Official 2012 Reds Thread

[Ali]

Originally Posted by Boomerdaulton21

I'm at somewhat of an agreeance with you but it's been since 1990 since we've got to crack open the bubbly!! Stubbs is just not cutting it...Cairo is done...Valdez is horrible...there is room for him no matter where we put him...he is ready and as far as the 40 don't see that being a problem..we are a young enough team that is gaining experience by each game. I don't see rule 5 being an issue at all.

It's always a possibility, lol. But Valdez is OK defensively and provides relief for the middle infielders and Cairo is still a pretty good off-the-bench AB (8 hits so far this year and 6 RBI in 39 chances.) and is also batting .258 with RISP which I would bet is one of the best of our position players.

Not to say either has been great, but they're decent as one of the last few men on the bench. My biggest gripe is that these players will usually bat 1st or 2nd in the lineup where we need guys to get on. I joked with some Reds fans at a recent game that this was Dusty's way of "handicapping Votto."

It might as well be as Stubbs & Cozart have been horrible so far this year at the top of the lineup. I think Cozart can turn it around, but imo it is best to put Stubbs as the 8 and hope that the opposing pitchers walk him to get to our pitcher, Hanigan or BP as 2 to get on base ahead of Votto and then fix the 1-spot with Cozart and more protection at 2 or jsut putting Phillips there.

[Ali]

BTW He's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack (but not starting):

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/...s_cin&c_id=cin

I'm guessing he'll be a PH sometime in the game, however.

[dr1441]

Originally Posted by Ali

I would, but, at the same time it goes beyond the FP. ROlen just gets to more balls and makes more plays than Frazier does. That's not to say Frazier is a bad fielder, but Rolen does what BP does at 2B which makes them elite fielders: They can make plays that most people at their position can't.

Ali your little man syndrome about thinking you know everything about baseball is kind of sad.

Even when people pull out stats that show you that when you say Rolen and Frazier are putting up similar you are dead wrong.

While you are correct Rolen has been hitting better as of late, he isn't putting up nearly the numbers or clutch hits that Frazier are.

If you want to try to be known as the "stats" guy, at least get your stuff straight.

[Ali]

Originally Posted by dr1441

Ali your little man syndrome about thinking you know everything about baseball is kind of sad.

Even when people pull out stats that show you that when you say Rolen and Frazier are putting up similar you are dead wrong.

While you are correct Rolen has been hitting better as of late, he isn't putting up nearly the numbers or clutch hits that Frazier are.

If you want to try to be known as the "stats" guy, at least get your stuff straight.

Little man syndrome? Dude, you've posted like 6 times in teh last month and just posted factually inaccurate information. The stats are on here, the numbers don't lie.

The fact that you think you know more than me is whatever. Believe what you want. But the fact that you will only compare with numbers that favor you and in a shorter span is ludicrous. Then to go on and essentially allude to knowing more than a major league manager and former player who has likely been involved in baseball at a professional level for longer than you've been alive is quite asinine.

[7sLefty]

Originally Posted by Ali

It's always a possibility, lol. But Valdez is OK defensively and provides relief for the middle infielders and Cairo is still a pretty good off-the-bench AB (8 hits so far this year and 6 RBI in 39 chances.) and is also batting .258 with RISP which I would bet is one of the best of our position players.

Not to say either has been great, but they're decent as one of the last few men on the bench. My biggest gripe is that these players will usually bat 1st or 2nd in the lineup where we need guys to get on. I joked with some Reds fans at a recent game that this was Dusty's way of "handicapping Votto."

It might as well be as Stubbs & Cozart have been horrible so far this year at the top of the lineup. I think Cozart can turn it around, but imo it is best to put Stubbs as the 8 and hope that the opposing pitchers walk him to get to our pitcher, Hanigan or BP as 2 to get on base ahead of Votto and then fix the 1-spot with Cozart and more protection at 2 or jsut putting Phillips there.

If Stubbs were to be put in the lineup I would put him at 7...hanigan makes just as good as contact as any on the team. I see you pulling out the numbers in all but I'm not convinced with Cairo....outside of Paul and lud when he wasn't starting heisey as well no other bench guy cuts it....Frazier and rolen don't count bc they rotate more than often.I do agree that cozart hasn't been great but still way more productive than Stubbs.

