Official 2012 Reds Thread

[7sLefty]

Originally Posted by Ali

Bronson Arroyo: 46-38 3.98 ERA 1.256 WHIP
Mike Leake: 18-12 4.66 ERA 1.383 WHIP
Mat Latos: 8-3 3.35 ERA 1.108 WHIP



Edinson Volquez?
15-9 4.49 1.403


Judging by those numbers alone, you can see that Edinson was actually better at home than on the road. Oh, and was the great beneficiary of run-saving defense and run-producing offense.

And would be our 5th starter. And how much better Latos has been is scary.





Want to try again so I can, yet again, prove you wrong? Or will you just admit that Volquez is a bad pitcher. He had one good year.

4 years ago.

And back to the overall trade itself!!!!! It wasn't volquez for latos.....we lost Alonso .277 avg 57 RBI grandal .277avg in limited play....and looking at our catchers not named hanigan ....mez was batting .212 Navarro I like but where's he been...mez got way too much playing time!!! Cmon man I was at the 1990 world series when you were 3. I appreciate your love for the reds but googling players stats to actually watching the games is not the way to go about an argument!!!!

[whodey1302]

Originally Posted by Boomerdaulton21

And back to the overall trade itself!!!!! It wasn't volquez for latos.....we lost Alonso .277 avg 57 RBI grandal .277avg in limited play....and looking at our catchers not named hanigan ....mez was batting .212 Navarro I like but where's he been...mez got way too much playing time!!! Cmon man I was at the 1990 world series when you were 3. I appreciate your love for the reds but googling players stats to actually watching the games is not the way to go about an argument!!!!

The Reds got the better end of the trade for this season and frankly that's all that matters. And you're argument about you being at the world series in 90 so somehow that makes your opinion have more merit is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

[Ali]

Originally Posted by Boomerdaulton21

And back to the overall trade itself!!!!! It wasn't volquez for latos.....we lost Alonso .277 avg 57 RBI grandal .277avg in limited play....and looking at our catchers not named hanigan ....mez was batting .212 Navarro I like but where's he been...mez got way too much playing time!!! Cmon man I was at the 1990 world series when you were 3. I appreciate your love for the reds but googling players stats to actually watching the games is not the way to go about an argument!!!!

You're like a non-stop episode of imbecile.

I pull up statistics to prove my point. After you throw one ridiculously bloated statistic to back your horrible opinion. All there is to it is that I actually do and have watched the Reds very closely since 1995. You're right, I was 3 in 1990...Congrats. But the fact that you bring up 3 players who would, right now be: a long-reliever/#5 pitcher, a september call-up and a backup 1B (aka benchwarmer) to our dominant-in-his-last-20-starts SP is ludicrous.

Say you watch the games all you want, but your "opinions" clearly give away you just jumped on the bandwagon.

[RoarOfTheBengal]

Originally Posted by Boomerdaulton21

And back to the overall trade itself!!!!! It wasn't volquez for latos.....we lost Alonso .277 avg 57 RBI grandal .277avg in limited play....and looking at our catchers not named hanigan ....mez was batting .212 Navarro I like but where's he been...mez got way too much playing time!!! Cmon man I was at the 1990 world series when you were 3. I appreciate your love for the reds but googling players stats to actually watching the games is not the way to go about an argument!!!!

The Reds got the better end of the trade.

There's no questioning it.

[TommyC]

Originally Posted by Boomerdaulton21

So you proved me wrong huh...wow that just went over my head....it's your opinion and thats all it is.....15-9 is still fine by me....volquez would be number 4 starter if it were me.....MY OPINION !!!! Like I said...Bailey has been pitching just as good as anyone along side cueto and latos!!!! But before this season please let me hear your argument that Bailey was on his way out the door or close to it...look had a great rookie yr in minimal starts....haven't seen much from him from a pitching standpoint!!! I'm very mixed about arroyo....his type of pitching is a good change of pace so we need him for that...but not overly impressed!!!! Between arroyo leake Bailey and volquez I would go Bailey volquez arroyo leake!!!! They've all been inconsistent so I can do this all night on you proving me wrong
P.s. - I've seen way worse in cincy than volquez....not too many all stars that I know of that can be considered bad...but thanks for the laugh....keep drinking the haterade

The worst p/u by the Reds imo was Eric Milton.

