Greg Williams Headhunter

[StripesNTn]

TLDR


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[Lawless_1]

This guys NFL coaching career is done... I see a lifetime ban coming his way.

[StripesNTn]

Originally Posted by Lawless_1

This guys NFL coaching career is done... I see a lifetime ban coming his way.

That was my thinking as well.

[geronomo]

Originally Posted by StripesNTn

His instructing everyone to hit heads coming out of piles is an order to commit personal fouls. I don't buy that his intention was anything other than what he stated. He wanted people taken out.

II guess context is everything. Its hard for me to judge Greg williams based on the recording because I have never been in an NFL lockeroom, nor do I have a good feel for what is conmmonplace. Are there any proven instances of players hitting heads coming out of piles? I know of none,. but your point on the matter is valid its hard to argue with a recording.

[BoomerFan]

Interesting perspective on this story on MMQB


It's impossible to have a one-way, clinical view of the Gleason-Pamphilon mess. At least for me it is.

Last fall, I arranged after some negotiations to do a story for the NBC Super Bowl pregame show on Steve Gleason, the former (and heroic) New Orleans Saints special-teamer who'd been diagnosed with ALS, a fatal disease, early in 2011. I flew to New Orleans in November to begin reporting on the story. Gleason and his shadow, documentarian Sean Pamphilon, met me for lunch. Pamphilon had been working for months with Gleason and wife Michel on a project that they hoped would turn into a marketable documentary or movie about Gleason's life of dealing with this fatal disease. For Gleason, an added motivation was that his infant son, Rivers, would have footage he could always see of his father, no matter how long his life lasted.

Immediately, I could see the closeness of the two men. Pamphilon helped Gleason -- still ambulatory, but with an awkward gait -- sit and get around when help was needed. When Michel arrived at the restaurant with baby Rivers an hour into the meeting, Pamphilon stood up and took the baby carrier and in a gentlemanly way cleared a place for Michel to sit. For a while he held the baby and cooed to him. And for the next couple of months, whenever I was around the Gleasons and Michel's tightly knit New Orleans family, Pamphilon was a combination of videographer and mother hen. I thought he was as close to the Gleason family as anyone could be without being in the family.

Which is why I can think of only one word to describe the disagreement and gulf between Pamphilon and Gleason this morning: sad.

Gleason has remained close to the Saints since his diagnosis. Very close. Sean Payton has given him the run of the football building; if Gleason ever needs treatment or help with rehab, he can use the Saints' training facilities. Last fall, the Saints surprised Gleason, who last played for the team in Payton's first year as coach, 2006, with a Super Bowl ring, even though he didn't play on the 2009 Super Bowl-winning team. The owner of the team, Tom Benson, thinks so much of Gleason that he commissioned a bronze statue of Gleason blocking a punt in the first post-Katrina game in 2006 for the outside of the Superdome.

Payton invited Gleason to make the trip to the Saints' playoff game in San Francisco in January. The night before the game, Gleason was invited into the defensive team meeting room, and his shadow, Pamphilon, went with him. That's when defensive coordinator Gregg Williams made his infamous speech directing the Saints to go after various players on the 49ers in graphic and disturbing ways -- the exclamation point on what the NFL believes has been a three-year practice of bounties on opposing players and off-the-books financial rewards for starry defensive plays.

A few things here are very clear.

1. Pamphilon was disturbed by what he heard in the meeting.

2. Pamphilon would never have been in the meeting if he wasn't a trusted friend of Gleason.

3. Pamphilon tried to convince Gleason to allow him to use the audio damning Williams. Gleason, who never played for Williams, didn't like what he heard in the meeting either, but he didn't want the audio released. Obviously, if what they heard in the meeting was going to be made public by Gleason or Pamphilon, the Saints would never have let either in the room.

Gleason knew if the tape came out, he'd spend much of whatever cogent energy he has left on something he never intended to fight -- the rantings of a renegade coach -- instead of focusing on what his aim is: trying to make ALS patients live more productive lives.

Pamphilon betrayed the wishes of a dying man and a former very close friend by releasing the tape; that much we know. But the interesting thing in this story is that the public seems conflicted much more than I thought would be the case. The majority who have responded to me on Twitter (I'd say 60 percent) have said Williams' words were so reprehensible that they, in essence, gave Pamphilon sufficient reason to break his relationship with Gleason and release the audio to the public. He's being seen as a whistleblower the public should applaud, not condemn.

By blowing the whistle, though, what has Pamphilon accomplished? He has shone a light on a dark story. He has earned a seat at what I expect will be a Congressional hearing on the bounty scandal. But Williams already had been suspended indefinitely by commissioner Roger Goodell. Williams already had said he would not appeal the suspension. The release of the audio didn't affect the league's probe, except perhaps to slam the door shut on any chance Payton -- an innocent in Pamphilon's eyes -- had to get his appeal reduced. I got the distinct impression sniffing around the probe Friday that the audio corroborated the league's investigation but did not advance the story.

