Unarmed college student shot and killed by campus security

[SunsetBengal]

As you can read, the 18 year old was naked, and acting strangely, but he was only 135 pounds and unarmed. I guess they don't believe in mace in South Alabama...


http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...-asks-why?lite

[BengalRugby]

The officer is clearly a hero.


He risked possible human interaction and met such interaction with the only reasonable course of action. Deadly force.


Statues will be erected to his cowardice and children will forever know police are inherently dirty and inclined to covering up such action...


Toledo has has it's share of heroes shooting motorcyclists from behind, and unexplained deaths of people in custody, minus reports of said people being in choke/sleeper holds...




The police need policed 24/7. Too much authority and too many bullies with a badge.

[SunsetBengal]

Originally Posted by BengalRugby

The officer is clearly a hero.


He risked possible human interaction and met such interaction with the only reasonable course of action. Deadly force.


Statues will be erected to his cowardice and children will forever know police are inherently dirty and inclined to covering up such action...


Toledo has has it's share of heroes shooting motorcyclists from behind, and unexplained deaths of people in custody, minus reports of said people being in choke/sleeper holds...




The police need policed 24/7. Too much authority and too many bullies with a badge.

This wasn't even the actual police, just campus security. Campus freaking security.

When I was young at college, plenty of people got stupid messed up and acted rather bizarre. Our campus security were pretty friendly, most disturbances were settled with conversation, only a couple that I can recall actually resulted in force, either physical restraint or in extreme cases...mace.

You said it right when you mentioned cowardice. Only a true, yellow stripped coward would pull his gun at the sight of a 135 pound, naked youth, acting in a challenging manner. Heck, our security would have laughed, and told the lad to go sleep it off.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by SunsetBengal

This wasn't even the actual police, just campus security. Campus freaking security.

When I was young at college, plenty of people got stupid messed up and acted rather bizarre. Our campus security were pretty friendly, most disturbances were settled with conversation, only a couple that I can recall actually resulted in force, either physical restraint or in extreme cases...mace.

You said it right when you mentioned cowardice. Only a true, yellow stripped coward would pull his gun at the sight of a 135 pound, naked youth, acting in a challenging manner. Heck, our security would have laughed, and told the lad to go sleep it off.

When I was in school we had a lot of campus cops who had some serious "little man syndrome" about not being "real" cops. Took things way too seriously.

I stopped to tie my shoe outside of my dorm before heading up 4 flights of stairs and a campus cop was inside and just flung the door open and about smacked me right in the face. I looked at him like WTF? It was an all glass door and Im not a slight man. Hard to miss. He tried to question me about being drunk. He got offended when I said you almost hit me in the face with a door because you werent looking. Stuff like this happens all over now. They feel like they need to pound their chest to feel like "real" cops.

[coachmcneil71]

Originally Posted by SunsetBengal

This wasn't even the actual police, just campus security. Campus freaking security.

When I was young at college, plenty of people got stupid messed up and acted rather bizarre. Our campus security were pretty friendly, most disturbances were settled with conversation, only a couple that I can recall actually resulted in force, either physical restraint or in extreme cases...mace.

You said it right when you mentioned cowardice. Only a true, yellow stripped coward would pull his gun at the sight of a 135 pound, naked youth, acting in a challenging manner. Heck, our security would have laughed, and told the lad to go sleep it off.

Clearly this person is one of those "power tripping" types and has been itching to use that gun ever since he was given the green light to carry it.
I weigh only 155 pounds and I would not have been intimidated in the least by a 135 pound youth.
Terrible judgement by this individual.

[fredtoast]

If I am a cop and get attacked by a naked man I might shoot him also. No way of telling if the dude was on PCP or something like that.

Good thing is that this is all on video, so officials should be able to determine if the shooting was justified.

My general rule of thumb is that anyone who attacks an officer when the officer has his gun pulled out deserves to get shot.

If a naked man was trying to beak into your house and you had a gun would you shoot him? If you say yes then you can not complain about what this officer did.

[BengalRugby]

If I am a cop and get attacked by a naked man I might shoot him also. No way of telling if the dude was on PCP or something like that.

