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  #1  
Old 11-05-2012, 10:31 AM
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Default Have our drafts really been that good?

We all know they get rated fairly highly by analysts at the time...but have they really made a big impact on the Bengals this season?

Let's examine:

2012:
Starters - Zeitler
Rotation Players - Still, Charles
Others - Thompson, Kirkpatrick, Sanu, Jones

My analysis - While this was considered a top 5 draft by analysts, the impact hasn't really been there. The Kirkpatrick injury definately hurt a lot. Zeitler has played well and is improving as the season goes on and shows great promise for the future, but when you don't sign major free agent upgrades...1 starter doesn't cut it.

2011:
Starters: AJ Green, Dalton, Boling
Others: Moch, Sands, Whalen

My analysis: AJ Green is an all-world WR. Dalton is an above average young QB. Boling has been pretty good at Guard after a disappointing rookie season. The rest of the draft picks this year didn't pan out to well. Drafting Moch over Demarco Murray was an epically bad move. Overall, this was a good draft.

2010:
Starters: Gresham, Dunlap, Atkins
Others: Ghee, Muckelroy

My analysis: Atkins was a great pick in the 4th round. Gresham has underachieved and has been a horrible blocker this year. He made the Pro Bowl, but that was more a product of major injuries at the TE position and the Super Bowl teams not sending representatives. Dunlap is inconsistant. When he's on...he's on. Some games he's totally neutralized. The rest of this draft has had no impact for the Bengals. Shipley, Hudson, Briscoe, and Stephens aren't Bengals, and Ghee has been injured and never really plays.

2009:
Starters: Andre Smith, Maualuga, Michael Johnson, Huber
Rotation Players: Bernard Scott (IR)

My analysis: Andre Smith is an above average to good Right Tackle. He's probably a Top 15 player. Maualuga is below average. Michael Johnson is inconsistant. Huber is an average punter. Bernard Scott was an average backup. Gone from the Bengals are Chase Coffman, Luigs, Trent, Vakapuna, McDonald, and Freddie Brown.

2008:
Starters: None
Rotation Players: Pat Sims (IR)
Others: Anthony Collins

My analysis: Bad draft. No starters are still on the roster. Gone are Simpson, Caldwell, Shirley, Lynch, Sherry, Craig, and Urrutia.

2007:
Starters: Leon Hall
Others: None

Leon Hall is the only 2007 draft pick still on the roster.

2006:
Starters: Whitworth, Peko
Others: None

My analysis: Gone are Joseph, Rucker, Nicholson, McNeal, Kilmer, and Brazell.

2005:
Starters: None
Others: None

No 2005 draft picks are still on the current roster.

2004:
Starters: None
Others: Geathers

My analysis: Robert Geathers is the only 2004 draft pick still on the current roster.

2004:
Starters: None
Others: None

No 2003 draft picks are still on the current roster.

Overall:
The Bengals have generally excelled with their 1st Round pick and sometimes 2nd. Outside of Atkins and Peko, their 4th Round down picks have yielded very little in the way of quality starters. Most of the 4th Round picks and lower are out of the NFL. Bernard Scott in the 6th Round was probably the best lower round pick.

Last edited by THE PISTONS; 11-05-2012 at 11:14 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-05-2012, 11:19 AM
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Default Re: Have our drafts really been that good?

We need to sign higher quality free agents. The below list makes that obvious!
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:47 AM
Ryan Mc Ryan Mc is offline
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Default Re: Have our drafts really been that good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PISTONS View Post
We all know they get rated fairly highly by analysts at the time...but have they really made a big impact on the Bengals this season?....
Reasonable question. I think the reason we always get high ratings from the analysts is because we always pick up "steals" in their eyes and therefore get rated high for the "value" of our picks...

...but then it turns out there's a reason why the actual NFL teams weren't as high on those players as the analysts were.

Maualuga is exhibit A ... lots of hype about how we got the steal of the draft that year, could have easily gone high in the first round etc., etc. With the benefit of hindsight it's hard to see any good argument that Rey should have gone earlier than where he did get picked (early 2nd round) and that he was the 3rd best LB on his own college team (behind Matthews and Cushing) Dontay Moch and Brandon Ghee are other recent picks who come to mind as guys hyped by the analysts as great "value" picks who have done nothing for the team so far and who it's hard to argue with hindsight should have gone any higher than where they actually did get picked.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:53 AM
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Default Re: Have our drafts really been that good?

