Bratkowski discussion thread. All things Brat.

[LEATHER FACE]

Maybe the question that should be asked is,.... why do you keep Bratowski? Couldn't be just because of longevity. Maybe he plays "safe?"

I am hoping others can find a reason to keep him. It doesn't make sense to keep him, if there's no reason to.

I'm not usually jumpin' on the "get Brat. outta her" wagon, but... I look at other offenses, and it's like the coaches and players don't watch other games or somethin'. Other offenses adapt, adjust, accommodate, and find a way.

One thing that stuck out in this game was that this team's 3rd best offensive threat, rarely saw the ball. I'm referring to Bernard Scott. Wow, he won a few games by himself. :ninja: Why is an offense depending on two receivers who are only dependable 50% of the time?

It's not Brat's fault? He's the captain of the ship of offense isn't he? If they get a free agent WR, and get Chase Coffman back healthy, maybe things will be different. ... or will they?

The Jets ran all kinds of different looks in running the ball. I've NEVER seen the Bengals do anything like that. The cowboys were blitzed obsessively, and guess what, ... they had something that would accommodate the blitz. Simple right? ... apparently not.

One thing is for sure. The Bengals and the Redskins, and any other team that has a bunch of receivers on the field, who are less than 6 feet tall, will always come up "short." It's time to get some players who can catch and won't mind that Carson throws the ball 8 feet high. Ya can't blame carson much. He's 6'5", how in the heck are you going to keep throwing to targets that can't nab a ball unless it is continuously thrown only 3 feet off of the ground?

[Kazkal]

He should have been fired last year...If they keep him for another I'm going to be ****** off more so since Looks like Hue Jackson may be available (If his contract expires same time as zimmers)


PS,We should also Fire Mike Sheppard the guy hasn't done shet with our Wide Receivers since he's been here ...

It's not Brat's fault? He's the captain of the ship of offense isn't he? If they get a free agent WR, and get Chase Coffman back healthy, maybe things will be different. ... or will they?

People can blame the Players but like you said he's captain of the ship,it's his job to to get them ready... since 2005 he's been going down hill with very predictable play calling...It's his job to work with his players look at what Zimmer has done because he knows how to use his players to their Strengths....Brat on the other hand you hand him a Kiddy toy with the Different shaped Blocks he'll Try Jamming the Star block where the Triangle goes...

[BuckeyedBengalCondition]

I proposed earlier in a thread to draft Tim Tebow next year. Use him as a TE, FB and even a QB for different formations. The kid has enough athletic talent, it would work... BUT then I remembered we have the most unimaginative, tired offensive coordinator.

The craziest we get on O is "no.74 has reported as an elgible receiver" on just about every play... so until Brat goes I'm affraid it's going to be more of the same.


*****Players executing his calls do matter too and I'm not discounting the mistakes Palmer makes on reading routes on receivers running wrong routes and so on

[nyeasygoer]

i would give this guy a call about being our offensive coordinator

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJMa20xXykI

[spazz70]

Schottenheimer's kid was brilliant tonight.....where is our offense..nowhere to be found....we have to make a change....it is so obvious

[Kazkal]

Wanna stop Brat? Hand him this
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/ikitsol/Bratsworstenemy222.jpg
(Mentioned in previous post just so people knew what type of toy i was talking about)

[LAFan85]

I really like this thread .. just a bump

[TKuhl]

The thing that makes this so frustrating is everyone knows nothing will be done, no changes will be made. It dosent even matter if we get a new OC, Marvin is running the show on offense, he wants to be a running team. Nothing will change as long as Marvin is here.

[silkyjohnson]

The thing that makes this so frustrating is everyone knows nothing will be done, no changes will be made. It dosent even matter if we get a new OC, Marvin is running the show on offense, he wants to be a running team. Nothing will change as long as Marvin is here.

we can be a run-first team while still being creative with playcalling

[Kazkal]

The thing that makes this so frustrating is everyone knows nothing will be done, no changes will be made. It dosent even matter if we get a new OC, Marvin is running the show on offense, he wants to be a running team. Nothing will change as long as Marvin is here.

Problem isn't running the Ball it's predictable playcalling,It's not using your players correctly look at what zimmer has done because he knows how to use his players...I hope we fire Brat who was never a Marvin guy and bring in someone like Hue who isn't a complete ****** someone who would work well with Marvin (like zimmer) ...It's hilarious people wanna blame Marvin wanting to run the Ball to why the Passing game is having problems...Hey they say you run the ball to open up the pass so it's pretty easy to understand there's a problem with our passing game.

[brm13]

The thing that makes this so frustrating is everyone knows nothing will be done, no changes will be made. It dosent even matter if we get a new OC, Marvin is running the show on offense, he wants to be a running team. Nothing will change as long as Marvin is here.

I agree. Marvin is running the show and wants ball control. BUT, that doesn't mean he wants Brat. I think Mike Brown likes Brat because Brat is passing oriented OC and Mike Brown loves the QB position. Marvin could have a great ball control offense if we had somebody like the old Steeler OC (Whisenhunt?) who ran the ball, but used gadgets, the TE, possession recievers, and roll outs to keep the defense off balance. We have everything but a good tight end to run that offense right now. The lack of creativity is appalling.

Bernard Scott running with the ball through an aggressive D's secondary (line him up at slot receiver, screens, let Caldwell throw it to him off trick plays, etc) should happen once a series until they back off and let us control the line of scrimmage. Make teams pay that sell out to stop the run. Pittsburgh did it for years. That is what Marvin wants, but it isn't Brats style and he needs to be replaced.

[silkyjohnson]

Marvin could have a great ball control offense if we had somebody like the old Steeler OC (Whisenhunt?) who ran the ball, but used gadgets, the TE, possession recievers, and roll outs to keep the defense off balance. We have everything but a good tight end to run that offense right now. The lack of creativity is appalling.

totally agree :rock on:

[mbburch]

Same reason we decided to franchise tag Graham. Same reason it took us 5 games to cut Brad St Louis. Mike Brown is too loyal.

***Anyone who has been with the organization for a long time is considered to be crucial, even if they are holding us back.*****

Would not surprise me to see them dump Zimmer and keep Brat, as ridiculous as that sounds to anyone with half a brain. I hope I'm wrong but this **** has been going on for 20 years.

[ohwhyknott]

I know, it's been said many times before, but I just can't take watching them playing like a old horse, with one-direction blinders on anymore! This team used to be all offense before but~~~ Over all, this has still been a great year. But, I must say~~~I really don't think they used many key players this whole year as they should have been used. My point?~~~Not just Sam Wyche, but an OC that thinks like him would have used Bernard Scott as Wyche used James Brooks & Icky Woods. Especially with those little dump-off passes out of the backfield, like the Jets killed us with in our final two games. Brian Leonard was only used few & far between, mostly at times when it got desperate & he almost always came through! Another hugh OC mistake! Why even bring these guys in, see them do well, & then just forget about them in the play-calling? Fosse & Coffman showed some hands early in the season, but totally disappeared when we needed them. Jonathon Luigs (the winner of the Rimington award for the Nation's best college Center), should have been the starting Center at some point this year. His credentials coming into the NFL, was so much better than Kyle Cook it's pathetic. Even if Cook had to open the season, it becomes all about seniority when the season starts & the old idea of "the best player plays" goes out the window. Andre Smith was a total washout this year, not typical of a high first round pick.The O-line was suspect coming into the season anyway, & letting Eric Steinbach get away is monumental now, when you see that most of the pressure Carson has had on him all year is coming (many times unblocked) right up the middle. We were still surviving on defense untill Rey Mauluga broke his ankle, then Rashad Jeanty gets hurt, & guys like the Jets Kevin Mawaue pull-blocks into Rey's old position, giving the Jets an extra guy (& a Pro Bowler) going up against a third team reserve player trying to fill Rey's LB spot! All day long~~in both games~~~too much advantage for the Jets! & in keeping with players in the wrong spot~~~Rey Mauluga is a middle linebacker. (just like David Pollock was a great pass rushing DE--waisted!) Maybe Dhani Jones could'nt play outside well anymore because of lateral speed. But Jones still played great all year, & Rey was awesome! It might have been the best combo we had to put out there, so I can see that move. Caldwell & Coles made some good catches this year, but WAY to many crucial drops, & a ton of should-be easy catches dropped all year! & I believe T.J. Houshmanzadeh still had more catches than both of them put together. Chad was able to get into the game better when T.J. was on the other side. I thought we had improved ourselves there big time this year, but boy was I wrong! The only way Chad EVER saw the ball was in times of desparation, or in those 2 or 3 games when he had some help. Heck~~~For a guy that still loves this team & is disappointed in a lot of ways with so many dumb decisions made by the coaching staff (like waisting our red flags today--Geez!) I don't blame Coach Lewis for those. he was told by the idiot OC in the booth to throw the red flags. & no play-action & just plain old stupid calls, when the Jets (& many other teams), killed us with the easy stuff that we used to be so good at in our two Super Bowl apperances. I still believe the Bengals had a great year, & I do not blame Marvin Lewis for it. Sure, he hired the staff. But, he's a defensive guy, & he also found so many of those great new players, that came in this year. (just like every year) But injuries to so many of them buries Lewis's main influence & positive changes. The # 1 thing we need is a new OC, with fresh ideas. I can't help but think of what Sam Wyche could have done with our offensive weapons. The players were here, but just not used. #2 thing they need is interior O-line blocking, with Luigs starting at Center, & at least one new pulling Guard drafted in the first round of the draft. (that's the only way to get guy good enough to do it) I believe the defense will be strong again next year with the return of Antwan Odom, Rey Mauluga, & getting a healthy Roy Williams back would be nice. But I'm not so sure about him, he's always been prone to injury. With a guy like Troy Polamalu back there, they would be so tough to run against, or pass for that matter, considering we have the Corners "covered" so to speak. To me, the most demoralizing thing about this season was what some call the old "Bengal Jinx" that not only hit us once, but many times this year. Examples of~~~(Bengal jinx?) Losing not only good players, but the MOST important ones. From the past, it was guys like Greg Cook that led the AFL in passing as a rookie, then destroys his throwing arm the next year. (he only got that 1 whole year to show us what we were going to be missing)--Then, Tim Krumrie breaks his leg in the Super Bowl. Does the point of "most important guy" hit home yet? Sure, you all know what I mean~~~Anyway~~~This year's version was not only Antwan Odom, when he was leading the NFL in sacks, but Cedric Benson, when was in the top 2 or 3 in rushing, even though we got him back, it still hurt. Also not even counting Roy Williams Damato Peko, & Tank Johnson, who only had a few games played together this year. It makes a big difference when both are in there. & then~~~when they were still finding ways to hang in there on defense, & the playoffs approching~~~Rey Maualuga breaks his freaking ankle! Well, there goes the water dam again, & we just could'nt find enough real talent to get it done! I'm not mad about it, it can't be helped~~~As they say in the china shop---"That's the breaks!" But yea, I am frustrated by it, & for another whole year I can't watch National sports shows without getting mad as heck, because they run down our Bengals, & NEVER give the reasons, the true reasons why the team struggled. They even showed the highlight of the Jets beating them in the 1982-3 season, 44-17 & stated that we were the defending AFC Champions, but never brought up the World Football League taking that team apart with free-agent Bengal signings, & the scandal in Seattle, when the crazy lady screamed "RAPE!" & it cost that team all of our Afro-American defensive players, except for Reggie Williams & a couple of other guys. It was'nt the same team that won the "Ice Bowl" against the Chargers! But, it was a great chance to throw out that 44-17 Jets winning score. When Cris Carter talks about our Bengals, you can read "Hate For Cincinnati" all over his face. To me, it's personal with Carter, because he grew up only 30 miles from Riverfront Stadium, & cut all ties with his roots. (mainly because we remember him for the crack-head he was growing up here, & most of us hates his guts!) He thinks he's above it all now, & a Bengal loss truly pleases him--Jerk! His football card claims Troy Ohio as his home, a town he probably spent a week or two in when he was first born. Our city even wanted to name a street after him, but he refused, when they approched him with the idea. So, they decided to honor the late-great Todd Bell, #25 of the 1984 Bears. (his agent Lee Stienberg talked him into a hold-out on his contract. They replaced him with Dave Duerson that made the Pro Bowl & got Todd's SB ring. Todd was the best Strong Safety in the NFL at the time he held out--bummer!) Oh well, I got it all out of my system. All my gripes can go down the drain now, along with the offensive playbook, & the pityful excuse we've had around here for an offensive coordinator! Bartkowski has got to go! Please Marvin! Let's get someone in here that has that Bill Walsh mentality again, of a ball control offense, with a good mix of run & pass to move the chains, keep the defense on their heels, & put all the advantage back in our hands! Hit Chad on a slant route from time to time. Quick hitting passes are the only way to keep a good cover corner off him so much! Then, maybe a long pass to Chad might work from time to time. Another hugh OC mistake! Sam Wyche is'nt the only one that could give us back that old kick-butt Bengal offense! The over-all talent on offense was just as good as our old Super Bowl teams, except for the O-Line~~Big Time!!! (Whitworth's the only one that compares to the old power house SB team's linemen. & Steinbach did play well here) Kenny Anderson knows the old offense, & was coached personally by Bill Walsh when he was still here as the OC. I miss the no-huddle, & play-action that Sam brought in! With the players we already have, & a real coach pulling the strings from the booth upstairs, & then throw in this year's defense, it could have been, would have been, & really should have been~~~Unstoppable!!! In closing, I apologize for the negative waves. Maybe, they'l fix it by next year. Untill then, I'll be waiting for the announcement that Brat has been released. I'm sick of the foot-dragging in the play calling. The constant running game worked in Pittsburgh for years, but we don't have their offensive line!

[85rules]

I agree totally with Brat not even utilizing guys like Scott. What in the heck is wrong with our oc?

One other thing is that Chad should have caught that pass to the enzone,which would have tied the game at 21. it was in his hands but he dropped it.

[Kazkal]

Eh no Paragraphs = no Reading...With that being said I agree Brat needs to go...
Hopefully Mike Brown will relize that too and then Bring in Hue Jackson someone who can actually mesh well and utilize our players...But Realisticlly Brat won't be fired and is the Headcouch in 2011.

[ohwhyknott]

I agree totally with Brat not even utilizing guys like Scott. What in the heck is wrong with our oc?

One other thing is that Chad should have caught that pass to the enzone,which would have tied the game at 21. it was in his hands but he dropped it.That's true, but I thought he made a choice to tap his toes in & take his chances at the end of it, instead of trying to turn his body before he hit the ground. Maybe I'm wrong, but that would have made a big difference in the game, well~~that & 9 points in the kicking game. Man, I'm so bummed out!--lol--& you're right~~~Brat is a tool.

[ohwhyknott]

Eh no Paragraphs = no Reading...With that being said I agree Brat needs to go...
Hopefully Mike Brown will relize that too and then Bring in Hue Jackson someone who can actually mesh well and utilize our players...But Realisticlly Brat won't be fired and is the Headcouch in 2011.Sorry about being so long winded about it. I've just been saving it up for a while, because I really saw it coming a long time ago, & did'nt want to wizz on everybody's cornflakes when we still had a slight chance. Rey's loss was the last grasp at holding the defense together. I never told my friends either, when they gave me a WHO DEY I responded in kind, but never told them what I saw at, or around the time when Roy Williams, Antwan Odom, then almost together~~Ced Benson & Bernard Scott went down. Then Tank Johnson~~then Peko etc. etc. & I don't think Brat will EVER be a head coach. He's an offensive coodinator, & I think he's gone as far as he can. Marvin Lewis knows football, but not enough to know who to pick for the OC.

