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View Full Version : Someone tell me why there is so much hype on Michael Oher


briensleepy
04-20-2009, 05:04 PM
Why is everyone so big on Michael Oher . I think if Smith is there you go with him this guy has more than proven himself at Bama he was considered the best lineman in collage football. I know he has had a horrible combine and he should really keep his shirt on but look at his stats he is our guy.

Common Knowledge
04-20-2009, 05:08 PM
Because somebody wrote a book about him and the media jumped all over it.<_<

Scarlet&Orange
04-20-2009, 05:10 PM
Why is everyone so big on Michael Oher . I think if Smith is there you go with him this guy has more than proven himself at Bama he was considered the best lineman in collage football. I know he has had a horrible combine and he should really keep his shirt on but look at his stats he is our guy.

Simple the 2 most important qualities any player in the draft can possess is #1 Talent and #2 Work Ethic and he has both. These should be more magnified at the top of the draft where ridiculous sums of money is being flushed down the toilet every year.

Bech72
04-20-2009, 05:11 PM
There really isn't that much hype surrounding him anymore. He is projected to go somewhere in the 10-25 range; quite a drop off considering that he was vying for the #1 OT spot only 3 months ago. I think he will be a damn good player, but not a franchise LT.

briensleepy
04-20-2009, 05:45 PM
Simple the 2 most important qualities any player in the draft can possess is #1 Talent and #2 Work Ethic and he has both. These should be more magnified at the top of the draft where ridiculous sums of money is being flushed down the toilet every year.

Are you saying Smith has no talent come on have you seen this guy play he is a beast.

Scarlet&Orange
04-20-2009, 06:19 PM
Are you saying Smith has no talent come on have you seen this guy play he is a beast.

No I didn't mean that. However one without the other (Talent & Work Ethic) is meaningless & Smith has a questionable work ethic. If I am sizing up 2 new cars to buy at the exact same price I am willing to give up a little flash for dependability. Andre Smith is the flashy pick but how dependable will he be?

et2house
04-20-2009, 06:45 PM
I don't understand why people think aSmith is SO much more talented than Oher and why he dominated more than Oher, how do you rate those? If you want to go by stats, Oher had the highest blocking effeciency in the SEC at 87.77% and had the most touchdown leading blocks in the nation at 17. If you want to go by workout numbers he beat aSmith in every category and even out performed Monroe in most. If you want to go by awards, aSmith won the 2008 Outland Trophy and was all-american, Oher won the 2008 Jacobs Blocking Trophy as the best lineman in the SEC, as voted on by the SEC coaches and was a consensus all-american. Lastly, if you want to look at film, aSmith is a mauling run blocker, but moves slow laterally, Oher has athleticism to burn, but can lose concentration. So, I think it does come down to what MVP was saying, do you you want to dump millions on the the guy with questionable work ethic or the guy with a great work ethic and was his team's captain last year?

http://www.zimbio.com/pilot?ID=ibtHQua7q87&ZURL=/Vernon%2BGholston/news/ibtHQua7q87/2009%2BNFL%2BDraft%2BMichael%2BOher%2BWins%2BChris %2BJohnson&URL=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/145479-the-winner-of-the-2009-nfl-draft-chris-johnson-award-is

The Chris Johnson award, as I will call it from now on, goes to the player who is being overlooked, but should not be. This player has been picked apart by scouts for one reason or another, and supposedly possesses a fatal flaw, which will prevent him from being a star in the league. Johnson's was his lack of size and bulk, and lack of experience against qualified schools. Past winners of this award include DeAngelo Williams and Tom Brady, amongst others.
This year's Chris Johnson award goes to: Michael Oher OT Ole Miss

Michael Oher may be the most over analyzed athlete in college sports history because of his role in the famous book The Blind Side: Evolution of a Game by Michael Lewis. The book tells the story of the evolution of the importance of the left tackle position by using Oher's life as the example. Through the fame of this book, Oher has been scrutinized since his entrance into Ole Miss.

baclaw
04-20-2009, 06:51 PM
Why is everyone so big on Michael Oher . I think if Smith is there you go with him this guy has more than proven himself at Bama he was considered the best lineman in collage football. I know he has had a horrible combine and he should really keep his shirt on but look at his stats he is our guy.


