Why Cincinnati Should NOT Draft a Quarterback

[Fan_in_Kettering]

The Bengals need to figure out the type offensive system they wish to run, find players through free agency and the draft to fit that system, and things will take care of themselves. Carson Palmer is having a bad season, that's true, but it's the offensive line which needs fixed first. Get a solid line, coach it up well, and people will see how much fun Bengals football can be.

The strategy of relying on one player does not work. Since 1990, teams have been built around the likes of Akili Smith, David Klingler, Jeff Blake, and a bunch of other can't-miss quarterbacks and this scheme resulted in disappointment every time. Let's not try this mistaken idea again in 2011. Cam Newton is not the answer nor is Andrew Luck. The real key to future success in Cincinnati, at least on offense, is to get the best offensive line possible. When the Bengals have had winning seasons it is due to great offensive line play and 2005 and 2009 were perfect examples of this. Back in 1988 Cincinnati had the best offensive line in the NFL and the line from 1981 was darn close.

If Cincinnati thinks "offensive line first" then it would allow the skill players to do their thing with a clear mind because the protection would be there, the proper blocks would take place, and holes would miraculously open. If that happens then it does not matter who the quarterback is. I hate Bill Belichick's cheatin' guts but when Tom Brady went down a couple years ago, Matt Cassel just "plugged into" their system and ran the offense perfectly.

Closer to home, look at the stinkin' Steelers. Ben Roethlisberger was suspended for four games yet the Bumblebees went 3-1 behind Charlie Batch. Why? Their offensive line is terrific and the "system" runs no matter who is quarterback.

Most of the NFL teams work this way but, no, not Cincinnati. The same goes for the defense ("Let's try Odell Thurman. No, let's try Ahmad Brooks. Hey, Anthony Schlegel might work! Okay, maybe Dhani Jones.") where middle linebacker after middle linebacker fails and the big problem -- a defensive line that leaks like an overfilled diaper and hits with less aggression than a TSA agent -- is blissfully ignored.

So, here's my strategy for success:

1. Get an offensive system.
2. Get a defensive system.
3. Acquire players who fit those systems.
4. Win.

[CincIndy]

I agree, but unless someone greatly outperforms at the combine or the bowl games, then there is no top 5 OL in this years draft. And, if we can look at history as any indication, the Bengals will not trade down. Considering we will either have the first or second pick, a QB may be our best option.

[Hammerstripes]

I think the real choice in this draft is going to come down to:

Nick Fairley
DaQuan Bowers
AJ Green (in the event that both TO and Ocho leave)

I don't see Mike Brown drafting a QB in the top 5. We will more than like NOT be drafting #1 overall. Carolina may trade the pick to another top 10 team like the Redskins or Vikings, but either way, Luck goes #1, IF he comes out.

[renorvis]

I'll take Who is Nick Fairley?for 100 Alex :rock on:

[finso]

The three greatest needs on this team are;
1.QB. Obviously Palmer is done.
2.Safety. This team has a group of washed up has beens and URFA's that wouldn't be on an NFL roster if not for the Bengals.
3.LB. This team has a LB who is afraid of contact(Rivers) A LB who is constently running around out of control(Rey) and a LB who is to slow to cover a tackle eligible on a passing route(Dhani). The linebackers kill this defense.
Well there is no Safety or LB worthy, but there is a stud QB who is considered one of the greratest prospects to come out by some.
Seems like a no brainer to me.
There is no reason to not draft Luck, if available.

[crazyjdawg]

I'll take Who is Nick Fairley?for 100 Alex :rock on:
That would be the answer.
You would say "I'll take NFL prospects for 100 Alex"
Then he would say "This player out of Auburn is the player who the Bengals should draft."
Then some guy will ring in "Who is Cam Newton?"
Then Alex will go over and kick him in the nuts.
Then you ring in and say "Who is Nick Fairley?"
Then Alex will give you a high five :)

[renorvis]

That would be the answer.
You would say "I'll take NFL prospects for 100 Alex"
Then he would say "This player out of Auburn is the player who the Bengals should draft."
Then some guy will ring in "Who is Cam Newton?"
Then Alex will go over and kick him in the nuts.
Then you ring in and say "Who is Nick Fairley?"
Then Alex will give you a high five :)

Thanks I'm a little rusty on my Jeopardy references ;) I would still want Fairley in stripes come April.

