Marvin Extension

[DWright]

Originally Posted by whodey21

Wrong. We tried to match the Texans' offer as a sub-par franchise. We made him choose between a team that goes all-in to win, and a team that tries to pocket as much cash as we can every season, without giving any monetary incentive to choose to play for the losers. In the end, he chose to win, and we got to pocket more salary cap money than any team in the NFL (yay?).

Duh? That means the Bengals let him walk? No he wanted to go to a team he knew was going to win because lets face it going into the 2011 season the Bengals were not considered a playoff team. They offered him a contract. They let Brandon Johnson walk. They let Bobbie Williams walk. They wanted to keep JJo, but like Carson he was done with the Bengals.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by whodey21

Wrong. We tried to match the Texans' offer as a sub-par franchise. We made him choose between a team that goes all-in to win, and a team that tries to pocket as much cash as we can every season, without giving any monetary incentive to choose to play for the losers. In the end, he chose to win, and we got to pocket more salary cap money than any team in the NFL (yay?).

Wrong......the difference in my understanding was guaranteed money. So in essence the offers.were very close. One thing people such as you seem to leave out which was verified by JJ himself is that the uncertainty at QB played a part in his decision. Well, that and the fact that the Texans are just silly enough to provide soap and deoderant for their multimillionaire players. God forbid they have to buy their own.

[whodey21]

Originally Posted by DWright

Duh? That means the Bengals let him walk? No he wanted to go to a team he knew was going to win because lets face it going into the 2011 season the Bengals were not considered a playoff team. They offered him a contract. They let Brandon Johnson walk. They let Bobbie Williams walk. They wanted to keep JJo, but like Carson he was done with the Bengals.

I'll make this very simple. Mikey will give you $10 and he will punch you in the face every day for a year. Bobby will give you $10 and give you ice cream whenever you want it. You can only choose one option, what do you pick? If Mikey really wants to punch you in the face, he should offer you at least a little more money, or making an offer is really just an insult.

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Wrong......the difference in my understanding was guaranteed money. So in essence the offers.were very close. One thing people such as you seem to leave out which was verified by JJ himself is that the uncertainty at QB played a part in his decision. Well, that and the fact that the Texans are just silly enough to provide soap and deoderant for their multimillionaire players. God forbid they have to buy their own.

Exactly the problem. We had enough money that we weren't using to make an offer to blow the Texans away. When you're terrible, you have to pay people more to stay.

[DWright]

Originally Posted by whodey21

I'll make this very simple. Mikey will give you $10 and he will punch you in the face every day for a year. Bobby will give you $10 and give you ice cream whenever you want it. You can only choose one option, what do you pick? If Mikey really wants to punch you in the face, he should offer you at least a little more money, or making an offer is really just an insult.



Exactly the problem. We had enough money that we weren't using to make an offer to blow the Texans away. When you're terrible, you have to pay people more to stay.

No no no, You don't offer a player more than hes worth especially one that never stayed healthy a whole season. Yes they have salary cap space right this second, but next year and the year after that money is going to start shrinking big time to keep the players they have right now. Andre Smith is going into a contract year where hes going to be asking for ALOT of money. At the same time they could be offering Gresham and Geno extensions because the next year is their contract year.

If you start playing players more than they are worth you get into salary cap problems like the Steelers.

Edit: Carson also screwed them out of being able to spend 11 million last season.

[whodey21]

Originally Posted by DWright

No no no, You don't offer a player more than hes worth especially one that never stayed healthy a whole season. Yes they have salary cap space right this second, but next year and the year after that money is going to start shrinking big time to keep the players they have right now. Andre Smith is going into a contract year where hes going to be asking for ALOT of money. At the same time they could be offering Gresham and Geno extensions because the next year is their contract year.

If you start playing players more than they are worth you get into salary cap problems like the Steelers.

Edit: Carson also screwed them out of being able to spend 11 million last season.

If we got to roll over all of our cap space to the next year, this would make perfect sense. If we didn't lead the league in salary cap space, this would make perfect sense.

As it stands, we could have offered a ridiculously huge, front-loaded contract to him, and it would have had no effect on our ability to pay players this year or in the future. We also would have kept a Pro-Bowler on roster and maybe not had to lose to his new team twice.

As it stands, the only thing that was helped by not spending that money was MB's bank account.

[DWright]

Originally Posted by whodey21

If we got to roll over all of our cap space to the next year, this would make perfect sense. If we didn't lead the league in salary cap space, this would make perfect sense.

As it stands, we could have offered a ridiculously huge, front-loaded contract to him, and it would have had no effect on our ability to pay players this year or in the future. We also would have kept a Pro-Bowler on roster and maybe not had to lose to his new team twice.

As it stands, the only thing that was helped by not spending that money was MB's bank account.

