Steelers lock up Brown

[6andcounting]

Originally Posted by rfaulk34

I think you're overstating your educative abilities.

Blame the teacher, not the student. Just because it was a good excuse to tell your parent in high school doesn't mean it won't get you smacked here.

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by 6andcounting

Blame the teacher, not the student. Just because it was a good excuse to tell your parent in high school doesn't mean it won't get you smacked here.

So you're a certified teacher then?

[6andcounting]

Originally Posted by rfaulk34

So you're a certified teacher then?

Bengal fans think you need some type certificate to prove they're idiots?

[Asmith(DE)]

Originally Posted by Luvnit2

Vincent jackson just held out recently until week 11. He then got a huge long term free agent contract. Was he stupid? I think not, he got paid and the Chargers were left out of the playoffs.

So, I repeat if Wallace chooses to miss the first 10 games, then that hurts the Steelers because with a new offense, he would not be effective until probably game 14. But, he has not done anything yet so until it plays out, it is all just possible scenarios. You are choosing a great scenario for the Steelers and I am showing you worst case scenario. Of course, I am hoping for the worst case as are most Bengals fans who hope the Steelers fail.

He can choose the first 10 games to sit out if he wants. Just means the team controls him for another cheap year at the same price as this one. This is exactly why he cannot possibly hold out of any games. He needs to be on the field for the season to be eligable for free agency.
And Vincent did not hold out last season. It was the year before (hence he had to play the next season for the Chargers again)
Ps, It is widely recognized that the Bucs vastly overpaid for VJ. If he didn't find a foolish and desperate team like that, he hurt himself.

[Asmith(DE)]

Originally Posted by Luvnit2

Then explain why Wallace was the priority and Brown was second priority with Colbert. Brown only became priority after Wallace told him to shove it.

No. How daft are you? Wallace is/was a free agent (restricted) hence the higher priority. Brown was under control until next season.

How dumb do you have to be to require an explanation on such a simple concept....

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by 6andcounting

Bengal fans think you need some type certificate to prove they're idiots?

You should wrap up current conversations before opening new ones. Unless you want to look like some idiot.

[6andcounting]

Originally Posted by rfaulk34

You should wrap up current conversations before opening new ones. Unless you want to look like some idiot.

I was directly responding to you.

[Ben zoo 2]

Originally Posted by Asmith(DE)

He can choose the first 10 games to sit out if he wants. Just means the team controls him for another cheap year at the same price as this one. This is exactly why he cannot possibly hold out of any games. He needs to be on the field for the season to be eligable for free agency.
And Vincent did not hold out last season. It was the year before (hence he had to play the next season for the Chargers again)
Ps, It is widely recognized that the Bucs vastly overpaid for VJ. If he didn't find a foolish and desperate team like that, he hurt himself.

A player can opt to sit out the first 10 games and play the final 6 games. Those six games then count towards the players service time. When vjax did, he was franchised the following (I.e. last) year. The chargers would have had to franchise him again this year if they wanted to keep him this year, if they failed to sign him long term. They deemed the price prohibitive and let him walk.. The cost of franshing the same player in consecutive years goes up dramatically.

On a side note, I have read comments from opposing teams as to the fact they deem brown a better route runner, etc than Wallace. Comments?

[Asmith(DE)]

Originally Posted by Ben zoo 2

A player can opt to sit out the first 10 games and play the final 6 games. Those six games then count towards the players service time. When vjax did, he was franchised the following (I.e. last) year. The chargers would have had to franchise him again this year if they wanted to keep him this year, if they failed to sign him long term. They deemed the price prohibitive and let him walk.. The cost of franshing the same player in consecutive years goes up dramatically.

On a side note, I have read comments from opposing teams as to the fact they deem brown a better route runner, etc than Wallace. Comments?

I thought those were changed in the new CBA. Anyway, what do you want comments on?
Brown is a better route runner. You won't find anyone anywhere who believes Wallace is a better route runner. Wallace is still a one trick pony.

[6andcounting]

Originally Posted by Asmith(DE)

I thought those were changed in the new CBA. Anyway, what do you want comments on?
Brown is a better route runner. You won't find anyone anywhere who believes Wallace is a better route runner. Wallace is still a one trick pony.

While I agree Wallace is far better at going deep than anything else, I feel like simply calling him a one trick pony is too much of an understatement. Nate Washington and Dante Stallworth are one trick ponies, Wallace is better then both of them all-around. Brown is the better route runner and brings more value to the team, but Wallace isn't just a Nate Washington.

[BigPapaKain]

Originally Posted by 6andcounting

While I agree Wallace is far better at going deep than anything else, I feel like simply calling him a one trick pony is too much of an understatement. Nate Washington and Dante Stallworth are one trick ponies, Wallace is better then both of them all-around. Brown is the better route runner and brings more value to the team, but Wallace isn't just a Nate Washington.

