Hall is dog meat. DB's biggest concern

[McC]

Originally Posted by Lygraf

the gameplan seemed to be shut down the run at all costs. that happened.

peyton got hot. you're not stopping a hot peyton.

Especially a clean, untouched, unpressured Peyton.

[basballguy]

You guys do realize it was Terrance Newman who was in coverage for both of Decker's TDs, right?

Of course not, you're still in awe over his INTs.

[bradfritz21]

Originally Posted by RIPChrisHenry

I say we draft a corner High in next years draft or target someone strong in free agency b/c i cant remember the last time i was impressed with a corner on our team since JJ. yea terrance newman played well this week, but newman is still noone to write home about and is on the slippery slope of his career....along with almost everyone of our corners. I know ill probably get heat for this but i cant stand Hall. Leon is awful. I was soo confused when we let JJ go. leon is a good tackler but i would much rather my corners, cover. I just cant imagine how more dominant our D line would be with good corners. Its time for DRE this week against the giants. Mistakes an all i would much rather be seeing dre learning than our vets making the same mistakes over and over.

One of those guys

Do you know much about football? You sound like one of those people who either comes in here and starts a bold thread, hoping a wild idea hits and making a name for yourself, or you're a teen that comes in and starts a bold thread because it makes you feel hard.

Either way, stop trying so hard.

If you knew much about football, you would watch the game and see Leon making textbook plays to break up passes and to cover his man. It's next to impossible to cover if your defensive line gets no pass rush and the quarterback has 25 seconds to throw.

Leon is the least of worries on our defense.

Originally Posted by Stewee28

Yea....especially the MLB position. Peyton torched us yesterday with his passes through the middle of the field. Does anyone have Peytons passing stats as far as Left, Middle and Right sides?? Cuz id really like to see them!

Draft Ogletree in the second and Jefferson at safety in the first and watch how much our defense improves. Ogletree at MIKE or SAM, whichever one Burfict doesn't want.

[Burma]

Originally Posted by bradfritz21

One of those guys

Do you know much about football? You sound like one of those people who either comes in here and starts a bold thread, hoping a wild idea hits and making a name for yourself, or you're a teen that comes in and starts a bold thread because it makes you feel hard.

Either way, stop trying so hard.

If you knew much about football, you would watch the game and see Leon making textbook plays to break up passes and to cover his man. It's next to impossible to cover if your defensive line gets no pass rush and the quarterback has 25 seconds to throw.

Leon is the least of worries on our defense.



Draft Ogletree in the second and Jefferson at safety in the first and watch how much our defense improves. Ogletree at MIKE or SAM, whichever one Burfict doesn't want.

I am very much on the Ogletree band wagon this year. The kid does everything. Ogltree and an upgrade at safety would make a world of difference. Really would love to get Sean Porter in here as well. Porter, Ogletree, and Burfict would be one out standing LB with the athleticism to cover side line to sideline. Back that up with a Jefferson/Rambo/Vaccarro/Lester type player and our D looks night and day different.

Having said that I still think Milliner is the 2nd coming of Revis and want, no, need, him in stripes lol

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Originally Posted by Burma

I am very much on the Ogletree band wagon this year. The kid does everything. Ogltree and an upgrade at safety would make a world of difference. Really would love to get Sean Porter in here as well. Porter, Ogletree, and Burfict would be one out standing LB with the athleticism to cover side line to sideline. Back that up with a Jefferson/Rambo/Vaccarro/Lester type player and our D looks night and day different.

Having said that I still think Milliner is the 2nd coming of Revis and want, no, need, him in stripes lol

Leon's having a better year than Joseph.

Just to let you guys know; aside from picks, Leon is better in every statistic. And he's had less snaps.

[Lawless_1]

Here is crazy idea...

How about drafting a corner if one of value is available and move Hall to SS?

He could be a longer solution there than Clements, Crocker, or Newman.

I remember everyone saying he would make a better safety than corner earlier in his career.

[Burma]

Originally Posted by Truck_1_0_1_

Leon's having a better year than Joseph.

