolve at any time

[Ocho_Cinco85]

And yet we take the fall... that's the true pity.

We're like the guy who gives aide to a homeless man, now all those in need are pleeding with this guy to give them aide as well. The man is now stuck in a pinch, after helping someone in need he is now "expected" to help everyone in need.Very true.

[GoldenArm9]

we gots guns, lots and lots of them. might makes right, but when other countries have the might, they have empires.

think about it.

who would you rather have sitting atop the world? russia, china, or america?

you know it's going to be on one of the three
Your post brings up a question i've had for awhile ....when there are natural disasters around the world when was the last time we as Americans have seen the Chinese and the Russians or any other country send aid except through the U.N.?Not only do we send aid through the U.N. we send it directly ourselves.

[jamiethelanky]

but the UN is not a governing body, it can't have power. it has no control over anything, it's a loose "meeting" of nations, like i said it could dissolve at any time
You sure it can't?

It can already make mandates, why can't it be backed up by something more threatening.

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

So is the rest of the international community. The biggest giver regarding foreign aid in terms of % GDP is Norway. Be part of the Interantional community, we all hve responsibility, not just you.

thats a weak argument. thats like the the poor woman who gives two pennys to the church but it's more than anybody because its all she has...

who actually gives the most money for foreign aid? america,

[CloeHokie]

how will obama answer this question:

how do you plan to defend the american people after you remove us as the world's military superpower?

Answer: When did he say he was going to not defend the counrty? He said he would focus the spending on a defense program and stop wasting money on unproven missle systems. Fact is we do spend way too much money in this area. I do not want to stop spending money on developing new projects as he stated however. But its only a short clip. Not enough details.

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

You sure it can't?

It can already make mandates, why can't it be backed up by something more threatening.

why?? because it's nothing.

what would happen if countries just removed themselves from the UN? nothing.

like i said, it could dissolve over night.

[Ericw712]

So is the rest of the international community. The biggest giver regarding foreign aid in terms of % GDP is Norway. Be part of the Interantional community, we all hve responsibility, not just you.

Link?

[jamiethelanky]

Your post brings up a question i've had for awhile ....when there are natural disasters around the world when was the last time we as Americans have seen the Chinese and the Russians or any other country send aid except through the U.N.?Not only do we send aid through the U.N. we send it directly ourselves.
China: http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/09/18/asia/web.0918aid.php
Russia: http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080509/107008846.html

Just because your media doesn't focus on it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[jamiethelanky]

Link?
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp#ForeignAidNumbersinChartsandGraphs

Source OECD.

[thefo0]

China: http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/09/18/asia/web.0918aid.php
Russia: http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080509/107008846.html

Just because your media doesn't focus on it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Hey, it's not our fault that our news is so highly corporatized that it only shows one perspective. :sarcasm:

But, on a more serious note, I just got cable television again and it amazes me how much better the BBC World News is than any of the American offerings. Major stories, like the political upheaval in South Korea have been barely mentioned in the States. That and they cover the Euro Cup, which makes me happy.

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

Answer: When did he say he was going to not defend the counrty? He said he would focus the spending on a defense program and stop wasting money on unproven missle systems. Fact is we do spend way too much money in this area. I do not want to stop spending money on developing new projects as he stated however. But its only a short clip. Not enough details.

the PLA is 2.3 million strong

but it could go up by 1000% at any time.

russians have 2 million

but it could go up by 1000% at any time.

they all wish they could spend the same amount of money we do, and are very close to doing so.

by comparison america's military is 1 mil.

we need that spending to make up for our lack of numbers. plain and simple, they have more.

[Ericw712]

China: http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/09/18/asia/web.0918aid.php
Russia: http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080509/107008846.html

Just because your media doesn't focus on it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

That's suprising, seeing as I think our media hates the US more than other countries do.

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp#ForeignAidNumbersinChartsandGraphs

Source OECD.

Thank you

[jamiethelanky]

Hey, it's not our fault that our news is so highly corporatized that it only shows one perspective. :sarcasm:

But, on a more serious note, I just got cable television again and it amazes me how much better the BBC World News is than any of the American offerings. Major stories, like the political upheaval in South Korea have been barely mentioned in the States. That and they cover the Euro Cup, which makes me happy.
Just about to watch Portugal vs. Czech Republic.

I hate Portugal, so come on the Czechs!

[THEBURG]

Elect John Mccain, he will have more trouble remembering, than Teagan did, only song he knows is bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran, that is what some of you idiots want running our country, yes I said IDIOTS.

