Leif Erikson Day

[BumpyTrumpy]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

.

Please learn to read and understand the meaning of words such as perspective and justification. And try to fail less next time. How many more times does perspective have to be said, before it sinks into your thick skull?

Justification=/=perspective.

[BengalYankee]

Originally Posted by BumpyTrumpy

Please learn to read and understand the meaning of words such as perspective and justification. And try to fail less next time.

Please read my comments in full and I do know what perspective and justification means.

At no point was I addressing whether or not the natives were nice. The issue is whether Columbus actions were worthy of a celebration. The OP of this thread was correct, if anyone deserves a celebration it would be Leif Erikson, not a Terrorist who was involved in a genocide of the natives of Hispaniola.

[BumpyTrumpy]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

Please read my comments in full and I do know what perspective and justification means.

At no point was I addressing whether or not the natives were nice. The issue is whether Columbus actions were worthy of a celebration. The OP of this thread was correct, if anyone deserves a celebration it would be Leif Erikson, not a Terrorist who was involved in a genocide of the natives of Hispaniola.

I did read your comments (try actually reading mine), and all you did was not understand the word perspective after I said it three times. Dude, fail less.

Originally Posted by BumpyTrumpy

Yeah, not really impressive. And since when was a Genoan a Spaniard?

The Arawak and Carib natives weren't all that nice and peaceful anyway, usually warring with each other.

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

So what does that mean. Columbus had a green light for his actions?

That is the same sorry excuse for Slavery. Because African tribes were warring with each other does not give others the right to take the losers for slaves.

Originally Posted by BumpyTrumpy

It means precisely what it says...

It never was an excuse, it is perspective. The Arawak's themselves had slaves, from Carib wars.

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

The Carib natives had slaves too?

But it doesn't matter who had slaves. Are you going to justify the African Slave trade also??? Africans had slaves.
Anytime you have any type of genocide whether it be the holocaust or forced slavery or in the cast of the Arawak and Carib natives both genocide and forced slavery it is bad.

I am amazed that you guys are giving this Terrorost Columbus a pass.

Originally Posted by BumpyTrumpy

Again, perspective, not justification. By your logic, you are giving the Natives a pass for their self inflicted "terrorism."

Are you not good at reading, or something, or just ignoring what I write?

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

I am very good at reading it is what I do for a living. Au contraire, I think you have a problem with reading. Or you don't give a darn about genocide, which is almost exactly what happened to the natives of that island.

My first remark was an agreement with the following statement.



This was not a comparison on who was worse, but whether Columbus should be heralded as a hero and celebrated. On the same island where he first landed Hispaniola, Columbus day is not celebrated. The people on that island on both sides would never celebrate that day. It is here in the U.S., where Columbus never placed a foot is where he is celebrated by some.

Yeah dude, rather obvious you didnt read, assumed and made yourself look foolish, then tried to change your "argument."

[Bengalzona]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

You said you never heard a word against Columbus, I gave you 23 witnessess that had him arrested and put in jail. So now you did hear of words against Columbus as well as he was arrested and put in Jail.



But I repeat, because others were bad or maybe worse does not excuse Columbus for his actions. To the natives, Columbus was a Terrorist.

23 witnesses, but one account. If the people who replaced Columbus had been kinder and gentler to the natives than these witnesses said he was, then the witnesses statements would have more credibility. But, as it was, they were far worse. Hence, ambitious new would be governors with the support of the Spanish crown trumped up charges against Columbus and then proceeded to do the same things they ascribed to him and worse.

[BengalYankee]

Originally Posted by BumpyTrumpy

I did read your comments (try actually reading mine), and all you did was not understand the word perspective after I said it three times. Dude, fail less.

Using the word perspective as you did and as you used it is giving an excuse for what happened to the natives.

I said that Columbus was a Terrorist for what he did to the natives.

Originally Posted by BengalYankee
Columbus was no hero and he and his crew and the Spaniards who came afterwards terrorized the natives of Hispaniola. They took babies and slamed them on rocks, they cut fingers off the natives and did hideous things to the natives in the search of gold. When the Spaniards discovered gold in Central America, they dropped Hispaniola and went straight for the new land.

And you responded.

Originally Posted by BumpyTrumpy
Yeah, not really impressive

That is wrong. A person can point out Hitler's crimes against the Jews with a image and you would respond with some stupid perspective garbage.

To the natives of Hispaniola, Columbus was Hitler. There is no idiotic statement that you can say which will be kosher of what I am trying to get through YOUR Thick Skull!!!