[PiquaBengal]

I agree with Kazkal....there is no way i am reading that with out some punctuation effort at all.

So I'll just give my thoughts on Brat.....

If that dude is not shown the door i will completely loose my mind. There is no excuse for some of the simple things he failed to do this year and last night vs the Jets. With the way Ced was running the ball you have to use the play action with him. Maybe you could have gotten Caldwell the separation he needed after his ankle got rolled on.

Or maybe line Coles or Caldwell up next to Chad and try and rub Revis off of him to help Chad get some separation from him. Maybe i don't know bring B.Scott in and toss to him when the Jets are bringing the house on a screen....or something.

Of course with the way Carson was throwing the ball even if he had done any of them things, doesn't mean that Carson could have gotten it done last night. But you have to give your guys the chance.....

[willytaw]

........ oh nevermind

[sliderule43]

You need to make much shorter paragraphs. I tried to read your statement, but it makes the reader dizzy.

[SunsetBengal]

I don't know if we can blame Brat on this one. Playcalling seemed ok. Not Brat's fault if Carson was throwing to 7' tall recievers, and Revis was stuck to Chad worse than a dirty diaper. Obviously the coaching staff decided that Cedric Benson was going to get all the work today, and he came through, to the best of his ability. Let's not forget the missed FGs, and offensive penalties, as well.

[beechball_45424]

Please spot beating a dead horse.

[FairmountsFinest]

Zero hand-offs to Bernard Scott or Leonard..

WHY NOT?

Zero pass attempts to tight end position....

WHY NOT?

[wedebrook]

Actually, Leonard got at least one hand off towards the end of the fourth quarter. I remember saying...."wow, we're down 10 with like 3 or 4 minutes to go, and we're running it?" But, he did end up with a decent gain on the play.

[redzone21]

Zero hand-offs to Bernard Scott or Leonard..

WHY NOT?

Zero pass attempts to tight end position....

WHY NOT?

How about because Ced was the only one to keep us in the game and we didn't pass to a tight end because we don't have one that can catch. Or for that matter a quarter back that could hit him anyway. Not saying that Brat did great, but that wasn't the biggest issue this time!

[whodeytj9]

Bernard Scott isnt a great runner. he is very athletic and a great return man, but i feel much much more comfortable with benson getting the bulk if not all carries. LJ would have been nice. why was he inactive?

[Lawless_1]

Zero hand-offs to Bernard Scott or Leonard..

WHY NOT?

Zero pass attempts to tight end position....

WHY NOT?

I remember we threw it to Coats once so you're wrong...

Coats dropped it as always but we did throw to him :lol: :nervous:

[fredtoast]

Zero hand-offs to Bernard Scott or Leonard..

WHY NOT?



There were a lot of problems last night, but this is ridiculous. Benson had one of the greatest games I have ever seen from a Bengal RB against the #1 rush defense in the league and you criticize Brat for not taking carries away from him?

[carolina boy]

Zero hand-offs to Bernard Scott or Leonard..

WHY NOT?

Zero pass attempts to tight end position....

WHY NOT?

Running game looked good friend. It was the passing and kicking that wasn't so hot. And yeah Coats at TE had a dropped pass, but that was a hard pass behind him to catch. Poor fella cant catch anyway.

[WHODEY6802]

It would have been nice to see Bernard Scott get involved in the game somehow seeing how explosive he can be. The thing that got me is that we ran ZERO screen plays! Carson had pressure all day and they blitz a lot. It's day one football to hurt an over aggressive team is to use their aggressiveness against them...Screens, draws, or counter plays. Anything to try and get them to think a little bit before blowing through our line.The sad thing is that the Jets realized we are a very aggressive defense and what did they do? Play action pass for a TD...Misdirection run play for a TD...Great coaching by the Jets. Here's to 'ol Mikey finally letting Bratkowski go and bring in Hue Jackson. :thumbsup:

[kkoes1968]

Got news for ya...Crapkowski is going nowhere. He is known butt buddies w/ Mikey boy....and Marvin also has control on that.

Zim will be low balled and insulted with Mikey's offer and will say "go to hell" as he bolts for the Skins, while Crapkowski is given a 5 yr extension along w/ Marvin.

Get ready for more of the same offense thru 2015

[ImpactPlaya]

Bratkowski does a poor job of a using a defenses strength against them.
Schottenheimer knew if the FB hit the 1 hole,the LB's would flow fast,hence the weakside TD to Greene.
Crazy when the Jets lost their DB's,Brat failed to expose the 3rd stringers.
If Darrell Revis was gonna shutdown Chad all game,I would have went to Cosby in 3rd WR set earlier and killed the Jets that way.....
You might as well have Snookie from Jersey Shore running the offense

[bclion]

It would have been nice to see Bernard Scott get involved in the game somehow seeing how explosive he can be. The thing that got me is that we ran ZERO screen plays! Carson had pressure all day and they blitz a lot. It's day one football to hurt an over aggressive team is to use their aggressiveness against them...Screens, draws, or counter plays. Anything to try and get them to think a little bit before blowing through our line.The sad thing is that the Jets realized we are a very aggressive defense and what did they do? Play action pass for a TD...Misdirection run play for a TD...Great coaching by the Jets. Here's to 'ol Mikey finally letting Bratkowski go and bring in Hue Jackson. :thumbsup:

I like Brat going and Hue coming in - but, I'd go a step further and can Marvin! MB won't, and that's a shame because there are better out there than Marvin. I've seen enough of him to know that he was a far better coordinator than HC - injries hurt us alot though and It seems the bengals are just snake bit when it comes to things - Jeanty didn't get one snap from scrimmage getting hurt on the kickoff - that is just how it seems to go with them. Somethin happens, something always happens - starting to feel like those long suffering Red Sox fans in Boston, we always find a way to lose.

[LockeCole]

How about because Ced was the only one to keep us in the game and we didn't pass to a tight end because we don't have one that can catch. Or for that matter a quarter back that could hit him anyway. Not saying that Brat did great, but that wasn't the biggest issue this time!

Foschi can catch. So, i dont know what your saying. Coats... they should of cut him during the game.

[Palmer9]

Look, I could care less about who gets what handoffs when. I think Ced, who avg. 8 yards a carry last night, was doing a great job. Often times he mades some amazing plays out of would-be no gains or losses. Best I've seen him run & that's no joke.

What does honk me off a great deal is the fact that the Bengals have Bernard Scott, a very shifty - big play threat, & they throw absolutely ZERO half back screens into the flat? At the begining of the year, these were plays that seemed to develop into big gains with Scott converting several for long 1st downs. Why on Earth these types of plays dissapeared last night & for the last half of the season blows my mind. Instead we got 5 yard dump-offs screens to Ced right in the midle. Where's he going to run to on that play? nowhere. It's a dink pass that has no potential to go for more yards than where it's caught. Pathetic play calling & play design.

[dilligaf]

I remember we threw it to Coats once so you're wrong...

Coats dropped it as always but we did throw to him :lol: :nervous:

The throw wasn't to him, it was behind him. Coates has actually been getting better with catching the last few games. I believe I've seen Coates AND Coles have catches in 2 recent games together. That was a horrible throw from Palmer. That's the way I saw it.

[lonebengalfromIWU]

The pass to Coats was thrown behind him. Your asking him to stop all his momentum and make a hard grab, that our WR's wouldn't have made?
Now, I agree, that Coats is not the best or even a good tight end considering he's not even 3rd on our depth chart, but that was a bad throw from Carson.
Now for the matter at hand...
I think Bratkowski needs to go, but I don't think this will instantly "cure" our offense. I think our O-Line has some problems, and we need to address WR, and maybe a QB.

[Palmer9]

The throw wasn't to him, it was behind him. Coates has actually been getting better with catching the last few games. I believe I've seen Coates AND Coles have catches in 2 recent games together. That was a horrible throw from Palmer. That's the way I saw it.

You & a lot of fans appearantly see things wrong.

I was there, 13 rows up & behind the Bengals line on that play - We could see everything.

- Carson put the ball where it was supposed to be put: Where only the recevier has the chance to make a play on it. The ball hit Coats in both of his hands. BOTH. At what point do you think the receiver has to actually catch the ball? Some of you people think that if the QB throws the ball it's always caught & if not = Bad throw. That's ridiculous.

- WRs/TEs get paid to catch the football. There were at least 12 drops last night where the WR got both hands on the football. Was Chad's catch in the endzone a tough one? Absolutely. But it was a throw where only Chad could get it. Against DBs like Revis, that's the only throw & catch you're going to get & the WR has to come down with the ball. End of story. Hell, Bengals.com reported there were AT LEAST 3 catchable balls dropped on 3rd downs alone that would've moved the chanins! If you as a football fan don't see how that kind of awful WR play kills drives I don't know what to tell you.

[Palmer9]

The pass to Coats was thrown behind him. Your asking him to stop all his momentum and make a hard grab, that our WR's wouldn't have made?
Now, I agree, that Coats is not the best or even a good tight end considering he's not even 3rd on our depth chart, but that was a bad throw from Carson.
Now for the matter at hand...
I think Bratkowski needs to go, but I don't think this will instantly "cure" our offense. I think our O-Line has some problems, and we need to address WR, and maybe a QB.

Posts like this crack me up.

So, Coats had to turn his body away from the DB & "make a hard grab"? He's a paid NFL TE! He's supposed to beat his man & catch the ball. Also, he didn't have to stop or even slow down. WTF are you talking about? He had to bend a little because Carson put the ball low so the player covering Coats couldn't stick his arm in & knock it down. Regardless, it wasn't so low that Coats had to slow down is route or stop. The ball came in as Coats was running full speed & hit him in BOTH of his hands. He wasn't reaching backwards with a one handed effort trying to make something out of nothing. Give me a break. That play's been run a ton by the Bengals this year & the receiver is supposed to turn, catch, turn back & continue running with the ball. Coats dripped the ball & you could see it in his reaction of how mad at himself he was. Anything more than that is a fabrication.

You're right about one thing, the Bengals WRs wouldn't have made that catch either as they were dropping most of what came their way as well.

[fredtoast]

There were at least 12 drops last night where the WR got both hands on the football. .

There were some drops last night but no where near 12.

[phil413]

1. To take years off the life of Bengal fans
2. To drive the franchise back into the 90s

[redzone21]

Foschi can catch. So, i dont know what your saying. Coats... they should of cut him during the game.

What i'm talking about is we need a tight end that the oc and the qb are confident in. Our highest reception number for a tight end is 27 this season. Look at Heap, Gonzalas, Clark and so on. We dont utilize our tight ends because we are less than mediocre at the position.

[dilligaf]

You & a lot of fans appearantly see things wrong.

I was there, 13 rows up & behind the Bengals line on that play - We could see everything.

- Carson put the ball where it was supposed to be put: Where only the recevier has the chance to make a play on it. The ball hit Coats in both of his hands. BOTH. At what point do you think the receiver has to actually catch the ball? Some of you people think that if the QB throws the ball it's always caught & if not = Bad throw. That's ridiculous.

- WRs/TEs get paid to catch the football. There were at least 12 drops last night where the WR got both hands on the football. Was Chad's catch in the endzone a tough one? Absolutely. But it was a throw where only Chad could get it. Against DBs like Revis, that's the only throw & catch you're going to get & the WR has to come down with the ball. End of story. Hell, Bengals.com reported there were AT LEAST 3 catchable balls dropped on 3rd downs alone that would've moved the chanins! If you as a football fan don't see how that kind of awful WR play kills drives I don't know what to tell you.

You were 13 rows behind me and probably had people standing in front of you blocking your view on the opposite side of the field the play was on. I had front row seats at Bw3's with instant replay. I believe I saw right. With a handle like Palmer9 though, I would expect you to defend you boy. Look for it on NFL Replay. Then get back to me.

[CTA513]

Nobody should stick up for Bratkowski after seeing what the Jets did to help Sanchez and the passing game yesterday.

[caddie]

Zero hand-offs to Bernard Scott or Leonard..

WHY NOT?

Zero pass attempts to tight end position....

WHY NOT?

Ok I assume you are blind, don't know the sport or didn't watch the game.

Either way Leonard got atleast 1 screen pass that didnt do to much had a toss he gained like 4 on and a run late in the 4th that went for 20 yards until it was brought back because of a holding, that would be on the series shayne missed the 2nd kick.

There where also a couple passes to the tightend's Coats got 2 thrown his way dropped both of them when they where right in his hands. Foschi however was nowhere to be found he was to busy picking up the free rusher in the blitz.

Oh and why didnt scott get any carries? Because he was beasting on KR and ced but up 169 on 21. so yeah that would be why.

The real question is why didnt Ced have 33 carries. Bell Cow him to death it seemed he was the only one out there to play.

[LEATHER FACE]

Bernard Scott isnt a great runner. he is very athletic and a great return man, but i feel much much more comfortable with benson getting the bulk if not all carries. LJ would have been nice. why was he inactive?

Ya just don't get it. If you have a person like Bernard Scott, you have an offense that has massive potential to "improvise." The man can catch the ball. :ninja:

[Jus10]

Bob bratkowski is an idiot.

It disgusts me to see what kind of product our offense puts on the field. I feel bad for the players and great potential we have, that goes wasted. I feel even worse for the defense, who truly plays with integrity.

[savagehenry54]

Palmer, Benson, and Ocho plus a young improving OLine is not something the Bengals should waste one more minute of their time allowing Bratkowski to coordinate. Nor should it be hard to attract a brilliant young offensive mind to replace him.

I realize that Graham's shank jobs and Coles early fumble loomed large in the loss, but it should be clear to any objective onlooker that Brat's hackery has long been this teams achilles heel. What are we waiting for? Fire this guy.

The streaky, inconsistent, underachieving offense has been allowed to bog this team down without a change at the coordinator position for far too long.

When a team plays as bad as it did yesterday (except for Benson) and still should have had a chance to win it if not for shanked chip shots, that tells me it's a pretty good team in need of some tweaking, not a fraud as some have suggested.

Obviously, Graham has to go. Franchising a guy we all knew would crumble in any sort of pressure situation is the type of move that has some still calling this team the "Bungles".

I mean honestly, raise your hand if you thought for one second Graham was gonna make either one of those FG's....We all knew he was gonna miss as soon as the FG unit ran onto the field. Pathetic, but the obvious need for a change at the kicking position should not overshadow the overbearing need for a new OC.

Nothing will improve this teams chances to win a championship more than a bright young mind coordinating this offense. Nothing is more critical to this team's success than that. The players need to play better, but it is high time we held the guy in charge of the offensive unit accountable for his players lack of production. Every other team in the league does it, so what are we waiting for?

After a sloppy, unceremonious early exit from the playoffs like that, some heads need to roll. A news conference or press release in which it is announced that Brat has been fired and no attempts to resign Graham will be made should be the teams first order of business.

At a time like this it is of paramount importance to let the rest of the team know that people WILL be held accountable for anything less than a championship.

[caddie]

Him and Mikey are having a secret affair and If Brown fires him he will write a tell all book about it and it will not be a secret anymore.

[tgmaino]

Unfortunately I think he will be here for a while. You are forgetting this is the Brown family and they are in the business of making money and redeeming, not winning Super Bowls. In fact, I bet Mr. Brown is breathing a sigh of relief that they lost (Whewh!) because like he said almost 20 years ago..."It costs more money to go to the Super Bowl." So don`t get your hopes up. I got a feeling he will be right there in the booth in 2010 calling plays from his high school playbook. However, Graham may be gone.

