Where has all these men gone?

[BENGALS #85]

Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

[GoldenArm9]

Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
:Clap::thumbsup:....great find great find ....
Reminds me of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfz2XDXaeqc

[jamiethelanky]

I wonder why immigrants to America haven't assimilated.

Instead, they've forced the inhabitants onto reserves.

[GoldenArm9]

I wonder why immigrants to America haven't assimilated.

Instead, they've forced the inhabitants onto reserves.
And exactly who are "they've"?The American Indian to whom you are referring to live on tax free lands ....they have been taken care of nicely ...

[jamiethelanky]

And exactly who are "they've"?The American Indian to whom you are referring to live on tax free lands ....they have been taken care of nicely ...
They weren't taken care of nicely when they were attacked at the beginning of America, though...

[HearUsRoar]

They weren't taken care of nicely when they were attacked at the beginning of America, though...

Nope, they weren't, that was also over half a millenium ago. Doesn't make what the Spaniards did right but it was a long time ago.

[GoldenArm9]

Nope, they weren't, that was also over half a millenium ago. Doesn't make what the Spaniards did right but it was a long time ago.
I forgot the Spanish ...

[jamiethelanky]

Nope, they weren't, that was also over half a millenium ago. Doesn't make what the Spaniards did right but it was a long time ago.
I'm just finding it odd that a nation built on immigration is so much against it...

[BENGALS #85]

here this something to watch if i posted it right all under 10 yrs old

http://img532.imageshack.us/my.php?image=finalizedmtgminutesnb7.flv

[jmccracky]

Nope, they weren't, that was also over half a millenium ago. Doesn't make what the Spaniards did right but it was a long time ago.

You're correct, in a sense. It still doesn't make it right, period. We're Americans. We should not be above admitting our mistakes and learning from them. I know that most people hate it when other countries look up to us, but I love it.

I volunteer for AIDS charity and Breast Cancer Awareness because my band plays those types of charity events. But I will not scold my neighbor for not doing so. Why? Because helping people makes me feel good and it has changed some peoples' lives. That's the American way. Admit the mistakes. Grow from it. We're not perfect, so we should not act like it. I feel what you're saying, HearUsRoar, but that doesn't mean that I'm content with not admitting that we've done some bad things as a nation. Or passing it off as Ok because another country did something similar in the past.

Then again, I could be wrong.

[Binturong]

I'm just finding it odd that a nation built on immigration is so much against it...

What are you talking about we've always been against immigration....

The Scots-Irish of the 1700's.

The Irish and Germans of the 1800's.

The Chinese and Italians of the late 1800's early 1900's.

And now the Mexicans in the 2000's.

And technically during the signing of the Constitution the Northern States were against the 'forced immigration' of black slaves into America, so really the only group immune to this discrimination is the English...

And then again the First Americans probably didn't want them here either.

So really America is founded on hating immigrants.

[Shotgun-toting Chipmunk]

"immigrants" are fine. "illegal aliens" are the issue.

[HearUsRoar]

I'm just finding it odd that a nation built on immigration is so much against it...

We are NOT against it. Good Lord, that is the biggest misconception I hear about immigration, we are against it being done the WRONG way. Which is what is happening, time and time again.

There are millions of people here in America doing it the right way. Some have "waited in line" for close to a decade to receive their citizenry. Meanwhile there are people border jumping and some are demanding citizenship and SOME are being pushed to the front of the line. How is that fair?

It's not and that's what needs to be fixed. We are the world's greatest Melting Pot but we also demand order, that doesn't mean we are "so much against" immigration. We are just against it being done in an improper way.

[barryllium]

What are you talking about we've always been against immigration....

The Scots-Irish of the 1700's.

The Irish and Germans of the 1800's.

The Chinese and Italians of the late 1800's early 1900's.

And now the Mexicans in the 2000's.

And technically during the signing of the Constitution the Northern States were against the 'forced immigration' of black slaves into America, so really the only group immune to this discrimination is the English...

And then again the First Americans probably didn't want them here either.

So really America is founded on hating immigrants.