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Originally Posted by Ryan Mc View Post
Reasonable question. I think the reason we always get high ratings from the analysts is because we always pick up "steals" in their eyes and therefore get rated high for the "value" of our picks...

...but then it turns out there's a reason why the actual NFL teams weren't as high on those players as the analysts were.

Maualuga is exhibit A ... lots of hype about how we got the steal of the draft that year, could have easily gone high in the first round etc., etc. With the benefit of hindsight it's hard to see any good argument that Rey should have gone earlier than where he did get picked (early 2nd round) and that he was the 3rd best LB on his own college team (behind Matthews and Cushing) Dontay Moch and Brandon Ghee are other recent picks who come to mind as guys hyped by the analysts as great "value" picks who have done nothing for the team so far and who it's hard to argue with hindsight should have gone any higher than where they actually did get picked.
Then theirs the "retain our own" model, when only a few guys are still on our roster from our drafts of 5 years ago.

Yes...we only have 3 starters on our roster that we drafted more than 5 years ago. For those of you keeping track at home, a rookie contracts length back then was 5 or 6 years. We have exactly 3 starters and Robert Geathers from that period.

And we let Joseph walk who would have been on this list...because we need cap space to retain our own upcoming free agents!
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:16 PM
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Default Re: Have our drafts really been that good?

What hurts to look at is that instead of Rey, we could have had Jariius Byrd, Shady McCoy, or Mike Wallace.
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:20 PM
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Default Re: Have our drafts really been that good?

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What hurts to look at is that instead of Rey, we could have had Jariius Byrd, Shady McCoy, or Mike Wallace.
And Moch could have been Demarco Murray.
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:26 PM
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Default Re: Have our drafts really been that good?

here's how the great Mel Kiper..er..ha... ranked our drafts the last 4 years

2012...A-
2011...A-
2010...C
2009...B


If there is a silver lining...he does like our most current drafts.
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  #8  
Old 11-05-2012, 12:29 PM
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Default Re: Have our drafts really been that good?

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here's how the great Mel Kiper..er..ha... ranked our drafts the last 4 years

2012...A-
2011...A-
2010...C
2009...B


If there is a silver lining...he does like our most current drafts.
Of course Kiper likes them...when you don't have a lot of scouts you rely on publications such as Kiper's to scout...atleast partially.

How have these drafts actually turned out though from a production standpoint?
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:43 PM
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Default Re: Have our drafts really been that good?

Looking back, I see ONE (1) great player not taken in the 1st round. Geno. Other than that, there is not much to speak of. Heck, most of the players were busts and the ones that don't bust (Joseph and perhaps Andre) are not retained.
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From 2006-2013, this team has never finished higher than 20th in yards per carry. They've had an average rank of 27th during those 8 seasons.

During those 8 seasons, we've had several starting RBs, different starters on the o-line, different TEs and FBs and 2 different RB coaches. Only our o-line coach remained the same.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:43 PM
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Default Retaining our own drafted players

So the Model is to retain our own drafted players.

Here's one that will make you think: We have exactly 4 players on the roster that were drafted more than 5 years ago! (Peko, Geathers, Whitworth, and Hall)

The average rookie contract in the NFL is 5 years for 1st Round picks so either we aren't etaining our own for financial reasons...or they aren't worth retaining which signals a bad draft pick.

Thoughts?
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: Retaining our own drafted players

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PISTONS View Post
So the Model is to retain our own drafted players.

Here's one that will make you think: We have exactly 4 players on the roster that were drafted more than 5 years ago! (Peko, Geathers, Whitworth, and Hall)

The average rookie contract in the NFL is 5 years for 1st Round picks so either we aren't etaining our own for financial reasons...or they aren't worth retaining which signals a bad draft pick.

Thoughts?
Both. And a third reason--I want to play for a real football team.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: Retaining our own drafted players

Most are not worth retaining.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:12 PM
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Default Re: Retaining our own drafted players

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Most are not worth retaining.
Shhh. This is our little secret.

But, when they left, they were free agent acquisitions for other teams.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:20 PM
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Default Re: Retaining our own drafted players

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Both. And a third reason--I want to play for a real football team.
Right on McC !

A lot of peeps holler we messed up not keeping JJ, it's just speculation on my part, but I believe Joseph had next to zero intent to stay at nearly any price !
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:21 PM
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Default Re: Retaining our own drafted players

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PISTONS View Post
So the Model is to retain our own drafted players.