Just to let you guys know; aside from picks, Leon is better in every statistic. And he's had less snaps.

ah, don't get me wrong I am not anti Leon. He's having a very good year. I am just very pro Milliner.

[AlaskanHero]

For a guy coming off a torn Achilles, I think Hall has been doing as well as could be expected. DB is a concern, but it's not because of Hall. Before you go wild on saying "Corner in the first!", I'd see what the team has in Kirkpatrick. The answer may be right there in him and if it is, you can push that need to a mid to late round pick. Besides, odds are that first round pick is going to be a Safety or Linebacker, maybe Running Back. Seeing how they've been platooning it in a desperate attempt to find something that works, odds are it'll be a Safety.

Anyways, the DBs aren't being helped by the D-Line disappearing these last few weeks. If the team could mess up pockets and force some bad throws, you wouldn't really need pro-bowl caliber corners. It wouldn't surprise me if the coaching staff expected the D-Line to provide that kind of push.

[savagehenry54]

Hall is fine and DreKirk will be. We need LB SS and RB before corner. If we can get a difference making RB in the first, I'd probably do that. Give Dalton and AJ a good run game and if nothing else, we could at least out score people.

I don't generally like RB in the first, but if a TRich is there to be had, we need to do that, that's probably the quickest way to make this team one that could actually win a playoff game. Well, that and replacing Lewis.

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by Lawless_1

Here is crazy idea...

How about drafting a corner if one of value is available and move Hall to SS?

He could be a longer solution there than Clements, Crocker, or Newman.

I remember everyone saying he would make a better safety than corner earlier in his career.

Or we could just draft one of the many good college prospects set to come out for the draft next year.

Hall is good at corner. Besides that, Mike Brown isn't gonna pay someone over $8 million per year to play safety.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Originally Posted by Burma

ah, don't get me wrong I am not anti Leon. He's having a very good year. I am just very pro Milliner.

Damn figured you would take it like that; I forgot to uncheck the "quote message in reply" box, sorry

[BigPapaKain]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

We have bigger problems than Leon, but he's obviously not the player he was before. A TE made him look silly yesterday.

You're upset because a 6'4", 245 pound tight end was able to box out a 5'11", 195 pound corner?

I don't think they make a smilie to match the face I'm currently making...

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

We have bigger problems than Leon, but he's obviously not the player he was before. A TE made him look silly yesterday.

Yeah, Shake, that's happened his whole career.

I've never seen ANY under 6'0 CB be able to defend a 6'4+ TE; that's a matchup you want, and exploit.

[CornerBlitz]

Leon Hall is not the problem.

LB, CB opposite Hall, and pressure from our DEs is the problem. Not to mention a quality safety opposite nelson. basically our whole defense is crap.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

Leon Hall is not the problem.

LB, CB opposite Hall, and pressure from our DEs is the problem. Not to mention a quality safety opposite nelson. basically our whole defense is crap.

In fairness, we have 2 guys who are damn fine players (Leon and Geno) but yeah outside of that, looks grim.

[berserkerone88]

how anyone could be upset with Leon when he blanketed a very skilled WR while his DL got ZERO rush.....yeah Leon is the problem....fools.

[Who2Dey]

Originally Posted by RIPChrisHenry

I say we draft a corner High in next years draft or target someone strong in free agency b/c i cant remember the last time i was impressed with a corner on our team since JJ. yea terrance newman played well this week, but newman is still noone to write home about and is on the slippery slope of his career....along with almost everyone of our corners. I know ill probably get heat for this but i cant stand Hall. Leon is awful. I was soo confused when we let JJ go. leon is a good tackler but i would much rather my corners, cover. I just cant imagine how more dominant our D line would be with good corners. Its time for DRE this week against the giants. Mistakes an all i would much rather be seeing dre learning than our vets making the same mistakes over and over.

I've been critical of leon the last three years and have taken some heat for it and ill even give him a Lil more slack considering the situation. That injury makes me cringe and I couldn't imagine what it would feel like....I'm guessing awful. Leon is what he is...a decent number 2 coming off a devastating injury. It isn't his fault the team is depending on him as a number 1. He simply can't stop and start fast enough to keep up with these freak wrs and now with the new rules one of his plus attributes(being physical) is negated. If you had it in your head that he is elite then that is your fault, not leons.