Idk, if we take Oher at 6 Ill pe ******, Smith has gotta be the pick if Monroe doesnt drop to us... Oher would be a horrible reach, he has bust written all over him if Monroe and A.Smith are gone at 6(unlikely both) id rather go any other direction than reaching for Oher...

jsr18
04-20-2009, 06:56 PM
Are you saying Smith has no talent come on have you seen this guy play he is a beast.

:tiger: Talent + immaturity + laziness = talented headcase

Do I have to mention some recent Bengal draft picks who follow this equation??

Michael Oher played in the same Heavenly Annointed SEC that Asmith played in so I'm sure he has the ability. He also doesn't come with near as many, if any red flags...

You tell me who is the safer pick.....

et2house
04-20-2009, 06:57 PM
Idk, if we take Oher at 6 Ill pe ******, Smith has gotta be the pick if Monroe doesnt drop to us... Oher would be a horrible reach, he has bust written all over him if Monroe and A.Smith are gone at 6(unlikely both) id rather go any other direction than reaching for Oher...

The "reach" argument isn't holding up anymore, Oher just had visits with the Raiders, Packers and Niners and left all three of those teams in awe of his athleticism and footwork. There't a high possibility of him going Top 10 now, there is not a significant amount of difference in talent between the 6th and 10th pick in a draft, so he can't be labeled a reach anymore, come up with a new argument.

Hammerstripes
04-20-2009, 06:59 PM
What are you judging the questionable work ethic on? The combine?

Show me one peice of evidence that says that Andre Smith has a work ethic issue. He showed up for the combine 20 pounds lighter than his playing weight at Bama.

Just because he muffed the combine doesn't indicate that he has poor work ethic. The only reason I'm a little leary about him is because I don't think he can play left tackle. That being said, I've been reading draft guides that also think that Oher won't be able to step in and play left tackle right away either.

I prefer Smith simply because I think we already have a solid left tackle in Collins. To me, the need is at right tackle, and I think Smith is a much better fit there than Oher.

Oher is still a reach at #6. When you are the 4th best player at your position, you are a reach at that point. Just because he visited teams and left them in "awe" of his footwork, doesn't make him a non-reach. Is Moreno a reach at #6? He's visited several teams as well who are in awe of his overall skills.

crazyjdawg
04-20-2009, 06:59 PM
The question you should be asking is why there is so much hype on Michael Oher on this MB. The answer being people are so desperate for an OT round 1 that they'll make up stuff about a player to make him seem better than he is.

"The whole world is crazy! Oher is top 10 material. I don't care if everyone in the world says he's top 30. I know for a fact he has the most talent and work ethic in this class. It's everyone else who is blind!"

young_bengalGenius
04-20-2009, 07:00 PM
I don't understand why people think aSmith is SO much more talented than Oher and why he dominated more than Oher, how do you rate those? If you want to go by stats, Oher had the highest blocking effeciency in the SEC at 87.77% and had the most touchdown leading blocks in the nation at 17. If you want to go by workout numbers he beat aSmith in every category and even out performed Monroe in most. If you want to go by awards, aSmith won the 2008 Outland Trophy and was all-american, Oher won the 2008 Jacobs Blocking Trophy as the best lineman in the SEC, as voted on by the SEC coaches and was a consensus all-american. Lastly, if you want to look at film, aSmith is a mauling run blocker, but moves slow laterally, Oher has athleticism to burn, but can lose concentration. So, I think it does come down to what MVP was saying, do you you want to dump millions on the the guy with questionable work ethic or the guy with a great work ethic and was his team's captain last year?

http://www.zimbio.com/pilot?ID=ibtHQua7q87&ZURL=/Vernon%2BGholston/news/ibtHQua7q87/2009%2BNFL%2BDraft%2BMichael%2BOher%2BWins%2BChris %2BJohnson&URL=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/145479-the-winner-of-the-2009-nfl-draft-chris-johnson-award-is

Put it like this we will see who is better when they put on the pads and play 16 NFL games

Whatever
04-20-2009, 07:05 PM
Idk, if we take Oher at 6 Ill pe ******, Smith has gotta be the pick if Monroe doesnt drop to us... Oher would be a horrible reach, he has bust written all over him if Monroe and A.Smith are gone at 6(unlikely both) id rather go any other direction than reaching for Oher...