[7sLefty]

Originally Posted by TommyC

The worst p/u by the Reds imo was Eric Milton.

Agreed.....we paid him like 17 mil and he came into GABP having gave up the most hr the yr prior with a pretty high era....what were we thinking!!!!

[7sLefty]

Originally Posted by RoarOfTheBengal

The Reds got the better end of the trade.

There's no questioning it.

I don't disagree....just know that it wasn't volquez for latos....latos I think has pitched better than we thought he would!!! It's hard for me to like losing grandal and Alonso

[7sLefty]

Originally Posted by Ali

You're like a non-stop episode of imbecile.

I pull up statistics to prove my point. After you throw one ridiculously bloated statistic to back your horrible opinion. All there is to it is that I actually do and have watched the Reds very closely since 1995. You're right, I was 3 in 1990...Congrats. But the fact that you bring up 3 players who would, right now be: a long-reliever/#5 pitcher, a september call-up and a backup 1B (aka benchwarmer) to our dominant-in-his-last-20-starts SP is ludicrous.

Say you watch the games all you want, but your "opinions" clearly give away you just jumped on the bandwagon.

I know you... The guy that never played a sport and hides behind a computer with numbers....open your eyes...your argument is ********!!! The trade wasn't latos for volquez....there were other players involved!!!!! I'm glad we have latos over volquez but losing the other two did not set well with me and if latos hadn't delivered like he has you would be trying to google about another team with numbers....so you watched the reds closely when you were like 8???? Given your knowledge now I'll let your words pass and we can call it you just not knowing any better

[Ali]

[Ron Mexico]

Originally Posted by RoarOfTheBengal

The Reds got the better end of the trade.

There's no questioning it.

Correct.

[Ron Mexico]

Given the Cardinals win today as well, the Reds now get to clinch the division at home. Now hopefully they get it done with a win!

[Ali]

Originally Posted by Boomerdaulton21

I know you... The guy that never played a sport and hides behind a computer with numbers....open your eyes...your argument is ********!!! The trade wasn't latos for volquez....there were other players involved!!!!! I'm glad we have latos over volquez but losing the other two did not set well with me and if latos hadn't delivered like he has you would be trying to google about another team with numbers....so you watched the reds closely when you were like 8???? Given your knowledge now I'll let your words pass and we can call it you just not knowing any better

I've, and I'm not joking here, had at least 10 different people giving me props in this thread alone and at least 4 saying they read just to see my opinions.

You have had at least 5 people, myself included, calling you out on some of your "ridiculous" opinion. This will be the last time I quote or comment on any of your asinine posts. Your abuse of the English language is pathetic and your knowledge of the Reds and baseball as a whole is nothing short of laughable.

I will warn you of one thing: The more you post, the more you show how (un-)intelligent of a fan you truly are.

[Ali]

Originally Posted by Johnny Cupcakes

Given the Cardinals win today as well, the Reds now get to clinch the division at home. Now hopefully they get it done with a win!

The Redlegs are right on the cusp! I also want to note all of the award races and where I believe they stand on the:

Cy Young:
According to This ESPN article the Reds have 2 candidates: Aroldis Chapman & Johnny Cueto. I don't think Chapman is any longer in that conversation but he will get votes. IMO, this is how they currently rank:
1. R.A. Dickey: 18-6 2.67 ERA 205K
2. Gio Gonzalez: 19-8 2.95 ERA 196K
3. Johnny Cueto: 17-9 2.92 ERA 157K
4. Kyle Lohse: 15-3 2.71 ERA 129K
5. Matt Cain: 15-5 2.86 ERA 185K

Cueto still has a shot, but he will likely need to get to at least 19 wins and have two great games to get his ERA down. His low strikeout number is what is also hurting him and, imo, it was his 3 starts ago but now is Dickey's award to lose.

MVP: This is the one statistic that we will not have anyone challenging for. The reason I say that is that for Joey Votto to become a statistical qualifier, he will need 6 PAs per game. Considering it took extra innings and a lot of offense to get him that today, I don't think he will be able to qualify and therefore won't win.

Gold Glovers:
Brandon Phillips - Virtual Lock
Joey Votto - Possible
Arroyo/Leake - I think each of them has a shot and Leake should get a big look
Scott Rolen - Great possibility
Ryan Hanigan - No major name hurts, but he's one of the better all-around catchers in MLB
Jay Bruce - Unlikely because he's a RF and the errors this year, but still a chance due to reputation.