[tlotharw]

Palmer, Benson, and Ocho plus a young improving OLine is not something the Bengals should waste one more minute of their time allowing Bratkowski to coordinate. Nor should it be hard to attract a brilliant young offensive mind to replace him.

I realize that Graham's shank jobs and Coles early fumble loomed large in the loss, but it should be clear to any objective onlooker that Brat's hackery has long been this teams achilles heel. What are we waiting for? Fire this guy.

The streaky, inconsistent, underachieving offense has been allowed to bog this team down without a change at the coordinator position for far too long.

When a team plays as bad as it did yesterday (except for Benson) and still should have had a chance to win it if not for shanked chip shots, that tells me it's a pretty good team in need of some tweaking, not a fraud as some have suggested.

Obviously, Graham has to go. Franchising a guy we all knew would crumble in any sort of pressure situation is the type of move that has some still calling this team the "Bungles".

I mean honestly, raise your hand if you thought for one second Graham was gonna make either one of those FG's....We all knew he was gonna miss as soon as the FG unit ran onto the field. Pathetic, but the obvious need for a change at the kicking position should not overshadow the overbearing need for a new OC.

Nothing will improve this teams chances to win a championship more than a bright young mind coordinating this offense. Nothing is more critical to this team's success than that. The players need to play better, but it is high time we held the guy in charge of the offensive unit accountable for his players lack of production. Every other team in the league does it, so what are we waiting for?

After a sloppy, unceremonious early exit from the playoffs like that, some heads need to roll. A news conference or press release in which it is announced that Brat has been fired and no attempts to resign Graham will be made should be the teams first order of business.

At a time like this it is of paramount importance to let the rest of the team know that people WILL be held accountable for anything less than a championship.

I remember reading about the Bengal's end of season process somewhere, so this could certainly be wrong, and I thought there were a series of meetings to discuss how things went and what should be done. If I recall this takes a few days or so and then things start to be implemented. So, while I agree that they need to get a new OC in here right way, it may be a little while before the decision is announced.

I also don't think that Bratkowski will be fired, per se, as his contract is complete with this season. It will be more like he will not get his contract renewed. Allowing a contract to lapse is something that the Bengals will do, as opposed to firing someone under contract with obligations to pay out the agreement.

The Graham debacle is an easy decision. I still have visions of the 2006 Steelers game that I was lucky enough to attend. While he may be the most accurate kicker in Bengal history, it is the big kicks that he misses are what I remember.

[savagehenry54]

I remember reading about the Bengal's end of season process somewhere, so this could certainly be wrong, and I thought there were a series of meetings to discuss how things went and what should be done. If I recall this takes a few days or so and then things start to be implemented. So, while I agree that they need to get a new OC in here right way, it may be a little while before the decision is announced.

I also don't think that Bratkowski will be fired, per se, as his contract is complete with this season. It will be more like he will not get his contract renewed. Allowing a contract to lapse is something that the Bengals will do, as opposed to firing someone under contract with obligations to pay out the agreement.

The Graham debacle is an easy decision. I still have visions of the 2006 Steelers game that I was lucky enough to attend. While he may be the most accurate kicker in Bengal history, it is the big kicks that he misses are what I remember.

No doubt about it, thank God both of those contracts are up, thusly increasing the chances they won't be back. This team is immediately so much better with a new OC and a new place kicker.

Not to mention, I get the feeling that if Zimmer had his full arsenal at his disposal yesterday i.e. Maualuga, Odom, Sims, we may have won 14-10.

I don't think the need to do right by Zimmer and give him a comparably good counterpart coordinating the Offense can be overstated.

The challenges yesterday were dumb, but I still believe in Marvin. I think him having to rely on Brat handicaps him the same way that Brat in turn handicaps the Offense.

[GodFather07]

After another horrible year of playcalling and lack of adjustments to the opponent, do you think Brat will finally go as a Bengal OC?

[The Lone Bengal Fan in FL]

No not really, but we can always hope.

[rydogg707]

I want Brat gone. Because he has no imagination, every game they talk about the OTHER teams OC, being imaginative, and key phrase “exploiting the weakness of the Bengals defense”. When can we say this year (other than the Bears game, maybe the Chargers game) that Brat did that.

Plus we need more talented receivers. I like Cosby in the slot, he’s a very promising “Wes Welker” type of receiver.

But Mike Brown will probably not let Brat go. So we’ll be stuck with another year of our 100 million QB handing the ball off….

Most teams will adjust their offense in favor of their QB’s strengths. And using the running game to seal the game up. This league is now a league of using a balanced attack to set up either the pass or the run. You have to do both well, but lean more on passing now.

[WhoDeyJon]

Just throwing it out there. Brat talked this year about how he had a new and improved playbook. Well, the running game playbook looked new and improved, but the PAssing playbook not so much. I saw 2 WR within 3 yards of each other on routes yesterday 3 different times.

Maybe Brat has poor plays. How is it I can watch Arizona spread out 4 wide, and have 2 of them running wide open ALL NIGHT LONG!

Sure, we may need more WR threats, but maybe they can't get open because Brat ***** at drawing up plays.

[keeper05]

You were 13 rows behind me and probably had people standing in front of you blocking your view on the opposite side of the field the play was on. I had front row seats at Bw3's with instant replay. I believe I saw right. With a handle like Palmer9 though, I would expect you to defend you boy. Look for it on NFL Replay. Then get back to me.

If you are an NFL tight end and you get both hands on the ball when you are upright and standing you had better catch it. I would expect that catch to be made by my friends playing backyard football most of the times. It should be made 100% of the time by an NFL TE. It was behind him and just off his hip. Big deal

[UCMehayward]

ITS MONDAY!!!!! WHY HASNT HE BEEN FIRED???? SERIOUSLY.... HE NEEDS TO GO... PACK UP HIS OFFICE AND SKIDADDLE!!! omg... im just tired of everyone blaming the lines pass protection or carsons inaccuracy or the wide recievers not getting open.... how about THE HORRIBLE SCHEMES AND PLAY CALLING ALL YEAR.. AAAARRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH....

sorry for the rant... but thats my offseason requirement... fire brat keep zimm..... that is all

[Poncho]

Well... technically, he doesn't need to be fired. His contract is up. Despite what my own sig says (I made it a long time ago)... which I should update... the ! looks weird too.

[The Bengal Thing]

Well... technically, he doesn't need to be fired. His contract is up.

True.... about Graham. Not so sure about Brat, I think he is still under contract

Lots of discussion on this (Brat) here:

http://boards.bengals.com/showthread.php?t=61014

[psychdoctor]

crap, i thought i would get on the boards and hear the "good" news about that sap being let go...dang.:cry:

[UCMehayward]

Well... technically, he doesn't need to be fired. His contract is up. Despite what my own sig says... which I should update... the ! looks weird too.

I thought it was zimms contract whos was up.... i still thought bob dumbkoski was under contract for next year.... i hope to GOD your right!

[Tommy <3's Da Bengals]

Brat's not really the problem. He had a great scheme that covered up the fact we started 3 college FA that never had started a NFL game before and kept Palmer alive through the entire season.

Heck, even though the Bengals ran the ball the second most of any team in the league next to the Jets, they were 26th in the league in sacks.

The thing is our WR's are terrible. Chad is still good, but neither Coles nor Caldwell can get open even against single coverage.

Brat did the best with the hand he was dealt/ thread.

[LockeCole]

I hope to god he is right too. the idea of brats contract being up sounds sooo sweet.

[Bengalsfan:(]

ITS MONDAY!!!!! WHY HASNT HE BEEN FIRED???? SERIOUSLY.... HE NEEDS TO GO... PACK UP HIS OFFICE AND SKIDADDLE!!! omg... im just tired of everyone blaming the lines pass protection or carsons inaccuracy or the wide recievers not getting open.... how about THE HORRIBLE SCHEMES AND PLAY CALLING ALL YEAR.. AAAARRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH....

sorry for the rant... but thats my offseason requirement... fire brat keep zimm..... that is all

one word

soP

[Poncho]

Despite what my own sig says (I made it a long time ago)... which I should update... the ! looks weird too.

TADA!!! Fixed to be more current.

[ILikeFootball]

i really think that if we re-sign him, it is a sign that Mike Brown truely does not care about this franchise (when it comes to winning games).

also if bob is back next year i will become very apathetic towards this team and invest my time and money elsewhere....i will still be a fan of the team, but the team will just be second or third on my things to do. with that said, i hope with all my heart that bob bratowski is no way shape or form a Bengal next year.

[XenoMorph]

Zero hand-offs to Bernard Scott or Leonard..

WHY NOT?

Zero pass attempts to tight end position....

WHY NOT?

Zero passes to Bernard Scott.

Why not line him or Leonard up on the outside instead of coats.

i still cant believe he tried a pass to coats

Palmer might be able to complete a pass if we werent running the same 4 plays over and over and over and over and over again. (hard to throw the ball when the D knows exactly what your doing)

[Tomkat]

...also if bob is back next year i will become very apathetic towards this team and invest my time and money elsewhere....i will still be a fan of the team, but the team will just be second or third on my things to do. ...

same here!

[eliminate08]

Maybe the question that should be asked is,.... why do you keep Bratowski? Couldn't be just because of longevity. Maybe he plays "safe?"

I am hoping others can find a reason to keep him. It doesn't make sense to keep him, if there's no reason to.

I'm not usually jumpin' on the "get Brat. outta her" wagon, but... I look at other offenses, and it's like the coaches and players don't watch other games or somethin'. Other offenses adapt, adjust, accommodate, and find a way.

One thing that stuck out in this game was that this team's 3rd best offensive threat, rarely saw the ball. I'm referring to Bernard Scott. Wow, he won a few games by himself. :ninja: Why is an offense depending on two receivers who are only dependable 50% of the time?

It's not Brat's fault? He's the captain of the ship of offense isn't he? If they get a free agent WR, and get Chase Coffman back healthy, maybe things will be different. ... or will they?

The Jets ran all kinds of different looks in running the ball. I've NEVER seen the Bengals do anything like that. The cowboys were blitzed obsessively, and guess what, ... they had something that would accommodate the blitz. Simple right? ... apparently not.

One thing is for sure. The Bengals and the Redskins, and any other team that has a bunch of receivers on the field, who are less than 6 feet tall, will always come up "short." It's time to get some players who can catch and won't mind that Carson throws the ball 8 feet high. Ya can't blame carson much. He's 6'5", how in the heck are you going to keep throwing to targets that can't nab a ball unless it is continuously thrown only 3 feet off of the ground?

Brat has had all the weapons in the world at his disposal in his career.

Zimmer has mediocre players and makes them great.

Get rid of Brat and pay Zim. This would automatically keep us in postseason play and we
would get rid of the stagnant predictable offense that has held Carson and this team back
for years.

[Poncho]

He needs to go.

[BengalRugby]

Isn't that he's the worst OC out there. It's that he doesn't have the mindset and plays to work well in a run first offense. The Bengals are now a run first offense, so he's not a god first as their OC, fairly straight forward.

Look at other running teams and you'll see streaks of creativity and some nice short routes that garner solid yards outside the curl and shovel pass. That, and dumping the ball to Leonard on third down is all Brat has in the old bag-o-tricks.



A wide open offense, with at least 2 solid deep threats and a receiving HB and Brat's the OC for you. Run first team, he's not the man for the job. 2 or 3 more players are needed for a wide open offense, which is too much to invest just to keep Bratkowski around.

[GreenDragon]

Brat just ***** flat out. The man has no offensive creativity.

[Tomkat]

From the article.."Offense goes under microscope"

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Offense-goes-under-microscope/14df6ba1-94b9-4580-acaa-a7c3304b3929

“You just have to be more efficient in the throws,” Bratkowski said. “If you say balanced, you don’t run it as much, then you’re not as good a running team. You can’t say one thing and do another. But what has to come out of it is more efficiency and generate more big plays when we do throw."

CHILD PLEASE!

Why can't you do BOTH, and be good at BOTH!?

[joefan]

Next year will be a long one.

[STC]

If that guy stays I would prefer that he keeps his mouth shut and not utter so much as a peep about anything other than how his purple Crayola broke.

[Tomkat]

I swear to God, with this stubborn, unimaginative, numbskull at the helm of the offense,
we have NO HOPE!

I just might have to "take a break" from the Bengals until he is GONE!

[STC]

I swear to God, with this stubborn, unimaginative, numbskull at the helm of the offense,
we have NO HOPE!

I just might have to "take a break" from the Bengals until he is GONE!

There is hope that Mike Brown understands that a lot of fans feel this way and decides not to keep Brat around.

If Brat affects his pocket, hopefully he'll make a change. He has to see ticket holders dropping like flies if he keeps this guy around. He isn't completely blind.

[Tomkat]

There is hope that Mike Brown understands that a lot of fans feel this way and decides not to keep Brat around.

If Brat affects his pocket, hopefully he'll make a change. He has to see ticket holders dropping like flies if he keeps this guy around. He isn't completely blind.

We can only pray that this is the case!

[Bengalsfan:(]

There is hope that Mike Brown understands that a lot of fans feel this way and decides not to keep Brat around.

If Brat affects his pocket, hopefully he'll make a change. He has to see ticket holders dropping like flies if he keeps this guy around. He isn't completely blind.

When has Mike Brown ever given two zhits about the fans?

[STC]

When has Mike Brown ever given two zhits about the fans?

He won't do it because of the fans. He will do it because fans not going to the game will hurt his pocket.

If Brat stays, less fans will show up.

[Bengalsfan:(]

i really think that if we re-sign him, it is a sign that Mike Brown truely does not care about this franchise (when it comes to winning games).


No offense, but are you kidding? I have been saying this since September, and I have a -26 to show for it.

MIKE BROWN DOESN'T CARE ABOUT WINNING!!! If he cared do you think he would hire a competent GM and competent people around him, instead of just bandaiding it enough to win a few games, and keep the sheeple happy.

Honestly, if you repeat the same thing for 20 years, and not much changes, do you think any normal person would have figured it out?

[Bengalsfan:(]

He won't do it because of the fans. He will do it because fans not going to the game will hurt his pocket.

If Brat stays, less fans will show up.

in the 90's Dave Shula was as incompetent a coach as anyone could imagine. His record was 19-53 from 1992-1996. Blackouts were the Norm....soP gave him 5!!!!!! years.

HIs money comes from the TV revenue, an empty stadium still keeps him rich. Again look at these boards there are enough Sheeple following this team that 8-8 with an occassional 10-6 and soP can laugh all the way to the bank.

And if you watched Hard Knocks you got a chance to meet Pumpkie...and when Mike leaves this earth or retires, we will have more of the same.

[ILikeFootball]

No offense, but are you kidding? I have been saying this since September, and I have a -26 to show for it.

MIKE BROWN DOESN'T CARE ABOUT WINNING!!! If he cared do you think he would hire a competent GM and competent people around him, instead of just bandaiding it enough to win a few games, and keep the sheeple happy.

Honestly, if you repeat the same thing for 20 years, and not much changes, do you think any normal person would have figured it out?

i notice how you conveniently went away when this team was 7-2... if you are going to go on your Sop rants and your negativity you lost all respect when you just vanished when the team was doing well. You have -26 rep points because you are tired and unorigianl. You have -26 rep because people do not like you.

[LockeCole]

It's great to see that this off-season has brought us all together as fans!

How long will we have to wait to see if any action is made to the coaching staff...