[Bengal Dude]

That would be the answer.
You would say "I'll take NFL prospects for 100 Alex"
Then he would say "This player out of Auburn is the player who the Bengals should draft."
Then some guy will ring in "Who is Cam Newton?"
Then Alex will go over and kick him in the nuts.
Then you ring in and say "Who is Nick Fairley?"
Then Alex will give you a high five :)

http://ridingabuttertub.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/internet-high-five.jpg

[Archer]

That would be the answer.
You would say "I'll take NFL prospects for 100 Alex"
Then he would say "This player out of Auburn is the player who the Bengals should draft."
Then some guy will ring in "Who is Cam Newton?"
Then Alex will go over and kick him in the nuts.
Then you ring in and say "Who is Nick Fairley?"
Then Alex will give you a high five :)

:lol:

[WhoDeyLeisure]

Going to back these words up if/when Luck becomes the next great NFL QB?

He might be the next Peyton Manning but we should pass on him because Carson might have a little left in the tank? Or the line isn't good enough?

Cmon people. He is the best player available (if available), and the teams BIGGEST need is QB. I was the biggest Carson supporter but give it up, hes done.

[crazyjdawg]

Going to back these words up if/when Luck becomes the next great NFL QB?

He might be the next Peyton Manning but we should pass on him because Carson might have a little left in the tank? Or the line isn't good enough?

Cmon people. He is the best player available (if available), and the teams BIGGEST need is QB. I was the biggest Carson supporter but give it up, hes done.

There was an article on espn saying that Luck is heavily leaning towards returning to Stanford.

My guess is that he does and we won't even have to worry about maybe getting him.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/notebook?page=draftbuzz1217
Flipping through my notes, I couldn't help but notice all the scribble about Stanford QB Andrew Luck's impending draft decision.

Andrew Luck holds the key to the top of the 2011 NFL draft.
Luck can head to the NFL draft and possibly become the No. 1 overall pick or can return to school, continue honing his game and earn a degree, and I've been told seven times in the past month by people claiming to have insight into the situation that Luck is leaning heavily toward returning to Stanford.

No one truly knows what will happen, and there are many factors for Luck and his advisers to consider, but his desire to earn a diploma from Stanford is often cited as the biggest factor.

However, my job is to evaluate the player and the effect his decision could have on the teams at the top of the board and the overall quarterback class. Other analysts and reporters will get the scoop on Luck's decision-making process in the coming weeks, and in the meantime we can take a look at the potential fallout should Luck skip the 2011 draft.

Teams and players affected
There are two groups that will be most affected by Luck's decision. The first consists of the teams picking in the top five overall that need a franchise quarterback. If the draft were held today, the Carolina Panthers would be on the clock at No. 1 overall, and they would have to consider Luck if he's available despite having used a second-round pick on QB Jimmy Clausen this year.

Other teams in the mix for the top overall pick include Cincinnati, Buffalo and Arizona, all of which also would consider taking Luck. If he is not in play, though, things become somewhat murky for those teams seeking quarterback help.

That's because the second group affected by Luck's decision is made up of the three quarterbacks ranked behind him on our draft board, all of whom have first-round tools but face plenty of questions that could cause teams to pass on them.

However, the past 10 NFL drafts have seen at least one quarterback selected in the top 10, and the odds are high that some quarterback-starved team will pull the trigger on one of these highly debated prospects.

Washington's Jake Locker
On the plus side, Locker has prototypical size, a live arm and elite athleticism for the position. He flashes the ability to make difficult throws into tight windows and is a hard worker who comes with no baggage. Finally, he has experience in a pro-style system.

However, although Locker made considerable strides as a pocket passer in 2009, he regressed in 2010. He was pressing early in the season and lost confidence when things started going south. He is still not a natural pocket passer, and his accuracy and timing are streaky.

Auburn's Cam Newton
The pros are hard to ignore: rare physical tools, including a massive frame, exceptional athleticism for his size and the arm strength to make all necessary NFL throws; a smooth delivery; his flashing touch on the deep ball; the continuing improvement of his accuracy; and his proving to be a winner and outstanding competitor.

There are some big cons, though: Newton has no experience in a pro-style system, and his NFL learning curve will be very steep; he needs work reading defenses and going through progressions; and maturity and off-the-field baggage also need examining.

Arkansas' Ryan Mallett
Mallett has the strongest arm in the class and above-average athleticism for a prospect who's nearly 6-foot-7. He's tough and competitive and has experience in a pro-style system, as well. Still, his size means he struggles to make sudden movements to avoid pressure and has difficulty resetting his feet. Mallett also has had trouble handling complex reads and opponents' in-game adjustments, and there are some questions regarding his maturity and ability to lead.

Bottom line
No matter what Luck decides, all three of the quarterbacks above have something to prove to scouts.