You don't care about the natives, you don't identify with them your justification was that they were warring with each other, soooooo

Columbus does not deserve a celebration here in the New World for his actions. Maybe in Italy or Spain, but not here in the New World.

[BengalYankee]

Originally Posted by Bengalzona

23 witnesses, but one account. If the people who replaced Columbus had been kinder and gentler to the natives than these witnesses said he was, then the witnesses statements would have more credibility. But, as it was, they were far worse. Hence, ambitious new would be governors with the support of the Spanish crown trumped up charges against Columbus and then proceeded to do the same things they ascribed to him and worse.

But that doesn't justify him having a Celebration in our country.
Again, whether the people who replaced Columbus were evil or not the issue is about Columbus and is he worthy of celebration.

He is not celebrated on Hispaniola, the island that he "discovered".

He never set foot in North America, so he should not be heralded here either.

If he was to be heralded that would be Spain and Italy.

Think about it do you really think the people of Haiti and the Dominican Republic should celebrate Columbus??? Thank God, they are smart enough NOT to celebrate him.

[SunsetBengal]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

Please read my comments in full and I do know what perspective and justification means.

At no point was I addressing whether or not the natives were nice. The issue is whether Columbus actions were worthy of a celebration. The OP of this thread was correct, if anyone deserves a celebration it would be Leif Erikson, not a Terrorist who was involved in a genocide of the natives of Hispaniola.

Yank, take a breath. I think most of us are educated enough to know that Columbus was no saint. In truth, all he should be recognized for is "discovering" the Americas. Yes, he oversaw people doing bad things to other people in the interest of attaining wealth for his sponsors. That fact does not mean that you should get all "PC" about the guy. Just look at the time period...it was pretty brutal in those ages. In fact, as Bengalzona pointed out, you can take just about any people and find a time that they were mean to other people.

While I personally feel that more emphasis should be put on Leif Erickson in the elementary school history books, it does not mean that Columbus does not deserve credit for also finding the "Western worlds". After all, it is his discovery that brought news of these parts back to Europe, leading to the settling and colonization of the United States and all of the various immigrations thence forth. I would say that is the reason the US celebrates Columbus Day over Leif Erickson Day.

[SteelCitySouth]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

But that doesn't justify him having a Celebration in our country.
Again, whether the people who replaced Columbus were evil or not the issue is about Columbus and is he worthy of celebration.

He is not celebrated on Hispaniola, the island that he "discovered".

He never set foot in North America, so he should not be heralded here either.

If he was to be heralded that would be Spain and Italy.

Think about it do you really think the people of Haiti and the Dominican Republic should celebrate Columbus??? Thank God, they are smart enough NOT to celebrate him.

I'm starting to think you just hate holidays all together...

[Bengalzona]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

But that doesn't justify him having a Celebration in our country.
Again, whether the people who replaced Columbus were evil or not the issue is about Columbus and is he worthy of celebration.

He is not celebrated on Hispaniola, the island that he "discovered".

He never set foot in North America, so he should not be heralded here either.

If he was to be heralded that would be Spain and Italy.

Think about it do you really think the people of Haiti and the Dominican Republic should celebrate Columbus??? Thank God, they are smart enough NOT to celebrate him.

My argument has been only that Columbus himself gets a bad rap sometimes, not whether he should have a day named after him. Those who don't like the holiday have valid reasons for not liking it.

I think Columbus gets the credit because he accidentally set off the Age of Discovery. I think there are some aspects of that age that are worth celebrating (man, driven by curiosity, conquering his fear of the unknown, etc.). It is the same spirit that has driven explorers to the bottom of the Marianas Trench, to the top of Everest, and to the moon. Perhaps the name of the day needs to be changed to "Explorers Day" to be more inclusive of that spirit and less centered upon Columbus and his contemporaries. But I also think Columbus deserves a mention in the history books for kicking off the Age of Discovery. I think the controversy over him is also a good thing. Through him and his contemporaries, we learned that we need to be responsible when exploring and exercise great care when confronting new populations, human or otherwise. It is the basis for the "Prime Directive" in Star Trek science fiction.


As far as Leif, he didn't leave any diseases so he doesn't get any credit.