[ericbo]

by the latest front page article i don't think Brat is going anywhere. I'm not happy about it! I know the Bengals don't care what I think but this guy has underachieved for years. His failure to make in game adjustments is a joke. His stale and predictable play calling puts our offense at a disadvantage as soon as they step on the field. I believe execution is the most important factor to success, but wouldn't you want every advantage you can get out there. Having someone calling plays that catches defenses off guard would make things alot easier on our offense. D Coordinators must love playing the Bengals knowing they can just adjust to what we're doing and we won't change anything regardless of if it's working.

In my opinion this is not improving this team if he is kept. This team has a good core of players and isn't far from being a serious contender. But with how stale our offense was it's obvious a change is needed and he's the leader of that offense so the change should start there. To re-sign him would not present to the fans that you are trying to get better and offense, and it would make me believe that your not serious about winning a championship but that u just care about selling tickets. I'm starting to worry after this season the Bengals are just going to try to ride that success for a couple more years and stand pat this offseason.

[cyancincy]

I can't believe that we're revisiting the whole Mike Brown doesn't care about winning crap. Don't you think that if all's he cared about was money, he could be way cheaper? I mean seriously. There are millions of dollars that he could trim off the botom line, and field an equally pitiful team.

Mike Brown wants to win his way, he doesn't want to win at all costs. That has been the Bengals problem. We'll see how this offseason goes, but from the looks of last offseason, he might actualy be seeing the light..

[ericbo]

He won't do it because of the fans. He will do it because fans not going to the game will hurt his pocket.

If Brat stays, less fans will show up.

The only way he would listen is if the people who pay for those suites stop renewing them and make it known that the reason is Brat. He makes a ton off of those suites if they threatened to leave he would listen.

[ericbo]

I can't believe that we're revisiting the whole Mike Brown doesn't care about winning crap. Don't you think that if all's he cared about was money, he could be way cheaper? I mean seriously. There are millions of dollars that he could trim off the botom line, and field an equally pitiful team.

Mike Brown wants to win his way, he doesn't want to win at all costs. That has been the Bengals problem. We'll see how this offseason goes, but from the looks of last offseason, he might actualy be seeing the light..

That's not true, with the current CBA that we've had there has to be a minimum amount that he spends on players each year. Most years he's got plenty of cap room left so more could be spent it just isnt. Now that the owners opted to back out of that CBA there is no minimum amount that has to be spent and that's a scary thing if your a Bengals fan. I hope they get a new CBA in place with a salary cap or you can pretty much forget about us ever getting any top tier FA's, not that we're getting them now.

[Pittsburghs_#1_BENGALS_FAN]

I proposed earlier in a thread to draft Tim Tebow next year. Use him as a TE, FB and even a QB for different formations. The kid has enough athletic talent, it would work... BUT then I remembered we have the most unimaginative, tired offensive coordinator.

The craziest we get on O is "no.74 has reported as an elgible receiver" on just about every play... so until Brat goes I'm affraid it's going to be more of the same.


*****Players executing his calls do matter too and I'm not discounting the mistakes Palmer makes on reading routes on receivers running wrong routes and so on

LMFAO... Made it to my first regular season game this year against the Lions and the ladies behind me said... "I LOVE 74!!" everytime they announced him as 'eligible'.

[spazz70]

Step one complete...Zimmer re-signed....step two...bye bye Bratkowski

[BigReyfan]

He definitely needs to go, or our offense will continue to be inept. Martz or Jackson should be his replacement.

[XenoMorph]

No offense, but are you kidding? I have been saying this since September, and I have a -26 to show for it.

MIKE BROWN DOESN'T CARE ABOUT WINNING!!! If he cared do you think he would hire a competent GM and competent people around him, instead of just bandaiding it enough to win a few games, and keep the sheeple happy.

Honestly, if you repeat the same thing for 20 years, and not much changes, do you think any normal person would have figured it out?

MIKE BROWN Son of Paul does care about winnnig and just proved you wrong...

If he did not care about winning i am pretty sure M. Zimmer would not be annoucing his new 3 year deal... What i dont understand is if you truely believe the things you say then why are you on here wasting ours and your own time

[Norm]

Here's a question I just thought of...

How many coordinators in the leage, offense or defense, have held their position as long as Brat has (9 years)?

[Luigi]

Here's a question I just thought of...

How many coordinators in the leage, offense or defense, have held their position as long as Brat has (9 years)?

Dude, thats my issue. Not only that, but for a couple years, he had one of the best O's in the league, constantly compared to Indy's O.

And how many conversations is Brat in for open HC positions? :what:

[HearUsRoar]

MIKE BROWN Son of Paul does care about winnnig and just proved you wrong...

If he did not care about winning i am pretty sure M. Zimmer would not be annoucing his new 3 year deal... What i dont understand is if you truely believe the things you say then why are you on here wasting ours and your own time

Yeah he cares a lot about winning.

Been here 19 seasons.

109-190-1

0.365 winning percentage.

Yeah he cares a LOT.

[XenoMorph]

Yeah he cares a lot about winning.

Been here 19 seasons.

109-190-1

0.365 winning percentage.

Yeah he cares a LOT.

I didnt say he knows how to win just that he cares about it.

even if you say mike brown only cares about money nothing makes money like winning esp now that there is no revenue sharing....

[HearUsRoar]

I didnt say he knows how to win just that he cares about it.

even if you say mike brown only cares about money nothing makes money like winning esp now that there is no revenue sharing....

Had you said it you'd have been wrong in both cases.

If Mike Brown cared about winning he'd get a scouting department. We have easily, EASILY, the worst scouting department in the NFL. Why don't we have a good scouting department? Scouts cost money.

We don't have an indoor practice facility. Why don't we have an indoor practice facility? Those facilities cost money.

We franchised a kicker instead of a player who actually deserved it. Why did we do that? Because franchising a kicker proved to cost less money than virtually any other position except for punter.

Are you seeing a theme? Mike Brown doesn't give a hot damn about winning. He only cares a slight amount about winning as a by-product of making money, a la, ticket sales.

[whodeycincay]

I can't believe that we're revisiting the whole Mike Brown doesn't care about winning crap. Don't you think that if all's he cared about was money, he could be way cheaper? I mean seriously. There are millions of dollars that he could trim off the botom line, and field an equally pitiful team.

Mike Brown wants to win his way, he doesn't want to win at all costs. That has been the Bengals problem. We'll see how this offseason goes, but from the looks of last offseason, he might actualy be seeing the light..

Ok so hes hard headed

[HearUsRoar]

I can't believe that we're revisiting the whole Mike Brown doesn't care about winning crap. Don't you think that if all's he cared about was money, he could be way cheaper? I mean seriously. There are millions of dollars that he could trim off the botom line, and field an equally pitiful team.

Mike Brown wants to win his way, he doesn't want to win at all costs. That has been the Bengals problem. We'll see how this offseason goes, but from the looks of last offseason, he might actualy be seeing the light..

Oh, I agree, he's seeing the light...

http://www.empirecares.com/Plumbingimages/money-light-bulb.jpg

[fredtoast]

I just might have to "take a break" from the Bengals until he is GONE!

After all the Bengals have been through you are going to "take a break" after we win a division title?

How long have you been following this team. In the last two years things have been on the upswing around here. Mike finally showed that he is willing to sign expensive free agents (Odom, Coles). He brought in a great DC and just gave him a 3 year extension. we had oneof the best looking drafts ever. And NOW you are bailing just because he is keeping an OC who has proven that he can turn out top 10 offenses?

Amazing.

[fredtoast]

We have easily, EASILY, the worst scouting department in the NFL. Why don't we have a good scouting department? Scouts cost money.

then why are we able to draft better than most teams in the league and also find the best players released by other teams.

Who is doing that work for us if not the scouting department?

[Poncho]

I'd vote that we have the most MYSTERIOUS scouting dept in the NFL.

[XenoMorph]

then why are we able to draft better than most teams in the league and also find the best players released by other teams.

Who is doing that work for us if not the scouting department?

Fred our coaches are our scouting department them and katie's husband i believe

[tanzillathrilla]

anyone remember on hard knocks ( i think it was) or a hobson article saying how all offseason brat had been working on a playbook that used alot of double tight end sets? saying how this offense was really going to utililize the tight ends because of something he saw in kelly and utecht ( and eventually coffman). then when both kelly and utecht got hurt in the same week saying something like how he had to throw away half the play book.

all i am saying is that it looks like brat is here to stay and we gotta find something acutely positive about it. i cant stand his play calling or lack of trickery and adjustments, but who knows how this offense would of been this year with our 2 tight ends. i think when we offered a 1st round pick for martellus bennet really shows how much they were counting on tight ends this year. for the most part throughout his years we have had a pretty decent offense , disount 2008 because of fitzy and this year because we lost our tight ends and chris henry. next year barring not so many injuries should be a completely different offense even with brat. assuming coffman will be ok next year along with reggie or drafting somebody.

like everyone else , i am expecting either landing a big free agent receiver or drafting one in the early rounds , along with maybe getting gresham or the te from florida.
our offense is an updated playbook , stud te , stud receiver away from being pretty dang good. no more excuses for palmer after that.i am truly confident this team will be very good next year even with our schedule and tough division.

PROPS TO RE-SIGNING ZIMMER :denny:

WHO DEY:tiger:

[ILikeFootball]

stop making new Bob threads!

[tanzillathrilla]

i am allowed to because this one is not about his contract or hating on him:angry:

[whodey1984]

i am allowed to because this one is not about his contract or hating on him:angry:


Let's turn it into a Brat hate thread.


Brat is the worst OC in the game.

[ILikeFootball]

yeah i hate him too... do you know when his contract is going to expire?

[whodey1984]

yeah i hate him too... do you know when his contract is going to expire?


December of '06. Mellow

[tanzillathrilla]

Let's turn it into a Brat hate thread.


Brat is the worst OC in the game.


i agree he is bad.but he aint leaving and moaping and griping about it doesnt make things any better...besides you cant be that bad when you have a qb pass for 4000+ twice and have the afc's leading receiver like 4 years in a row.basically he needs weapons to cover his flaws. SO LETS GET SOME WEAPONS!

[Metalmann]

I agree. In a running based offense, the run doesn't help the pass any if you can't pass out of the run formation and play action, and its hard to do that with out a good tight end. We never had a big receiving threat at tight end this year. Although I'm not a big fan of Brat's playcalling, I think next year will be alot better if we can get coffman on the field or land a solid tight end through free agency. Plus Palmer will have had more time to perfect the play action style passing game. I also think that after he has his thumb surgery and goes back to handeling the ball normally, that defenses won't be able to key on the play action as well.

[ILikeFootball]

December of '06. Mellow

that is when his creativity expired.

[whodey1984]

i agree he is bad.but he aint leaving and moaping and griping about it doesnt make things any better...besides you cant be that bad when you have a qb pass for 4000+ twice and have the afc's leading receiver like 4 years in a row.basically he needs weapons to cover his flaws. SO LETS GET SOME WEAPONS!

Check the stat sheet kiddo.

[tanzillathrilla]

if you guys wanna hate on brat then go to a different thread, their not hard to find. its pretty easy to find flaws in a man like brat. try stepping up a level and find something good

[tanzillathrilla]

Check the stat sheet kiddo.

i just did check the stat sheet buddy

03' = 1,355 yards

04"=1,274 yards

05"=1,432 yards

06'= 1,369 yards


notice i said AFC not league..if you dont believe me go check them for yourself

i love being right

[HearUsRoar]

i agree he is bad.but he aint leaving and moaping and griping about it doesnt make things any better...besides you cant be that bad when you have a qb pass for 4000+ twice and have the afc's leading receiver like 4 years in a row.basically he needs weapons to cover his flaws. SO LETS GET SOME WEAPONS!

I love when people just take this notion that he's been here when we've done well so it must be as a result of him being here. No other possible scenario. Not that we had premier talent and they would have done well with anyone coaching them.

Here's an example, I got a nice bonus today. I also wore my silver faced watch instead of my black faced watch. Ergo, I got a nice bonus today because I'm wearing my silver watch. I mean that HAS to be it right? After all I DID wear my silver faced watch and I DID get a nice bonus today. How can that even possibly be disputed?

We DID have a good offense in 2005 and we DID have Bob Bratkowski as an OC then so that has to be it. Just don't pay any attention to the last few years being abysmal. Because that has to be something else. Something totally unrelated to Bratkowski of course.

[HearUsRoar]

if you guys wanna hate on brat then go to a different thread, their not hard to find. its pretty easy to find flaws in a man like brat. try stepping up a level and find something good

http://www.amcgltd.com/archives/bear-how-about-no-wj9.jpg

[whodey1984]

i just did check the stat sheet buddy

03' = 1,355 yards

04"=1,274 yards

05"=1,432 yards

06'= 1,369 yards


notice i said AFC not league..if you dont believe me go check them for yourself

i love being right

Lol 3 years ago yeah. If you want to ride that then go ahead. Mean while Chad will never lead the AFC again in yardage as a Bengal.

[whodey1984]

if you guys wanna hate on brat then go to a different thread, their not hard to find. its pretty easy to find flaws in a man like brat. try stepping up a level and find something good

I tried and no luck.

[tanzillathrilla]

I love when people just take this notion that he's been here when we've done well so it must be as a result of him being here. No other possible scenario. Not that we had premier talent and they would have done well with anyone coaching them.

Here's an example, I got a nice bonus today. I also wore my silver faced watch instead of my black faced watch. Ergo, I got a nice bonus today because I'm wearing my silver watch. I mean that HAS to be it right? After all I DID wear my silver faced watch and I DID get a nice bonus today. How can that even possibly be disputed?

We DID have a good offense in 2005 and we DID have Bob Bratkowski as an OC then so that has to be it. Just don't pay any attention to the last few years being abysmal. Because that has to be something else. Something totally unrelated to Bratkowski of course.


its too bad we cant cuss on these boards because i need to let off some steam after this one.

did i not say he is bad? did i not say " basically we need weapons to hide his flaws. so get some weapons"

read a little closer before writing a stupid metaphorical paragraph that proves nothing

summing it up for ya : my point is that he is bad but he is not the worst ever , and since we are keeping him we better get some weapons to help him out because the offense desperately needs it.

[whodey1984]

its too bad we cant cuss on these boards because i would have some words for ya.

did i not say he is bad? did i not say " basically we need weapons to hide his flaws. so get some weapons"

read a little closer before writing a stupid metaphorical paragraph that proves nothing

summing it up for ya : my point is that he is bad but he is not the worst ever , and since we are keeping him we better get some weapons to help him out because the offense desperately needs it.

Awe look, someone wants to be a big boy behind a computer screen. That's so cute. :rolleyes:

[tanzillathrilla]

Awe look, someone wants to be a big boy behind a computer screen. That's so cute. :rolleyes:

i guess thats not the same thing you were saying to me huh?
basically calling me a blind idiot?

minus cuss words i suppose.. sorry my vocabulary is not up to yours and find them quite useful

[whodey1984]

i guess thats not the same thing you were saying to me huh?
basically calling me a blind idiot?

minus cuss words i suppose.. sorry my vocabulary is not up to yours and find them quite useful


I've never called you any kind of name. I just think it's funny when people want to act like a bad arse behind a computer screen then probably tuck there tail and run if ever met in person.

Anyways back on topic.

[eliminate08]

I've never called you any kind of name. I just think it's funny when people want to act like a bad arse behind a computer screen then probably tuck there tail and run if ever met in person.

Anyways back on topic.