The problem was that Carson was screwing them. If they spent his 11 million Carson could have came back and forced them to release him or make Mike Brown release other players to be able to pay him that 11 million.

[whodey21]

Originally Posted by DWright

The problem was that Carson was screwing them. If they spent his 11 million Carson could have came back and forced them to release him or make Mike Brown release other players to be able to pay him that 11 million.

Right, so we could have given JJoe, what? 15 million for one year, and still had 11 million left for insurance? My guess is that it would have taken considerably less than that to sign him. We had waaay more than 11 million to spend, my friend.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by whodey21

I'll make this very simple. Mikey will give you $10 and he will punch you in the face every day for a year. Bobby will give you $10 and give you ice cream whenever you want it. You can only choose one option, what do you pick? If Mikey really wants to punch you in the face, he should offer you at least a little more money, or making an offer is really just an insult.



Exactly the problem. We had enough money that we weren't using to make an offer to blow the Texans away. When you're terrible, you have to pay people more to stay.

Wise decision by this team. He is a player that had not proven he could stay healthy for an entire season. They had another top corner coming up for re-signing, they had an uncertain situation at QB and WR. Given the circumstances it was a good offer.

I swear some of you people act as if every core player they have is lost to free agency. One guy. One big name lost to free agency. Happens to the majority of teams every year.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by whodey21

If we got to roll over all of our cap space to the next year, this would make perfect sense. If we didn't lead the league in salary cap space, this would make perfect sense.

As it stands, we could have offered a ridiculously huge, front-loaded contract to him, and it would have had no effect on our ability to pay players this year or in the future. We also would have kept a Pro-Bowler on roster and maybe not had to lose to his new team twice.

As it stands, the only thing that was helped by not spending that money was MB's bank account.

This is where you are wrong. When you make these sort of deals it opens you up to them in the future. Once an agent sees these doors open they are like parasites. Every deal signed can have an effect on every future deal. Do you think the out of control salaries just happened overnight? No it is the effect of the next guy wanting more. It started out alittle more and well we see where it is now.

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by kevin

Yes, I will look at that 2002 team and say the team had no talent. 2-14 was pretty bad. The 1990s were awful. 2000 ,2001 and 2002 were awful. ....Some fans want to remember good years, good players or good teams from the 1990s or early 2000s. .....They weren't called The Bungles for nothing. ....Under Shula, Coslett and LeBeau this team always sunk to new lows. ....People forget how awful this team was when Marvin was hired. I think in many ways it was worse than the expansion 1968 Bengals. Bengals in 2002 were rated the worst franchise in pro sports, not just football, all pro sports. You can't rebuild a mess like that overnight. Marvin got the team to 8-8 pretty fast and then play-offs in his 3rd year but that team fell apart as soon as it came together. The 2005 draft picks of Pollack and Thurman were gone as fast as they came. That really was a set back. Then Rudi, Irons, Levi and other key injury losses and Big Willie getting old. The late Henrys constant suspensions. The 2005 team fell apart fast and was not a dynasty team. .....2009 and 2011 show promise. Yes, there were some ego problem players in the bad 2010, but they are gone and the 2011 team has bought into the coaches and winning.

I see no way, no way some of you can pretend this was a good talented team when Marvin came in. They were 2-14 for a reason. LeBeau was fired for a reason. They were called The Bungles for a reason. This was in no way a good team with good players in 2002. It was indeed the very worst team in the NFL. Coach Lewis has changed that. Thats why he got the extension. ....and he did get the extension. The players like it, I like it.......How bad was 2002. I worked with a guy who had season tickets who didn't want to go to the games. He tried to give me free tickets. I did not want them either. I would have had to have gone and watched the 2002 team. I did not want to. He said scalpers couldn't sell tickets at games because fans were giving tickets away by the handfull. Don't tell me 2002 was a good team. Marvin took over the worst team in the NFL, The Bungles. He has made them The Bengals again. The 2011 team looked like it could become a dynasty team because of it's youth and talent. GO Lewis, GO BENGALS !!!!

This was already explained to you by myself as well as another poster. Those teams stunk,,,yes,,,,but when marvin took over he had TWO good RBs,,,TWO up and coming great WRs,,,an awesome o line as well got the #1 draft pick and got the best QB ,,your failing to understand all the upcoming talent that was young on that team as well as the carson pick in the draft, and boom you got an explosive offense.

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

Why people refuse to look at the talent we have had here and instead blame everything on Marvin is beyond me.

Yeah you mean a pro bowl QB,,who had a top 3 WR,,as well as a decent run game and an awesome o line??? As well as a slot WR who led the league in receptions one year,,and i believe tied for first or came in second another year on top of having chad johnson?? Yeah we had absolutely no talent,,,so marv is not to blame, cause we just had a really crappy team.

[whodey21]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Wise decision by this team. He is a player that had not proven he could stay healthy for an entire season. They had another top corner coming up for re-signing, they had an uncertain situation at QB and WR. Given the circumstances it was a good offer.

I swear some of you people act as if every core player they have is lost to free agency. One guy. One big name lost to free agency. Happens to the majority of teams every year.

One Pro Bowler. One player who was/is among the best at his position. One player we could afford to sign, and didn't. One step towards being a better team, that we didn't take.

One more chance at a playoff win that we left on the table, and the only thing that came out of it was more money for MB.

"Given the circumstances," some added stability would have been nice. We didn't "lose him", we let him go, and letting him go was stupid. That has been my position all along.

Originally Posted by OSUfan

This is where you are wrong. When you make these sort of deals it opens you up to them in the future. Once an agent sees these doors open they are like parasites. Every deal signed can have an effect on every future deal. Do you think the out of control salaries just happened overnight? No it is the effect of the next guy wanting more. It started out alittle more and well we see where it is now.

That's your argument? The slippery slope? I welcome the "problem" that comes with having so many Pro Bowlers on roster that you can't pay them all. If anything, that slippery slope came and went when we paid Bryant without so much as a physical.

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

No. We just realize that the Head Coach is not the mainreason for the team being "average".

A different head coach would not have gotten Mike Brown to spend more money last year. In the eyes of people like you Marvin would have been a better coach last year if Mike Brown had spent money for a couple of high quality OGs and we had won a playoff game.

You can't just judge a HC by his won lost record. Yhave to look at what he had to work with.

And as i posted earlier in marvins own words,,he claims him and brown are on the same page and that hes confident that everytime he goes in browns office that eventually they will see eye to eye and work something out.

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by DWright

This is getting old the Bengals did NOT let JJo walk he left its completely different.

he left cause another team gave him a better deal,,,we didnt give him what he fealt he was worth. kinda like TJ

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Wrong......the difference in my understanding was guaranteed money. So in essence the offers.were very close. One thing people such as you seem to leave out which was verified by JJ himself is that the uncertainty at QB played a part in his decision. Well, that and the fact that the Texans are just silly enough to provide soap and deoderant for their multimillionaire players. God forbid they have to buy their own.

Yes cause we all know a millionaire NFL player switches teams to get free soap and deodorant

He would have stayed here had we gave him a better deal,,,although i do feel that other things played a part like the QB problem and the fact that we just cant do anything in the postseason. But given a better deal i think he may have stayed,,but oh well,,,its done and over with now and he went to another team and had a pro bowl year.

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by DWright

No no no, You don't offer a player more than hes worth especially one that never stayed healthy a whole season. Yes they have salary cap space right this second, but next year and the year after that money is going to start shrinking big time to keep the players they have right now. Andre Smith is going into a contract year where hes going to be asking for ALOT of money. At the same time they could be offering Gresham and Geno extensions because the next year is their contract year.

If you start playing players more than they are worth you get into salary cap problems like the Steelers.

Edit: Carson also screwed them out of being able to spend 11 million last season.

ill fix this for you,,,,what you mean is

"they start winning SBs like the steelers"

God i hate saying that,,,but truth is truth.

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Wise decision by this team. He is a player that had not proven he could stay healthy for an entire season. They had another top corner coming up for re-signing, they had an uncertain situation at QB and WR. Given the circumstances it was a good offer.

I swear some of you people act as if every core player they have is lost to free agency. One guy. One big name lost to free agency. Happens to the majority of teams every year.

Justin smith,,,eric steinbach,,TJ,,,JJ,,,willie anderson,,,yeah we seem to lose top notch players quite a bit,,,even worse half of them go to division rivals,,,for pete sake if your not going to get a good player resign,,at least try to make sure they dont go to a division foe.

[Nately120]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Wrong......the difference in my understanding was guaranteed money. So in essence the offers.were very close. One thing people such as you seem to leave out which was verified by JJ himself is that the uncertainty at QB played a part in his decision. Well, that and the fact that the Texans are just silly enough to provide soap and deoderant for their multimillionaire players. God forbid they have to buy their own.

Ugh, not this again. I get it, you are proud that Andy Dalton has to find the nearest Walgreens and buy his own damn shampoo when the Bengals fly to another part of the country. Bravo! That thrity-nine cent inconvenience will surely build the character needed to win multiple Super Bowls! Foolish Texans, MWA HA HA!

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by Nately120

Ugh, not this again. I get it, you are proud that Andy Dalton has to find the nearest Walgreens and buy his own damn shampoo when the Bengals fly to another part of the country. Bravo! That thrity-nine cent inconvenience will surely build the character needed to win multiple Super Bowls! Foolish Texans, MWA HA HA!

lol ya know?

cause millionares dont want to play for a team that doesnt give them head n shoulders to take care of their dandruff problem LOL

"WHAT,,,my squad dont wanna give me stuff for my BO,,and my dandruff???" " oh hell naw, im out,,gonna find me another team yo"

[BengalRugby]

it is called humility. What is he going to say to the question? Oh yeah I am the best coach in the world there is no one better.

You are not that naive so why do you play the part just to try and make a point?


I was speaking of Black Jesus's own opinion of the situation.


First you claim out of context, and when faced with your own stance of coaches knowing more, you claim humility. What is your source for knowing the difference?


Or are you citing naive as a red herring?

[Nately120]

Originally Posted by Dabo614

lol ya know?

cause millionares dont want to play for a team that doesnt give them head n shoulders to take care of their dandruff problem LOL

"WHAT,,,my squad dont wanna give me stuff for my BO,,and my dandruff???" " oh hell naw, im out,,gonna find me another team yo"

No one with a sane head on his shoulders (dandruff or not) is going to avoid Cincinnati because of Mike Brown's anti-free soap policy, but it's obvious that word gets around that the Bengals provide a less professional and accommodating environment than other NFL organizations.

I don't think it's the end of the world, but I'm not going to just say "**** it up and rent your own TV with your roommate at training camp you spoiled millionaires!" anymore than I'd say "**** it up and provide accommodations comparable to your competitors, Mike Brown you spoiled billionaire." For someone who is supposedly a good businessman, Mike Brown doesn't seem to care his franchise is presenting itself in a second-rate manner and as long as spoiled rotten millionaires provide the glut of NFL talent, perhaps he should change his ways a bit. Just an idea.

[BigPapaKain]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

...that didn't show up til he got here. We didn't have a problem with "criminals" until Marv got here. As for narcisisstic personalities, Chad got worse under Marv's watch. Belichick (for example) wouldn't deal with that crap. Marv did. Or maybe Chad didn't respect Marv enough to listen. That also sounds like a Marv problem.

Oh, you mean 'criminals' like Chris Henry - a guy that Marvin wanted gone but Mike Brown brought back under his nose. Or 'distractions' like Ochocinco who Marvin couldn't get rid of because Mike Brown kept bringing him back.

When your hands are tied by your owner/GM, you don't get too much say over who comes and goes.

But you go ahead and keep believing that those were all problems caused by Marvin and his inability to handle said personalities - it's not like it makes you look blinded by hate.

[whodey21]

Originally Posted by Nately120

No one with a sane head on his shoulders (dandruff or not) is going to avoid Cincinnati because of Mike Brown's anti-free soap policy, but it's obvious that word gets around that the Bengals provide a less professional and accommodating environment than other NFL organizations.

With P&G located in Cincinnati, you'd think they'd be able to work out a deal. Free stuff for the players in exchange for the right to say "Head & Shoulders, the official shampoo of the Cincinnati Bengals [insert pic of Maualuga & Peko here]" or "Old Spice: Smell like a fan, man."

[Bryan]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

No. We just realize that the Head Coach is not the mainreason for the team being "average".

A different head coach would not have gotten Mike Brown to spend more money last year. In the eyes of people like you Marvin would have been a better coach last year if Mike Brown had spent money for a couple of high quality OGs and we had won a playoff game.

You can't just judge a HC by his won lost record. Yhave to look at what he had to work with.

I will agree that Marv has to deal with Mike Brown the owner who was the quickest in history to get to 100 losses. That said I still don't think he's a good coach, average, but not good.

Originally Posted by Dabo614

Justin smith,,,eric steinbach,,TJ,,,JJ,,,willie anderson,,,yeah we seem to lose top notch players quite a bit,,,even worse half of them go to division rivals,,,for pete sake if your not going to get a good player resign,,at least try to make sure they dont go to a division foe.

I hate defending the FO but, Justin Smith had 2 sacks in 07 which is why we let him walk, besides, he's a better fit in the 3-4. Steinbach walking hurt, but he wasn't as amazing as some people claim. When TJ walked he was coming off of a season when he didn't even average 10 YPC, and went to Seattle and had a solid statistical year but it's saying something when Pete Carroll didn't want to keep him...the guy who just signed Antonio Bryant. Losing JJ was bad and still hurts, the rookie we drafted to replace him is injured and even though Leon Hall is healthy, he's not at the same level he used to play at yet he won't be until 2013. And we didn't let Willie walk, we cut him after he refused a pay cut.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by BengalRugby

it is called humility. What is he going to say to the question? Oh yeah I am the best coach in the world there is no one better.

You are not that naive so why do you play the part just to try and make a point?


I was speaking of Black Jesus's own opinion of the situation.


First you claim out of context, and when faced with your own stance of coaches knowing more, you claim humility. What is your source for knowing the difference?


Or are you citing naive as a red herring?

Did not think you would answer the question directly.