Now as to the legality of it. Pamphilon, through Mike Silver of Yahoo! Sports, said he did not violate the agreement he had with Gleason when releasing the audio, and Silver wrote the contract does not "specifically prohibit either party from posting footage ... prior to completion of the film.'' I have not seen the contract, but a source with knowledge of the relationship between Gleason and Pamphilon said it was never contemplated anything regarding the film would be released without both sides agreeing.

The mere discussion of what's legally right is what turns my stomach the most. I told you how close these two men were. This is one of those cases where what's legally right shouldn't matter. What's morally right should. What's morally right is that Pamphilon, who never would have heard what Williams said without being attached to Gleason, shouldn't have released the tape without Gleason's permission.

I'm tremendously conflicted on this story. I've thought about it for three days straight, trying to divine what's right and wrong. I enrolled in college to study journalism in 1975, one year after the Watergate burglary and coverup forced Richard Nixon to resign the presidency. I'm all for the public's right to know. And in the end, I'm tempted to say the more clarity about this story the better, just so the public understands why Goodell acted with such an iron hand. But I can't get over the way the material was acquired and made public. It's just not right.

I cannot find it in my heart to quite call Pamphilon a rat, but I cannot call him a hero either.

Edit: The next page of MMQB has some quotes. I hadn't listened to the audio before this, but reading this now, yeah this is pretty egregious.

Quote of the Week I

"We've got to do everything in the world to make sure we kill Frank Gore's head. We want him running sideways. We want his head sideways ... Every single one of you, before you get off the pile, affect the head. Early, affect the head. Continue, tough and hit the head ... We need to decide on how many times we can beat Frank Gore's head.''

--Former New Orleans defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, in his pre-game speech to the defense before the Saints played San Francisco, in the now-infamous audio released by documentarian Sean Pamphilon on Thursday.

Quote of the Week II

"This is the most heinous, egregious thing in the history of the this game ... Not for one second would I sit in a room and listen to someone say, 'We're going to take out someone's ACL,' without standing up and saying, 'What the hell are you talking about?' ''

-- Former NFL defensive tackle Warren Sapp, to Steve Corkran of the Contra Costa (Calif.) Times, concerning Williams' speech the night before the San Francisco playoff game.

[geronomo]

Originally Posted by shaolinghost

So you're perfectly okay with coaches and players intentionally trying to ruin people's careers and lives for the purposes of winning a game? Not only that, when the Saints(irony) were called out on it the first time they lied about it. It doesn't really matter how prevalent it is, and was, it's still morally, and in some cases legally wrong to do that to somebody.

Hell, UFC fighters have repeatedly stated that their intentions are never to seriously injure an opponent, just win the fight, and they are punching and choking each other.

If zimmer was telling our guys to do it then yes I would have no problem with it especially when we play the Steelers. Hockey guys fight all the time and thats a big part of the fan interest, Goodell is just trying to act like he cares about player saftey. If The Nfl really cared about player saftey they would give more money to retired players who suffer a lifetime of pain and in some cases are hooked on painkillers. Goodell is really in to creating the perception he cares, but at the end of the day he just wants to steal money from the players with these ridiculous fines and .make a name for himself.

[geronomo]

Originally Posted by Bmoreblitz

Let me start off by saying that the ticky tack grazing the qb's helmet penalties ****** me off to no end.

It's easy to talk tough on a message board. Sure, football fans like hard hitting. I love hits like when JJ hit Ward game one of the season. Do that as hard as you're humanly capable of doing. That's football. But there's a huge difference between that stuff and cheap shots, intentionally hurting someone, and the coaches instructing their players to do that attacking the head or ACL. These examples are way over the line.

I agree with you as long as it is allowed to cheap shot the Steelers and target there heads and knees in the first quarter only of course.

[geronomo]

Originally Posted by Millz

Really?? I am not Goodell's biggest fan, but I agree with the punishments this time. And did you not hear what Williams told them right before the nfc title game?




If anyone still defends Williams after this, then that is just sad.

My distaste for Goodell makes it impossible for me to admit you are right.

[BengalYankee]

Originally Posted by geronomo

If zimmer was telling our guys to do it then yes I would have no problem with it especially when we play the Steelers. Hockey guys fight all the time and thats a big part of the fan interest, Goodell is just trying to act like he cares about player saftey. If The Nfl really cared about player saftey they would give more money to retired players who suffer a lifetime of pain and in some cases are hooked on painkillers. Goodell is really in to creating the perception he cares, but at the end of the day he just wants to steal money from the players with these ridiculous fines and .make a name for himself.

I agree, you are correct. The NFL is full of hypocrisy, just like some members here who whine, but have a blind eye towards teams and coach's aka Madden who actually paid fines for his players illegally hitting players.

It doesn't matter whether it happened years ago. There are recent NFL films with evidence that mention the acts.