Brat sukks arse.Mellow

[tanzillathrilla]

well i agree those people are annoying..buti am not some wuss who gets online and bashes everything adn everybody just because i have the safety of being online.i am the guy that cant stand people who do that and you just happened to be the guy i finally had to say something too...and your whole paragraph was saying how you cant stand people who think the offense was good just because of him and bla bla bla ..aka calling me an idiot..

but yeah back on topic

[whodey1984]

well i agree those people are annoying..buti am not some wuss who gets online and bashes everything adn everybody just because i have the safety of being online.i am the guy that cant stand people who do that and you just happened to be the guy i finally had to say something too...and your whole paragraph was saying how you cant stand people who think the offense was good just because of him and bla bla bla ..aka calling me an idiot..

but yeah back on topic

Whatever makes you sleep at night.

[tanzillathrilla]

Whatever makes you sleep at night.

its funny you mention meeting in person and fighting

why? we both live in central ohio lol

but no actually i think its childish as hell to let an online chat turn into a fight ..but dont judge me as the guy to tuck his tail and run..not gonna happen

besides you live in columbus and being a bengals fan is somewhat hard to find. no hard feelings here. who dey

[whodey1984]

its funny you mention meeting in person and fighting

why? we both live in central ohio lol

but no actually i think its childish as hell to let an online chat turn into a fight ..but dont judge me as the guy to tuck his tail and run..not gonna happen

besides you live in columbus and being a bengals fan is somewhat hard to find. no hard feelings here. who dey


I don't have any hard feelings either, I was just saying.

There is more to Central Ohio than Columbus. :thumbsup:

[HearUsRoar]

its too bad we cant cuss on these boards because i need to let off some steam after this one.

did i not say he is bad? did i not say " basically we need weapons to hide his flaws. so get some weapons"

read a little closer before writing a stupid metaphorical paragraph that proves nothing

summing it up for ya : my point is that he is bad but he is not the worst ever , and since we are keeping him we better get some weapons to help him out because the offense desperately needs it.

Lighten up Francis.

So your entire point to all of your incoherent ramblings is that Bratkkowski, while bad, is not the single worst offensive coordinator EVER? That's your stance? That's what you're bringing to the table?

[brm13]

I love when people just take this notion that he's been here when we've done well so it must be as a result of him being here. No other possible scenario. Not that we had premier talent and they would have done well with anyone coaching them.

Here's an example, I got a nice bonus today. I also wore my silver faced watch instead of my black faced watch. Ergo, I got a nice bonus today because I'm wearing my silver watch. I mean that HAS to be it right? After all I DID wear my silver faced watch and I DID get a nice bonus today. How can that even possibly be disputed?

We DID have a good offense in 2005 and we DID have Bob Bratkowski as an OC then so that has to be it. Just don't pay any attention to the last few years being abysmal. Because that has to be something else. Something totally unrelated to Bratkowski of course.

I'm not a big Brat fan, I'd like to see him go. But, your example can be completely turned around. The offense ****** after 2005 and Brat was here so it had to be him. It couldn't be any other factors like injuries, Willie Anderson getting old, etc.?

[tbone77]

The Bengals can't go far with Brat. One only needs to look at all of the stupid penalties, delay of game penalties, the unnecessary spike he allowed at the end of the 1st half in then red zone against the Chargers. Obviously Brat is NOT getting the job done with the personnel in Cincinnati. He made a lot of money here. He had a couple good years. I wish him well, but this offense will never make it to the next level with Brat as OC.

[Comeback_Carson]

My take on Brat. Mike Brown gets no more of my money until Brat is out of town.

After spending over $500.00 for a weekend in Cincinnati to watch the Bengals lose to a rookie QB that settled it for me.

NO MORE $$$$$$$$$$$$$ FOR MIKE BROWN ON TICKETS, PARKING, COLLECTIBLES, JERSEYS, CAMP EXPENSES, HATS, ETC.

and if all you fans who are fed up with Brat will do the same we might get back to playing exciting football. Don't even think Super Bowl. Exciting football with a passing game would be enough for me.

[Chop Block]

Maybe the question that should be asked is,.... why do you keep Bratowski? Couldn't be just because of longevity. Maybe he plays "safe?"

I am hoping others can find a reason to keep him. It doesn't make sense to keep him, if there's no reason to.

I'm not usually jumpin' on the "get Brat. outta her" wagon, but... I look at other offenses, and it's like the coaches and players don't watch other games or somethin'. Other offenses adapt, adjust, accommodate, and find a way.

One thing that stuck out in this game was that this team's 3rd best offensive threat, rarely saw the ball. I'm referring to Bernard Scott. Wow, he won a few games by himself. :ninja: Why is an offense depending on two receivers who are only dependable 50% of the time?

It's not Brat's fault? He's the captain of the ship of offense isn't he? If they get a free agent WR, and get Chase Coffman back healthy, maybe things will be different. ... or will they?

The Jets ran all kinds of different looks in running the ball. I've NEVER seen the Bengals do anything like that. The cowboys were blitzed obsessively, and guess what, ... they had something that would accommodate the blitz. Simple right? ... apparently not.

One thing is for sure. The Bengals and the Redskins, and any other team that has a bunch of receivers on the field, who are less than 6 feet tall, will always come up "short." It's time to get some players who can catch and won't mind that Carson throws the ball 8 feet high. Ya can't blame carson much. He's 6'5", how in the heck are you going to keep throwing to targets that can't nab a ball unless it is continuously thrown only 3 feet off of the ground? I know i have said i ? his play calling but with all that has happend to this team i will give him a pass untill next season..If we dont have at least a top 10 OFF'S and dont make to the playoff's and or move further in the playoff's he's gone in my book.. but he has only what Mikey gives him to work with.. so some of the blame goes to Mikey.. Keep LJ and bring in some vet TE and a good hands REC the passing game will come alive..;)

[SmB-NYC]

Maybe another team will sign Brat as Head Coach and put us all out of our misery. :ninja:

[fredtoast]

I love when people just take this notion that he's been here when we've done well so it must be as a result of him being here. No other possible scenario. Not that we had premier talent and they would have done well with anyone coaching them..

I love when people just take this notion that he's been here when we've done poorly so it must be as a result of him being here. No other possible scenario. Not that we had poor talent and they would have done poorly with anyone coaching them.

Brat has been an OC for 13 years with lots of different players and six different starting QBs. In those 13 years his units have ranked in the bottom half of the league in scoring only 4 times. On the other hand they have finished in the top 10 almost half the time (6 of 13).

He has coached the #1 passing team in the league and finished in the top 6 in passing 3 times.

[RoarOfTheBengal]

I love when people just take this notion that he's been here when we've done poorly so it must be as a result of him being here. No other possible scenario. Not that we had poor talent and they would have done poorly with anyone coaching them.

Brat has been an OC for 13 years with lots of different players and six different starting QBs. In those 13 years his units have ranked in the bottom half of the league in scoring only 4 times. On the other hand they have finished in the top 10 almost half the time (6 of 13).

He has coached the #1 passing team in the league and finished in the top 6 in passing 3 times.

Fred, I'm with you on this. Brat isn't nearly as bad as most people on the boards make him out to be. But I think his biggest problem was just trying to change his philosophy to a run first mentality after being a high octane, big play offense for so long.

[phil413]

So 6 pages later has anyone asked if the reason Brat isn't fired is they're waiting Baltimore to lose (Hue Jackson)? Wishful thinking, or has this been tossed around enough?

[1whodeybrew]

Brat will be ok if he can go back to the spread formation. They also need to give Carson some control calling his plays from the no huddle. Marvin pushed for this huddle to happen saying it was better for the run game. When Ken Watson started his run average wasn't as high as Dee Dee Dorsey's and Marvin said the reason was Dorsey was able to get in a huddle where Watson didn't. Poor excuse but that's what Marvin said.

The down side is, Brat has already said not much will change from this year to next year. Yeah, that makes me want him back......NOT.

The problem in keeping Brat is he's been made to change his playbook and things didn't work out so good. You can only twist it so many times and players don't believe in the system your trying to run. If Brat would or if he could move back to the spread formation I would just assume to keep him because the players still know that system. If not, then your better getting a new OC. Lets face it, if Brat left this team for another team today he wouldn't take the system his ran this year with him but he would go back to his spread formations. That's what he knows and runs best.

[bengalinvegas]

I think I read somewhere that Bob Brat and Mick Cronin spent time together in California last year in the off-season working on their offensive strategies and how to score points.

Mick showed Brat how to pass effectively and Brat taught Mick how to finish the season strong. :tongue:

[tbone77]

I love when people just take this notion that he's been here when we've done poorly so it must be as a result of him being here. No other possible scenario. Not that we had poor talent and they would have done poorly with anyone coaching them.

Brat has been an OC for 13 years with lots of different players and six different starting QBs. In those 13 years his units have ranked in the bottom half of the league in scoring only 4 times. On the other hand they have finished in the top 10 almost half the time (6 of 13).

He has coached the #1 passing team in the league and finished in the top 6 in passing 3 times.

I didn't realize that his career stats were that good. I will give him credit where credit is due. But, something has not been clicking between Brat and the Bengals' offense for at least the past 2 seasons, if not the past three seasons.

Does anyone have a plot of his offenses over the past 10 years in terms of scoring? I believe the trend line would show a negative slope... You have to be mentally sharp, communicate extremely fast and clearly, think fast, and be creative and be able to adjust and evolve. Brat has not evolved on this team very well.

When I saw Brat allow Carson to spike the ball in the red zone against the Chargers with plenty of time on the clock and at least one timeout remaining, that was the final straw for me. Mike and Katie should have sent him packing last season. It was kind of clear to me that Carson wanted fresh coaching and a new OC... Brat and Carson are not getting it done. Keep Carson. Fire Brat.

It's very difficult to have any optimism with Brat calling th shots in Carson's helmet. Just think back on all the miscues between QB and receivers, passes intended for 85 but intercepted or nearly intercepted, delay of games, false starts, and predictable plays over the last two seasons.

The NFL has evolved. Brat has not. The NFL is designed for passing teams to excel. Just look at how the rules increasingly favor the receivers over the defenders. The NFL is designed for passing teams to prosper. Even the Steelers threw the ball a ton in their last championship season.

Even in what we can consider a terrible passing season and great rushing season for the Bengals, Carson's yards per passing attempt (6.64 yards per passing attempt) exceeds the average yards per rushing attempt by the Bengal's (4.07 yards per rushing attempt). Why rely so heavily on the run when the game is designed to favor teams to capitalize on passing plays??? Brat's commitment to the run does not make sense. Why rely so heavily on a conservative rushing game when the odds show that you will gain over 50% more yardage if you pass the ball??? I'm talking about basic statistics here. It's not rocket science. Why is Brat scared to let it fly.

Look at Kurt Warner and the OC in Arizona. They understand the basic odds. Passing = playing to win. Running = playing not to lose. And how exciting was it to watch the Packs/Cards game last week??? That is why they are in the playoffs so often lately. Kurt understands that he is going to throw some interceptions. That's ok. Especially on 3rd down, sometimes a deep interception is better than a punt in terms of field position. You gotta air it out and go for it in the NFL. That also helps your running game.

Running is not a reliable way to win. You need to pass the ball a lot and score points in order to make it anywhere in the NFL today. Heavy reliance on the run is NOT a recipe for success. The Bengals rely too heavily on the run. They were in the top 5 in rushing attempts this past season.

When you go to the casino, which game do you play? You play the game with the best odds! Throw the ball! 6.64 > 4.07!!! Passing > Rushing!!!

[fredtoast]

When you go to the casino, which game do you play? You play the game with the best odds! Throw the ball! 6.64 > 4.07!!! Passing > Rushing!!!

But the higher percentage of turnovers in the passing game equal this out a lot.

[tbone77]

But the higher percentage of turnovers in the passing game equal this out a lot.

Not really...

13 ints / 477 passing attempts = 2.7% chance of turnover
8 fumbles / 505 rushing attempts = 1.6% chance of turnover

And there's nothing wrong with a 30 yard int on 3rd down... But #85 needs to tackle after an int.

[cyancincy]

According to profootballweekly, he's middle of the pack mostly due to personnel problems

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/01/11/ranking-the-offensive-coordinators


18. Bob Bratkowski / Bengals
Evaluators praise Bratkowski for having to deal with the inconsistency of Carson Palmer and reinventing the offense to be more of a ground-based attack after the departure of T.J. Houshmandzadeh, running wild over their smashmouth division rivals while limiting turnovers.
SCOUT'S TAKE: "If you look at the running backs on their roster, from Game One last year to Game 16 this year, they turned over a new leaf and really established themselves as a running team. Cedric Benson was a workhorse. Brian Leonard is the best nickel running back in football. They did a heck of a job with a revamped O-line. Most of their offensive linemen starting in the playoffs (were) just guys. Three or four of them (had reject grades coming out of college), and he has had to overcome dealing with Ochocinco, or whatever he is calling himself now. The quarterback (Palmer) is good, not great, and he had to overcome his reputation for playing as good as he needs to. Palmer is not a top-10 quarterback in this league. He's good, not great. For the limited resources he had and the job the offensive line did, you have to commend (Bratkowski). The offensive line coach (Paul Alexander) deserves a lot of credit, too."

[tbone77]

According to profootballweekly, he's middle of the pack mostly due to personnel problems

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/01/11/ranking-the-offensive-coordinators


From the article -- "Palmer is not a top-10 quarterback in this league. He's good, not great. For the limited resources he had and the job the offensive line did, you have to commend (Bratkowski)."

How exactly were Brat's resources limited? He had a great stable of RBs, about $16 million worth of receivers lol, a first round draft pick for the O Line, a healthy O Line, plenty of protection for Carson, and Carson is actually a very good QB... The only resource that was really limited was TE. I guess that's a valid excuse? I don't think so. This team is stuck with Brat. Mike and Katie are too loyal to certain players and coaches. That is their weakness.

[jasonreku]

Do you really think were going to sell out every game next year? I know i paid $400 for me and my girlfriend to go to two games........ to watch horrible offensive play calling, i will not go to another game if he's still there.

Do you think we'll be any better then 20th as an offense ?

We will never win a playoff game with that play calling, ever

[gampy]

I will still go to one, or maybe two games no matter what.

I'm eying the visiting Dolphins this year, and maybe the Chargers.

[Brick]

He is staying. It was announced today.

[BradLoomis]

Darn shame...I wanted him gone after we beat the Ravens the second time...You all thought I was nuts. Said it takes 8 weeks to learn a new offense. Didn't need a new playbook. Not Brat's intellectual property. Anyway...Marvin had final say on play calling...Marving is a DC turned head coach. Go figure that his final decision on plays was none too good. Two things need to happen...

Brat needs to go NOW...unable to switch on the fly (preseason on) with his play calling. He is a 100% pass-first coach, and always will be.

Marvin's contract needs to not be renewed...He ruined a cohesive unit by cutting Brat off at the knees with his run-first mentality...Plus he has no killer instinct. Far from agressive enough when the opportunity presents itself.

[TigerJ@w]

He is staying. It was announced today.

link???

[SunsetBengal]

link???

go to frontpage of Bengals.com and click on article, something about date.

[TigerJ@w]

i don't recall him coming out and saying that on Monday. Does Hobson know what he is talking about? You would think ML would come out and say it. I have heard this before and the next thing you know a coach is fired.

[nomadicproctor]

Our offense thrived at the end of halves or games when we were down because they called all passing plays. It is plain as day. We need to let Carson get in his rhythm and STAY in his rhythm, then run the ball after we are up by 2 scores. Does anyone agree? And can someone please tell Marvin and Brat!!!

[fredtoast]

How exactly were Brat's resources limited? He had a great stable of RBs, about $16 million worth of receivers lol, a first round draft pick for the O Line, a healthy O Line, plenty of protection for Carson,.