[thefo0]

Just about to watch Portugal vs. Czech Republic.

I hate Portugal, so come on the Czechs!

I know this is off-topic, but I had to add it: I hate Portugal too, especially the pretty boy (Ronaldo).

[jmccracky]

Elect John Mccain, he will have more trouble remembering, than Teagan did, only song he knows is bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran, that is what some of you idiots want running our country, yes I said IDIOTS.

http://boards.bengals.com/showthread.php?t=21258

:thumbsup:

[GoldenArm9]

China: http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/09/18/asia/web.0918aid.php
Russia: http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080509/107008846.html

Just because your media doesn't focus on it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Ok Jamie I'll give that to ya but and yes i have to throw a but in there because communist countries IMO don't do anything without wanting something in return ..

[jamiethelanky]

Ok Jamie I'll give that to ya but and yes i have to throw a but in there because communist countries IMO don't do anything without wanting something in return ..
And does the United States?

[barryllium]

You do have a point there. However, do you really think the world community would've been angry if we hadn't invaded Iraq?

Also I disagree that the world sees us as a protector. IMO they see us as sort of an older sibling who's there to help when someone scrapes their knee (conflict that threatens world community) or when someone catches the flu (natural disaster). The way I see it now... the United States is acting like the overprotective mom that winds up screwing up their kid. Not the greatest analogy but hopefully you see my point. :smirk:

I agree with this. What I seem to be seeing is that the rest of the world has issues with how much we play the protector. They liked it when we were there to help, but now we are starting to get a too bit "high and mighty", if you will.

[barryllium]

Or... work hard go to school get a education go find a good job, and then you can afford your own health care and to buy your own ticket to the museum and don’t rely on the government to take care of you.

Not everyone has the same opportunity for a great education. Our public school system in this country - or at least in many parts of this country - are falling behind both the rest of the 1st World countries and many other parts of our country.

[barryllium]

obama doesn't understand how hated america is. we've been making enemies for 200+ years and now he wants us to appear weak...

Gee, if I were in another country, I'd probably call America a terrorist nation for making enemies for that long... :hmm:

[barryllium]

the american people dont want anything to do with the international community, we want to live in the greatest country on earth and feel safe doing it.

...and, America is a teenager again. This description of America is so ridiculously analogous to the teenager that says, "no one understands me, I know everything, and I don't need anyone's help". Well, guess what, if America keeps doing that, the value of the dollar will continue to go down, investors will toss all their money into gold, silver, the euro, the british pound, the swiss franc, and stop investing in the American dollar. Then, we won't be able to trade with G-7 nations anymore, because we won't be able to afford it. Our economy will die, because we'll be exporting everything at such a low cost it garners little profit to sell outside our own nation. Next thing we know, we can't afford to bring anything in, and the dollar takes a nosedive towards the peso.

But you're right, we don't want anything to do with the international community, do we?!?

[barryllium]

Last time i checked our Constitution stated that the President was sworn to protect the Citizens of the United States and not the 'Global' community ...

For once, I agree with GoldenArm9 - at least to a degree (did anyone else's feet just get colder...). The US citizens should be priority number one, and after domestic affairs are steady, then we can worry about foreign issues more. At the moment, this does not seem to be the current agenda of our government as a whole.

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

Gee, if I were in another country, I'd probably call America a terrorist nation for making enemies for that long... :hmm:

much of the rest the world does infact view us that way, im not saying about us being right or wrong, just telling it like is.

[GoldenArm9]

And does the United States?

I knew you would say that i knew as sure as im GA9 ...after WW2 we never demanded a thing from Europe ..we never demanded anything from Germany after the wall fell ..just a couple of examples ...let me just add these weren't natural disasters ....

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

...and, America is a teenager again. This description of America is so ridiculously analogous to the teenager that says, "no one understands me, I know everything, and I don't need anyone's help". Well, guess what, if America keeps doing that, the value of the dollar will continue to go down, investors will toss all their money into gold, silver, the euro, the british pound, the swiss franc, and stop investing in the American dollar. Then, we won't be able to trade with G-7 nations anymore, because we won't be able to afford it. Our economy will die, because we'll be exporting everything at such a low cost it garners little profit to sell outside our own nation. Next thing we know, we can't afford to bring anything in, and the dollar takes a nosedive towards the peso.

But you're right, we don't want anything to do with the international community, do we?!?

whoa you're missing my point completely.

my point is that in general, the american people don't care about what goes on in the world, we are just too well entertained for that. of course we need international commerce, don't jump to conclusions ok?