Actually,Oher is probably the least likely of the top 4 OT's to be a bust,being objective. Monroe has concerns over his knees. Jason Smith has the question of whether he can play in a pro style offense in a 3-point stance hanging over his head. Andre Smith has poor work ethic,and has to be considered a head case after hiring an agent too soon,then going AWOL at the combine. I mean,Oher truthfully has the fewest question marks and the lowest bust factor. Worst case scenario,he's probably going to be a slightly above-average T for 8-10 years.

Scarlet&Orange
04-20-2009, 07:08 PM
The question you should be asking is why there is so much hype on Michael Oher on this MB. The answer being people are so desperate for an OT round 1 that they'll make up stuff about a player to make him seem better than he is.

"The whole world is crazy! Oher is top 10 material. I don't care if everyone in the world says he's top 30. I know for a fact he has the most talent and work ethic in this class. It's everyone else who is blind!"

Wow, really I must have missed that. What exactly has been made up? :what:

Whatever
04-20-2009, 07:10 PM
The question you should be asking is why there is so much hype on Michael Oher on this MB. The answer being people are so desperate for an OT round 1 that they'll make up stuff about a player to make him seem better than he is.

"The whole world is crazy! Oher is top 10 material. I don't care if everyone in the world says he's top 30. I know for a fact he has the most talent and work ethic in this class. It's everyone else who is blind!"

Well,being fair,Oher slid out of being a candidate for the #1 pick AFTER the season ended. Too many people put too much stock in the Sr. Bowl and combine,IMO,and don't pay enough attention to what a guy does on the field. The fact that he was the #1 guy before all the offseason BS,however,tells me that Oher is a better player right now than Monroe or the Smith's. Now,those guys may have more potential than Oher,but it's like 50/50 IMO that these guys will surpass him.

baclaw
04-20-2009, 07:11 PM
The "reach" argument isn't holding up anymore, Oher just had visits with the Raiders, Packers and Niners and left all three of those teams in awe of his athleticism and footwork. There't a high possibility of him going Top 10 now, there is not a significant amount of difference in talent between the 6th and 10th pick in a draft, so he can't be labeled a reach anymore, come up with a new argument.

I understand, everyone has thier opinions, I just dont see him worthy as being taken at #6 and feel we could go alot of different routes and get alot more talent than taking him at 6... Evereyone has thier take on different prospects and to be blunt I just dont think he will pan out to be a Elite OT in the Nfl for years to come, he may turn out to be good possibly great, but why do we settle for good when IMo there will be alot more talented players available when we pick.. If we get stuck in this picking for need year after year, we are gonna miss out on elite talent.

Idk im not an nfl scout, all i can go by is what i read and watch on the internet and read about, he may turn out to be the stud alot think he will be, but IMO I just dont see it.... Hey if we do take him and he turns out to be a stud ill be the first to apologize and bow down... But I just like other prospects and dont want to see Oher in stripes for the simple reason: He is overrated nothing impresses me more about him than i see in Beatty or Britton, or heck Tupou... I just feel we can get Oher quality of play in the 2nd or 3rd round, he in my eyes just isnt a #6 pick

et2house
04-20-2009, 07:14 PM
What are you judging the questionable work ethic on? The combine?

Show me one peice of evidence that says that Andre Smith has a work ethic issue. He showed up for the combine 20 pounds lighter than his playing weight at Bama.