[Ali]

This is a crazy stat that came up on Gameday:

"That was pitch number 45 for Mat Latos; his effectiveness may start to slipping, as he holds opposing batters to a .199 average in the first 45 pitches but they hit .303 on him after that."

Of course as a player throws more and more the opposition is typically better against them and they start to get more worn down. But that large of a gap is bit worrisome. Here's hoping that the 1st month and a half have skewed these numbers a bit.

[7sLefty]

Originally Posted by Ali

This is a crazy stat that came up on Gameday:

"That was pitch number 45 for Mat Latos; his effectiveness may start to slipping, as he holds opposing batters to a .199 average in the first 45 pitches but they hit .303 on him after that."

Of course as a player throws more and more the opposition is typically better against them and they start to get more worn down. But that large of a gap is bit worrisome. Here's hoping that the 1st month and a half have skewed these numbers a bit.

Well those stats maybe true but he pitched out of jams tonight...he's a gamer..love his intensity!!! We need that bad boy type...I think he will be fine....makes a mistake at times leaving the ball up but for being a pitcher at GABP it's not an easy task.

[Ali]

Originally Posted by Boomerdaulton21

Well those stats maybe true but he pitched out of jams tonight...he's a gamer..love his intensity!!! We need that bad boy type...I think he will be fine....makes a mistake at times leaving the ball up but for being a pitcher at GABP it's not an easy task.

Yeah, and today he got lucky to get out of some of those jams. I will take it, though, as he had some really bad luck to start the year.

But all told, he's having a great year already at 12 wins. Could be another 15 game winner for us and should maintain a sub-3.5 ERA (My guess is it will be between 3.3 and 3.7 (that's 3.5 +/- .2) by end of year and likely below 3.5).

That would be terrific for our #2 pitcher and would make that trade COMPLETELY worth it as he gives us a 2nd ace for our 3 or 4 man rotation in October.

Not to mention that the "weak link" on our post-season pitching staff would end up being our #3...Bronson Arroyo.

Not a bad #3 out there =)

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Reds magic number is at 18!!!

[7sLefty]

Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzar

Reds magic number is at 18!!!

looking forward to seeing the scramble in our lineup pro votto

[Ali]

[dr1441]

Originally Posted by Ali

Little man syndrome? Dude, you've posted like 6 times in teh last month and just posted factually inaccurate information. The stats are on here, the numbers don't lie.

The fact that you think you know more than me is whatever. Believe what you want. But the fact that you will only compare with numbers that favor you and in a shorter span is ludicrous. Then to go on and essentially allude to knowing more than a major league manager and former player who has likely been involved in baseball at a professional level for longer than you've been alive is quite asinine.

Guess I am not really sure how I alluded to knowing more then a manager by saying that Todd Frazier makes our team a better lineup then Rolen does if we make it to the playoffs. Or how I have posted factually inaccurate things when I said Frazier in the lineup is easily a better lineup then with Rolen in it. The numbers that were posted right after you tried to act like you know all proved it.

But when you say "wrong......again" that means you take the better then you approach, as you usually try to do. None the less, like usual, you were proven wrong again and then tried to make up other facts to prove you are right.

Then you back up your claims saying they are hitting about the same for the month of July but yet in Aug. Frazier is easily the better hitter and then numbers show that.

When presented with the numbers of Todd Frazier hitting better then Rolen, you decided to not only ignore them you completely went off topic and said that you have to take into account the fielding zone of a player. While you are correct, you must take that into account, Todd Frazier has easily been the better player this year as well as the last few months.

Post correct information and then try to make a claim as being the smart stat guy before calling others out, is what I am "alluding" to.

[dr1441]

Reds lineup for Joey's first night back. I can't wait.

Phillips
Heisey
Votto
Ludwick
Bruce
Frazier
Navarro
Gregorious
Leake

I hope this is the lineup that will be starting in the playoffs.

Phillips-2nd
Heisey- CF
Votto- 1st
Ludwick- LF
Bruce- RF
Frazier- 3rd
Cozart- SS
Hanigan- C
Cueto- P

That would make for a heck of a lineup.

[Paul from Dayton]

Originally Posted by dr1441

Phillips-2nd
Heisey- CF
Votto- 1st
Ludwick- LF
Bruce- RF
Frazier- 3rd
Cozart- SS
Hanigan- C
Cueto- P

That would make for a heck of a lineup.

Cozart at 2 Hanigan at 7 and Stubbs in center and batting 8th...

He is our best defensive CF and batting 8 is more reasonable...

[NashvilleBengalfan]

Oh where Oh where has the reds offense gone?

[7sLefty]

Originally Posted by Paul from Dayton

Cozart at 2 Hanigan at 7 and Stubbs in center and batting 8th...

He is our best defensive CF and batting 8 is more reasonable...

Come on man!!! I loved Stubbs but he has played his way to the bench no doubt
1.) Phillips
2.) heisey
3.)votto
4.)Ludwig
5.)Bruce
6.)Frazier
7.)hanigan
8.)cozart
9.) cueto

[Ali]

Originally Posted by Paul from Dayton

Cozart at 2 Hanigan at 7 and Stubbs in center and batting 8th...

He is our best defensive CF and batting 8 is more reasonable...

That is exactly what the Reds radio said will happen starting tomorrow and moving forward. Which I'm ok with because of Stubbs's defense and speed as well as the great potential for a hit and run with Hani batting behind Stubbs.

Phillips - 4
Cozart - 6
Votto - 3
Ludwick - 7
Bruce - 9
Rolen - 5
Stubbs - 8
Hanigan - 2
Pitcher - 1

[Helldog]

Originally Posted by Boomerdaulton21

Come on man!!! I loved Stubbs but he has played his way to the bench no doubt
1.) Phillips
2.) heisey
3.)votto
4.)Ludwig
5.)Bruce
6.)Frazier
7.)hanigan
8.)cozart
9.) cueto

His D is too nice. Aswell as his speed when he doesn't strike out.

[7sLefty]

Originally Posted by Whodey23

His D is too nice. Aswell as his speed when he doesn't strike out.

His speed is great...but he doesn't have to run back to the bench when he strikes out!!! I think if he made contact more and his BA was still low we wouldn't be having this conversation!!! He doesn't bunt well ...he will lead the league again in strikeouts by a heavy margin and he missed a little time too.

[Ali]

Originally Posted by Boomerdaulton21

His speed is great...but he doesn't have to run back to the bench when he strikes out!!! I think if he made contact more and his BA was still low we wouldn't be having this conversation!!! He doesn't bunt well ...he will lead the league again in strikeouts by a heavy margin and he missed a little time too.

He will lead the league again?

Will?

There are 5 guys ahead of him at the moment in strikeouts in the NL.

Also, Dunn is 4 away from 200...

Ouch.

[Morning Star]

Are they gonna not let Leake be in the playoff roster..That is what I heard..Anybody else heard this?

[whodey1302]

Originally Posted by Morning Star

Are they gonna not let Leake be in the playoff roster..That is what I heard..Anybody else heard this?

I think it's just speculation at this point but he shouldn't be on the playoff roster. He struggles out of the bullpen and the Reds will go to a 4 man rotation.

[crazyjdawg]

Originally Posted by whodey1302

I think it's just speculation at this point but he shouldn't be on the playoff roster. He struggles out of the bullpen and the Reds will go to a 4 man rotation.

I mean there's no question that he is the weak link in the rotation...

I'd be pretty ****** if Leake pitched a single game in the playoffs.

[dr1441]

Originally Posted by crazyjdawg

I mean there's no question that he is the weak link in the rotation...

I'd be pretty ****** if Leake pitched a single game in the playoffs.

I think they should keep him on and use him as a long relief guy.

If he says he doesn't want to do it then so be it. But tell him that is his only way of making the roster in the playoffs.

If not give his spot to Billy Hamilton and let him run for guys in tight spots.

[whodey1302]

Originally Posted by dr1441

I think they should keep him on and use him as a long relief guy.

If he says he doesn't want to do it then so be it. But tell him that is his only way of making the roster in the playoffs.

If not give his spot to Billy Hamilton and let him run for guys in tight spots.

He has not shown that he can pitch out of the bullpen. And Billy Hamilton isn't eligible for the playoff roster either. He would've had to be on the 25 man roster at midnight on Aug 31st. I just don't think he makes it.