[NashvilleBengalfan]

Not everyone has the same opportunity for a great education. Our public school system in this country - or at least in many parts of this country - are falling behind both the rest of the 1st World countries and many other parts of our country.



American schools don't teach as well as schools in other countries because they are government monopolies, and monopolies don't have much incentive to compete.
Don't like your public school? Tough. The school is terrible? Tough. Your taxes fund that school regardless of whether it's good or bad. That's why government monopolies routinely fail their customers.

[jamiethelanky]

...after WW2 we never demanded a thing from Europe ..we never demanded anything from Germany after the wall fell ..just a couple of examples ...
Apart from massive repayments. They were actually loans, not aid that you gave us. And still, you think you had no moral duty to vanquish Hitler.

And surely you wanted the newly independent Soviet states on your side. Or maybe I'm just wrong...

[barryllium]

OK, I'm caught up. A few points:

It should be very easy for Obama to cut our nuclear spending - we have already agreed to do so because of the Moscow treaty. We are dismantling many warheads, but still creating new ones too quickly. By creating new ones less quickly, we can cut costs, and still have enough to destroy the world 4-5 times over - by air, sea and land.

Military spending can be cut without "dismantling" the military. A lot of money is wasted building bases and other things when we are pulling out of somewhere in 2-3 months - simply because we issued too high of a contract to someone, and they are simply "spending out the money". If we make smarter contracts, not give in to two or three companies that we have "special relationships with" (Lockhead, Halliburton), and instead create competition between several American companies, we can spend less and also help our national economy, instead of just the economy of 2-3 companies.

In the end, the steps that would need to be taken are not nearly as drastic as many people think they will be.

[barryllium]

whoa you're missing my point completely.

my point is that in general, the american people don't care about what goes on in the world, we are just too well entertained for that. of course we need international commerce, don't jump to conclusions ok?

Well, your view has seemed to be very America-centric, I was merely pointing out that we need to be focused on the international "domino effect" with the economy - one that relies on all aspects of our foreign affairs.

[jamiethelanky]

my point is that in general, the american people don't care about what goes on in the world
So why should the ignorance of the American people (and may I point out, not all the American people) affect sound and conscious foreign policy...

[jamiethelanky]

American schools don't teach as well as schools in other countries because they are government monopolies, and monopolies don't have much incentive to compete.
Don't like your public school? Tough. The school is terrible? Tough. Your taxes fund that school regardless of whether it's good or bad. That's why government monopolies routinely fail their customers.
I went to a State school in Britain and that's come out well. It's a question of funding.

[barryllium]

American schools don't teach as well as schools in other countries because they are government monopolies, and monopolies don't have much incentive to compete.
Don't like your public school? Tough. The school is terrible? Tough. Your taxes fund that school regardless of whether it's good or bad. That's why government monopolies routinely fail their customers.

Our American schools don't teach as well because education is one of the first things that suffer when funding needs to be cut somewhere. And, when new funding arrives, funding is removed somewhere else. For instance, as soon as lottery funds started funding education in Ohio and Indiana, equal funding was removed from the schools that was being provided via tax money. It is undeniable that education funding is too low in this country - especially in a few select states (South Carolina, Mississippi, Indiana, Georgia...).

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

So why should the ignorance of the American people (and may I point out, not all the American people) affect sound and conscious foreign policy...

what exactly is sound and conscious foreign policy?

i would bet your opinion of it is not shared by most americans

[devils advocate]

Education is a government monopoly.It suffers because the government doesn't want its people to be educated,no other reason.We learn what they want us to learn.

[jamiethelanky]

what exactly is sound and conscious foreign policy?

i would bet your opinion of it is not shared by most americans
But I'd bet my opinion is a lot more defendable than any form of selfish isolationism.

[sloppy lombardi slaps]

But I'd bet my opinion is a lot more defendable than any form of selfish isolationism.

the world would collapse if we did that.

china's economy would grind to a halt if we removed ourselves as customers.

we don't want complete isolationism, we just want america to protect it's interests, and stop being world's police, just like everyone hates the cops in america, everyone hates america the cop.

[Ericw712]

And does the United States?
Does the UK? Does any country? No. That's human nature, sorry it *****.

But elitism dosn't make the problem go away.

[philhos]

I went to a State school in Britain and that's come out well. It's a question of funding.

No it's not. Like most things, it's not in how much money you throw at the problem, but how well that money is spent.

I went to public schools and my high school was an excellently run public school. Yet, somehow it was not even close to being the recipient of as much funding as the other schools in the area.