Good thing is that this is all on video, so officials should be able to determine if the shooting was justified.

My general rule of thumb is that anyone who attacks an officer when the officer has his gun pulled out deserves to get shot.

If a naked man was trying to beak into your house and you had a gun would you shoot him? If you say yes then you can not complain about what this officer did.



Advantage is size,. training, equipment, and likely numbers (pending the officer having back up), and yet the suspect was shot.

Evidence of being on PCP? Maybe he was on tranquilizers, show me the proof, previous to shooting the individual.

Do you know the difference between defending your own property, as you imply in your retort, and public ground? Not to mention the level of threat imposed to a trained law enforcement official as opposed to the general public?

Maybe the matter would be better understood if the officer were of much lesser stature, but that information is not given.

What constitutes "threatening manner" which requires deadly force? Since that is the crux of the article?



It is nice to see that you opine more towards the cowardly cop response than the responsible cop...

Let's start handing out medals...

[SunsetBengal]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

If I am a cop and get attacked by a naked man I might shoot him also. No way of telling if the dude was on PCP or something like that.

Good thing is that this is all on video, so officials should be able to determine if the shooting was justified.

My general rule of thumb is that anyone who attacks an officer when the officer has his gun pulled out deserves to get shot.

If a naked man was trying to beak into your house and you had a gun would you shoot him? If you say yes then you can not complain about what this officer did.

Part of the point is...He wasn't even a real cop. Where are his verbal skills? Call for backup? Mace, pepper spray?

Very intersting for you to take that perspective, Mr. Public Defender...

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by BengalRugby

Evidence of being on PCP? Maybe he was on tranquilizers, show me the proof, previous to shooting the individual.

Of course I don't have any proof that he was on PCP. All I know is that he was out of his mind crazy. In these cases I find it hard to blame a policeman for shooting someone who attacks him when he has his gun drawn.

But at the same time I am glad it is on video because we will know for sure if the kiling was justified.

As I said before, if this guy was breaking into your house would you shoot him even though he was smaller than you? Would you use pepper spray or call for a friend to come help you before deciding to shoot him? I wouldn't. I would show him my gun and give him a chance to run away instead of attack me, but I damn sure blow him away if he attacks me while I have my gun drawn.

What would you do?

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by SunsetBengal

Where are his verbal skills? .

Verbal skills????? Seriously? A naked man attacks a security officer who has his gun drawn on him and you think it is because the officer has poor verbal skills?

[coachmcneil71]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

If I am a cop and get attacked by a naked man I might shoot him also. No way of telling if the dude was on PCP or something like that.

Good thing is that this is all on video, so officials should be able to determine if the shooting was justified.

My general rule of thumb is that anyone who attacks an officer when the officer has his gun pulled out deserves to get shot.

If a naked man was trying to beak into your house and you had a gun would you shoot him? If you say yes then you can not complain about what this officer did.

One of my brothers is a police officer and I am absolutely 100% positive that he would disagree. The use of LETHAL FORCE in this case seems unjustified.
You ever hear of incapacitating someone without shooting them in a vital area?
Clearly this kid was on some new fangled drug but a shot to the thigh might have been more prudent.
One of them had a gun while the other didn't.Who do you think had the advantage the entire time Fred? Obviously not the dead one!

[ajustyle]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

If I am a cop and get attacked by a naked man I might shoot him also. No way of telling if the dude was on PCP or something like that.

Good thing is that this is all on video, so officials should be able to determine if the shooting was justified.

My general rule of thumb is that anyone who attacks an officer when the officer has his gun pulled out deserves to get shot.

If a naked man was trying to beak into your house and you had a gun would you shoot him? If you say yes then you can not complain about what this officer did.

What? I don't think the material goods in a house would ever be worth a life. What is wrong with people who think life is less valuable then stuff. It's **** like this that let's me know what type of world we live in and why our race is doomed.

It's HARDER to deal with people's **** then it is to shoot them. Deal with it you lazy non-compassionate fools. Diffusing a situation is part of the job, but understanding the balance between morality and capability is a part of being a good human.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by ajustyle

What? I don't think the material goods in a house would ever be worth a life. What is wrong with people who think life is less valuable then stuff. It's **** like this that let's me know what type of world we live in and why our race is doomed.

It's HARDER to deal with people's **** then it is to shoot them. Deal with it you lazy non-compassionate fools. Diffusing a situation is part of the job, but understanding the balance between morality and capability is a part of being a good human.

I don't give a damn about material goods. I care about the well being of me and my family.

You are seriously going top let a naked crazy man break into your house and just hope he doesn't hurt you or your family????

I call B.S.

[ajustyle]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

I don't give a damn about material goods. I care about the well being of me and my family.

You are seriously going top let a naked crazy man break into your house and just hope he doesn't hurt you or your family????

I call B.S.

Bro when he starts hurting people is when it's no longer about material goods.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by coachmcneil71

One of my brothers is a police officer and I am absolutely 100% positive that he would disagree. The use of LETHAL FORCE in this case seems unjustified.
You ever hear of incapacitating someone without shooting them in a vital area?
Clearly this kid was on some new fangled drug but a shot to the thigh might have been more prudent.
One of them had a gun while the other didn't.Who do you think had the advantage the entire time Fred? Obviously not the dead one!

It isn't so easy to shoot a person in the thigh. This isn't T.V.

An officer should never pull his gun unless he is justified in killing the person he pulls it on. And even then he is not justified if the person stops attacking. Like I said, I am glad it is all on video so we will see if the officer acted properly, but if the guy still attacked after the officer pulled his gun then the shooting was justified.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by ajustyle

Bro when he starts hurting people is when it's no longer about material goods.

When he starts hurting people it is too damn late. I am not going to let someone hurt me or my children before I shoot him. Like I said, I show my gun and give him a chance to run away. I don't chase him down or shoot him in the back, but if he still attacks I kill him before he hurts me or my family.

[ajustyle]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

When he starts hurting people it is too damn late. I am not going to let someone hurt me or my children before I shoot him. Like I said, I show my gun and give him a chance to run away. I don't chase him down or shoot him in the back, but if he still attacks I kill him before he hurts me or my family.

When did you say that?

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by ajustyle

When did you say that?

Post #9

Originally Posted by fredtoast

I would show him my gun and give him a chance to run away instead of attack me, but I damn sure blow him away if he attacks me while I have my gun drawn.

What would you do?

[coachmcneil71]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

It isn't so easy to shoot a person in the thigh. This isn't T.V.

An officer should never pull his gun unless he is justified in killing the person he pulls it on. And even then he is not justified if the person stops attacking. Like I said, I am glad it is all on video so we will see if the officer acted properly, but if the guy still attacked after the officer pulled his gun then the shooting was justified.

No, it's not the movies but any trained officer worth his salt with a gun can make that shot fairly easily.These people are required to test their gun skills on a regular basis and they are graded and evaluated on this as required for their jobs. Most are very,very good shooters with a handgun. I understand the point that you are trying to make Fred but the use of non-lethal force is something that most po's are trained for at the academy.
A non-lethal shot was very much a viable option in this case considering the fact that the victim was unarmed. The "this isn't the movies" reference you used is laughable.I can put an arrow (yes I said an arrow) through a persons thigh quite easily at 35 yards. That's nearly 100 feet, my guess is these two were much closer when this tradgedy happened.
With a handgun I could do the same within 20 yards especially considering the fact that my opponent was unarmed.That's an easy shot to a non-lethal area for any trained shooter, so the movie reference comes off as you being a little snotty and makes you sound as if you are not very educated when it comes to the use of firearms.
I realize that this was just a security officer so it will be interesting to find out what the video shows though.

[bradfritz21]

With how those people were naked, tripping on bath salts, and eating people's faces a while back, I could see how it could be justified.

He weighed 135 lbs, but he was also a college wrestler, so you know he had to be in shape and possibly somewhat built, so how long did the security guy have to decide whether or not this naked, muscular college kid that was rushing him and tripping off something could be subdued by anything other than his gun?

On top of that, how did he know that the kid wasn't strong enough or on something that gave him enough adrenaline to beat him to death?

Just saying that, in these times, it might have been justified.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by coachmcneil71

No, it's not the movies but any trained officer worth his salt with a gun can make that shot fairly easily.These people are required to test their gun skills on a regular basis and they are graded and evaluated on this as required for their jobs. Most are very,very good shooters with a handgun. I understand the point that you are trying to make Fred but the use of non-lethal force is something that most po's are trained for at the academy.
A non-lethal shot was very much a viable option in this case considering the fact that the victim was unarmed. The "this ain't the movies" reference you used is laughable.I can put an arrow (yes I said an arrow) through a persons thigh quite easily at 35 yards. That's nearly 100 feet, my guess is these two were much closer when this tradgedy happened.
With a handgun I could do the same within 20 yards especially considering the fact that my opponent was unarmed.That's an easy shot to a non-lethal area for any trained shooter, so the movie reference comes off as you being a little snotty and makes you sound as if you are not very educated when it comes to the use of firearms.
It will be interesting to find out what the video shows though.

You can't hit a MOVING target the size of a human thigh from 35 yards easily with an arrow. Same with a handgun 20 yards.

And from my experience police are NOT trained to shoot in a non-lethal manner. I believe the saying goes like this. "We come in peace, but shoot to kill."

If police could shoot guns in a non-lethal manner then there would be no need for "non-lethal" weapons like tasers.

[GoldenBengal]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

If I am a cop and get attacked by a naked man I might shoot him also. No way of telling if the dude was on PCP or something like that.

Good thing is that this is all on video, so officials should be able to determine if the shooting was justified.

My general rule of thumb is that anyone who attacks an officer when the officer has his gun pulled out deserves to get shot.

If a naked man was trying to beak into your house and you had a gun would you shoot him? If you say yes then you can not complain about what this officer did.

What if the kid jumped on the rent-a-cop, punched him, knocked him to the ground and started pounding his head on the concrete....that kid would deserve to be shot???
...hmmmm
I'm trying to tie your logic on this case vs some recent case...I just can't put my finger on it...hmmmm...

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by GoldenBengal

What if the kid jumped on the rent-a-cop, punched him, knocked him to the ground and started pounding his head on the concrete....that kid would deserve to be shot???
...hmmmm
I'm trying to tie your logic on this case vs some recent case...I just can't put my finger on it...hmmmm...

This "rent-a-cop" did not stalk an innocent person and put that person in fear for his safety.

See the difference now?

And since this current officer was on video he will not even try to claim that he was "jumped" forty feet from where he shot the kid.

[coachmcneil71]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

You can't hit a MOVING target the size of a human thigh from 35 yards easily with an arrow. Same with a handgun 20 yards.

And from my experience police are NOT trained to shoot in a non-lethal manner. I believe the saying goes like this. "We come in peace, but shoot to kill."

Yes I can.
I could easily shoot a person in the legs specially if they were approaching me.
I mean there is a chance that I may miss but I would estimate that chance to be less than 20%.
My brother the police officer could do the same with a bow and arrow as well as his pistol.
In fact Fred I would venture to say that nearly every male in my family could do the same with nearly any firearm or bow and arrows.
A person that is in this mind set is usually not thinking straight to begin with.They certainly wouldn't even be considering the option of trying to dodge anything.
This person would be making a full frontal assault which would be an easy straight shot.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by coachmcneil71

Yes I can.
I could easily shoot a person in the legs specially if they were approaching me.
I mean there is a chance that I may miss but I would estimate that chance to be less than 20%.
My brother the police officer could do the same with a bow and arrow as well as his pistol.
In fact Fred I would venture to say that nearly every male in my family could do the same with nearly any firearm or bow and arrows.
A person that is in this mind set is usually not thinking straight to begin with.They certainly wouldn't even be considering the option of trying to dodge anything.
This person would be making a full frontal assault which would be an easy straight shot.

Maybe a stationary target, but not a moving one.

And that is why police are not even trained to try those types of shots.