Absolutely agree with everything you said with the exception of the word in bold - it isn't just Mexicans, it's Latinos as a whole.

I know it's a bit nit-picky, but that's what you get from a guy that works in a department called "The Institute for Latino Studies".

[Danno]

I'm just finding it odd that a nation built on immigration is so much against it...


just a grim reminder that no nation is perfect. We all have our skeletons.

[Binturong]

Absolutely agree with everything you said with the exception of the word in bold - it isn't just Mexicans, it's Latinos as a whole.

I know it's a bit nit-picky, but that's what you get from a guy that works in a department called "The Institute for Latino Studies".

Well notice how for brevities sake I didn't include the Polish, Russian, French, Japanese, Arab immigrants into America. Likewise I know that it's not just Mexicans that fall under anti-Latino bias, just like Swedes and Dutch sometimes fell under the German blanket during their period of anti-immigration feelings.

However I chose Mexicans because they make up the single largest unaccepted immigration group of recent history, and because they also have the largest political influence, for instance shifting demographics in major cities and the Southwest and for the more negative side the MeChA movement and La Raza. Also they are the immigration group I've had the most experience with, having lived in Arizona for a year.

[Eleden]

And exactly who are "they've"?The American Indian to whom you are referring to live on tax free lands ....they have been taken care of nicely ...

You're right. Aside from the small pox infected blankets, slaughter of their people, destruction of their culture, and the utter humiliation forced upon them in the 1800s... we've been absolutely courteous to the Native Americans. <_<

[Binturong]

And exactly who are "they've"?The American Indian to whom you are referring to live on tax free lands ....they have been taken care of nicely ...

You haven't heard about Pine Ridge Indian Reservation?

Although Pine Ridge is the eighth largest reservation in the United States, it is the poorest reservation. Unemployment on the Reservation hovers around 20% and 49% live below the Federal poverty level. Adolescent suicide is four times the national average. Many of the families have no electricity, telephone, running water, or sewer. Many families use wood stoves to heat their homes. The population on Pine Ridge has among the shortest life expectancies of any group in the Western Hemisphere: approximately 47 years for males and in the low 50s for females. The infant mortality rate is five times the United States national average. Reservation population was estimated at 15,000 in the 2000 census, but that number was raised to 28,000 by HUD, following a University of Colorado door-to-door study.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Ridge_Indian_Reservation

But yea, at least they don't have to pay taxes right, they are so lucky.

[GoldenArm9]

You're right. Aside from the small pox infected blankets, slaughter of their people, destruction of their culture, and the utter humiliation forced upon them in the 1800s... we've been absolutely courteous to the Native Americans. <_<
Oh yes we were out to kill the Native Americans.. that's why they sat down with us at the first Thanksgiving .<_<..that was the goal of our government ..to eliminate them..:rotf:

[GoldenArm9]

You haven't heard about Pine Ridge Indian Reservation?



Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Ridge_Indian_Reservation

But yea, at least they don't have to pay taxes right, they are so lucky.
As much as I'm sure people hate to admit it ..this Is still America if a Native American wants to live in those conditions then so be it ...but being a free country then individuals can go live other places ....but there are those in this country who think that were still fighting the Civil War and that African Americans are still slaves ..and that were still fighting the American Indian Wars ...:huh:

[jamiethelanky]

Oh yes we were out to kill the Native Americans.. that's why they sat down with us at the first Thanksgiving .<_<..that was the goal of our government ..to eliminate them..:rotf:
If you think that the only interaction between Native Americans and Europeans was at the Thanksgiving ceremony than you are even more ignorant than I thought you were...

[The Noob Avenger]

If you think that the only interaction between Native Americans and Europeans was at the Thanksgiving ceremony than you are even more ignorant than I thought you were...

No other country could have or would have done anything better for the Native Americans. ALL of the countries that were here considered them savages, not just the colonists.

It isn't worth complaining about anymore. Its done and over with, there are laws governing immigration, and they are expected to be followed. They really aren't that hard to follow, either. Try emigrating to Canada sometime.

[jamiethelanky]

No other country could have or would have done anything better for the Native Americans. ALL of the countries that were here considered them savages, not just the colonists.