We need safety and oline help too bad to take another first round cb. Dre is going to play regardless if he's good or not and we have enough warm bodies to fill the other side. When the last line of defense is awful your giving points up with regularity.

Too many holes to fix in one draft....us getting free agents is laughable.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Originally Posted by Who2Dey

I've been critical of leon the last three years and have taken some heat for it and ill even give him a Lil more slack considering the situation. That injury makes me cringe and I couldn't imagine what it would feel like....I'm guessing awful. Leon is what he is...a decent number 2 coming off a devastating injury. It isn't his fault the team is depending on him as a number 1. He simply can't stop and start fast enough to keep up with these freak wrs and now with the new rules one of his plus attributes(being physical) is negated. If you had it in your head that he is elite then that is your fault, not leons.

We need safety and oline help too bad to take another first round cb. Dre is going to play regardless if he's good or not and we have enough warm bodies to fill the other side. When the last line of defense is awful your giving points up with regularity.

Too many holes to fix in one draft....us getting free agents is laughable.

Buuuuut he can.

Again, doing better than Joseph this year.

Coming off an Achilles injury.

And missing 2 games.

[Who2Dey]

Originally Posted by Truck_1_0_1_

Buuuuut he can.

Again, doing better than Joseph this year.

Coming off an Achilles injury.

And missing 2 games.

He's not better than Joseph. Hall has more opportunities for stats since qbs throw at him more than Joseph. Joseph is better period and you're wasting your time trying to convince me otherwise. I saw with my eyeballs for years and do not care what some sites stats say. Hall gets picked on period as is a number 2. Pre injury hall was getting burnt by fast wrs. Wallace and brown over in Pittsburgh took his will and it was all down hill from there.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Originally Posted by Who2Dey

He's not better than Joseph. Hall has more opportunities for stats since qbs throw at him more than Joseph. Joseph is better period and you're wasting your time trying to convince me otherwise. I saw with my eyeballs for years and do not care what some sites stats say. Hall gets picked on period as is a number 2. Pre injury hall was getting burnt by fast wrs. Wallace and brown over in Pittsburgh took his will and it was all down hill from there.

Leon V Wallace in 2012: 1 catch on 3 targets, 2 yards.
2011: 0 targets, 0 catches. (missed a game)
2010: 7 targets, 5 catches, 135 yards.
2009: 3 targets, 1 catch, 8 yards.

Joseph:

2011: 1 target, 1 catch, 22 yards
2010: 2 targets, 2 catches, 30 yards. (missed a game)
2009: 7 targets, 6 catches, 115 yards.

I see a big difference between your golden boy and Leon.

That excuse never has, doesn't, and never will hold water; everyone gets burnt by a fast receiver here and there, Leon has been equal than Joseph (or in most cases, better), every year. Joseph has had one year better than Leon is their entire careers (2011), otherwise Leon has been markedly better EVERY year, and Leon has also seen the #1 receiver more in their careers. All fact btw.

Take a trip to your optometrist.

[Who2Dey]

Originally Posted by Truck_1_0_1_

Leon V Wallace in 2012: 1 catch on 3 targets, 2 yards.
2011: 0 targets, 0 catches. (missed a game)
2010: 7 targets, 5 catches, 135 yards.
2009: 3 targets, 1 catch, 8 yards.

Joseph:

2011: 1 target, 1 catch, 22 yards
2010: 2 targets, 2 catches, 30 yards. (missed a game)
2009: 7 targets, 6 catches, 115 yards.

I see a big difference between your golden boy and Leon.

That excuse never has, doesn't, and never will hold water; everyone gets burnt by a fast receiver here and there, Leon has been equal than Joseph (or in most cases, better), every year. Joseph has had one year better than Leon is their entire careers (2011), otherwise Leon has been markedly better EVERY year, and Leon has also seen the #1 receiver more in their careers. All fact btw.

Take a trip to your optometrist.