Silver Sluggers:
P - Mike Leake
1B - Joey Votto
2B - Brandon Phillips

Delivery Man of the year:
Just hand it to Aroldis Chapman last month.

Manager of the Year:
Hard to argue against Davey Johnson...But if Dusty has the most wins, he'll be in the convo.

Rookie of the Year:
Todd Frazier has a shot, but Bryce Harper will win on name alone (see Soto from a few years ago over Votto...) and Wade Miley is the likely winner with some outstanding pitching statistics (15-10 3.10 ERA 127K)

[Bengals Mike]

Originally Posted by Johnny Cupcakes

Given the Cardinals win today as well, the Reds now get to clinch the division at home. Now hopefully they get it done with a win!

I noticed the same thing with the Cardinals, it's better to clinch and celebrate at home with a crowd than in a locker room on the road

and the Cardinals have only played 2 of these 9 games so far but when the wildcard race is tightening by the day and the Cardinals have a schedule with Astros Cubs Astros in that stretch, they better take advantage of a schedule like that and I may sound crazy to say they deserve to make if they can beat those team but who can say they deserve to make it if they don't beat teams like that? the Phillies looked like they were gonna sneak in until they managed to lose 3 of 4 to Houston on the weekend, now the Brewers may bt the closest thing to a backdoor to make it but with that stretch the Cardinals have, the Brewers playoffs are gonna start early when they have Washington and Cincinnati on their schedule in the next week

[pookdogg7]

Originally Posted by Ali

Rookie of the Year:
Todd Frazier has a shot, but Bryce Harper will win on name alone (see Soto from a few years ago over Votto...) and Wade Miley is the likely winner with some outstanding pitching statistics (15-10 3.10 ERA 127K)

This annoys me to no end (edging out someone on name alone). If the fans voted on it, fine, I'd accept their ignorance, but baseball writers don't have that excuse.

I guess not much can be expected from them either though, back in 2008 (the same year Votto lost to Soto), Volquez received 3 second-place votes despite no longer being a rookie under the award's own definition of a rookie. With only 32 voters, that's almost 10% of them that apparently have no clue what the definition of rookie for the award even is....what a joke.

[7sLefty]

Originally Posted by Ali

I've, and I'm not joking here, had at least 10 different people giving me props in this thread alone and at least 4 saying they read just to see my opinions.

You have had at least 5 people, myself included, calling you out on some of your "ridiculous" opinion. This will be the last time I quote or comment on any of your asinine posts. Your abuse of the English language is pathetic and your knowledge of the Reds and baseball as a whole is nothing short of laughable.

I will warn you of one thing: The more you post, the more you show how (un-)intelligent of a fan you truly are.

Awww you have a fan club....u look to be about a 100 lbs dripping wet
I notice you get off on people giving you props but here's the thing....you came on here rambling about the trade....I called you out on the trade not being a straight up trade volquez for latos ....yet you continue to google more stats...so hilarious...that's the difference between guys who have actually played the game and guys who read about it online or in the paper!!!! I will say it once again....as of now the trade looks to be in our favor...at least for this yr...and that's bc latos pitched better than anyone expected, but knowing the reds fans around here...just like bengals...they give up on their teams and the minute things go south you will be writing about how you can't believe we gave up these players for basically one guy!!!!

[whodey1302]

Originally Posted by Ali

Gold Glovers:
Brandon Phillips - Virtual Lock
Joey Votto - Possible
Arroyo/Leake - I think each of them has a shot and Leake should get a big look
Scott Rolen - Great possibility
Ryan Hanigan - No major name hurts, but he's one of the better all-around catchers in MLB
Jay Bruce - Unlikely because he's a RF and the errors this year, but still a chance due to reputation.

I don't think Phillips is a lock for the Gold Glove. Considering the errorless streak (although I believe it's a sham) that Darwin Barney is on, I look for him to likely win the award over Phillips. I'm not saying that I agree with it, but it is what it is.

[whodey1302]

Originally Posted by Boomerdaulton21

Awww you have a fan club....u look to be about a 100 lbs dripping wet
I notice you get off on people giving you props but here's the thing....you came on here rambling about the trade....I called you out on the trade not being a straight up trade volquez for latos ....yet you continue to google more stats...so hilarious...that's the difference between guys who have actually played the game and guys who read about it online or in the paper!!!! I will say it once again....as of now the trade looks to be in our favor...at least for this yr...and that's bc latos pitched better than anyone expected, but knowing the reds fans around here...just like bengals...they give up on their teams and the minute things go south you will be writing about how you can't believe we gave up these players for basically one guy!!!!

Playing baseball or not playing baseball has absolutely nothing to do with evaluating a trade. You're showing your true colors yet again. This trade will ALWAYS be in our favor. Even if Alonso goes on to hit .350, Volquez wins the Cy Young, and Grandal is the next Johnny Bench.

Mat Latos is 24 years old, and we control his contract for the next 3 years I believe. Volquez has always been wildly inconsistent. Alonso can ONLY play first base and you don't replace a league MVP with a guy who "could be good soon." As Ali mentioned, Grandal would have been a September call up at best on this team.

The only reason you are even mentioning him is because of the baseball that YOU WATCH. Playing organized baseball has not helped you watch SportsCenter and see Grandal getting playing time. The Padres had injuries at the Catcher position and that's why he's with the big league club.

[Ali]

Originally Posted by whodey1302

I don't think Phillips is a lock for the Gold Glove. Considering the errorless streak (although I believe it's a sham) that Darwin Barney is on, I look for him to likely win the award over Phillips. I'm not saying that I agree with it, but it is what it is.

'

Well, you will have to look at the spectacular plays he makes as award-winning. You also have BP's errorless streak prior to a few weeks ago, his NL-leading UZR (11.4 vs. Barney's 5.1) as well as being 3rd overall in FP (.992 .001 behind league leader O-Dog and an almost tie with Neil Walker) I think he'll get the award.

And don't forgot other non-factors that somehow play a factor in voting: Hitting, team winning and name recognition.

Originally Posted by pookdogg7

This annoys me to no end (edging out someone on name alone). If the fans voted on it, fine, I'd accept their ignorance, but baseball writers don't have that excuse.

I guess not much can be expected from them either though, back in 2008 (the same year Votto lost to Soto), Volquez received 3 second-place votes despite no longer being a rookie under the award's own definition of a rookie. With only 32 voters, that's almost 10% of them that apparently have no clue what the definition of rookie for the award even is....what a joke.

I absolutely agree, which is why I brought up the whole Soto thing as he had no business winning it that year when you consider how well Joey played and how he had Soto beat in virtually every number.

The Volquez thing was just flat out hilarious, imo.

[Ali]

What a strange lineup:

Lineup 9/20Reds
Xavier Paul LF, Miguel Cairo 1B, Henry Rodriguez 2B, Todd Frazier 3B, Chris Heisey RF, Denis Phipps CF, Ryan Hanigan C, Didi Gregorius SS, (Johnny Cueto P)

[XenoMorph]

So is Stubbs slump over? now that he got a game winning hit?

[Helldog]

Originally Posted by Ali

What a strange lineup:

Lineup 9/20Reds
Xavier Paul LF, Miguel Cairo 1B, Henry Rodriguez 2B, Todd Frazier 3B, Chris Heisey RF, Denis Phipps CF, Ryan Hanigan C, Didi Gregorius SS, (Johnny Cueto P)

Wow that is strange. Where do you find the starting line up and how much time before the games do they usually put them out?

[Helldog]

Originally Posted by BengalsFan024

So is Stubbs slump over? now that he got a game winning hit?

Uhhh, I'm praying.

Hopefully it gave him the boost of confidence he needed but I'm not necessarily holding my breath either.

[Ali]

Originally Posted by Whodey23

Wow that is strange. Where do you find the starting line up and how much time before the games do they usually put them out?

If you're on twitter, Mark Sheldon posts them a couple hours before the game.

I personally have always used rotoinfo.com and clicked under "MLB Lineups." I use this for all my sports, haha...But you can usually find them posted 3-4 hours before first pitch.

[Ron Mexico]

Originally Posted by Ali

What a strange lineup:

Lineup 9/20Reds
Xavier Paul LF, Miguel Cairo 1B, Henry Rodriguez 2B, Todd Frazier 3B, Chris Heisey RF, Denis Phipps CF, Ryan Hanigan C, Didi Gregorius SS, (Johnny Cueto P)

They're trying to give the Cubs a chance...