Locker faces Nebraska in the Holiday Bowl and is looking for redemption after a 4-for-20 performance against the Cornhuskers back in September. Mallett is out to show he can handle the complex defensive game plan Ohio State is sure to throw his way in the Sugar Bowl. Newton needs to prove he can handle success, among other things, and lead his team to a victory in the BCS title game.

We know Newton's capable of blocking out negative distractions, but the five weeks leading up to the game with Oregon will be a whole different animal. From Vinny Testaverde (Miami) to Jason White (Oklahoma) to Troy Smith (Ohio State), there's a long list of Heisman Trophy winners who failed to strike the proper balance between banquet circuit and bowl preparation, and it will cost Newton millions of dollars if he becomes the next victim of complacency.

And although the buzz out of Missouri is that junior QB Blaine Gabbert will be back for another year, if he does throw his hat in the ring, don't be surprised if his potential and tools have Gabbert taken ahead of Locker, Mallett and Newton.

There is much intrigue surrounding what will happen between now and the mid-January deadline for underclassmen to declare for the draft, and nothing will garner more attention than Luck's decision and how the dominoes will fall once he makes his intentions clear.

[The Scales]

I've heard the Stanford Kid will announce sometime after his bowl game whether or not he's entering the upcoming draft.





STRIKE WHILST THY IRON IS HOT!!!!
(if applicable)

[WhoDeyLeisure]

There was an article on espn saying that Luck is heavily leaning towards returning to Stanford.

My guess is that he does and we won't even have to worry about maybe getting him.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/notebook?page=draftbuzz1217


Interesting. Well if he does return...I hope we don't have ANY chance of getting him next year. If you know what I mean....

Who do you guys think will go 1st if he doesn't declare? De'quan? AJ?

[whodeytj9]

I Agree we... no QB... we should draft AJ GREEN!!

[hacker]

The Bengals need to figure out the type offensive system they wish to run, find players through free agency and the draft to fit that system, and things will take care of themselves. Carson Palmer is having a bad season, that's true, but it's the offensive line which needs fixed first. Get a solid line, coach it up well, and people will see how much fun Bengals football can be.

The strategy of relying on one player does not work. Since 1990, teams have been built around the likes of Akili Smith, David Klingler, Jeff Blake, and a bunch of other can't-miss quarterbacks and this scheme resulted in disappointment every time. Let's not try this mistaken idea again in 2011. Cam Newton is not the answer nor is Andrew Luck. The real key to future success in Cincinnati, at least on offense, is to get the best offensive line possible. When the Bengals have had winning seasons it is due to great offensive line play and 2005 and 2009 were perfect examples of this. Back in 1988 Cincinnati had the best offensive line in the NFL and the line from 1981 was darn close.

If Cincinnati thinks "offensive line first" then it would allow the skill players to do their thing with a clear mind because the protection would be there, the proper blocks would take place, and holes would miraculously open. If that happens then it does not matter who the quarterback is. I hate Bill Belichick's cheatin' guts but when Tom Brady went down a couple years ago, Matt Cassel just "plugged into" their system and ran the offense perfectly.

Closer to home, look at the stinkin' Steelers. Ben Roethlisberger was suspended for four games yet the Bumblebees went 3-1 behind Charlie Batch. Why? Their offensive line is terrific and the "system" runs no matter who is quarterback.

Most of the NFL teams work this way but, no, not Cincinnati. The same goes for the defense ("Let's try Odell Thurman. No, let's try Ahmad Brooks. Hey, Anthony Schelegel might work! Okay, maybe Dhani Jones.") where middle linebacker after middle linebacker fails and the big problem -- a defensive line that leaks like an overfilled diaper and hits with less aggression than a TSA agent -- is blissfully ignored.

So, here's my strategy for success:

1. Get an offensive system.
2. Get a defensive system.
3. Acquire players who fit those systems.
4. Win.

Steelers O-line stinks, their Defense wins games. We can draft Luck and still replace 2 Guards with this draft if we so choose and that would be immediate help to this offense. Just think of Marcus Cannon and Pouncey possibly. This franchise has to get ANY system. I think you could ask the coaches what kind of team are the Bengals and they could not give you a solid answer.

[crazyjdawg]

I Agree we... no QB... we should draft AJ GREEN!!

I honestly don't think that will help this offense at all.

[cinc4ever1]

I think Palmer is just plain out scared to take a hit anymore.And im not sure if you can coach that feeling backup.I have seen many QB's go through this,and not many recover.

[whodeytj9]

I honestly don't think that will help this offense at all.


Not today, but what is it going to matter if dan lefever is throwing to Andre Caldwell and Jordan Shipley as his number one option?

Think number 1 reciever for a long time

[elmacho2004]

I swear, some of you guys drive me crazy. Why cant some of you stay on topic with an interesting thread topic and turn it into a "who you would draft" thread (I'm looking at you Hammerstripes)?

Now on the topic, I agree that the schemes on offense and defense needs to be first addressed. But what if the scheme that is decided on shows that Carson is not the right fit? Then what? The reason I ask this is that so many have their own agenda or opinion on to keep/get rid of Carson. I personally think that we need to find an eventual replacement for Carson and hope and pray that he figures "it out" and regains his old form, but if he more likely continues to deteriorate then we will not get caught with our pants down like Arizona.

The whole figure out the scheme first and forget drafting a QB argument is silly because the team will (I hope) already have that figured out. And if the future coach doesn't see Carson as the future, then the team will start looking for his replacement. I'm not saying to cut Palmer or trade him, I'm just saying to be prepared if he cant get better.

[Gdale Bengal]

Heard about it today from Todd Mcshay on ESPN 1530 that 8/10 contacts he has have reported Luck staying for his senior year.

That'll rattle everyone's list. That's why I haven't even made any mock drafts yet. I don't know how many underclassmen are declaring themselves eligible.

Bengals will still get a good defensive lineman whether Luck does or doesn't declare. I'm pretty confidant Carolina won't draft Dline in the 1st, considering they blew 43849823949384304849 picks on Dline last year.

[Gdale Bengal]

Not today, but what is it going to matter if dan lefever is throwing to Andre Caldwell and Jordan Shipley as his number one option?

Think number 1 reciever for a long time

It's rare that a team that has some holes on both lines would choose to draft a receiver.

There's actually some really good receivers in the mid rounds who can become good targets for Carson or whoever is our QB in the future.

I don't believe the Bengals should select a receiver with the 2nd or 3rd pick overall. Not with the offensive line problems and the defensive line's problem of getting to the QB still.

[SunsetBengal]

It's rare that a team that has some holes on both lines would choose to draft a receiver.

I don't believe the Bengals should select a receiver with the 2nd or 3rd pick overall. .

Only the Lions, only the Lions.

[Hammerstripes]

I swear, some of you guys drive me crazy. Why cant some of you stay on topic with an interesting thread topic and turn it into a "who you would draft" thread (I'm looking at you Hammerstripes)?Now on the topic, I agree that the schemes on offense and defense needs to be first addressed. But what if the scheme that is decided on shows that Carson is not the right fit? Then what? The reason I ask this is that so many have their own agenda or opinion on to keep/get rid of Carson. I personally think that we need to find an eventual replacement for Carson and hope and pray that he figures "it out" and regains his old form, but if he more likely continues to deteriorate then we will not get caught with our pants down like Arizona.

The whole figure out the scheme first and forget drafting a QB argument is silly because the team will (I hope) already have that figured out. And if the future coach doesn't see Carson as the future, then the team will start looking for his replacement. I'm not saying to cut Palmer or trade him, I'm just saying to be prepared if he cant get better.

Hey, don't look at me. I just agreed with the original post and made a comment about who would be available when we draft. Sorry if you viewed that as being off topic.

[Archer]

Heard about it today from Todd Mcshay on ESPN 1530 that 8/10 contacts he has have reported Luck staying for his senior year.

That'll rattle everyone's list. That's why I haven't even made any mock drafts yet. I don't know how many underclassmen are declaring themselves eligible.

Bengals will still get a good defensive lineman whether Luck does or doesn't declare. I'm pretty confidant Carolina won't draft Dline in the 1st, considering they blew 43849823949384304849 picks on Dline last year.

Right now he is a Redshirt Sophomore.

There is a pretty good chance he doesn't declare for multiple reasons:

1. His family is rich so money isn't an issue
2. He said getting his degree was really important to him
3. The NFL could have a shortened season due to a possible/likely holdout
4. If he plays really bad his junior year, he could still come back for his senior year and try to regain his stock

He would be missing out on a lot of money, as this will likely be the last draft without a rookie pay scale in place.

[elmacho2004]

Hey, don't look at me. I just agreed with the original post and made a comment about who would be available when we draft. Sorry if you viewed that as being off topic.

It's cool but you do that a lot in other threads too, maybe you don't notice so I apologies if I came off a little strong.

[elmacho2004]

Right now he is a Redshirt Sophomore.

There is a pretty good chance he doesn't declare for multiple reasons:

1. His family is rich so money isn't an issue
2. He said getting his degree was really important to him
3. The NFL could have a shortened season due to a possible/likely holdout
4. If he plays really bad his junior year, he could still come back for his senior year and try to regain his stock

He would be missing out on a lot of money, as this will likely be the last draft without a rookie pay scale in place.

Maybe we should pull a Belichek and trade Carson and/or Chad and/or draft picks with crappy teams for next year draft picks and be proactive and go get the players we need instead of hoping and praying that the players fall to us ala NY Jets and Revis. We all know that Revis would have been a Bengal instead of Hall had NY not have jumped in-front of us.

[brettb442001]

The three greatest needs on this team are;
1.QB. Obviously Palmer is done.
2.Safety. This team has a group of washed up has beens and URFA's that wouldn't be on an NFL roster if not for the Bengals.
3.LB. This team has a LB who is afraid of contact(Rivers) A LB who is constently running around out of control(Rey) and a LB who is to slow to cover a tackle eligible on a passing route(Dhani). The linebackers kill this defense.
Well there is no Safety or LB worthy, but there is a stud QB who is considered one of the greratest prospects to come out by some.
Seems like a no brainer to me.
There is no reason to not draft Luck, if available.
finso you forgot to mention the biggest need for the team which is the offensive line. Don't get me wrong, Carson is not the quaterback he use to be but not many would when as your dropping back you see two or three guys running free at you. There really isn't an offensive lineman worth drafting in the top 3 so I would draft a defensive lineman, either Bowers or Fairley. Key to winning games is winning in the trenches and our LBs and DBs won't have to cover as long if we have a good D line.

[WHO_DEY_51]

The Bengals need to figure out the type offensive system they wish to run, find players through free agency and the draft to fit that system, and things will take care of themselves. Carson Palmer is having a bad season, that's true, but it's the offensive line which needs fixed first. Get a solid line, coach it up well, and people will see how much fun Bengals football can be.

The strategy of relying on one player does not work. Since 1990, teams have been built around the likes of Akili Smith, David Klingler, Jeff Blake, and a bunch of other can't-miss quarterbacks and this scheme resulted in disappointment every time. Let's not try this mistaken idea again in 2011. Cam Newton is not the answer nor is Andrew Luck. The real key to future success in Cincinnati, at least on offense, is to get the best offensive line possible. When the Bengals have had winning seasons it is due to great offensive line play and 2005 and 2009 were perfect examples of this. Back in 1988 Cincinnati had the best offensive line in the NFL and the line from 1981 was darn close.

If Cincinnati thinks "offensive line first" then it would allow the skill players to do their thing with a clear mind because the protection would be there, the proper blocks would take place, and holes would miraculously open. If that happens then it does not matter who the quarterback is. I hate Bill Belichick's cheatin' guts but when Tom Brady went down a couple years ago, Matt Cassel just "plugged into" their system and ran the offense perfectly.

Closer to home, look at the stinkin' Steelers. Ben Roethlisberger was suspended for four games yet the Bumblebees went 3-1 behind Charlie Batch. Why? Their offensive line is terrific and the "system" runs no matter who is quarterback.

Most of the NFL teams work this way but, no, not Cincinnati. The same goes for the defense ("Let's try Odell Thurman. No, let's try Ahmad Brooks. Hey, Anthony Schelegel might work! Okay, maybe Dhani Jones.") where middle linebacker after middle linebacker fails and the big problem -- a defensive line that leaks like an overfilled diaper and hits with less aggression than a TSA agent -- is blissfully ignored.

So, here's my strategy for success:

1. Get an offensive system.
2. Get a defensive system.
3. Acquire players who fit those systems.
4. Win.

I could not say it any better.

Better oline, more time for QB.
Better dline, less time for QB.

The teams that won the Super Bowls this decade had amazing lines. That goes back to the beginning of football. Go throught he 90's, Cowboys had an amazing oline and dline, Packers, Bronocos, 49ers.

[WHO_DEY_51]

Not today, but what is it going to matter if dan lefever is throwing to Andre Caldwell and Jordan Shipley as his number one option?

Think number 1 reciever for a long time

What has being the number 1 reciever done for Randy Moss and his teams. Nothing.

[Hammerstripes]

What has being the number 1 reciever done for Randy Moss and his teams. Nothing.

I guess if a team doesn't win the Super Bowl then they've accomplished nothing?

1998 Vikings 15-1
2008 Patriots 16-0

I can't fault Moss for losing the NFC title game or the Super Bowl. But to say that a WR like Moss in his prime doesn't do anything for his teams is a stretch.