It isn't worth complaining about anymore. Its done and over with, there are laws governing immigration, and they are expected to be followed. They really aren't that hard to follow, either. Try emigrating to Canada sometime.
Why the hell should I go to Canada?

There are laws governing immigration, but the OP was complaining about people keeping some of their own culture. That's just hatred and mistrust of other cultures. What's wrong with having a little cultural inference from other places? After all, the Native American culture isn't the one being followed at the moment so it hasn't happened anyway.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

Oh yes we were out to kill the Native Americans.. that's why they sat down with us at the first Thanksgiving .<_<..that was the goal of our government ..to eliminate them..:rotf:

I'll try to be polite, but your understanding of the history in this country is umm interesting....delusional, and entertaining...but still interesting.

[The Noob Avenger]

Why the hell should I go to Canada?

There are laws governing immigration, but the OP was complaining about people keeping some of their own culture. That's just hatred and mistrust of other cultures. What's wrong with having a little cultural inference from other places? After all, the Native American culture isn't the one being followed at the moment so it hasn't happened anyway.

The Canada point was just pointing out their strict policy on immigration. It is ridiculously hard to move to Canada.

I have no problem with other cultures and people in my country, but I do have something against lawbreakers.

[Eleden]

Oh yes we were out to kill the Native Americans.. that's why they sat down with us at the first Thanksgiving .<_<..that was the goal of our government ..to eliminate them..:rotf:

No. Our goal was to do whatever possible to take their land and prevent them from taking it back. By the way the United States government didn't exist when the Pilgrims supposedly ate with the Native Americans... so that has absolutely nothing to do with the "Indian" slaughters of the 1800s.

If you're going to post in a debate about past events... at least have some inkling of historical knowledge. Although it's to be expected since the only historical information you possess has come from the little coloring books they hand out during Thanksgiving. <_<

[tbone77]

Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

:rotf:

Tell that to the over 4,000 people who were lynched by mobs outside the law in the U.S. after the Civil War, throughout reconstruction. Even until 1950 the perpetrators were rarely if ever punished.

Tell that to the descendants of slaves who were not given equal opportunities until the successful civil rights act and voting act in the 1960's.

[tbone77]

What are you talking about we've always been against immigration....

The Scots-Irish of the 1700's.

The Irish and Germans of the 1800's.

The Chinese and Italians of the late 1800's early 1900's.

And now the Mexicans in the 2000's.

And technically during the signing of the Constitution the Northern States were against the 'forced immigration' of black slaves into America, so really the only group immune to this discrimination is the English...

And then again the First Americans probably didn't want them here either.

So really America is founded on hating immigrants.

The signers of the constitution owned slaves. Ironically this great country was built on slavery. Bless their souls. May they rest in peace.

[tbone77]

And exactly who are "they've"?The American Indian to whom you are referring to live on tax free lands ....they have been taken care of nicely ...

The genocide of millions of native tribes in the new world was one of the most massive genocidal campaigns in human history. It started in 1492 with oppressors treating victims as sub-human. It continued until almost all of the native peoples were eliminated by the U.S. government, along with much of their language, culture, and way of life. The Indian Removal Acts, Trail of Tears, and forced relocation to barren lands is not what I would call "nice treatment". We have tried to bury these events in human history, but it's simply undeniable. Might makes right. That's the way it goes.

[Eleden]

The genocide of millions of native tribes in the new world was one of the most massive genocidal campaigns in human history. It started in 1492 with oppressors treating victims as sub-human. It continued until almost all of the native peoples were eliminated by the U.S. government, along with much of their language, culture, and way of life. The Indian Removal Acts, Trail of Tears, and forced relocation to barren lands is not what I would call "nice treatment". We have tried to bury these events in human history, but it's simply undeniable. Might makes right. That's the way it goes.

I sincerely doubt he has any idea what these are...

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

I sincerely doubt he has any idea what these are...

I'm sure he's looking it up as we speak, and try to spin somehow so that it looks like the Natives were somehow asking for it.<_<

[Binturong]

The signers of the constitution owned slaves. Ironically this great country was built on slavery. Bless their souls. May they rest in peace.