[BengalYankee]

Originally Posted by SunsetBengal

Yank, take a breath. I think most of us are educated enough to know that Columbus was no saint. In truth, all he should be recognized for is "discovering" the Americas. Yes, he oversaw people doing bad things to other people in the interest of attaining wealth for his sponsors. That fact does not mean that you should get all "PC" about the guy. Just look at the time period...it was pretty brutal in those ages. In fact, as Bengalzona pointed out, you can take just about any people and find a time that they were mean to other people.

The America's don't like Columbus at least the America's that was actually touched by Columbus. He was not just mean to the natives. He was involved in GENOCIDE of a people!!!! When all the natives were dead, the Spaniards went to Africa to get slaves there because all the natives were DEAD!!!!! All of them!!! That is why the countries of Haiti and the Domincan Republic on the island is mostly Black. The Spaniards killed off the natives. That is nothing you just sweep under the rug.

Hispaniola doesn't recognize Columbus. That is where Columbus first landed. The people on that island don't celebrate Columbus day. The argument that it was brutal those days don't register to me. One day in the future, someone is going to say well blah,blah,blah the perspective of Hitler's action was blah,blah,blah. It was wrong then, now and forever. What Hitler did was attempted genocide, what happened to the natives of Hispaniola was genocide. I respectfully, disagree with you.

[BengalYankee]

Originally Posted by SteelCitySouth

I'm starting to think you just hate holidays all together...

[SteelCitySouth]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

The fact that you posted a photo from 9gag should embarrass you...a lot.

[BengalYankee]

Originally Posted by SteelCitySouth

The fact that you posted a photo from 9gag should embarrass you...a lot.

[Lolli]

Originally Posted by whodey1302

How does one "discover" someplace that already has people living there?

Happy Nanook of the North day.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by SteelCitySouth

I'm starting to think you just hate holidays all together...

I don't know about that, but he hates Columbus so much that he won't even watch a Buckeyes game.

[BumpyTrumpy]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

Using the word perspective as you did and as you used it is giving an excuse for what happened to the natives.

I said that Columbus was a Terrorist for what he did to the natives.



And you responded.






That is wrong. A person can point out Hitler's crimes against the Jews with a image and you would respond with some stupid perspective garbage.

To the natives of Hispaniola, Columbus was Hitler. There is no idiotic statement that you can say which will be kosher of what I am trying to get through YOUR Thick Skull!!!

You don't care about the natives, you don't identify with them your justification was that they were warring with each other, soooooo

Columbus does not deserve a celebration here in the New World for his actions. Maybe in Italy or Spain, but not here in the New World.

No, it is perspective, not an excuse, please learn what these words mean. And actually, you responded to me.

We get it, you didnt read and are in denial - putting your own assumptions in my mouth. Get over it and fail less, and then maybe you wont come off as a twelve year old.

[BengalYankee]

Originally Posted by BumpyTrumpy

No, it is perspective, not an excuse, please learn what these words mean. And actually, you responded to me.

We get it, you didnt read. Get over it and fail less.

Learn what is the ordering system.

I made my first comment on post #11 in response to Bengalzona, stating that Columbus was a Terrorist with a graphical image.

Bengalzona replied to my comment on post #14 with the comment "Unimpressed."

Your first comment was post #17 including the comments "Yeah, not really impressive".

I know what perspective means. However people don't use perspective when they are talking about Hitler's action toward the Jews. If you were to refer to what Hitler did to the Jews and justified YOUR comments by stating "Well perspectivly speaking Hitler's action was, blah,blah,blah". Say that to the wrong person and you will get rightly punched in the face.

You can say anything you want, but the images below portray Columbus as no different then Hitler's action to the Jews, EVIL!!!
Whenever you have women raped, babies smashed, people maimed and tortued and killed then anyone involved with those hideous actions should not be celebrated.

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/...he-genocide-of

It's easy for a person like you who will look beyond the travesty of what happened. Your perspective, was that it was a different time, phooey. Your excuse that the natives were warring with each other is a BS excuse. A third party does not have a right to do genocide against others. The Palestinians and Israelis have been fighting now for years, that doesn't give a right for a third party to kill Palestinians and Israelis.

EDIT: Well some people do use perspective when they are talking about Hitler, but if the writer of this article was not in the basement of his family house when writing it and out in the open then he like you may get punched in the face by the wrong person.

http://globalfire.tv/nj/10en/history...erspective.htm

People don't normally hide there true feelings, by sneakedly using the word perspective.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by BumpyTrumpy

No, it is perspective, not an excuse, please learn what these words mean. And actually, you responded to me.

