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  #26  
Old 04-06-2012, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: Trade with Dolphins?

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Originally Posted by Hammerstripes View Post
He is being talked about as a top 10 pick not because of his ability or track record. The only reason he is being talked about as a top 10 pick is because teams always reach for QBs.
This. QBs make folks look re-tarded. Was Locker worth the 8th pick or Ponder worth the 12th?
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  #27  
Old 04-06-2012, 06:17 PM
TrojanPride TrojanPride is offline
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Default Re: Trade with Dolphins?

I think it's different with qb's than other positions. If you are taking a QB in the first round then this guy will be the face of your franchise for the foreseeable future. You have to be sold on that guys talent, believe that he is your franchise guy. If you believe that you take him at whatever 1st round pick you have. If you start trading back because you don't think he's worth a certain pick then you don't really believe in him and if so why use a 1st on him at all? Especially with the new rookie pay scale where a top 10pick doesn't break the bank.

I actually think we got incredibly lucky last year assuming that we were completely sold on dalton going into the draft. We left a lot of chances for someone else to swoop in. Imagine where we would be if that had happened? Don't get me wrong I love that it worked out for us. I love green and would rather have him than dalton if It came down to the choice of one or the other but given the rookie year that dalton had would people be calling us crazy if we had used the 4th pick on dalton? Maybe at the time but not now.

Last edited by TrojanPride; 04-06-2012 at 06:20 PM.
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  #28  
Old 04-06-2012, 06:51 PM
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dolphins Re: Trade with Dolphins?

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Originally Posted by bfine32 View Post
This. QBs make folks look re-tarded. Was Locker worth the 8th pick or Ponder worth the 12th?
Well Jake Locker looked pretty good in his limited playing time. I feel like he was more of a middle 1st round player, but it wasn't a huge reach. Ponder was a huge reach at the time since he was probably more of a 2nd round grade. I don't think he did too badly all things considered. He looked better than Blaine Gabbert at least, but then again Gabbert didn't have a lot of weapons with Mike Thomas (a #3 type player) being his top target.
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  #29  
Old 04-06-2012, 09:48 PM
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Default Re: Trade with Dolphins?

I have seen the draft prior to FA, during the Plan B FA period, FA era and now the Rookie Cap era. The players picked and Team building philosophy has changed each time.
It seems to me that now Teams are much more willing to gamble on certain players/positions in the first round, than they were previously, due to the reduced amount of money per slot.
This has also made certain positions much more attractive - such as QB and WR for example (5 out of the top 10 picks were either a QB or WR, last year). I would add OT and CB to that list as well.
This mentality, combined with FA prices for those positions, has created a mad rush for QBs and WRs in the draft, with CB and OT a close second . So other than the can't miss RB, LB or DE, the top 10-15 of the draft will be heavily tilted towards QBs, WRs, OTs and CBs. There will be Teams reaching for these players/positions this year as well.
So on the topic of Tannenhill - I think that he will benefit from the rookie cap era mentality, and get selected in the top 15. Whether he is worthy of it, is another story. But then again, worth is defined by the purchaser and the market, anyway.
In regards to the topic of this thread, I think one should look at the last time the Bengals were in the SuperBowl. That era is somewhat similar to the current era, in terms of the value of the draft. The Bengals made the SB in '88 because they had multiple first rounds picks from '84 to '86. They did not hit a home run on all those picks, but it brought them their starting QB, 2 starting WRs, almost the entire linebacking group, OT and DE.
Bengals have a chance to build the interior of the O-line, add a CB or solidify the LB group from first round talent at 17 and 21. If anything, I would rather they package a 2, 4 and 5 (if necessary) and move to the top of 2nd round, if bonafide first round talent is available after day one.
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  #30  
Old 04-06-2012, 10:08 PM
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Default Re: Trade with Dolphins?