I said Wallace and brown...he's been burnt by both. Joseph has had lingering injuries throughout his career that skew his numbers...but you don't care about that either. You can't judge from a couple box scores. Neither hall or jjoe covered the same wr the entire game. When on the field Joseph is better. Go back to the stats. Fans that know the game know better.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by Truck_1_0_1_

Leon V Wallace in 2012: 1 catch on 3 targets, 2 yards.
2011: 0 targets, 0 catches. (missed a game)
2010: 7 targets, 5 catches, 135 yards.
2009: 3 targets, 1 catch, 8 yards.

Joseph:

2011: 1 target, 1 catch, 22 yards
2010: 2 targets, 2 catches, 30 yards. (missed a game)
2009: 7 targets, 6 catches, 115 yards.

I see a big difference between your golden boy and Leon.

That excuse never has, doesn't, and never will hold water; everyone gets burnt by a fast receiver here and there, Leon has been equal than Joseph (or in most cases, better), every year. Joseph has had one year better than Leon is their entire careers (2011), otherwise Leon has been markedly better EVERY year, and Leon has also seen the #1 receiver more in their careers. All fact btw.

Take a trip to your optometrist.

I disagree with you here. I always thought JJ was better. Didn't he usually line up at left corner? Where he would be taking on the AJ's and Calvin Johnson's of the NFL? Pretty sure he did.

[bengalfan74]

Hall is not among our problems, of which there are many. MLB, RB, SS, WR #2, C, DE

[TheLeonardLeap]

This thread is pretty ridiculous. The only decent CB on the Bengals is now "dog meat"? There was someone earlier saying among the needs for the Bengals next year are LT and C...

Whitworth had three penalties, but at least one of them were garbage, and didn't allow a single sack, while going against against Elvis Dumervil, a guy who has 58.5 sacks in 5.5 seasons, all while stooping like a hunchback to block a guy who is 8" shorter than him. The guy makes a living blanking James Harrison, Terrell Suggs twice a year each as well as generally the best pass rusher on every single other team. Yet all of a sudden one of the top 5 LTs in the league needs replaced?

I think people are rocking some awfully short memories right now. Cook is a pretty solid center. Is he All Pro? No. But he's better than average, consistently going up against Ngata/Hampton/Rubin 6 times a year and continually holding his own. He WILL be back, the C play WILL get better, take a deep breath over it. Injuries happen.

I think Leon Hall isn't even 1 year removed from an Achilles tear and will keep getting better, like a pitcher from Tommy John's surgery. Not to mention not having a viable starting CB across from him who can play 1-on-1 man coverage means that Zimmer has to use Leon differently from how he's used to. There's no more shoving the guy in his face on the line of scrimmage and then sticking to him. Now it's playing 10 yards off the guy at the snap. Nobody ever accused Leon of being a burner, but letting a fast WR a free release with the huge pillows they've been giving means they can get up to full speed, which is not good for Leon. I think it comes down to defensive scheme hurting him because they don't have another guy across from Leon who can do what they used to do.

Could the Bengals use better depth at DE than Geathers and Anderson? Most certainly... but are all the DEs garbage? Hardly. The Bengals don't get a sack for the first time in 32 games. That's TWO YEARS AGO. It was the longest active streak in the NFL. They were the leading sackers in the AFC, and 3rd in the NFL before Sunday.

So are there places that the Bengals desperately need to get better on? Yes. That doesn't mean people should start jumping on every single player, including the talented ones, though. The way some of these people are, they want to literally just cut every single player besides Green and Atkins and build a team entirely from scratch suddenly. Good luck with that. Sure some of the guys won't find a job and will have to be on the couch instead of on the field, but I am sure there's just as many if not more players who will find some other team happy to give them a starting job where they'd beat up on your 96% new team.

Ridiculous.

[Lolli]

I did not read through the thread. It seemed strange to me to beat up on the best DB we have. Normally you should focus on the worst starter...

Hall is within the top 25 easy. He needs somebody who is equal to him or better for us to have an above average tandem. That person is not on the team.

I think Jones is a decent NB.