The difference between my high school and the other schools in the area was in how well the money was spent. It was spent well. The building itself was never in disrepair, there were plenty of computer labs (good ol'Apple IIe's), plenty of a/v equipment, GOOD teachers, etc.

We need to focus more on HOW the money was spent not just in HOW MUCH was spent. And that goes for ALL areas of government, not just education.

[thefo0]

No it's not. Like most things, it's not in how much money you throw at the problem, but how well that money is spent.

I went to public schools and my high school was an excellently run public school. Yet, somehow it was not even close to being the recipient of as much funding as the other schools in the area.

The difference between my high school and the other schools in the area was in how well the money was spent. It was spent well. The building itself was never in disrepair, there were plenty of computer labs (good ol'Apple IIe's), plenty of a/v equipment, GOOD teachers, etc.

We need to focus more on HOW the money was spent not just in HOW MUCH was spent. And that goes for ALL areas of government, not just education.

I think you bring up a good point, it is important how money is spent. But, you can't completely discount the affect that the volume of money has on public schools. Using Cincinnati as an example, there is a huge difference between the quality of Indian Hill High School and Withrow and I'm sure that the fact that Indian Hill High School is in one of the richest parts of Ohio has a big part in that.

[philhos]

I think you bring up a good point, it is important how money is spent. But, you can't completely discount the affect that the volume of money has on public schools. Using Cincinnati as an example, there is a huge difference between the quality of Indian Hill High School and Withrow and I'm sure that the fact that Indian Hill High School is in one of the richest parts of Ohio has a big part in that.

Eveything needs money, true. And there is a minimal amount that needs met, but if your solution is to simply through more money at a problem, then you're not really solving anything.

[Ericw712]

No it's not. Like most things, it's not in how much money you throw at the problem, but how well that money is spent.

I went to public schools and my high school was an excellently run public school. Yet, somehow it was not even close to being the recipient of as much funding as the other schools in the area.

The difference between my high school and the other schools in the area was in how well the money was spent. It was spent well. The building itself was never in disrepair, there were plenty of computer labs (good ol'Apple IIe's), plenty of a/v equipment, GOOD teachers, etc.

We need to focus more on HOW the money was spent not just in HOW MUCH was spent. And that goes for ALL areas of government, not just education.

I think you bring up a good point, it is important how money is spent. But, you can't completely discount the affect that the volume of money has on public schools. Using Cincinnati as an example, there is a huge difference between the quality of Indian Hill High School and Withrow and I'm sure that the fact that Indian Hill High School is in one of the richest parts of Ohio has a big part in that.


I think the problem is our reliance on the government to fix the problem.

Using the public schools for an example, Indian Hill probably has a much greater parent involvement then Withrow. Here in Toledo we have a few great public elementary schools in depressed neighborhoods mostly due to the strong support of the individuals in the community.

Personal responsibility.

The government is not responsible for your education, you are. Why do you think people still fail out of top-notch schools? If the individual is not willing to overcome adversity or if their parents are not involved in the process, their potential for success is greatly reduced.

[barryllium]

I think the problem is our reliance on the government to fix the problem.

Using the public schools for an example, Indian Hill probably has a much greater parent involvement then Withrow. Here in Toledo we have a few great public elementary schools in depressed neighborhoods mostly due to the strong support of the individuals in the community.

Personal responsibility.

The government is not responsible for your education, you are. Why do you think people still fail out of top-notch schools? If the individual is not willing to overcome adversity or if their parents are not involved in the process, their potential for success is greatly reduced.

You rightly bring focus to one side of the coin here, Eric. To a certain degree, school always has been and continues to be child care. This is abused by parents who also expect the school to raise their children. More parental involvement in both the lives and education would help a great deal.

This still doesn't solve the fact that most schools are underfunded. In many poor areas, the families cannot afford to be more involved in their child's education because the parents are already working 60 hours a week - partially because they are the product of a poor education system (to a degree this is the residual effect of the lack of a good educational system for african-american and other minority demographics from years gone by, but time is the best healer of this wound - and that's a deeper discussion for another thread). Regardless, while I agree that parents should be held more personally responsible for the education and lives of their children, they can only do so much.

Indiana, for example, has one of the most rapidly declining educational system in the union. A few years ago, they chose to lease the toll road for about 3.85 billion dollars - which not only gave the state immediate money, but also saves in repairs to the road as the company leasing it agreed to pay for a large majority, if not all of the repairs for the duration of the lease. Was any of this money placed into the educational system which had dropped to third worst in the nation? No, the majority of the money was actually placed towards building up Indianapolis - which has some redeeming qualities to it (although the not-so-secret agenda has been to build hotels to be able to hold a Super Bowl in Indy), but was not nearly as big of an issue as the education crisis in Indiana has become (funding had been cut for education years in a row, forcing the laying off of several teachers and cutting of extracurriculars in most districts). In the end, as much as personal responsibility needs to be pushed, it cannot compete against ramped underspending like this, which I am sure is happening in more states than just Indiana.

[Ericw712]

You rightly bring focus to one side of the coin here, Eric. To a certain degree, school always has been and continues to be child care. This is abused by parents who also expect the school to raise their children. More parental involvement in both the lives and education would help a great deal.

This still doesn't solve the fact that most schools are underfunded. In many poor areas, the families cannot afford to be more involved in their child's education because the parents are already working 60 hours a week - partially because they are the product of a poor education system (to a degree this is the residual effect of the lack of a good educational system for african-american and other minority demographics from years gone by, but time is the best healer of this wound - and that's a deeper discussion for another thread). Regardless, while I agree that parents should be held more personally responsible for the education and lives of their children, they can only do so much.

Indiana, for example, has one of the most rapidly declining educational system in the union. A few years ago, they chose to lease the toll road for about 3.85 billion dollars - which not only gave the state immediate money, but also saves in repairs to the road as the company leasing it agreed to pay for a large majority, if not all of the repairs for the duration of the lease. Was any of this money placed into the educational system which had dropped to third worst in the nation? No, the majority of the money was actually placed towards building up Indianapolis - which has some redeeming qualities to it (although the not-so-secret agenda has been to build hotels to be able to hold a Super Bowl in Indy), but was not nearly as big of an issue as the education crisis in Indiana has become (funding had been cut for education years in a row, forcing the laying off of several teachers and cutting of extracurriculars in most districts). In the end, as much as personal responsibility needs to be pushed, it cannot compete against ramped underspending like this, which I am sure is happening in more states than just Indiana.

Oh, I totally agree... There is a minimum amount of support that the government needs to provide any social service including education, I have a problem with the mind-set that it is soley (or even mostly) the government's responsibility to bail people out of their own complacentcy.

My belief is that the government is oging to do its thing and most of the time it results in incompetence. Rather than whine about the system, I would rather see the private sector (read: you and me) take up the slack and be responsible for our own lives.

[barryllium]

Oh, I totally agree... There is a minimum amount of support that the government needs to provide any social service including education, I have a problem with the mind-set that it is soley (or even mostly) the government's responsibility to bail people out of their own complacentcy.

My belief is that the government is oging to do its thing and most of the time it results in incompetence. Rather than whine about the system, I would rather see the private sector (read: you and me) take up the slack and be responsible for our own lives.

Again, I agree with you to a point. Essentially, my only point of disagreement would be (and, if you weren't saying this, forgive me) that we shouldn't just say the system is what it is. In addition to taking up the slack and being responsible for our own lives, people should be doing what they can to hold their local and state governments responsible. The "live and let govern" approach only leads to increased power and worse decisions by the government. If enough people were to get more involved in their government, they can make a difference. So, rather than whine about the system, do what you can to help change the system - in addition to taking personal responsibility as well.

[Ericw712]

Again, I agree with you to a point. Essentially, my only point of disagreement would be (and, if you weren't saying this, forgive me) that we shouldn't just say the system is what it is. In addition to taking up the slack and being responsible for our own lives, people should be doing what they can to hold their local and state governments responsible. The "live and let govern" approach only leads to increased power and worse decisions by the government. If enough people were to get more involved in their government, they can make a difference. So, rather than whine about the system, do what you can to help change the system - in addition to taking personal responsibility as well.
I'm with you on that, maybe I am just wording it different. I am not saying live and let govern, but I know at the end of the day if the government isn't getting it done I can't wait for things to change I need to act. If that means lobbying a change then great, but if I can use that time raising funds in the community or serving on the PTA instead of protesting in front of the capital bulding then that's what I need to do.

[barryllium]

I'm with you on that, maybe I am just wording it different. I am not saying live and let govern, but I know at the end of the day if the government isn't getting it done I can't wait for things to change I need to act. If that means lobbying a change then great, but if I can use that time raising funds in the community or serving on the PTA instead of protesting in front of the capital bulding then that's what I need to do.

OK, I think we're on the same page then. It's 4:00, let's check out early and get some beers!

[Ericw712]

OK, I think we're on the same page then. It's 4:00, let's check out early and get some beers!
w00t!
:drunk2: