Burma's Mock vs 1

[Burma]

1. Dee Milliner, CB Alabama

Height: 6'1
Weight: 198
40: 4.36
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2014&genpos=CB

With no true pass rushing DE left at this point we take BPA and begin to drastically overhaul our secondary.

2. (Raiders) Robert Lester, S Alabama

Safety
Height: 6’2”
Weight: 210
40: 4.54
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2013&genpos=SS

Saftey by committee results in too many big plays as offenses attack favorable match ups. Lester is a complete safety who will help anchor this new secondary for years to come.

2. (Bengals) Montee Ball, RB Wisconsin

Height: 5’11”
Weight: 215
40: 4.57
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jiBNpAjpNI
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2013&genpos=RB

Lattimore and Bell are gone by the start of the 2nd round. Arkansas’ David and Texas A&M’s Michael present too many injury flags. Ball is a 3 down back who can do it all.

3. William Gholston, DE Michigan State

Height: 6’7”
Weight: 275
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRPtwR8Zwb8
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2014&genpos=DE

Questions about his motor and maturity drive his stock down. Disappearing acts offset massive talent that is apparent when he tries.

4. Alvin Bailey, G Arkansas

Height: 6’5”
Weight: 319
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2014&genpos=OG

5.( Bengals) Kenny Tate, OLB Maryland

Height 6’4”
Weight: 230
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...013&genpos=OLB

Play maker with odd past.

5 (Patriots) LaAdrian Waddle, OT/G Texas tech

Height: 6’6”
Weight: 332
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2013&genpos=OT

All Big 12 starting left tackle. Good agility and pass blocking.

6 or 7th (depending on what we gave for Mays).
Ezekiel Ansah, DE/OLB BYU

Height: 6'6"
Weight: 275

Little information available on the kid. He looks and plays like an MJ clone. Amazing first step and burst. Raw talent wise.

This draft, so far, seems very top heavy and not particularly deep where we need it. I would prefer to see us trade some of the later picks for players now. For example, our 4th for Marcus Cannon, give the Patriots 5th round pick for Knowshon, just seems more bang for the buck this way. I would love to see us package a 5th and a player to get Dequan Menzie from the Chiefs. He would immediately become Nelson's back up and press him for playing time.

[neek]

Your 1st four picks have me sold. It'll be interesting to see if your thoughts change by the end of the year.

[berserkerone88]

Not a Gholston fan. We already have him in Michael Johnson. I think we need a motor guy if we get a DE.

[Burma]

Originally Posted by neek

Your 1st four picks have me sold. It'll be interesting to see if your thoughts change by the end of the year.

I am sure they will, I am usually very bad with personall predictions . Prior to the start of this season I thought Gholston would be our guy. After 1 game and rewatching a few of last years I have already switched him up. based on what I am reading it seems I am not alone :)

[Burma]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

Not a Gholston fan. We already have him in Michael Johnson. I think we need a motor guy if we get a DE.

i know, this seems like a really bad DE year though. There looks like many good 3-4 DEs, but few pass rushing 4-3. I think your guy Werner is going to crack the top 15 based on every thing I am reading. Maybe there is some OLB that gets kicked down to be a stud DE later in the season. but for right now its feast or famine I think.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by Burma

i know, this seems like a really bad DE year though. There looks like many good 3-4 DEs, but few pass rushing 4-3. I think your guy Werner is going to crack the top 15 based on every thing I am reading. Maybe there is some OLB that gets kicked down to be a stud DE later in the season. but for right now its feast or famine I think.

I think this is a great year for DE.
I think you have 4 potential first round DE (true DE) a few guys who are likely first round 3-4 OLB but could do DE in a 4-3.
Montgomery, Jeffcoat, Werner, Lemonier, Okafor are all top talents IMO. Could really get the draft loaded at DE.

And guys like Hunt and Gholston who are raw athleticism but seem to lack consistency and production.

[Hammerstripes]

I really don't think I could get on board with a 1st round CB this year.

Leon Hall and Dre should be starters in 2013. I don't see what adding another would do for this team.

You also seem to have ignored our biggest need - WR. Until a #2 steps up (and someone very well could this year), I would be spending our first rounder on a WR.

[OSU725]

With the age of our current CBs I could see it being a need, I don't know about 1st round need but I guess that would depend on who is on the board.

I would be shocked if they went Safety that high, they have put a lot of money into Nelson, I think they are pretty high on Mays, and Myles looked very good in preseason (I would like to see him get some playing time).

I think our needs are going to depend on what happens. Andre is a FA, it is unknown if he will be back, if not and with the lack of depth on the OL I think OL (OT in particular) is a pretty big need. Another spot of concern is DE, both MJ and Geathers are FAs and while Dunlap has looked good while on the field he has not been healthy enough to depend on. Even if MJ is brought back I think DE is a big need.

RB will likely be a need as well, even if BJGE has a good year I can't say that I would not want to add some more talent to that position.

We also need to see how this WR position plays out this year.

[Burma]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

I think this is a great year for DE.
I think you have 4 potential first round DE (true DE) a few guys who are likely first round 3-4 OLB but could do DE in a 4-3.
Montgomery, Jeffcoat, Werner, Lemonier, Okafor are all top talents IMO. Could really get the draft loaded at DE.

Ok. I have just started to get a feel for the DEs this year so I am sure my opinion will change a bit.

Originally Posted by Hammerstripes

I really don't think I could get on board with a 1st round CB this year.

Leon Hall and Dre should be starters in 2013. I don't see what adding another would do for this team.

You also seem to have ignored our biggest need - WR. Until a #2 steps up (and someone very well could this year), I would be spending our first rounder on a WR.

I agree that hall and Dre should be starting in 2013. But Hobson seems to be floating the idea of Hall going to Safety and Zimmer wants the best defensive backs on the field, not certain positions it seems (which i agree with). Also the Cowboys game show cased just how deep a team has to be at corner in this league now. The Cowboy's #3 receiver had over 100 yds and 2 TDs.

Also i think our #2 WR is already on the team. Marvin Jones. I think he will break out significantly playing opposite of AJ. Also Sanu looks like the real deal. This draft is starting to remind me very much of when we got Chad and TJ in the same draft. Hopefully it doesn't turn out to be like the draft we got Simpson and caldwell.

Originally Posted by OSU725

With the age of our current CBs I could see it being a need, I don't know about 1st round need but I guess that would depend on who is on the board.

I would be shocked if they went Safety that high, they have put a lot of money into Nelson, I think they are pretty high on Mays, and Myles looked very good in preseason (I would like to see him get some playing time).

I think our needs are going to depend on what happens. Andre is a FA, it is unknown if he will be back, if not and with the lack of depth on the OL I think OL (OT in particular) is a pretty big need. Another spot of concern is DE, both MJ and Geathers are FAs and while Dunlap has looked good while on the field he has not been healthy enough to depend on. Even if MJ is brought back I think DE is a big need.

RB will likely be a need as well, even if BJGE has a good year I can't say that I would not want to add some more talent to that position.

We also need to see how this WR position plays out this year.

All good points. I think at this point, as evidenced by our DT selections, we are drafting best player available which to me, right now, is a CB. I "hope" they look at a safety this high. Nelson is good but the other safety spot is in flux. I think if our "strong" safety rotation gets exploited we look to get a do it all type of guy. no need to have the cover guy and the tackle guy seperated.

I also agree on the O line issue. Keep in kind though that Mike Brown has never been afraid to pay to keep his guys. I think if Andre puts a solid season together he will be extended with a fat contract. Haging said that I did look for a hig bruiser in the later rounds in case Andre walks.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Hammerstripes

I really don't think I could get on board with a 1st round CB this year.

Leon Hall and Dre should be starters in 2013. I don't see what adding another would do for this team.

You also seem to have ignored our biggest need - WR. Until a #2 steps up (and someone very well could this year), I would be spending our first rounder on a WR.

I agree that CB depth is needed (Clements & Newman won't be Bengals in 2013, most likely), but I don't think that a 1st rounder is warranted. Hall, Kirk, Allen, Pacman (extended), and Prater is a good start. Perhaps adding a 3rd or 5th round CB for competition. But PSer Lewis-Harris may develop nicely and fill this need. Going forward, I think that the Bengals keep 6 CBs & 4 Safeties on the roster.

As for WR2, I don't see the Bengals invested in a 1st round WR, because AJ's contract extension is going to be HUGE. $15 million per year.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by OSU725

With the age of our current CBs I could see it being a need, I don't know about 1st round need but I guess that would depend on who is on the board.

I would be shocked if they went Safety that high, they have put a lot of money into Nelson, I think they are pretty high on Mays, and Myles looked very good in preseason (I would like to see him get some playing time).

I think our needs are going to depend on what happens. Andre is a FA, it is unknown if he will be back, if not and with the lack of depth on the OL I think OL (OT in particular) is a pretty big need. Another spot of concern is DE, both MJ and Geathers are FAs and while Dunlap has looked good while on the field he has not been healthy enough to depend on. Even if MJ is brought back I think DE is a big need.

RB will likely be a need as well, even if BJGE has a good year I can't say that I would not want to add some more talent to that position.

We also need to see how this WR position plays out this year.

IMO, OT is one of our most deep positions, because the Bengals have Whit, Smith, & Collins. I foresee Smith getting extended. But worse case scenario, Collins could shift to RT in 2013. The Bengals would then need to draft a LT2 & RT2 (upgrade Roland, please). WTS, I still feel that Smith gets extended, and the Bengals will draft a RT2 upgrade.

I could easily see the Bengals trading back their 1st round pick (again) to secure an additional 3rd rounder. Then, with a later 1st round pick, I can see the Bengals drafting a SS or a Center.

Miles is basically a STer. Ultimately, I don't think that the Bengals trust Mays, because they are shifting Clements over in 3rd & long situations and matching Mays up one-on-one against a TE. If the Bengals trusted Mays, he wouldn't get trumped by Clements on ANY down. Upgrading the SS position, the Bengals could then still utilize Mays to neutralize TEs as a hybrid WILL/Slot CB/Safety.

[CinciREborn]

I am not sold on Ball.. I see Ball in the same manner I saw david decastro. Some one that looked good because of someone else. if there was no luck no one would know decastros name. If there was no Wisconsin line, no one would no balls name. Nothing is great about ball. I believe he is simply a product of Wisconsin line. Just like how Mike hart was because of Michigan's Line when he played for the wolverines.

[Burma]

Originally Posted by mulligan

I agree that CB depth is needed (Clements & Newman won't be Bengals in 2013, most likely), but I don't think that a 1st rounder is warranted. Hall, Kirk, Allen, Pacman (extended), and Prater is a good start. Perhaps adding a 3rd or 5th round CB for competition. .

We do have a recent history of going with CB in the first round in back to back drafts. This could just as easily end up being a DE pick though if they feel its BPA at the time.

Originally Posted by CinciREborn

I am not sold on Ball.. I see Ball in the same manner I saw david decastro. Some one that looked good because of someone else. if there was no luck no one would know decastros name. If there was no Wisconsin line, no one would no balls name. Nothing is great about ball. I believe he is simply a product of Wisconsin line. Just like how Mike hart was because of Michigan's Line when he played for the wolverines.

This is a career year for Ball. We will find out if he is really the stud we saw the last few years or if he is a product of that line. He averaged 3.75 ypc against Boise State in his first game without Zeitler and Konz. 32 carries for 120 yds and 1 TD, 3 recpt for 31 yrds. And that was with the entire Boise D keying on him. There is no one else on that team this year besides him.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Burma

We do have a recent history of going with CB in the first round in back to back drafts. This could just as easily end up being a DE pick though if they feel its BPA at the time.

Curious? Having a "recent history" of going CBs in back-to-back drafts implies that it has occured more than once. Yet, outside of Joseph & Hall being drafted in back-to-back drafts, the Bengals have NEVER had CB 1st round back-to-back drafts (going all the way back to 1968). Though, LB has ('90 & '91 & '97 & '98).

Leon Hall is getting paid $8.5 million per year.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnat...als/leon-hall/

Dre Kirkpatrick is getting paid $2.0 million per year.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnat...e-kirkpatrick/

Wow! Kirkpatrick is only costing about $2 million per year! That changes my perspective about the cost approach.

Still, it would be tough to get Hall, Kirkpatrick, & a 1st round rookie CB on the field consistantly enough to justify the opportunity cost of upgrading a different position (e.g. SS, SAM, DE, C, RB, WR).

[Burma]

Originally Posted by mulligan

Curious? Having a "recent history" of going CBs in back-to-back drafts implies that it has occured more than once. Yet, outside of Joseph & Hall being drafted in back-to-back drafts, the Bengals have NEVER had CB 1st round back-to-back drafts (going all the way back to 1968). Though, LB has ('90 & '91 & '97 & '98).

Recent history in regards to Joseph and Hall. But your right its not an extensive history.

Originally Posted by mulligan

Leon Hall is getting paid $8.5 million per year.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnat...als/leon-hall/

Dre Kirkpatrick is getting paid $2.0 million per year.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnat...e-kirkpatrick/

Wow! Kirkpatrick is only costing about $2 million per year! That changes my perspective about the cost approach.

Got to love the rookie salary cap. That's why i think if given the chance, it would be a good idea to stock up them in this passing heavy league.

Originally Posted by mulligan

Still, it would be tough to get Hall, Kirkpatrick, & a 1st round rookie CB on the field consistantly enough to justify the opportunity cost of upgrading a different position (e.g. SS, SAM, DE, C, RB, WR).

With the amount of time we spent in the nickle defense last year we could get both a new CB and new Safety a great deal of playing time.
______________Nelson_____________________ Lester
Hall __ Milliner______Maualuga_____Burfict_______Kirkpatri ck

(stupid lack of formatting)

Call it a big nickle package