We get it, you didnt read and are in denial - putting your own assumptions in my mouth. Get over it and fail less, and then maybe you wont come off as a twelve year old.

Trumpy, tryting to use the word "perspective" just shows that you aren't man enough to stand behind your beliefs. you want to throw them out there, but you then don't want to stand behind them.

I respect people who have different opinions and stand behind them more than people who have different opinions but don't have the guts to stand behind them.

[BengalYankee]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

Trumpy, tryting to use the word "perspective" just shows that you aren't man enough to stand behind your beliefs. you want to throw them out there, but you then don't want to stand behind them.

I respect people who have different opinions and stand behind them more than people who have different opinions but don't have the guts to stand behind them.

[Morning Star]

christopher columbus did study the bible though..He found out readng the bible that the earth was not flat..He was an end time scholar and started out good just got consumed with wealth and power..

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

Learn what is the ordering system.

I made my first comment on post #11 in response to Bengalzona, stating that Columbus was a Terrorist with a graphical image.

Bengalzona replied to my comment on post #14 with the comment "Unimpressed."

Your first comment was post #17 including the comments "Yeah, not really impressive".

I know what perspective means. However people don't use perspective when they are talking about Hitler's action toward the Jews. If you were to refer to what Hitler did to the Jews and justified YOUR comments by stating "Well perspectivly speaking Hitler's action was, blah,blah,blah". Say that to the wrong person and you will get rightly punched in the face.

You can say anything you want, but the images below portray Columbus as no different then Hitler's action to the Jews, EVIL!!!
Whenever you have women raped, babies smashed, people maimed and tortued and killed then anyone involved with those hideous actions should not be celebrated.

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/...he-genocide-of

It's easy for a person like you who will look beyond the travesty of what happened. Your perspective, was that it was a different time, phooey. Your excuse that the natives were warring with each other is a BS excuse. A third party does not have a right to do genocide against others. The Palestinians and Israelis have been fighting now for years, that doesn't give a right for a third party to kill Palestinians and Israelis.

EDIT: Well some people do use perspective when they are talking about Hitler, but if the writer of this article was not in the basement of his family house when writing it and out in the open then he like you may get punched in the face by the wrong person.

http://globalfire.tv/nj/10en/history...erspective.htm

People don't normally hide there true feelings, by sneakedly using the word perspective.

You do know that the second picture is of Russians dressed up like the Spainish? Yup, and the Swiss liked that look so much that they took off with it a forced those guys who protect the Vatican to wear it?

[Morning Star]

everybody will do crazy things for money if there heart is not right..

[BumpyTrumpy]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

Trumpy, tryting to use the word "perspective" just shows that you aren't man enough to stand behind your beliefs. you want to throw them out there, but you then don't want to stand behind them.

I respect people who have different opinions and stand behind them more than people who have different opinions but don't have the guts to stand behind them.

Man enough? What are you going on about? I never gave beliefs and never threw a belief out there. Link these beliefs... That's what I thought. Know more about life, kid and learn to read. No wonder everybody thinks you are a joke that pretends to be a lawyer.

But you have mistaken me for someone who cares what you think. I couldn't care less what jokes like you do. Learn what perspective is, and get a life.

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

snip.

Damn, you still dont know what perspective is? Nor your their, from your there? Were you going to keep failing, or link where I gave these assumed beliefs?

That's what I thought. You assumed, you were wrong, and now everybody is pointing and laughing at you since you are in denial. The rest of your diatribe really had nothing to do with anything, and came off as incoherent rambling.

Also, thanks for showing how I never responded to you, but you responded to me, like I said in the first place. Pretty much what I would expect from a Yankee fan, ignorance.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by BumpyTrumpy

But you have mistaken me for someone who cares what you think. I couldn't care less what jokes like you do.

Sorry, I just assumed that if someone goes to the trouble of giving me neg rep they must care what I think.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by BumpyTrumpy

Man enough? What are you going on about? I never gave beliefs and never threw a belief out there. Link these beliefs...

So why exactly would you make this post if you didn't believe that the fact they were warring with each other had something to do with the issue of Columbus slaughtering them?

Originally Posted by BumpyTrumpy

The Arawak and Carib natives weren't all that nice and peaceful anyway, usually warring with each other.

What point were you trying to make with this "perspective"? I understand you claim you were just giving "perspective", but I am asking why. There must be some reason, correct? There must be some point you were trying to make or else you would not have seen any reason to give add this "perspective" to the conversation, right?

So what was that reason? Are you man enough to say?