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Originally Posted by Xs&Os View Post
I have seen the draft prior to FA, during the Plan B FA period, FA era and now the Rookie Cap era. The players picked and Team building philosophy has changed each time.
It seems to me that now Teams are much more willing to gamble on certain players/positions in the first round, than they were previously, due to the reduced amount of money per slot.
This has also made certain positions much more attractive - such as QB and WR for example (5 out of the top 10 picks were either a QB or WR, last year). I would add OT and CB to that list as well.
This mentality, combined with FA prices for those positions, has created a mad rush for QBs and WRs in the draft, with CB and OT a close second . So other than the can't miss RB, LB or DE, the top 10-15 of the draft will be heavily tilted towards QBs, WRs, OTs and CBs. There will be Teams reaching for these players/positions this year as well.
So on the topic of Tannenhill - I think that he will benefit from the rookie cap era mentality, and get selected in the top 15. Whether he is worthy of it, is another story. But then again, worth is defined by the purchaser and the market, anyway.
In regards to the topic of this thread, I think one should look at the last time the Bengals were in the SuperBowl. That era is somewhat similar to the current era, in terms of the value of the draft. The Bengals made the SB in '88 because they had multiple first rounds picks from '84 to '86. They did not hit a home run on all those picks, but it brought them their starting QB, 2 starting WRs, almost the entire linebacking group, OT and DE.
Bengals have a chance to build the interior of the O-line, add a CB or solidify the LB group from first round talent at 17 and 21. If anything, I would rather they package a 2, 4 and 5 (if necessary) and move to the top of 2nd round, if bonafide first round talent is available after day one.
I slightly disagree with you. Premium positions today are QB, LT, CB and Pass Rusher. I don't think WR is considered a premier position.

Of that group I think that QB kind of stands in a class by itself. Obviously it's the most important position especially now that the NFL has become a pass driven league. But at the same time there aren't a lot of great passing QB's coming out these days (especially with the rise of the spread). That may have squeezed some QB's higher than some people think they should go but I wouldn't say that teams recklessly gamble on QB prospects. A head-coach knows that basically he goes as his QB goes. If he picks a guy who he isn't sold on in the 1st round and the guy doesn't work out that coach is probably going to be fired shortly thereafter.
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  #31  
Old 04-06-2012, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: Trade with Dolphins?

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Originally Posted by Go Cards View Post
Like staying where we are at. But a 2nd and two 3rds would certainly be tempting. Could live with it for sure. But do agree, why would the Dolphins not just draft a QB with their 1st round pick ? Several will be available to them.
Yep, the money required to over draft is not that drastic anymore. They would rather over draft and keep the 3 picks. That is just my opinion though. If I was a gm and needed a qb, I'd over draft in this slotting system in a heart beat.
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  #32  
Old 04-06-2012, 11:41 PM
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Default Re: Trade with Dolphins?

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Originally Posted by TrojanPride View Post
I slightly disagree with you. Premium positions today are QB, LT, CB and Pass Rusher. I don't think WR is considered a premier position.

Of that group I think that QB kind of stands in a class by itself. Obviously it's the most important position especially now that the NFL has become a pass driven league. But at the same time there aren't a lot of great passing QB's coming out these days (especially with the rise of the spread). That may have squeezed some QB's higher than some people think they should go but I wouldn't say that teams recklessly gamble on QB prospects. A head-coach knows that basically he goes as his QB goes. If he picks a guy who he isn't sold on in the 1st round and the guy doesn't work out that coach is probably going to be fired shortly thereafter.
QB, LT, CB and DE have always been the sought after positions, so there is no real change there from 10-15 years ago to today. But keeping in mind that we are only in the second year of the rookie cap era, and recognizing last year's draft and this years FA signing dollars for WRs, it seems that a top notch WR is becoming a hot target.
My point was that since Teams don't have to invest large sums of money in top-10 picks now, they are more willing to take more of a chance on drafting positions that demand high dollar in FA market, such as QB and WR for example. OT, CB and DE are the other obvious positions.
I did not state nor did I imply that any Team would be reckless or inordinate with their picks. Since the last few discussions pertained to Tannenhill specifically, my thoughts were basically that Teams would reach for some positions now, than they had in the past. I don't think that Locker, Gabbert nor Ponder would have been picked in the top-12 in the past drafts. On the other hand, Rogers and Quinn would have been top-10 picks if they came out last year. Heck even Clausen and McCoy would have been first round picks.
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  #33  
Old 04-07-2012, 05:39 AM
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Default Re: Trade with Dolphins?

Its an interesting theory, its somewhat like the Browns taking Joe Thomas and then trading back up to get Brady Quinn. Who knows how serious they were about taking Brady, or even sliding back a few and still getting him, but the rolled the dice and ended up with both. Same thing with Dalton last year, don't know how close it was for Cincy to consider a QB but it worked out without a deal (almost made it to GB though).

Not so sure about Miami. I don't see that top 6 prospect falling to 8 to tempt them to take him over Tannehill. Maybe Trent Richardson, maybe they value Coples enough to take him or another player over Tannehill. Playing along, if they do make that offer to Cincy unless there is a stud sitting there of coarse you take it. There are many RBs, WRs, DBs and even guards ranked close to that 1st/2nd range that I'd be happy with. If there is any fire to the smoke of players they're interested in at 21, some of them could be there with that high 2nd pick.
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