Our O-line was weak. We rotated players like a revolving door and still couldn't protect Carson very well. Livings was an undrafted free agent. Roland, Cook, and Mathis had all been cut by other teams.

Also we had to remove a skill position player and replace him with an extra O-lineman in order to generate a rushing attack. tThat really limited what we could do.

[Ryan Mc]

I guess I'm one of the few people who doesn't care if Brat goes or not. Maybe some new ideas on offense would make a difference, so I wouldn't shed a tear if the team went in a new direction, but I've just never been convinced that Brat's playcalling is our biggest problem on offense. Nail down that pass protection and get a receiving TE that dominates the middle of the field and and our passing game will take a massive leap forward even with Brat still at the helm.

People underestimate our limitations on offense talent-wise; take a look at the scouting comments posted earlier in the thread about Carson being inconsistent and our O-line being patchwork. Those are legit comments, most people on here just don't want to see it. And, as great as Chad is, defenders know he's basically never going to run a short slant or shallow crossing route. And without great receiving threats at TE and RB it makes it much easier to cover when you don't have to play all the routes.

[Robbie Sharp]

I guess I'm one of the few people who doesn't care if Brat goes or not. Maybe some new ideas on offense would make a difference, so I wouldn't shed a tear if the team went in a new direction, but I've just never been convinced that Brat's playcalling is our biggest problem on offense. Nail down that pass protection and get a receiving TE that dominates the middle of the field and and our passing game will take a massive leap forward even with Brat still at the helm.

People underestimate our limitations on offense talent-wise; take a look at the scouting comments posted earlier in the thread about Carson being inconsistent and our O-line being patchwork. Those are legit comments, most people on here just don't want to see it. And, as great as Chad is, defenders know he's basically never going to run a short slant or shallow crossing route. And without great receiving threats at TE and RB it makes it much easier to cover when you don't have to play all the routes.

Well Bobby Bouchier DID bail out a coach with Brat's ability reading from "coaching for dummies" in the Waterboy so maybe it will work. TE? We found one that could catch across the middle, and after we affirmed he could he was promptly replaced by the one that consistently drops the ball.Before drafting another one, what about Coffman? Will he be back to do battle and show us why he was drafted, or become another Simpson? Receiving threats at RB? Scott can catch the freakin ball and so can Leonard; pretty sure Larry Johnson could as well.But when deciding who goes in, Brat must have a checklist...RB..check because everybody knew you weren't gonna see any two of them on the field at the same time running a play designed to go to either/or and confuse the defense. Nope...Benson, power back up the middle for 1st and second downs, Leonard..third down back. Scott, standing by for Benson in case he gets hurt or tired. When he does, put the scatback (Scott) in and run him up the middle as if he were Benson. Our best hope is that we become totally proficient at passing and running, thereby foiling the strategy we had this year of leaning towards whichever one was least effective on a given day and disregarding the other. On a positive note, Benson proved just how beastly he really is and what a load he can carry. Thank you Chicago!:rolleyes:

[IrishBengalFan]

ok i know there are many, MANY thread devoted to bratkowski, and many of the other thread degenerate into a fight about him, so i have decided to take the neutral route and look into the numbers of our offense during the regular season to find out just how successful he was or wasnt.

looking at the rushing numbers first, since we were most successful in that department:

we had 128.5 yards a game in 2009, at 4.1 yards a carry. we are 9th in this category, but every team above us (including the new york jets) has a better rushing average. we ran the ball the fourth most times in the league, and ended up at 9th in rushing.

in my opinion, our rushing numbers were good, but not great. we ran it well at times, especially against well ranked defensive teams.

now, looking in more depth at the other teams that ran the ball better than us, how did these teams pass?

dallas and the saints are the only two teams who threw it better than us, if you dont count the titans (who were playing catch up in all 6 games at the beginning of the season) and baltimore (who only ever had a good passing game against awful teams that they ran all over too). Carson Palmer > Joe Flacco, Flacco just has a better overall team. In terms of dallas and new orleans, i believe tony romo and brees (obviously) > Palmer. They also werent carrying any injuries, and both have great tight ends and receivers and even receiving backs which i dont believe we have any of this outside of chad.

looking at the receivers on these teams objectively:

chad = miles austin (although mile austin is going to be pretty good IMO) = marques colston (although i would probably swap chad and colston in a heartbeat), now we have

coles and caldwell =/= roy williams and robert meachem or even patrick crayton and devery henderson.

comparing tight ends (witten and shockey) to any of ours currently on our roster is laughable, and leonard (although he has great heart) is no reggie bush outta the backfield or even tashard choice/felix jones.

now since i have demonstrated that our offensive talent level handicaps our ability to run and pass effectively, lets focus on our own passing game and specifically carson palmer.

I am not here to defend carson, i think he played mediocre this season, over throwing wide recievers and throwing a good few picks, but we have to remember, a couple of those picks were last second hail marys - TONY SCHEFFLER caught one in week 1 against the broncos (hope he catches 70 of carsons next year!!), and namdi asogmugha caught one against the raiders. also, we have to review the drop problem. coats single-handedly dropped two touchdown passes, and we had 32 drops all season (most in the nfl). lets now review carsons stats with these simple changes:

so remove 2 INTs, add 2 TDs, add (lets say they drop half of what they drop all season) 16 catches (at the average pass of 6.6) and lets see where he is at.

TDs: 23
INTs: 11
3200 yards
304/466 - 65.2 % completion rate
6.6 yards/attempt

using http://www.primecomputing.com/ to calculate his passer rating:

passer rating of 91.67, which would have been 12th best in the league at seasons end.

how many more runs than passes did bob brat call in 2009?

505 passes.
477 passes.

that right there is a pretty balanced offense.

take what you will from this information (all from NFL.com), and make you own decision on brat without bias or emotion.

heres my take on this information:

brat is not a great offensive coordinator, but he had to change the gameplan totally this season to suit the run first mentality. He did it with a no-name line, a beat up QB, a street FA running back and one solid receiving threat. In this case, he is successful.

What was the reason we looked bad in some regular season games? consistency of carson and the receivers.
Denver game, carsons first game back, leads game winning drive, they lose on freak play.
Houston game, defense didnt show up, it was the game after the baltimore game, where so much emotion was released.
Oakland game, poor play by offense, defense couldnt stop the slot receivers.
San Diego game, We played our hearts out, leon hall had his worst game ever, and we just got beat by the second seeded AFC team and a super bowl pick.
Minnesota, we were plain outgameplanned and outplayed.
AND jets, it was a good overall plan to rest the guys and find out what the JETs were about, but our defense looked bad this game.

FINALLY in the playoffs, im not sorry to say palmer looked awful, and shayne graham really ****ed us up. if he had of made one of those kicks, i believe it would be a different story right now, carson would have won the game in the final seconds.

this season really comes down to the final game, and how bad carson was, and he was, terrible. but the passing games troubles are not rooted in him, brat or the drops and poor talent level. It is all of their fault. YOU CANNOT HAVE BOTH A GOOD RUNNING GAME and a GOOD PASSING GAME easily in the nfl. i have confidence that a whole off season of carson and his receivers working together, a nice shiny route-running, solid hands receiver and the development of coffman will ensure we have a better passing game next year.

but dont blame carson for everything this season. the playoff game, fair enough. but carson honestly is a pretty damn good QB.

[djam]

ok i know there are many, MANY thread devoted to bratkowski, and many of the other thread degenerate into a fight about him, so i have decided to take the neutral route and look into the numbers of our offense during the regular season to find out just how successful he was or wasnt.

looking at the rushing numbers first, since we were most successful in that department:

we had 128.5 yards a game in 2009, at 4.1 yards a carry. we are 9th in this category, but every team above us (including the new york jets) has a better rushing average. we ran the ball the fourth most times in the league, and ended up at 9th in rushing.

in my opinion, our rushing numbers were good, but not great. we ran it well at times, especially against well ranked defensive teams.

now, looking in more depth at the other teams that ran the ball better than us, how did these teams pass?

dallas and the saints are the only two teams who threw it better than us, if you dont count the titans (who were playing catch up in all 6 games at the beginning of the season) and baltimore (who only ever had a good passing game against awful teams that they ran all over too). Carson Palmer > Joe Flacco, Flacco just has a better overall team. In terms of dallas and new orleans, i believe tony romo and brees (obviously) > Palmer. They also werent carrying any injuries, and both have great tight ends and receivers and even receiving backs which i dont believe we have any of this outside of chad.

looking at the receivers on these teams objectively:

chad = miles austin (although mile austin is going to be pretty good IMO) = marques colston (although i would probably swap chad and colston in a heartbeat), now we have

coles and caldwell =/= roy williams and robert meachem or even patrick crayton and devery henderson.

comparing tight ends (witten and shockey) to any of ours currently on our roster is laughable, and leonard (although he has great heart) is no reggie bush outta the backfield or even tashard choice/felix jones.

now since i have demonstrated that our offensive talent level handicaps our ability to run and pass effectively, lets focus on our own passing game and specifically carson palmer.

I am not here to defend carson, i think he played mediocre this season, over throwing wide recievers and throwing a good few picks, but we have to remember, a couple of those picks were last second hail marys - TONY SCHEFFLER caught one in week 1 against the broncos (hope he catches 70 of carsons next year!!), and namdi asogmugha caught one against the raiders. also, we have to review the drop problem. coats single-handedly dropped two touchdown passes, and we had 32 drops all season (most in the nfl). lets now review carsons stats with these simple changes:

so remove 2 INTs, add 2 TDs, add (lets say they drop half of what they drop all season) 16 catches (at the average pass of 6.6) and lets see where he is at.

TDs: 23
INTs: 11
3200 yards
304/466 - 65.2 % completion rate
6.6 yards/attempt

using http://www.primecomputing.com/ to calculate his passer rating:

passer rating of 91.67, which would have been 12th best in the league at seasons end.

how many more runs than passes did bob brat call in 2009?

505 passes.
477 passes.

that right there is a pretty balanced offense.

take what you will from this information (all from NFL.com), and make you own decision on brat without bias or emotion.

heres my take on this information:

brat is not a great offensive coordinator, but he had to change the gameplan totally this season to suit the run first mentality. He did it with a no-name line, a beat up QB, a street FA running back and one solid receiving threat. In this case, he is successful.

What was the reason we looked bad in some regular season games? consistency of carson and the receivers.
Denver game, carsons first game back, leads game winning drive, they lose on freak play.
Houston game, defense didnt show up, it was the game after the baltimore game, where so much emotion was released.
Oakland game, poor play by offense, defense couldnt stop the slot receivers.
San Diego game, We played our hearts out, leon hall had his worst game ever, and we just got beat by the second seeded AFC team and a super bowl pick.
Minnesota, we were plain outgameplanned and outplayed.
AND jets, it was a good overall plan to rest the guys and find out what the JETs were about, but our defense looked bad this game.

FINALLY in the playoffs, im not sorry to say palmer looked awful, and shayne graham really ****ed us up. if he had of made one of those kicks, i believe it would be a different story right now, carson would have won the game in the final seconds.

this season really comes down to the final game, and how bad carson was, and he was, terrible. but the passing games troubles are not rooted in him, brat or the drops and poor talent level. It is all of their fault. YOU CANNOT HAVE BOTH A GOOD RUNNING GAME and a GOOD PASSING GAME easily in the nfl. i have confidence that a whole off season of carson and his receivers working together, a nice shiny route-running, solid hands receiver and the development of coffman will ensure we have a better passing game next year.

but dont blame carson for everything this season. the playoff game, fair enough. but carson honestly is a pretty damn good QB.

I like your post, I like what you're thinking and I agree---except the obvious. We can't take those 2INTs back or get 16 of those drops back. I know it was just to back your point, but it did happen. I agree Carson played better than his stats show and I also agree he didn't play to full potential. Our WR's hurt us badly, and so did the OL with so many drive killing penalties.

As far as Brat goes. What I think is that he is a good OC in his own system with the right players for it. Problem is we no longer have the right players for it and we are running a different system anyway. Can Brat adapt and come up with some good plays? Sure, but I dont think he's very used to this style of O, and his adjustments are lacking and really always have been. He comes in often with a good game plan, but once they adjust, it seems to fizzle out.

That said, after a 6 win turnaround in one offseason, I'm on board and support whoever we have. We have more positives than negatives for sure.

[Bring Back Sam88]

This is my response. I was actually impressed that I got a response so quickly.

We have a lot of questions in our AFC North inbox this week. So let's get to the bottom of issues from each team.

Ed Langlais from Cabot, Ark., wants to know if the Cincinnati Bengals will make a change at offensive coordinator.

James Walker: I don’t anticipate any changes with Bengals OC Bob Bratkowski, Ed. The feeling I’m getting from the organization is the offense was limited because of personnel, and the coaching staff did what it had to do (i.e. run the ball) to be successful. The Bengals didn’t have enough deep threats and the offensive line couldn’t pass protect for more than three seconds some weeks. What were they supposed to do? That’s the vibe I’m getting. If Cincinnati adds a speedy receiver and gets better protection, the Bengals feel their offense will be more balanced moving forward.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth

I obviously asked him what he thought before the announcement earlier this week. He seemed to make it pretty clear that the Bengals' opinion didn't necessarily reflect his own. I was interested in his thoughts since he keeps pretty good tracks of the AFCN.

[tbone77]

This is my response. I was actually impressed that I got a response so quickly.

We have a lot of questions in our AFC North inbox this week. So let's get to the bottom of issues from each team.

Ed Langlais from Cabot, Ark., wants to know if the Cincinnati Bengals will make a change at offensive coordinator.

James Walker: I don’t anticipate any changes with Bengals OC Bob Bratkowski, Ed. The feeling I’m getting from the organization is the offense was limited because of personnel, and the coaching staff did what it had to do (i.e. run the ball) to be successful. The Bengals didn’t have enough deep threats and the offensive line couldn’t pass protect for more than three seconds some weeks. What were they supposed to do? That’s the vibe I’m getting. If Cincinnati adds a speedy receiver and gets better protection, the Bengals feel their offense will be more balanced moving forward.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth

I obviously asked him what he thought before the announcement earlier this week. He seemed to make it pretty clear that the Bengals' opinion didn't necessarily reflect his own. I was interested in his thoughts since he keeps pretty good tracks of the AFCN.

The media has swallowed this excuse hook line and sinker... "The problem was with the personnel, not the OC"

I disagree with this excuse. The pass protection was fine this season. Carson had plenty of time in the pocket this season compared to the debacle last season.

[peteao]

This is my response. I was actually impressed that I got a response so quickly.

We have a lot of questions in our AFC North inbox this week. So let's get to the bottom of issues from each team.

Ed Langlais from Cabot, Ark., wants to know if the Cincinnati Bengals will make a change at offensive coordinator.

James Walker: I don’t anticipate any changes with Bengals OC Bob Bratkowski, Ed. The feeling I’m getting from the organization is the offense was limited because of personnel, and the coaching staff did what it had to do (i.e. run the ball) to be successful. The Bengals didn’t have enough deep threats and the offensive line couldn’t pass protect for more than three seconds some weeks. What were they supposed to do? That’s the vibe I’m getting. If Cincinnati adds a speedy receiver and gets better protection, the Bengals feel their offense will be more balanced moving forward.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth

I obviously asked him what he thought before the announcement earlier this week. He seemed to make it pretty clear that the Bengals' opinion didn't necessarily reflect his own. I was interested in his thoughts since he keeps pretty good tracks of the AFCN.