Just because he muffed the combine doesn't indicate that he has poor work ethic. The only reason I'm a little leary about him is because I don't think he can play left tackle. That being said, I've been reading draft guides that also think that Oher won't be able to step in and play left tackle right away either.

I prefer Smith simply because I think we already have a solid left tackle in Collins. To me, the need is at right tackle, and I think Smith is a much better fit there than Oher.

Oher is still a reach at #6. When you are the 4th best player at your position, you are a reach at that point. Just because he visited teams and left them in "awe" of his footwork, doesn't make him a non-reach. Is Moreno a reach at #6? He's visited several teams as well who are in awe of his overall skills.

The question you should be asking is why there is so much hype on Michael Oher on this MB. The answer being people are so desperate for an OT round 1 that they'll make up stuff about a player to make him seem better than he is.

"The whole world is crazy! Oher is top 10 material. I don't care if everyone in the world says he's top 30. I know for a fact he has the most talent and work ethic in this class. It's everyone else who is blind!"

It's not just this message board, I just supplied a link in my first post from a writer that thinks the same thing and I could go find a dozen more sites and writers that think Oher has been unfairly criticized. The exact same thing that people are up in arms about happening to aSmith since the combine (overly criticized) has been happening to Oher since the season ended. I watched the top OT's play this year (except for jSmith) and I picked out Oher as the best one I saw all season, when the season ended. I haven't seen him do anything since that that would change my mind. There's been a draft segment on NFL network with Mayock and Billick talking about prospects and reviewing tape. When they talked about Oher he's the only player I've seen them not use any game film to point out his negatives, they used the Senior bow 1 on 1 drills. How does that tell you anything about his negatives when those drills are easily geared toward the defenders.

young_bengalGenius
04-20-2009, 07:19 PM
I understand, everyone has thier opinions, I just dont see him worthy as being taken at #6 and feel we could go alot of different routes and get alot more talent than taking him at 6... Evereyone has thier take on different prospects and to be blunt I just dont think he will pan out to be a Elite OT in the Nfl for years to come, he may turn out to be good possibly great, but why do we settle for good when IMo there will be alot more talented players available when we pick.. If we get stuck in this picking for need year after year, we are gonna miss out on elite talent.

Idk im not an nfl scout, all i can go by is what i read and watch on the internet and read about, he may turn out to be the stud alot think he will be, but IMO I just dont see it.... Hey if we do take him and he turns out to be a stud ill be the first to apologize and bow down... But I just like other prospects and dont want to see Oher in stripes for the simple reason: He is overrated nothing impresses me more about him than i see in Beatty or Britton, or heck Tupou... I just feel we can get Oher quality of play in the 2nd or 3rd round, he in my eyes just isnt a #6 pick
i agree with you 100 percent ohear would be a reach at 6. ohear is talented but i think monroe and both of the smiths has a little bit of edge over ohear

et2house
04-20-2009, 07:33 PM
What are you judging the questionable work ethic on? The combine?

Show me one peice of evidence that says that Andre Smith has a work ethic issue. He showed up for the combine 20 pounds lighter than his playing weight at Bama.

Just because he muffed the combine doesn't indicate that he has poor work ethic. The only reason I'm a little leary about him is because I don't think he can play left tackle. That being said, I've been reading draft guides that also think that Oher won't be able to step in and play left tackle right away either.

I prefer Smith simply because I think we already have a solid left tackle in Collins. To me, the need is at right tackle, and I think Smith is a much better fit there than Oher.

Oher is still a reach at #6. When you are the 4th best player at your position, you are a reach at that point. Just because he visited teams and left them in "awe" of his footwork, doesn't make him a non-reach. Is Moreno a reach at #6? He's visited several teams as well who are in awe of his overall skills.

You could throw in how he stabbed all his teammates in the back by getting suspended before the Sugar Bowl.....I'm sure the Bengals players would love to have that kind of "me first" player on their team.

crazyjdawg
04-20-2009, 07:33 PM
Wow, really I must have missed that. What exactly has been made up? :what:

The fact that he is by far the most talented player. He gave up 7.5 sacks in two years. That doesn't scream elite to me.

et2house
04-20-2009, 07:43 PM
The fact that he is by far the most talented player. He gave up 7.5 sacks in two years. That doesn't scream elite to me.