I suppose running a Go-Route and a Post-Route would make him more than a one-trick pony.

But just barely.

[6andcounting]

Originally Posted by BigPapaKain

I suppose running a Go-Route and a Post-Route would make him more than a one-trick pony.

But just barely.

Wasn't it vs the Bengals he took a bubble screen for a TD?

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by 6andcounting

I was directly responding to you.

You answered a question with a question to avoid answering the question. Just answer the question.

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by 6andcounting

While I agree Wallace is far better at going deep than anything else, I feel like simply calling him a one trick pony is too much of an understatement. Nate Washington and Dante Stallworth are one trick ponies, Wallace is better then both of them all-around. Brown is the better route runner and brings more value to the team, but Wallace isn't just a Nate Washington.

Than, "better than", teach.

[BigPapaKain]

Originally Posted by 6andcounting

Wasn't it vs the Bengals he took a bubble screen for a TD?

Hell if I know. I didn't get to watch many games the past couple of years.

[Wet Crevice]

After this season and for the next several years, when people talk about the best receiver in the league they will say:

Magatron A1, Green A2.

Wallace and brown will be an afterthought.

[Bmoreblitz]

I'd trade him to the Colts (to unite with Arians) for a second rounder. The Colts will probably **** again and that would give the Steelers three early picks. Just my opinion. Brown, Sanders, and Cotchery should do just fine, and the Steelers new OC wants to run the ball more anyway.

[6andcounting]

Originally Posted by Bmoreblitz

I'd trade him to the Colts (to unite with Arians) for a second rounder. The Colts will probably **** again and that would give the Steelers three early picks. Just my opinion. Brown, Sanders, and Cotchery should do just fine, and the Steelers new OC wants to run the ball more anyway.

Mike Merriwethaer was a linebacker for the Steelers in the 80's. He was a 3 time all-pro for us, including in 1987. Well in 1988 he held out because of a contract dispute and we let him miss the whole season. We traded him for a 1st round pick after the season, but doing it any earlier would be giving in to his demands. Wallace will not be traded until after the season,(assuming we franchise him or he misses 11+ games) unless a team lures us with a high 1st round pick. Teams with high 1st round picks generally have made some dumb mistakes, but dumb enough to give up a 1st rounder to a holdout? Especially since no team offered him a contract prior to the draft, when he would have cost a 1st rounder. IMO Wallace will be a Steeler this year. Whether on his $2.7 million tag, big contract or as a holdout is the only question.

[Whatever]

Originally Posted by Asmith(DE)

He can choose the first 10 games to sit out if he wants. Just means the team controls him for another cheap year at the same price as this one. This is exactly why he cannot possibly hold out of any games. He needs to be on the field for the season to be eligable for free agency.
And Vincent did not hold out last season. It was the year before (hence he had to play the next season for the Chargers again)
Ps, It is widely recognized that the Bucs vastly overpaid for VJ. If he didn't find a foolish and desperate team like that, he hurt himself.

I believe you are mistaken,here. Wallace only has be on the roster for 6 games to accrue a year towards UFA. That means he can sit the first 10 games,sign his tender,probably ride the pine for the last 6 games,and still be an UFA next year.

"That’d be an awfully feeble course of action on the player’s part, however. If Wallace is making this a business decision, he’ll sit out the first ten regular season games and report thereafter, only to gain an accrued year toward 2013 unrestricted free agency."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ble-for-trade/

[Whatever]

Originally Posted by 6andcounting

Mike Merriwethaer was a linebacker for the Steelers in the 80's. He was a 3 time all-pro for us, including in 1987. Well in 1988 he held out because of a contract dispute and we let him miss the whole season. We traded him for a 1st round pick after the season, but doing it any earlier would be giving in to his demands. Wallace will not be traded until after the season,(assuming we franchise him or he misses 11+ games) unless a team lures us with a high 1st round pick. Teams with high 1st round picks generally have made some dumb mistakes, but dumb enough to give up a 1st rounder to a holdout? Especially since no team offered him a contract prior to the draft, when he would have cost a 1st rounder. IMO Wallace will be a Steeler this year. Whether on his $2.7 million tag, big contract or as a holdout is the only question.

Hard to say,honestly. Colbert is probably using the same tactics with Wallace that Mike Brown used with Carson Palmer. In other words,he will repeat over and over again that Wallace will not be traded in order to prevent a bunch of lowball offers and make an interested team come with an over the top offer in order to get him. Smart move. There's really nothing to be gained by advertising to the world that you're taking offers and looking desperate in the process.

[6andcounting]

Originally Posted by Whatever

Hard to say,honestly. Colbert is probably using the same tactics with Wallace that Mike Brown used with Carson Palmer. In other words,he will repeat over and over again that Wallace will not be traded in order to prevent a bunch of lowball offers and make an interested team come with an over the top offer in order to get him. Smart move. There's really nothing to be gained by advertising to the world that you're taking offers and looking desperate in the process.

Colbert said yesturday that Wallace is unavailable for a trade, but that's just some sneaky wordplay because since he hasn't signed his tender he's can't be available to be traded. The Steelers wanted to dump Holmes for whatever they could get because of his off-field stuff. But when he comes to contract holdouts they will make sure they have the upper hand until they decide they don't care anymore.

Unless Wallace has told them he has no interest in being a Steeler, I don't think they are trying to stir up trade offers as much as they are simply forcing Wallace's hand. A by product of doing that just so happens to be that they prevent trade partners from having the power to lowball. I do think they want to keep Wallace, but at this point they left it up to Wallace to choose his future.


EDIT: To respond to your post above without making a seperate post, Brown was the team MVP last year. I think he has proven himself more than you think. Brown become thier #1 priority when they cut off talks with Wallace. They got him signed in a day or two as opposed to being in the same situation with him as they are with Wallace next year. His deal is back loaded enough that the Steelers still have room to work with Wallace and limit the risk if he suddenly forgets how to play good football.

[Whatever]

Originally Posted by Asmith(DE)

How could they do the right thing and also look desperate as you state? They gave Brown a favorable (for the club) contract, which was one of their priorities. Wallace choose to ignore his own agents advice and not show up to camp. He called a Steelers bluff, but the Steelers werent bluffing. So they shut down negotiations and moved onto priority 2.

That's not desperate. Desperate would've been to cave in to his demands. And to say "Brown isn't as good as Wallace,and Colbert knows it" is a hogwash assumption.
Wallace's production is better. But if we're talking about a complete receiver, Brown is shockingly lightyears ahead of Wallace.

Then again, what the heck does Colbert know about receivers, he's never been able to draft any good ones

Oh wait..

$8 million a year for a #2 WR who has had one good year is a favorable contract? It's good for the Steelers IF Brown can prove he's a #1 WR. If he doesn't develop anymore and regresses because Wallace isn't pulling double teams off of him anymore,then it's a bad deal for the Steelers. It's a big gamble that didn't need to made,right now.

Signing Brown at this point is desperate because it isn't a move that the Steelers needed to make at this point in time. IMO,they should have continued to play him under his rookie deal this year and make him prove that he's worth that kind of money. The only reason to do this now is if Colbert is scared that he can't get a deal done with Brown next year when Wallace is out of the picture,and Brown walks the following year without compensation. Either that,or he was just signing Brown to eliminate any possibility of a long-term deal for Wallace to try and force his hand into signing his tender.

Thing that you guys touting Brown fail to realize is that everything,to this point,has been set up in his favor for him to be productive. He's in a pass first offense. He's got the best deep threat in the game drawing double teams off of him. He's got the best mobile QB in the game breaking tackles and scrambling to buy him time to get open when he can't get seperation on his initial route. He SHOULD be reasonably productive in these circumstances,especially when you throw the ball in his direction 120+ times. He should break 1,000 yards. If he doesn't,then the guy is a total scrub. But just because he's proven to be a good role player in ideal conditions doesn't mean he's a #1 WR worth a long term extension after only one productive year.

[SociopathicSteelerFan]

Originally Posted by Whatever

$8 million a year for a #2 WR who has had one good year is a favorable contract? It's good for the Steelers IF Brown can prove he's a #1 WR. If he doesn't develop anymore and regresses because Wallace isn't pulling double teams off of him anymore,then it's a bad deal for the Steelers. It's a big gamble that didn't need to made,right now.

How long have you been following football? If I have to explain to you why saying he's getting 8 M per year is stupid then the answer would be not long enough.

Signing Brown at this point is desperate because it isn't a move that the Steelers needed to make at this point in time. IMO,they should have continued to play him under his rookie deal this year and make him prove that he's worth that kind of money. The only reason to do this now is if Colbert is scared that he can't get a deal done with Brown next year when Wallace is out of the picture,and Brown walks the following year without compensation. Either that,or he was just signing Brown to eliminate any possibility of a long-term deal for Wallace to try and force his hand into signing his tender.

Again, you show an astounding lack of knowledge. Let's say, for example, that Brown has another monster year, you know another year on par with AJ Green. Do you think it just might cost more to sign him long term then? Suppose he has another good year after being RFA tagged. Think it might cost them even more then? So maybe, just maybe, there's another reason other than being "scared" to sign Brown now. As Brown's deal is heavily backloaded it does not make signing Wallace long term impossible. But someone who actually understood how the NFL works would know that.

Thing that you guys touting Brown fail to realize is that everything,to this point,has been set up in his favor for him to be productive. He's in a pass first offense. He's got the best deep threat in the game drawing double teams off of him. He's got the best mobile QB in the game breaking tackles and scrambling to buy him time to get open when he can't get seperation on his initial route. He SHOULD be reasonably productive in these circumstances,especially when you throw the ball in his direction 120+ times. He should break 1,000 yards. If he doesn't,then the guy is a total scrub. But just because he's proven to be a good role player in ideal conditions doesn't mean he's a #1 WR worth a long term extension after only one productive year.

It doesn't mean he's not either. There are numerous posts on why this is a smart move. You bring the same tired arguments that have already been addressed. Like I've said in the past, sometimes you display some solid insight into the the game and sound logic. Other times you sound like Sloppy just hijacked your account. I'll leave it to the viewers at home to decide which is occurring here.

[Whatever]

Originally Posted by SociopathicSteelerFan

How long have you been following football? If I have to explain to you why saying he's getting 8 M per year is stupid then the answer would be not long enough.



Again, you show an astounding lack of knowledge. Let's say, for example, that Brown has another monster year, you know another year on par with AJ Green. Do you think it just might cost more to sign him long term then? Suppose he has another good year after being RFA tagged. Think it might cost them even more then? So maybe, just maybe, there's another reason other than being "scared" to sign Brown now. As Brown's deal is heavily backloaded it does not make signing Wallace long term impossible. But someone who actually understood how the NFL works would know that.




It doesn't mean he's not either. There are numerous posts on why this is a smart move. You bring the same tired arguments that have already been addressed. Like I've said in the past, sometimes you display some solid insight into the the game and sound logic. Other times you sound like Sloppy just hijacked your account. I'll leave it to the viewers at home to decide which is occurring here.

The NFL is full of one-year wonders that signed big money deals and later proved that they weren't worth it and fell into obscurity. I'd personally feel a lot more secure about giving a guy with back to back 1,000 yard seasons a little more money than I would about handing $8+ mill a year to a guy with one and who only scored 2 TD's in the process. If Brown has a monster year this year,what's to keep him from claiming he's underpaid under his current deal? Yes,Brown's deal is backloaded,but you're already over the 2013 cap,and Brown having a high cap figure in future years makes a long term deal with Wallace impractical,if not impossible. Thing about backloading deals is that eventually,it all adds up,and you've got to gut your franchise as all that dead money eats up your cap room.

Most of the arguments about why this is a smart move revolve around people's opinion that Brown is better than Wallace,and I'm not in that camp. I've given logical reasons as to why this is a questionable move,which is pretty much offset by the HOPE that Brown will develop into a #1 WR. He hasn't proven it,yet,and since the Steelers have him locked up for the next two years,I think the smarter strategy would be to see what he does this year. Yes,he may cost a little more,but then you're a lot more sure about what you have. Just because you don't agree with that line of logic doesn't mean that it's not valid.

[GreggyDigital]

Originally Posted by Whatever

The NFL is full of one-year wonders that signed big money deals and later proved that they weren't worth it and fell into obscurity. I'd personally feel a lot more secure about giving a guy with back to back 1,000 yard seasons a little more money than I would about handing $8+ mill a year to a guy with one and who only scored 2 TD's in the process. If Brown has a monster year this year,what's to keep him from claiming he's underpaid under his current deal? Yes,Brown's deal is backloaded,but you're already over the 2013 cap,and Brown having a high cap figure in future years makes a long term deal with Wallace impractical,if not impossible. Thing about backloading deals is that eventually,it all adds up,and you've got to gut your franchise as all that dead money eats up your cap room.

Most of the arguments about why this is a smart move revolve around people's opinion that Brown is better than Wallace,and I'm not in that camp. I've given logical reasons as to why this is a questionable move,which is pretty much offset by the HOPE that Brown will develop into a #1 WR. He hasn't proven it,yet,and since the Steelers have him locked up for the next two years,I think the smarter strategy would be to see what he does this year. Yes,he may cost a little more,but then you're a lot more sure about what you have. Just because you don't agree with that line of logic doesn't mean that it's not valid.

It's about 9 million guaranteed with 2.2 against the cap this year.

Please, stop talking total money "per year." It doesn't matter in the long scheme of things since the Steelers will simply restructure his contract for the years he is cap heavy and prorate the signing bonus.

Bottom line is that Steelers got an up and coming WR on the cheap and they still have cap room this year. Another great move by the best front office in the business.