Here's one that will make you think: We have exactly 4 players on the roster that were drafted more than 5 years ago! (Peko, Geathers, Whitworth, and Hall)

The average rookie contract in the NFL is 5 years for 1st Round picks so either we aren't etaining our own for financial reasons...or they aren't worth retaining which signals a bad draft pick.

Thoughts?

The Model is a cheap model, using cheap glue as opposed to strong glue to keep it together for a long time (analogy alert). In the late 1990s and early 2000's I said the Bengals will never be winners unless MB changes. Now that he has somewhat changed since then, all be it barely, I am back to that mindset, yet this time my thoughts are that not much will change until he is good and gone as owner.
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Last edited by Millz; 11-05-2012 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:23 PM
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Default Re: Retaining our own drafted players

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Originally Posted by bengalfan74 View Post
Right on McC !

A lot of peeps holler we messed up not keeping JJ, it's just speculation on my part, but I believe Joseph had next to zero intent to stay at nearly any price !
We'll never know for sure because we offered Joseph less money than the Texans.
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From 2006-2013, this team has never finished higher than 20th in yards per carry. They've had an average rank of 27th during those 8 seasons.

During those 8 seasons, we've had several starting RBs, different starters on the o-line, different TEs and FBs and 2 different RB coaches. Only our o-line coach remained the same.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:29 PM
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Default Re: Retaining our own drafted players

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We'll never know for sure because we offered Joseph less money than the Texans.
I know but I still don't blame players for exiting stage left asap.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:31 PM
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Default Re: Retaining our own drafted players

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I know but I still don't blame players for exiting stage left asap.
Like Carson Palmer, for example. I totally "get" why he wanted out.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:37 PM
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Default Re: Retaining our own drafted players

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I know but I still don't blame players for exiting stage left asap.
Can't say I do either. How many players have dogged Mike Brown over the years? Just imagine how many probably feel the same way but keep it to themselves.
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From 2006-2013, this team has never finished higher than 20th in yards per carry. They've had an average rank of 27th during those 8 seasons.

During those 8 seasons, we've had several starting RBs, different starters on the o-line, different TEs and FBs and 2 different RB coaches. Only our o-line coach remained the same.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: Retaining our own drafted players

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Can't say I do either. How many players have dogged Mike Brown over the years? Just imagine how many probably feel the same way but keep it to themselves.
Truth be known, I'd bet really big money (if I had it) it's a really long list.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: Retaining our own drafted players

Lets be honest who wants to actually play the entire career for a joke of a franchise like this one... Id hit free agency at the first opportunity. Green, Gresham, and the rest will likely do the same. It hurts to say all that but its the truth. AJ is gonna make a killing in free agency.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:05 AM
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Default Re: Retaining our own drafted players

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Lets be honest who wants to actually play the entire career for a joke of a franchise like this one... Id hit free agency at the first opportunity. Green, Gresham, and the rest will likely do the same. It hurts to say all that but its the truth. AJ is gonna make a killing in free agency.
Mike Brown will have to significantly overpay AJ for him to stay here.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: Retaining our own drafted players

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Mike Brown will have to significantly overpay AJ for him to stay here.

Lols..... This will never happen.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: Retaining our own drafted players

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PISTONS View Post
So the Model is to retain our own drafted players.

Here's one that will make you think: We have exactly 4 players on the roster that were drafted more than 5 years ago! (Peko, Geathers, Whitworth, and Hall)

The average rookie contract in the NFL is 5 years for 1st Round picks so either we aren't etaining our own for financial reasons...or they aren't worth retaining which signals a bad draft pick.

Thoughts?
The Model is a POS. It is not the team's real strategy. It's just the justification used to explain the mega unspent cap space and leave obvious holes when they could have been filled in FA.

The real strategy is to do just enough to make fans think they should spend money on the team and to not spend a penny more than is minimally required to sucker fans. That's the real strategy and the proof is in the team's actions. What people SAY means nothing. What people DO means everything.

Judge people by what they actually DO, not what they SAY they're going to do.

Last edited by BengalChris; 11-06-2012 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:32 AM
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Default Re: Retaining our own drafted players

But what about all these great drafts I hear the Bengals have.

The reality is the Benglas have had many top picks due to their poor showings during the season---yet where's these all these great players as a result of the draft people talk about?
We've never drafted well.
AJ was a no brainer.
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