Well, I think when he said, "What were they supposed to do?", it sounds like he would do the same thing.

That's my take!

[Bring Back Sam88]

Followed up with "that's the vibe I'm getting".

[BengalzHacker]

The media has swallowed this excuse hook line and sinker... "The problem was with the personnel, not the OC"

I disagree with this excuse. The pass protection was fine this season. Carson had plenty of time in the pocket this season compared to the debacle last season.

No it wasn't. Carson barely had time to look for his first and second targets before he had people on him. Give him a couple more seconds to survey the field and he'll light it up in the passing game. Our OLmen were studs run blocking but they've got a lot to learn about pass blocking, though I feel with another year of training under their belts they'll be better this coming year.

[peteao]

Followed up with "that's the vibe I'm getting".

Well, my opinion which doesn't mean a darn thing, is...

if Carson had another reciever that he could totally trust, besides Chad, and a line that protected him with at least on more second, we would have passed a lot more.

I know ML wanted to concentrate on the run more...but as the season progressed he knew that Chad was the only WR weapon so he had to lean on the run even more.

Then Carson hurt his left thumb and had to hand of differently.

That took away the play-action fake that was working well before he got hurt.

Then Slim got hurt and went on the IR....(Rest in Peace)

So now teams defense against us was 8 in the box and double Chad.

[ExtraNirvana]

Our line reminded me of the Steelers line last year. Can run like hell but the only game they had in pass protection is that people expected the run.

[BengalRugby]

The Bengals were so bad pass protecting that Whitworth, with his 10 penalties and 6 sacks given up, seemed like a pro bowler to some.

[ShovelheadT]

The Bengals were so bad pass protecting that Whitworth, with his 10 penalties and 6 sacks given up, seemed like a pro bowler to some.

Is this Whit's little brother, because Alexander has him with 1 sack. Whit rated himself with 1.5 sacks allowed.

[jarhead]

The Bengals were so bad pass protecting that Whitworth, with his 10 penalties and 6 sacks given up, seemed like a pro bowler to some.

I thought Whit only gave up 1-1.5 sacks?

I seem to remember Roland standing over the defender that sacked Palmer multiple times.

Palmers rushing #'s + sacks definitely indicated protection issues.

[Norm]

The Bengals were so bad pass protecting that Whitworth, with his 10 penalties and 6 sacks given up, seemed like a pro bowler to some.
I question the sacks...but I wonder just how many penalties he had this season? I'm betting he was one of the most penalized O-linemen in the league in '09.

[McC]

I question the sacks...but I wonder just how many penalties he had this season? I'm betting he was one of the most penalized O-linemen in the league in '09.

From what I remember, Whit got a bunch of his penalties holding on run plays. And I'll still take a hold on the LT over a knot on the QB's head. He was not perfect. But he was decent and he'll be better next year.

[kmccray7]

We haven't had a viable offense since 2006. My problem is, if our only problem truely is lack of deep threat, why has it taken us 3 years to figure it out and NOW we'll finally address it in the offseason.

If we were banking on Simpson to be the solution, then we're basically starting over, again.

[BigCatFan]

Umm, he's been with the organization for some time now. You'd think, in theory, he would be responsible for some of the personnel decisions on the offensive side of the ball. We really weren't burdoned with too many injuries (outside of CH).

So, if the personnel is a problem... shouldn't he be to blame for that as well?

[JoePong]

Palmer had plenty of time to throw this year.

[XenoMorph]

The media has swallowed this excuse hook line and sinker... "The problem was with the personnel, not the OC"

I disagree with this excuse. The pass protection was fine this season. Carson had plenty of time in the pocket this season compared to the debacle last season.

its the OC's job to play to the personel's strenghts.. but instead we will run b Scott up the middle

[kmccray7]

I hate that this seems to be a "player" problem. Our problem was, we had our O-line, a Tackle in at TE, Full back, and 1 WR (chad) outside.... and at times, we'd take the full back out and put Coles out wide.... but when i say out wide... i mean, 3 feet off of the Tackle.

We were bunched up. And for whatever reason we actually did try to throw out of that package, it's easy to put 2 guys on chad... i mean, it's simple numbers and horrid horrid formations/playcalling.. i mean, if i were a defensive coordinator, i'd be so happy to see big Dennis Roland in a TE. it's not like we're going to throw to him, so lets bring everyone up to the line of scrimage. So, in that case, we have 9 guys to block.. (chad wide, carson not blocking)... and 9 1/2 or 10 people able to tackle. i say 1/2 cuz the safety only really has to be there for a half a second make sure it's not a throw to chad deep, but, it's not like he was more than 3 feet wide of tackle, so he can still play on the line. So we're not allowing for any double teams or cut backs or anything because any one person's mistake and we're screwed.

We dont' have the talent in the coaches box, not on the field. There are so many other teams out there that score more points and move the ball in the air with much less talent than we have.

[CornerBlitz]

We need more misdirection plays, and better playacton. Basically if we want to be a run oriented offense, it should make the passing game easier, just look at the jets and how efficient they were when they decided to pass. Unfortunately Brat will never figure out how to utilize our players and in the end we will be a below avg offense again. Nobody is saying that it is Brats fault 100%, but he definitely is not worthy of continuing his post as OC. It's too bad MB is too cheap or too stupid to realize that.

[Derrick]

The thing that makes this so frustrating is everyone knows nothing will be done, no changes will be made. It dosent even matter if we get a new OC, Marvin is running the show on offense, he wants to be a running team. Nothing will change as long as Marvin is here.

Sadly Marvin has proven he can't run the defense and certainly can't run the offense. In all seriousness, what else is there? Oh, yeah, the kicking game. I should have known.:rolleyes:

[Grizzly2k1]

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Update-Ochos-helping-hands-Simmons-back/06a2ab41-937c-41f1-bf50-61a5ee32d40b

Read the part towards the end where it says Simmons!

[MarvyMar]

Eventhough Bob may be coming back. The only people saying it are Hobson and Brat himself.

Marvin made some implications, but no direct confirmation on Bratkowski.

[BritishBengal]

I just can't see him losing his job. It hurts to say it but I think with the Bengals getting into the postseason Bob is safe :angry:

[momadance02]

PLEASE DEAR GOD...FIRE BRATKOWSKI. Seriously contemplating NOT renewing season tickets which I have had for 20 years if we bring his weak offense back.

I imagine the offense would have had more success with real TE's and less dropped balls.

You can only do so much with what you have at the moment.

[HarleyDog]

PLEASE DEAR GOD...FIRE BRATKOWSKI. Seriously contemplating NOT renewing season tickets which I have had for 20 years if we bring his weak offense back.

:what:

[spinksjinx]

PLEASE DEAR GOD...FIRE BRATKOWSKI. Seriously contemplating NOT renewing season tickets which I have had for 20 years if we bring his weakass offense back.


Hobson is hired by the Bengals, his job is to find light at the end of a tunnel. You really believe a writer paid by any team is going to trash them?

Come on, Hobson is pretty damn good in the articles he writes. I think he doesn't show the bias side everyone points at him. He is often critical and points out the mistakes we all see and know. But he will never go on the record and saying people shouldn't be returning or be fired.

That said, Bratkowski knows the passing game. I am surprised he saw as much success with his runs than he did. It was never his forte. But Bratkowski didn't cause the overthrown passes, dropped balls and INTs. Only so much can be to blame on Bob. I think he gets a bad rap more so than he deserves. Especially when Marvin basically tells him to run and pass.

[tenacious-B]

When you get down to it, Sheppard is more to blame than Brat. Like a previous post said, Brat didn't drop all those passes and run all those wrong routes, and over-throw the ball, his crappy core of poorly coached WR's did, and that's Sheppard's fault.

Fire Mike Sheppard!

[TTL]

When you get down to it, Sheppard is more to blame than Brat. Like a previous post said, Brat didn't drop all those passes and run all those wrong routes, and over-throw the ball, his crappy core of poorly coached WR's did, and that's Sheppard's fault.

Fire Mike Sheppard!

I'm pretty sure Sheppard is being considered as Zampese's replacement, if he leaves for Chicago. Sweet!

[eliminate08]

When you get down to it, Sheppard is more to blame than Brat. Like a previous post said, Brat didn't drop all those passes and run all those wrong routes, and over-throw the ball, his crappy core of poorly coached WR's did, and that's Sheppard's fault.

Fire Mike Sheppard!

Sheppard needs to go too, but i am still holding out hope for a fresh face at OC.

[LockeCole]

I'm waiting to hear some good news for this week. With Baltimore losing and the words in the article on the front page about Simmons. It's just odd how most of the coaches have stated they have been re-signed offical and Brat just saying he'd be back but no word of an offical contract. Maybe it's really all up in the air. They just may be looking at his body of work over last year and making this decision. Either way, if we keep him we get continuity and if he leaves we have hope.

[cindaddy]

I'm waiting to hear some good news for this week. With Baltimore losing and the words in the article on the front page about Simmons. It's just odd how most of the coaches have stated they have been re-signed offical and Brat just saying he'd be back but no word of an offical contract. Maybe it's really all up in the air. They just may be looking at his body of work over last year and making this decision. Either way, if we keep him we get continuity and if he leaves we have hope.

I agree completely. It's extremely odd. It's like they are waiting on a yes/no from someone else before they confirm Bob's return. Strange indeed.

[brm13]

I agree completely. It's extremely odd. It's like they are waiting on a yes/no from someone else before they confirm Bob's return. Strange indeed.

Yeah, likely maybe somebody who had a job that didn't end until this weekend. Hue Jackson is now free to consider a promotion from QB coach in Baltimore to OC in Cincinnati. I have been thinking all along that this is what Marvin wants to do. We'll see if Hue wants to come here and if Mike B will let Marvin replace Brat.

[always a bengal]

I know his contract is up. Will he get a muti-year extension or a one-year deal. God I hope Mikey don't bring him back. It is Mike Brown's decision not Marvin's. Brat's playbook is predictiable and stale as a 2 week old doughnut. If he do come back, I will give up hope for the Bengals next season.

[WeezyBengal]

ok

[CoC614]

I know his contract is up. Will he get a muti-year extension or a one-year deal. God I hope Mikey don't bring him back. It is Mike Brown's decision not Marvin's. Brat's playbook is predictiable and stale as a 2 week old doughnut. If he do come back, I will give up hope for the Bengals next season.

:horse::horse::horse::horse::horse::horse::horse:: horse::horse::horse::horse::horse::rock on:

[Bonnie Bengal]

I know his contract is up. Will he get a muti-year extension or a one-year deal. God I hope Mikey don't bring him back. It is Mike Brown's decision not Marvin's. Brat's playbook is predictiable and stale as a 2 week old doughnut. If he do come back, I will give up hope for the Bengals next season.

It was on the front page probably a week ago that Brat said he was coming back.

[LockeCole]

I know his contract is up. Will he get a muti-year extension or a one-year deal. God I hope Mikey don't bring him back. It is Mike Brown's decision not Marvin's. Brat's playbook is predictiable and stale as a 2 week old doughnut. If he do come back, I will give up hope for the Bengals next season.

Where is The Bengal Thing!? This isnt my job!!!

There is another thread on this man. Plenty of discussion on the topic and answers to your questions.

http://boards.bengals.com/showthread.php?t=61014

[WhoosierDey06]

It was on the front page probably a week ago that Brat said he was coming back.


:*(

[NC_Bengal]

Yeah, likely maybe somebody who had a job that didn't end until this weekend. Hue Jackson is now free to consider a promotion from QB coach in Baltimore to OC in Cincinnati. I have been thinking all along that this is what Marvin wants to do. We'll see if Hue wants to come here and if Mike B will let Marvin replace Brat.

I am holding out hope that this is true also. We'll find out soon, I suppose. As loyal as Mike Brown is, though, I wonder if the strong friendship between Brat and Zimmer will affect his decision.

[LockeCole]

He said he was coming back but they haven't announced it like they have announced the other signings of coaches! HAVE FAITH!!!! least till they say so...

[Bonnie Bengal]

He said he was coming back but they haven't announced it like they have announced the other signings of coaches! HAVE FAITH!!!! least till they say so...

Why would they allow it on the front page of Bengals.com if it wasn't true?

[always a bengal]

I know his contract is up. Will he get a muti-year extension or a one-year deal. God I hope Mikey don't bring him back. It is Mike Brown's decision not Marvin's. Brat's playbook is predictiable and stale as a 2 week old doughnut. If he do come back, I will give up hope for the Bengals next season.

[austrianpine]

I'm sure that somebody has answered this in the "All about Brat" thread below, but according to an article on the front page, Brat said that he will be back.

[Ron Mexico]

He's actually still under contract, and there I haven't seen anything that would make me think that they are actually going to get rid of him.

[always a bengal]

He's actually still under contract, and there I haven't seen anything that would make me think that they are actually going to get rid of him.

My bad. I thought his contract was up. He'll be back next year.

[kpetrin]

If the Bengals bring in a new OC the whole offense will have to start fresh and learn a new playbook. This would ruin what the team did this year and how to improve upon certain aspects of the game.

As fans we complain about Brat simple basic play calling. That is all fine and good but who is to blame for the failed 3rd down drives? Who is to blame for the dropped passes? Who is to blame for the missed block? Who...Who do you blame, the coaches or the players?

I can't blame the coaches for dropped passes, a missed blocking assignment, a sack, an interception, penalties, etc... The players are the ones on the field trying to make the plays and if they fail it is the player who didn't make the play. NOT THE COACHES!!!!

I know if the Bengals would have won a game or two more and would now be playing the Colts the attitude of fans on this board maybe a little different.

The Bengals are not there; instead the Bengals lost and it wasn't the coach fault. It was the dropped passes or missed assignments by the players that resulted in the Bengals being home this past weekend.

As fans we need to support the team if they are winning and want to continue that into the next year. I sure believe they do with the team resigning Zimmer. I believe there will be some FA who will want to play for the Bengals in 2010. I also believe that in 2010 the success in 2009 is just the beginning.

[LockeCole]

Why would they allow it on the front page of Bengals.com if it wasn't true?

Ah i know! I'm just doing a little bit of wishful thinking cause i'd like to see someone new. Do you have to crush my dream? Really... Can't a guy hope. o_o Please...

[LockeCole]

I agree completely. It's extremely odd. It's like they are waiting on a yes/no from someone else before they confirm Bob's return. Strange indeed.

Well Bob has confirmed it. Maybe its a matter of how long the contract will be for. He knows he'll be back but perhaps its just up in the air as far as the specifics go. Still. imma keep wishing. I would just like to see change.

[tlotharw]

Well Bob has confirmed it. Maybe its a matter of how long the contract will be for. He knows he'll be back but perhaps its just up in the air as far as the specifics go. Still. imma keep wishing. I would just like to see change.

You are not alone, and you may be one of the following.

Season ticket holders.

Retaining Bratkowski, and his moribund, uncreative offense, with all of its pre-snap problems is not worth number with a three zeros in it.

[CincyJ]

I just read this article about Brat and although I know he is looked real good at times (05-07) the praise in this article is either really sarcastic or this site really loves Brat.

http://site.go-bengals.com/news/28/55/Time-to-Extend-Brat/

[SunsetBengal]

C'mon man!!! That article was from Sept. 20, we had just beaten the Packers.

[CincyJ]

That's what I was thinking, the article was on the current home page of go-bengals.com and I thought that site was pretty up to date. I just noticed that there forum is current but the page looks a little out dated.

[SunsetBengal]

That's what I was thinking, the article was on the current home page of go-bengals.com and I thought that site was pretty up to date. I just noticed that there forum is current but the page looks a little out dated.

That's why this is the OFFICIAL message board of the Cincinnati Bengals.:thumbsup:

[baul prown]

I just read this article about Brat and although I know he is looked real good at times (05-07) the praise in this article is either really sarcastic or this site really loves Brat.

http://site.go-bengals.com/news/28/55/Time-to-Extend-Brat/

didnt read it but how can anyone says run, run, pass, is an effective O?

[fredtoast]

I'm thinking sarcasm.

[LeTigre]

With Marvin's recent announcement that he anticipates no shakeups to the coaching staff and Hue Jackson taking the position of Offensive Coordinator for Oakland, I think its official now.

Bob Bratkowski is your Offensive Coordinator for the 2010 season.

As you all lay your heads down to sleep tonight, I only want you to think of one thing.

RUN, RUN, PASS, PUNT

RUN, RUN, PASS, PUNT

RUN, RUN, PASS, PUNT

RUN, RUN, PASS, PUNT

RUN, RUN, PASS, PUNT

[jj22]

You just now getting the memo?

[austrianpine]

You need to read the "all about Brat thread" and introduce this "new" peice of information there.;)

[RoarOfTheBengal]

With Marvin's recent announcement that he anticipates no shakeups to the coaching staff and Hue Jackson taking the position of Offensive Coordinator for Oakland, I think its official now.

Bob Bratkowski is your Offensive Coordinator for the 2010 season.

As you all lay your heads down to sleep tonight, I only want you to think of one thing.

RUN, RUN, PASS, PUNT

RUN, RUN, PASS, PUNT

RUN, RUN, PASS, PUNT

RUN, RUN, PASS, PUNT

RUN, RUN, PASS, PUNT

I'm not trying to defend Brat, but when Marvin lets the offense air it out, Brat is a perfectly capable OC. He's far from the best, but he's far from the worst. If they want to keep their "run first" offense, they definitely need to get rid of him. But if Marvin's going to allow them to air it out more, then Brat can stay one more year.

[eakephas]

It really doesn't bother me anymore. We've known this for quite some time.

[eliminate08]

It really doesn't bother me anymore. We've known this for quite some time.

But it still blowz.Mellow

[Jumbro]

Is he STILL here?:angry::mad:

[ILikeFootball]

With Marvin's recent announcement that he anticipates no shakeups to the coaching staff and Hue Jackson taking the position of Offensive Coordinator for Oakland, I think its official now.

Bob Bratkowski is your Offensive Coordinator for the 2010 season.

As you all lay your heads down to sleep tonight, I only want you to think of one thing.

RUN, RUN, PASS, PUNT

RUN, RUN, PASS, PUNT

RUN, RUN, PASS, PUNT

RUN, RUN, PASS, PUNT

RUN, RUN, PASS, PUNT



i am not a fan of Bob. I think he is hurting the team with his inability to adjust his in game play calling and a list of many other valid complaints. But this Run Run Pass Punt argument is just not true!


So stop useing it!

[Joe from Florence]

If he were he would of been let go already in my opinion.

This means one thing....this team will take an additional 2-3 years until they can once again compete.

With Brat here next year nothing on offense will change and we are stuck with a bad offense.
It amazes me that a front office we have always talks about wanting to win but does nothing to accomplish that. Always puts us several years behind due to the fact when they finally do wake up and make the necessary changes it will take a couple years to adjust to a new system for the players etc.
makes it very hard to keep faith in the direction this team is supposed to be taking.

[M.W.]

This is just life as a Bengals fan and for the most part very true. I have seen a tiny bit of improvement over the last year that makes me think perhaps things will get better. Even with Brat I do think the offense can be much better. He may have been a problem but he certainly wasn't the only problem.
I think the problem breaks down something like this:

40% - Marvin Lewis - Can the head coach really get a free pass?
20% - Brat - IF players would have played well (catching, throwing...) it would have been much better.
10% - Mike B. - same as Marvin but I think he did attempt to field a better team.
30% - the players - catching, throwing, blocking, penalties.... It goes on and on and is why I think Marvin is 40% of the problem.

[sixxfan26]

I don't know...maybe they just haven't found the right guy for the job yet?? I keep my hopes up because I haven't heard them announce that Brat WILL be back for sure, either. Know what I mean?

[fredtoast]

This means one thing....this team will take an additional 2-3 years until they can once again compete.


We competed this year. So why won't we next year?

[WhoDeyGFX]

I wouldn't say they do NOTHING to accomplish trying to win, just not everything. Finding a new OC is a big step. Bratkowski must clean MB's pool or something.

[DennyG2]

If he were he would of been let go already in my opinion.

This means one thing....this team will take an additional 2-3 years until they can once again compete.

With Brat here next year nothing on offense will change and we are stuck with a bad offense.
It amazes me that a front office we have always talks about wanting to win but does nothing to accomplish that. Always puts us several years behind due to the fact when they finally do wake up and make the necessary changes it will take a couple years to adjust to a new system for the players etc.
makes it very hard to keep faith in the direction this team is supposed to be taking.
They did win Joe, 10-6 and AFC North Champs is considered winning by I would say 100% of people, I would say it was accomplished...

[bodeezy]

They did win Joe, 10-6 and AFC North Champs is considered winning by I would say 100% of people, I would say it was accomplished...

I completely agree with you denny. But do you think that maybe it was inspite of Brat? When I watch a lot of teams they take what the defense gives them. I guess i kind of felt like the bengals pushed the run effort more then they should of sometimes. I love running the ball just as much as the next guy. Do you agree that sometimes it was forced a little to much?
Did that have any impact on the passing game?

[DennyG2]

I completely agree with you denny. But do you think that maybe it was inspite of Brat? When I watch a lot of teams they take what the defense gives them. I guess i kind of felt like the bengals pushed the run effort more then they should of sometimes. I love running the ball just as much as the next guy. Do you agree that sometimes it was forced a little to much?
Did that have any impact on the passing game?
Yes, I do think a lot of it was inspite of Brat. With that said I also feel Marvin has a lot to do with the offense as well. They did what they had to do with a weak WR corp, and a average at best pass protecting O-line, they just need to get better line play, a good TE and a WR to complement Ocho to take things to the next level.

[Joe from Florence]

They did win Joe, 10-6 and AFC North Champs is considered winning by I would say 100% of people, I would say it was accomplished...
they didn't win anything Denny.

i think we are watching 2 other teams in the super bowl this sunday, i may be mistaken, but i'm pretty sure the Colts and Saints are playing.

now if mediocrity is what you hope for, then you should be pretty happy with this season...i for one am not. a 1 and out in the playoffs and only 2 winning seasons in 2 decades isn't much to get excited about. but i know, many fans on here love mediocrity and for them then i say good job.

[Joe from Florence]

We competed this year. So why won't we next year?
we competed this year because of a cake walk schedule, and then we barely won many of the games we won.

i predict an 8-8 season next year.

we didn't compete because of our offense fred, we competed because of our defense.

[fredtoast]

we competed this year because of a cake walk schedule, and then we barely won many of the games we won.


1. We led the league in wins against teams with winning records (5).

2. When does "barely won" make a difference? We "barely lost" three other games also.

[DennyG2]

they didn't win anything Denny.

i think we are watching 2 other teams in the super bowl this sunday, i may be mistaken, but i'm pretty sure the Colts and Saints are playing.

now if mediocrity is what you hope for, then you should be pretty happy with this season...i for one am not. a 1 and out in the playoffs and only 2 winning seasons in 2 decades isn't much to get excited about. but i know, many fans on here love mediocrity and for them then i say good job.
If a Super Bowl or bust is what makes a winning season for you, then you have picked the wrong team Joe.

For me this year it is simple. As a season ticket holder, I saw my Bengals go 6-2 at home (regular season), saw them win on the road in Cleveland, saw them go 6-0 in the AFC North, saw them get a home playoff game and have hats and shirts that say 2009 AFC North Champions! coming off of a 4-11-1 horrible season in 08' not too shabby if you ask me. Your schedule mumbo jumbo is a non excuse, tell that to the Steelers and Ravens, like Fred said, they led the league with the most wins among winning teams. Do I want a championship? absolutely. Is a championship solely what it takes to determine a good winning season? No. I don't care what you may say Joe, but if I were to ask you before the season started that the Bengals would go on to accomplish what they did, you would have taken that and ran to the bank.

Moving forward, I like the core of this team and what they return to have yet another winning season in 10' and possibly beyond that. They return a great defense that will only get better, a top 6 rushing attack and a solid QB. I think they will have another good draft and pick up a few good missing pieces in FA as well. I am very positive and excited about the team and it's possibilities next year. I want a championship every year as well, but also realize there are steps that can be taken from year to year which can get a team closer to the ultimate goal, and I feel the Bengals are doing that. I hope for your sake going into next season Joe, you as well can find some positives to remain a Bengals fan, if you cannot, I guess I just don't see the point of being one and putting yourself through it again and again and again.

Who-Dey!!:tiger:

[twizbuck]

I'm with Joe on this one. It's nice we had a winning record, won the AFC North, and made the playoffs, but we just looked really poor those last couple games, and shouldn't it be the goal of everyone in the league to win the Super Bowl? I want to see Cincy hold up that Lombardi trophy, not be satisfied with just winning the division. Also, the history doesn't help anything, either.

Denny, I don't like how you went down the path of "pick a new team". Yeah, you didn't say it like that, but it's the same area. Don't we call those people that only root for teams who win titles "bandwagoners"? There's nothing wrong with being upset about not playing for the title, Bengals fan or not.

I'm happy with the overall picture, but to go with the topic of the thread, this is one area where the Bengals haven't tried to fix things, and it really doesn't look good to the fans. You brought in one good coordinator, try to find another.

[DennyG2]

I'm with Joe on this one. It's nice we had a winning record, won the AFC North, and made the playoffs, but we just looked really poor those last couple games, and shouldn't it be the goal of everyone in the league to win the Super Bowl? I want to see Cincy hold up that Lombardi trophy, not be satisfied with just winning the division. Also, the history doesn't help anything, either.

Denny, I don't like how you went down the path of "pick a new team". Yeah, you didn't say it like that, but it's the same area. Don't we call those people that only root for teams who win titles "bandwagoners"? There's nothing wrong with being upset about not playing for the title, Bengals fan or not.

I'm happy with the overall picture, but to go with the topic of the thread, this is one area where the Bengals haven't tried to fix things, and it really doesn't look good to the fans. You brought in one good coordinator, try to find another.
You are right I didn't say it so leave it at that and no buts. I know Joe is a die hard Bengals I was making a point that not everything is always doom and gloom and there are plenty of positives to be found. I wish like everyone Brat was gone but he isn't, so it is ok to look at the good as well you know. This team has a bright future, I am excited about that, those who aren't, never will be.

[1whodeybrew]

How many head coaches keep a job after 7 seasons of no playoff wins ?

Some people make it sound so great but where is a playoff win ? The Ravens inside our division had more success winning a playoff game. Don't the Ravens pick after us in the draft because they had a better season ?

Are we so great because we won our division ? This team played terrible in the 2nd half of the season. A team can only go so far on brute force alone without a playbook. Players wear down or get beat down as they did toward the end of the year. So the direction I see this team going is how they finished the year and that's the worry. I expect much worse next season if Bratkowski has to keep running Marvin's offense along with the schedule. If Bratkowski can get back into the offense he knows best while Zimmer is building his defense then our chances would be better but it's up to Marvin if he can just let his coordinators do their job.

[34inXXIII]

I'm with Joe on this one. It's nice we had a winning record, won the AFC North, and made the playoffs, but we just looked really poor those last couple games, and shouldn't it be the goal of everyone in the league to win the Super Bowl? I want to see Cincy hold up that Lombardi trophy, not be satisfied with just winning the division. Also, the history doesn't help anything, either.

Denny, I don't like how you went down the path of "pick a new team". Yeah, you didn't say it like that, but it's the same area. Don't we call those people that only root for teams who win titles "bandwagoners"? There's nothing wrong with being upset about not playing for the title, Bengals fan or not.

I'm happy with the overall picture, but to go with the topic of the thread, this is one area where the Bengals haven't tried to fix things, and it really doesn't look good to the fans. You brought in one good coordinator, try to find another.
Well, I don't exactly like how you went down the path of assuming any Bengals fan who appreciates and is happy with the 2009 season is satisfied. There's a lot of people on this forum who ***** and complain to no end and, in the process, criticize those who may very well take a more positive approach by broadly painting them with the label of being satisfied or content. That's just as shortsighted as the perspective that someone critical of the team isn't a "true fan".

Yes, there's nothing wrong with being upset about not playing for a title, but there's nothing wrong with getting some enjoyment and drawing some hope from a season that falls short either. By no means does that imply that anyone is necessarily satisfied or content with a division title and no postseason wins.

[twizbuck]

Well, I don't exactly like how you went down the path of assuming any Bengals fan who appreciates and is happy with the 2009 season is satisfied. There's a lot of people on this forum who ***** and complain to no end and, in the process, criticize those who may very well take a more positive approach by broadly painting them with the label of being satisfied or content. That's just as shortsighted as the perspective that someone critical of the team isn't a "true fan".

Yes, there's nothing wrong with being upset about not playing for a title, but there's nothing wrong with getting some enjoyment and drawing some hope from a season that falls short either. By no means does that imply that anyone is necessarily satisfied or content with a division title and no postseason wins.

I'm going to agree to disagree on this one. No worth in arguing with moderators.

[viper684]

Yes, I do think a lot of it was inspite of Brat. With that said I also feel Marvin has a lot to do with the offense as well. They did what they had to do with a weak WR corp, and a average at best pass protecting O-line, they just need to get better line play, a good TE and a WR to complement Ocho to take things to the next level.

Jermaine Gresham/Mardy Gilyard:wub:

[Millz]

The Bears, whose offense was slightly better than ours, but barely though, just hired Mike Martz, the ole mad scientist, as their new offensive coordinator. <_< Of course, we have still seen no changes with our o.c. :angry:

[Bengals.pro]

Well I just heard Mike Martz is OC of the Bears. Oh who cares we got the best OC in Bob Bratkowski. I am surprised that someone hasn't stolen this master mind from us. We are so lucky to have him :eek:

[scootergsxr03]

http://cgi.ebay.com/1988-CINCINNATI-BENGALS-OFFENSIVE-PLAYBOOK-AND-DVD_W0QQitemZ280463320159QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item414ceaa45f

[eakephas]

Isn't using a 20 year old playbook part of the problem?

[scootergsxr03]

Just a bit of a joke to kill the time while working and watching a blizzard

Heck, at least that playbook wouldn't have "Must use a shovel pass on 3rd and more than 5"

[Shady]

Seller: fbcoach38614 = Brat

Things are tough all over.

or the team motto for 2010: "Taking Predictability to New Levels"

[bfine32]

Mikey is going all out to bring in some bucks to sign FAs

[Shady]

Mikey is going all out to bring in some bucks to sign FAs

That would be my guess, too. We are so CLOSE to being Super Bowl contenders! QBs like Carson don't come around that often, and if we're winning when he retires, who knows when we'll get another one like him.

DO IT N-O-W!

[DontThrowAtLeon29]

hahhahahahhahahhahahah

[Cincinnati09]

So if i buy will yall find me brats address :ninja::tiger:

[Cincinnati09]

That would be my guess, too. We are so CLOSE to being Super Bowl contenders! QBs like Carson don't come around that often, and if we're winning when he retires, who knows when we'll get another one like him.

DO IT N-O-W!

i think i might rep u for such an intelligent post...carson is an elite qb when given PROPER support..