Of course it is quick to note that even though the US was built on slavery the first slaves were American Indians and Scots-Irish indentured servants, only later did southern plantation owners grow wealthy and powerful enough to import Africans from the Caribbean and Africa proper.

Still a distasteful and barbaric practice that should have never taken place, of course.

[Skeeter McGee]

I'm just finding it odd that a nation built on immigration is so much against it...

Maybe it's because we have people coming into our country who are bent on destroying America? :dunce:

[jamiethelanky]

Maybe it's because we have people coming into our country who are bent on destroying America? :dunce:
A tiny minority.

Not enough to explain the widespread xenophobia and vilification spread by the press.

[barryllium]

Oh yes we were out to kill the Native Americans.. that's why they sat down with us at the first Thanksgiving .<_<..that was the goal of our government ..to eliminate them..:rotf:

The US had a government that first Thanksgiving? Really? I was unaware there was a US government almost 200 years before there was a US...

[barryllium]

Maybe it's because we have people coming into our country who are bent on destroying America? :dunce:

Please, do define how this describes more than a tiny majority...

[Joe_L]

i dont agree with what happened to the native americans...but that was hundreds of years ago...today is the issue...i agree with hear us roar, as long as the enter our country the right way...i have no problem...but if you jump or cross or however you get across the border, and you are illegal...thats when i have a problem.

[barryllium]

i dont agree with what happened to the native americans...but that was hundreds of years ago...today is the issue...i agree with hear us roar, as long as the enter our country the right way...i have no problem...but if you jump or cross or however you get across the border, and you are illegal...thats when i have a problem.

But why are these people crossing the border? That's where the real problem is.

a) 7 year average for wife or young child of legal immigrant to gain legal immigration status
b) 21 year average for adult child of legal immigrant to gain legal immigration status
c) US purchases raw materials from countries, refines them, and sells them back to countries at exorbitant prices. Helping these countries refine them themselves would be beneficial to both countries, but instead, the US (both governments and corporations) only benefits itself. Thus, "the American Dream" is built up while "the Mexican Dream", "the Dominican Dream", etc. are destroyed.

So, the real problem is immigration policy and a selfish world view, in my opinion (and the opinion of most that are deep within the field of immigration studies).

[BENGALS #85]

:rotf:

Tell that to the over 4,000 people who were lynched by mobs outside the law in the U.S. after the Civil War, throughout reconstruction. Even until 1950 the perpetrators were rarely if ever punished.

Tell that to the descendants of slaves who were not given equal opportunities until the successful civil rights act and voting act in the 1960's.

yeah you can tell that story to the southern families that SHERMAN march through and burned every home he seen everybody suffered in the civil war dont even bring up the CIVIL WAR. I hate STUUUPID people

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

yeah you can tell that story to the southern families that SHERMAN march through and burned every home he seen everybody suffered in the civil war dont even bring up the CIVIL WAR. I hate STUUUPID people

Umm...are you saying that the lynching of blacks and systematically killing and removing indians from their land is somehow justifiable because of shermans march on the south :huh: I'm not following your logic.

[BENGALS #85]

UMM......... no i'm saying everybody suffered in the civil war so thier is no need to bring it up,but somehow people has took this thread from illegal immgration to a racial thread

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

UMM......... no i'm saying everybody suffered in the civil war so thier is no need to bring it up,but somehow people has took this thread from illegal immgration to a racial thread

Yes everybody suffered in the Civil War, however the Native Ameican issues (which we were talking about) is a seperate issue. As far as slaves well there is obvious connection with the Civil war, yet I would put there suffering as a seperate sub-issue, they were not battle field casualties (yes with the exception of the black troops on the union side). At any rate the point being we were discussing the plight of the native americans not the civil war.