That's a little off, he could still be the most talented and give up those sacks. What he does need to work on is his consistency, that would give up those sacks. Sack totals are hard to verify unless you have access to all those games on film. The only site that I've seen that is touting that 7.5 number is CBS, have you seen it anywhere else? From the Ole Miss coaches during the pro day, they told scouts that Oher didn't give up any sacks last year and only 4 in his career at Ole Miss. I wish there was some way to get an accurate answer on that.

Scarlet&Orange
04-20-2009, 07:46 PM
I understand, everyone has thier opinions, I just dont see him worthy as being taken at #6 and feel we could go alot of different routes and get alot more talent than taking him at 6... Evereyone has thier take on different prospects and to be blunt I just dont think he will pan out to be a Elite OT in the Nfl for years to come, he may turn out to be good possibly great, but why do we settle for good when IMo there will be alot more talented players available when we pick.. If we get stuck in this picking for need year after year, we are gonna miss out on elite talent.

Idk im not an nfl scout, all i can go by is what i read and watch on the internet and read about, he may turn out to be the stud alot think he will be, but IMO I just dont see it.... Hey if we do take him and he turns out to be a stud ill be the first to apologize and bow down... But I just like other prospects and dont want to see Oher in stripes for the simple reason: He is overrated nothing impresses me more about him than i see in Beatty or Britton, or heck Tupou... I just feel we can get Oher quality of play in the 2nd or 3rd round, he in my eyes just isnt a #6 pick

Not to be rude and don't take this personal as it isn't meant to be Baclaw nor is this strictly directed at you. But it's something that cannot be stated enough IMO.

But it's more than just an opinion, It's an informed opinion. Pure unadulterated talent can be measured with numbers, that isn't an opinion that is a fact. How fast you are, how strong you are, how quick you are, how much endurance you have, etc. to a very large degree are all god given abilities and they can be measured. Yes you can improve these things by being in great physical condition, which a large % of these players were in when they took these drills. We have these OT's official #'s so therefore we don't have to guess who has talent, we know. And they all have pretty equal talent some just slightly different talent but it mostly levels out overall. Then you have to factor in a whole lot of other things of which we don't have as much information. But we have a lot of info about their skill level (which despite popular belief isn't the same thing as talent), we have some character information, work ethic, etc. etc. What we have to do is take all that we know weigh each part of it individually and add it all together to come up with a final solution. Then it becomes an opinion of who we think is the best player for our needs.

Bottom line everyone has their opinion and IMO it's ok for others to try to sway their opinion. Hey if you believe Andre Smith is the better selection, convince me and maybe I'll agree. But nobody is gonna convince me using hyperbole, come with something tangible like facts, like the numbers. And by the same token be open to others points of view if they have a good argument. Afterall we are all Bengals fans and want the best for our team and if it's Andre Smith well so be it, that's who I want. But the facts to this point suggest he is a bit riskier than anyone of the 4.

Scarlet&Orange
04-20-2009, 07:48 PM
The fact that he is by far the most talented player. He gave up 7.5 sacks in two years. That doesn't scream elite to me.

I think you are gonna have to do better than that JDawg as there are probably a dozen reasons why he gave up a sack that have nothing to do with his talent level.

Scarlet&Orange
04-20-2009, 07:50 PM
You could throw in how he stabbed all his teammates in the back by getting suspended before the Sugar Bowl.....I'm sure the Bengals players would love to have that kind of "me first" player on their team.

Let's see off the top of my head here.

Dan Wilkinson
Carl Pickens
Corey Dillon
Jeremi Johnson

The list goes on and on and on. Great players for us but if you go back to those drafts you might find just as good players who helped raise their teammates to heights not seen here in more than 2 decades. Heck Marshall Faulk was drafted right after Wilkinson, both ultra talented but only onbe of them has HoF credentials and a SB ring. The thinking has to change here for us to be a wining organization.

baclaw
04-20-2009, 07:58 PM
Not to be rude and don't take this personal as it isn't meant to be Baclaw nor is this strictly directed at you. But it's something that cannot be stated enough IMO.

But it's more than just an opinion, It's an informed opinion. Pure unadulterated talent can be measured with numbers, that isn't an opinion that is a fact. How fast you are, how strong you are, how quick you are, how much endurance you have, etc. to a very large degree are all god given abilities and they can be measured. Yes you can improve these things by being in great physical condition, which a large % of these players were in when they took these drills. We have these OT's official #'s so therefore we don't have to guess who has talent, we know. And they all have pretty equal talent some just slightly different talent but it mostly levels out overall. Then you have to factor in a whole lot of other things of which we don't have as much information. But we have a lot of info about their skill level (which despite popular belief isn't the same thing as talent), we have some character information, work ethic, etc. etc. What we have to do is take all that we know weigh each part of it individually and add it all together to come up with a final solution. Then it becomes an opinion of who we think is the best player for our needs.

Bottom line everyone has their opinion and IMO it's ok for others to try to sway their opinion. Hey if you believe Andre Smith is the better selection, convince me and maybe I'll agree. But nobody is gonna convince me using hyperbole, come with something tangible like facts, like the numbers. And by the same token be open to others points of view if they have a good argument. Afterall we are all Bengals fans and want the best for our team and if it's Andre Smith well so be it, that's who I want. But the facts to this point suggest he is a bit riskier than anyone of the 4.


Right on, i think i kinda rambled on in my previous post but you kinda said what i was trying to... IMO i dont like Oher as our #6 pick, but that doesnt mean he may not be the best pick, i just dont think he would be the best player for our team to take, i feel other OT's could be taken later iin the draft that would be just as serviceable as him... But liek i said and you said everyone has thier own opinions, likes dislikes and so forth, i just would much rather see us going a different route than Oher.. IMO A.Smith should be there at 6 and would much rather see him in stripes than Oher and think given some guidance Andre will be the best OT to come out of this draft... but there again that is just my opinion, no oone really knows how these prospects are gonna turn out till years down the road, but IMO I just think Oher is too big of a reach to take at 6, and the bengals arent in a position to take reach's like some "other" teams could afford to do that..

Scarlet&Orange
04-20-2009, 08:10 PM
Right on, i think i kinda rambled on in my previous post but you kinda said what i was trying to... IMO i dont like Oher as our #6 pick, but that doesnt mean he may not be the best pick, i just dont think he would be the best player for our team to take, i feel other OT's could be taken later iin the draft that would be just as serviceable as him... But liek i said and you said everyone has thier own opinions, likes dislikes and so forth, i just would much rather see us going a different route than Oher.. IMO A.Smith should be there at 6 and would much rather see him in stripes than Oher and think given some guidance Andre will be the best OT to come out of this draft... but there again that is just my opinion, no oone really knows how these prospects are gonna turn out till years down the road, but IMO I just think Oher is too big of a reach to take at 6, and the bengals arent in a position to take reach's like some "other" teams could afford to do that..

Good, post. I disagree with your assessment but I respect the fact that you brought up something that people like to intimate but never come right out and say. Andre if he takes to guidance may turn out just fine, which is why if he gets drafted I won't moan too much and I hold off on skewering Marvin and company (too bad anyway) maybe it is just a case of a kid being a kid who will grow out of it. But if it were me making the pick I'd just pass, I have seen that way too often these types of players play good for a season or 2 and start going downhill and gaining steam as they go.

I'd take Oher and coach him up where he is lacking which seems like your basic recognition issues with defenses and a few mechanical flaws he has. I suppose he could never learn it but based on the information I have read about him he can learn it just takes longer. And from what I have seen he is gonna work hard to learn it. Just for the record though he really isn't any different than most rookies coming in they all have to learn some new things.

Good discussion! :rock on: