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  #1  
Old 12-24-2008, 04:32 PM
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Default I hate the kneel down

I would like to see our offense change it's mentality on offense. Even when someone jumps offsides we take the passive route and kneel down. The Titans took a chance to burn the Steelers for a touchodwn and was successful where we get just 5 yards. How many teams do you see do this besides us? I haven't seen any. I think as Chris Collinsworth calls it, "Chicken Offense"
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Old 12-24-2008, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Originally Posted by belfryky View Post
I would like to see our offense change it's mentality on offense. Even when someone jumps offsides we take the passive route and kneel down. The Titans took a chance to burn the Steelers for a touchodwn and was successful where we get just 5 yards. How many teams do you see do this besides us? I haven't seen any. I think as Chris Collinsworth calls it, "Chicken Offense"
I honestly dont think its that big of a deal. :mellow:
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Old 12-24-2008, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

its a free play we could try something deep and if we get intercepted then i won't matter
talking 5 yards is boring and sometimes they don't give it
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Old 12-25-2008, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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its a free play we could try something deep and if we get intercepted then i won't matter
talking 5 yards is boring and sometimes they don't give it
Agreed. Toss it downfield. Whats the worst that can happen? A bengals score?
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Old 12-25-2008, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Agreed. Toss it downfield. Whats the worst that can happen? A bengals score?
Please see 34's comments.
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Old 12-25-2008, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Originally Posted by NC Bengal Mike View Post
Please see 34's comments.
I read them, and those are his opinions. If i agree withanyone its HearUsRoar.
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Old 12-24-2008, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Originally Posted by belfryky View Post
I would like to see our offense change it's mentality on offense. Even when someone jumps offsides we take the passive route and kneel down. The Titans took a chance to burn the Steelers for a touchodwn and was successful where we get just 5 yards. How many teams do you see do this besides us? I haven't seen any. I think as Chris Collinsworth calls it, "Chicken Offense"
i agree it is stupid to kneel down just fire the ball 20+ yards down the field and see what happens
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Old 12-24-2008, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

Not that I'd like to agree w/CollinsSmurf about anything, but I would like us to be more aggressive when someone jumps offsides. It's a free shot for pete's sake. Peyton wouldn't take a knee...
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Old 12-25-2008, 12:36 AM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Originally Posted by ishouldbegm View Post
i agree it is stupid to kneel down just fire the ball 20+ yards down the field and see what happens
I saw a team try to quick snap and run a play when the defense jumped offsides last weekend.

The defense jumped off side, the center snapped it, and the receivers took off, the quarterback dropped back. The problem was that the rest of the offensive line didn't realize the ball had been hiked, but the defensive line, who were looking at the ball did know it. The defense rushed past an immobile offensive line and nearly killed the quarterback.

Snap the ball, kneel down, take the five yards.
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Old 12-26-2008, 02:18 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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I saw a team try to quick snap and run a play when the defense jumped offsides last weekend.

The defense jumped off side, the center snapped it, and the receivers took off, the quarterback dropped back. The problem was that the rest of the offensive line didn't realize the ball had been hiked, but the defensive line, who were looking at the ball did know it. The defense rushed past an immobile offensive line and nearly killed the quarterback.

Snap the ball, kneel down, take the five yards.


Thank you...
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Old 12-26-2008, 02:37 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

I can tell you a thousand times to one your QB will get a chance to make a play out of it before he gets hit.

Kneel down is the dumbest thing I've ever seen and it's worse when the refs actually call the penalty on the offense for a false freaking start.

The refs should stop any uninvaded to the QB
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Old 12-24-2008, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

Seems we go through this every few weeks, so here's my response from a previous thread on the topic...

I'm tiring of the quick snap/kneel down trying to catch a defender offsides as well, but they'll be in no position to take the "free play" unless that happens at the time the snap was originally intended to take place.

If they try to quick snap and go deep just because they think they caught an opponent offsides, first of all the offensive linemen lose the advantage of being able to anticipate the snap and are reacting to the snap just like the defenders. That benefits the defense and puts the QB at risk. Secondly, if the called play was a run, it's asking an awful lot to expect 11 players (especially the linemen) to not only react to that quick snap but change their responsibilities on that play in a split second.

About the only way I see that they can go deep on such a "free play" is if they already have a pass play called and the defender jumped just prior to the intended snap of the ball. Then they would either have to have a receiver already running a deep route of have one designated as changing his route to go deep when he reads the likely offsides call.

Clearly the Bengals' quick snap/kneel down play is designed to occur well before the intended snap because no other player moves besides the center and QB.
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Old 12-24-2008, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Originally Posted by 34inXXIII View Post
Seems we go through this every few weeks, so here's my response from a previous thread on the topic...

I'm tiring of the quick snap/kneel down trying to catch a defender offsides as well, but they'll be in no position to take the "free play" unless that happens at the time the snap was originally intended to take place.

If they try to quick snap and go deep just because they think they caught an opponent offsides, first of all the offensive linemen lose the advantage of being able to anticipate the snap and are reacting to the snap just like the defenders. That benefits the defense and puts the QB at risk. Secondly, if the called play was a run, it's asking an awful lot to expect 11 players (especially the linemen) to not only react to that quick snap but change their responsibilities on that play in a split second.

About the only way I see that they can go deep on such a "free play" is if they already have a pass play called and the defender jumped just prior to the intended snap of the ball. Then they would either have to have a receiver already running a deep route of have one designated as changing his route to go deep when he reads the likely offsides call.

Clearly the Bengals' quick snap/kneel down play is designed to occur well before the intended snap because no other player moves besides the center and QB.
Okay then only use the free play when a pass play has been called. I'll take being aggressive 50% of the time over none of the time.

I don't care if the defense has an advantage to be honest, it's minimal at best and odds are they just commited a penalty, so whatever positive outcome went to the opponent, is negated by that penalty.

In the case where they actually weren't offsides and our QB just assumes they were...

Either 1.) you have a free play where odds are, I'd guess, about 50% that we'd complete a pass or cause the opponent to commit another penalty, e.g. pass interference, 40% that it would be incomplete and 10% interception or a sack.

Or 2.) you take a kneel down and giftwrap a 7 yard sack for our opponents.

I like those odds and I would be ecstatic to see the outcome, even if only 50% of the time.
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Old 12-24-2008, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

i like the kneel when carson and rich did it.for every 1 time he did it for nothing it worked 3-4 times so its 5extra yards2me.

fitz doesnt doit,and eric does it when he wants to(w/o fitz's knowledge...fumble)
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Old 12-24-2008, 07:28 PM
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i like the kneel when carson and rich did it.for every 1 time he did it for nothing it worked 3-4 times so its 5extra yards2me.

fitz doesnt doit,and eric does it when he wants to(w/o fitz's knowledge...fumble)


Yeah Eric seemingly does not know what is going on sometimes...a lot of the time, I meant.
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Old 12-24-2008, 07:48 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

I think most are missing the point on the kneel down... It only happens when the snap wasn't supposed to happen..

One example: Carson comes up, "hut hut".. nobody jumps, so then he reacts to the Defense by making pre-play adjustments, then snaps and the play ensues..

2nd example: Carson comes up, "hut hut"... someone on the defense jumps- they take a knee and we get 5 yards, instead of letting the defender get back to his spot, going through the adjustments and calling a hike...

Like was said above, you obviously take the free play if someone were to jump at the same exact time of the snap.. that DOES happen..
You don't take a free play when the Center and QB just snap the ball with no one else knowing and assume you can pull off some kind of play... the refs would most likely blow the call dead if the QB was dropping back with the ball and everyone else on the offense was trying to figure out whats going on...

Last edited by ralex; 12-24-2008 at 07:48 PM. Reason: ...
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Old 12-24-2008, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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I think most are missing the point on the kneel down... It only happens when the snap wasn't supposed to happen..

One example: Carson comes up, "hut hut".. nobody jumps, so then he reacts to the Defense by making pre-play adjustments, then snaps and the play ensues..

2nd example: Carson comes up, "hut hut"... someone on the defense jumps- they take a knee and we get 5 yards, instead of letting the defender get back to his spot, going through the adjustments and calling a hike...

Like was said above, you obviously take the free play if someone were to jump at the same exact time of the snap.. that DOES happen..
You don't take a free play when the Center and QB just snap the ball with no one else knowing and assume you can pull off some kind of play... the refs would most likely blow the call dead if the QB was dropping back with the ball and everyone else on the offense was trying to figure out whats going on...
I think you are missing the point then. Other teams go for the free play moreso than ZERO percent of the time. It's simply a microchosm of our franchise, it really is. It's timidity personified. It's more of "playing not to lose" than it is "playing to win".
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Old 12-25-2008, 12:22 AM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Originally Posted by 34inXXIII View Post
Seems we go through this every few weeks, so here's my response from a previous thread on the topic...

I'm tiring of the quick snap/kneel down trying to catch a defender offsides as well, but they'll be in no position to take the "free play" unless that happens at the time the snap was originally intended to take place.

If they try to quick snap and go deep just because they think they caught an opponent offsides, first of all the offensive linemen lose the advantage of being able to anticipate the snap and are reacting to the snap just like the defenders. That benefits the defense and puts the QB at risk. Secondly, if the called play was a run, it's asking an awful lot to expect 11 players (especially the linemen) to not only react to that quick snap but change their responsibilities on that play in a split second.

About the only way I see that they can go deep on such a "free play" is if they already have a pass play called and the defender jumped just prior to the intended snap of the ball. Then they would either have to have a receiver already running a deep route of have one designated as changing his route to go deep when he reads the likely offsides call.

Clearly the Bengals' quick snap/kneel down play is designed to occur well before the intended snap because no other player moves besides the center and QB.
34... that was beuatifully done...again.

Most people don't understand there may be a motion or line se not complete.

Props to you
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Old 12-25-2008, 12:46 AM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Originally Posted by 34inXXIII View Post
[color="darkorange"]Seems we go through this every few weeks, so here's my response from a previous thread on the topic...

\
If they try to quick snap and go deep just because they think they caught an opponent offsides, first of all the offensive linemen lose the advantage of being able to anticipate the snap and are reacting to the snap just like the defenders. That benefits the defense and puts the QB at risk. Secondly, if the called play was a run, it's asking an awful lot to expect 11 players (especially the linemen) to not only react to that quick snap but change their responsibilities on that play in a split second.
COLOR]
More than likely, if the d is offsides, it is 1 player, so only 1 offensive lineman has the possibility of being beat. Also, no ones responsibilty should be changed due to it being offsides. You run the play thats been called.
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Old 12-25-2008, 12:50 AM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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More than likely, if the d is offsides, it is 1 player, so only 1 offensive lineman has the possibility of being beat. Also, no ones responsibilty should be changed due to it being offsides. You run the play thats been called.
We have enough trouble pass protecting as it is......You want to give someone a head start.....??

O.o

34 and NC are dead on.
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Old 12-25-2008, 01:01 AM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

dumbest thing ive ever seen in a football game. its a free play, nomatter what we get 5 yards, whether we fall on our butt or throw an interception. take advantage of it.
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Old 12-27-2008, 05:44 AM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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We have enough trouble pass protecting as it is......You want to give someone a head start.....??

O.o

34 and NC are dead on.

I think Hobson answered this question last year when someone asked via email. I personally HATE the kneel down, but the explanation for it suited me perfectly fine...I can't find it, but here it is in my words:

The Bengals (especially with Palmer) often call their play at the line of scrimmage. In the huddle, the QB calls two or more plays. He goes to the line of scrimmage and begins a cadence (often using a hard count), noting the defensive shifts, etc. If someone jumps offsides during the first cadence, the center snaps the ball and the QB takes a knee because NO PLAY HAS BEEN CALLED . If nobody jumps, the QB uses his knowledge of the defense and calls the play based on what they showed during the first cadence. If the defense jumps offsides after a play has been called, the play would continue.

I would guess that after our QB calls the play at the line of scrimmage, he doesn't utilize the hard count, which is why we only see players jumping offsides during the first cadence before a play is actually called.

And for whoever said that the receivers should just run down the field...you are wrong. If no play has been called, the O-Line is at a tremendous disadvantage. As was stated, the OTs listen to cadence, while the DEs watch the ball. The QB would be destroyed if they tried to take a free play with NOTHING CALLED.
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Old 12-27-2008, 10:10 AM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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I think Hobson answered this question last year when someone asked via email. I personally HATE the kneel down, but the explanation for it suited me perfectly fine...I can't find it, but here it is in my words:

The Bengals (especially with Palmer) often call their play at the line of scrimmage. In the huddle, the QB calls two or more plays. He goes to the line of scrimmage and begins a cadence (often using a hard count), noting the defensive shifts, etc. If someone jumps offsides during the first cadence, the center snaps the ball and the QB takes a knee because NO PLAY HAS BEEN CALLED . If nobody jumps, the QB uses his knowledge of the defense and calls the play based on what they showed during the first cadence. If the defense jumps offsides after a play has been called, the play would continue.

I would guess that after our QB calls the play at the line of scrimmage, he doesn't utilize the hard count, which is why we only see players jumping offsides during the first cadence before a play is actually called.

And for whoever said that the receivers should just run down the field...you are wrong. If no play has been called, the O-Line is at a tremendous disadvantage. As was stated, the OTs listen to cadence, while the DEs watch the ball. The QB would be destroyed if they tried to take a free play with NOTHING CALLED.
That's understandable, if it's true. Here's my response to that...take the "no play called" and simply turn it into "deep out routes" or "skinny post routes" or...you get the idea.
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Old 12-25-2008, 01:51 AM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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More than likely, if the d is offsides, it is 1 player, so only 1 offensive lineman has the possibility of being beat. Also, no ones responsibilty should be changed due to it being offsides. You run the play thats been called.
Actually, I would think that particular lineman that has the slight advantage because the defender that is offsides is usually trying to get back onside when the ball is snapped. It's the other linemen that are at the disadvantage because they are reacting to the ball instead of anticipating the snap.

Look, if the intended snap takes place when a defensive player is offsides, then I certainly agree that they try to take advantage of the free play IF they're already in a pass play. If the snap occurs well before the intended snap, they need to either quick snap & take the knee or let it go and proceed with the planned play and snap count. This appears to be how most - if not all - other teams handle it. There's a lot of times I see other games where players jump offsides and are allowed to get back onside well before the snap.
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Old 12-25-2008, 10:22 PM
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Default Re: I hate the kneel down

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Actually, I would think that particular lineman that has the slight advantage because the defender that is offsides is usually trying to get back onside when the ball is snapped. It's the other linemen that are at the disadvantage because they are reacting to the ball instead of anticipating the snap.

Look, if the intended snap takes place when a defensive player is offsides, then I certainly agree that they try to take advantage of the free play IF they're already in a pass play. If the snap occurs well before the intended snap, they need to either quick snap & take the knee or let it go and proceed with the planned play and snap count. This appears to be how most - if not all - other teams handle it. There's a lot of times I see other games where players jump offsides and are allowed to get back onside well before the snap.
Quit binging common sense into this.

They are talking about Madden you are talking about real football
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