[BENGALS #85]

100,000 black soldiers fought for the federal army also, just a little "FOOD FOR THOUGHT" lol

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

100,000 black soldiers fought for the federal army also, just a little "FOOD FOR THOUGHT" lol

Yes I know this, it's why I said with the exception of the black soldiers for the union (or federal army if you prefer), but like I said we were discussing Native Americans

[BENGALS #85]

you also had 30,000 black soldier that fought for the confederate army also the point of it all they fought for both sides if you didnt know

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

you also had 30,000 black soldier that fought for the confederate army also the point of it all they fought for both sides if you didnt know

Yes I'm aware that blacks fought on both sides (I majored in history before going into nursing I know history fairly well)....what is the point here? I keep telling you that we were discussing the native americans, but you keep giving civil war statistics. Where are you going with this?

[tbone77]

yeah you can tell that story to the southern families that SHERMAN march through and burned every home he seen everybody suffered in the civil war dont even bring up the CIVIL WAR. I hate STUUUPID people

Sherman's march......Or another 150 years of slavery. :hmm: Guess I'd have to take Sherman's march as awful as it was. You can't justify slavery.

As for black confederate soldiers, it's no wonder that many of them escaped to join the Union forces where they had a chance to fight for their freedom. Blacks also received protection and some compensation on that side of the fight, however black soldiers were still treated as second class citizens amongst union soldiers.

http://civilwar.bluegrass.net/SlaveryAndEmancipation/contrabandcamps.html

http://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/blacks-civil-war/images/recruitment-broadside.gif

[Domata Dominance]

We are NOT against it. Good Lord, that is the biggest misconception I hear about immigration, we are against it being done the WRONG way. Which is what is happening, time and time again.

There are millions of people here in America doing it the right way. Some have "waited in line" for close to a decade to receive their citizenry. Meanwhile there are people border jumping and some are demanding citizenship and SOME are being pushed to the front of the line. How is that fair?

It's not and that's what needs to be fixed. We are the world's greatest Melting Pot but we also demand order, that doesn't mean we are "so much against" immigration. We are just against it being done in an improper way.

A truly excellent post. I can't help but notice that no one countered it.

[Eleden]

A truly excellent post. I can't help but notice that no one countered it.

That's because everyone agrees with it.

[GoldenArm9]

No. Our goal was to do whatever possible to take their land and prevent them from taking it back. By the way the United States government didn't exist when the Pilgrims supposedly ate with the Native Americans... so that has absolutely nothing to do with the "Indian" slaughters of the 1800s.

If you're going to post in a debate about past events... at least have some inkling of historical knowledge. Although it's to be expected since the only historical information you possess has come from the little coloring books they hand out during Thanksgiving. <_<
Well this whole thread was about great men and there quotes and there ideas and it gets turned into an immigration debate ...:smirk:..by the way can you pass me the red crayon ?:rotf:

[Eleden]

Well this whole thread was about great men and there quotes and there ideas and it gets turned into an immigration debate ...:smirk:..by the way can you pass me the red crayon ?:rotf:

You have got to be kidding me.

The quote from Teddy Roosevelt was about immigration. The entire reason why Bengals 85 started this thread was to bring up Theodore Roosevelt's views on the issue. Hell, the first sentence of the thread even states "Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN"

How could any literate human being miss that?

Nevermind... I just remembered who I'm replying to. <_<

[jamiethelanky]

Well this whole thread was about great men and there quotes and there ideas and it gets turned into an immigration debate ...:smirk:..by the way can you pass me the red crayon ?:rotf:
You got the wrong thread, bub.

[barryllium]

Well this whole thread was about great men and there quotes and there ideas and it gets turned into an immigration debate ...:smirk:..by the way can you pass me the red crayon ?:rotf:

For the last time, GA9 - CRAYONS ARE NOT FOOD.

Hey - put that paste down... god damn it... here we go again...

[Eleden]

I wonder why immigrants to America haven't assimilated.

Instead, they've forced the inhabitants onto reserves.

http://imagechan.com/images/go%20back.jpg

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

For the last time, GA9 - CRAYONS ARE NOT FOOD.

Hey - put that paste down... god damn it... here we go again...

:rotf:...I've got to learn to not be drinking something before I read one of your post. I have found that when it's coming out of the nostrils, that....milk is gross, coffee burns, pop stings, and iced tea or water not so bad. :lol: