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View Poll Results: What do you do with the pick?
Stay put and take the best. 5 35.71%
Trade down and stock up. 8 57.14%
Hell with it, trade up and get an elite player. 1 7.14%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 11-05-2012, 02:01 PM
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Default trade back or not?

Currently we are picking in the 12th slot amongst a glut of 3-5 teams. Based on how the league is looking so far we should realistically finish in the 9-11 slot. That is assuming that some 3-5 teams like Dallas, Eagles, and Jets pick up a few more wins. Historically this has been the cat birds seat in terms of trades. Given our immediate need at 7 different spots (RB, WR, C, DE, LB, CB, S); of which I would list DE, S, LB RB as the top 4, do you consider a trade back as a serious option. I am leaning more towards trading back than I had been before.

At this spot in the draft we should be faced with the choice of Teo, Montgomery, Milliner, Warmack, Barkley, and Woods. We could easily pick up an immediate impact player at this point. But given the dearth of talent across the board I think we need to consider a trade down to the mid 20s. At this point we still can land an immediate starter but can also pick up a lower 2nd round pick as compensation for some team filling one spot they feel is missing. Such as Denver picking up Milliner or the Giants getting Teo as examples.

So, do you give up on the top 10 to get a mid 20s pick and another second round pick. Or do you stay put and try and take the best you can get for at least 1 spot?
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We asked him about the time he fumbled without being hit and the time he threw an interception without being pressured and the other pick he threw -- under pressure but stupidly off his back foot toward double coverage. All of that happened on three consecutive possession, a 10-minute fusillade of fail that turned a one-possession game into a blowout loss...

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Old 11-05-2012, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: trade back or not?

As a general principal, more picks is better.

That said, I can't make the call until draft time. If, say, Jarvis Jones is still available, no way do I trade back. If there is a difference maker available, take him.
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Old 11-05-2012, 03:49 PM
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Default Re: trade back or not?

Really depends who is available in my opinion. There's a few players that are elite prospects (Jones, Lotulelei, Hankins, Mingo, Milliner) and then it drops off considerably. If one of them are available when we pick, go for it, if not I say trade back and get better value.
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Old 11-05-2012, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: trade back or not?

Could trade back twice and even pick up more as far as I'm concerned. But i agree that we have to see who is there 1st.

If we finish with the 8th pick in the draft....the pick is worth 16 and 50 per the trade chart. If we then trade down at 16...the trade chart says it's worth 26 and 60. So the 8th pick in the draft is conceivably worth 26, 50 and 60 to go along with our current 2 2nds. We would have a 1st and 4 2nds.

What would a late 1st and 4 2nds get?

1. Alex Okafor..de
2. Giovani Bernard..rb
2. Khaseem Greene..olb
2. Cordarrelle Patterson..wr
2. Robert Lester..s..or maybe Khaled Holmes...c...or a cb

Of course whether you agree with that or not, and have different players in mind, it's all pipe dream stuff. Nonetheless trading down with all the needs we have might be best for this club.

Last edited by goalpost; 11-05-2012 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 11-05-2012, 04:39 PM
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Default Re: trade back or not?

Bjoern Werner!
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Old 11-05-2012, 04:58 PM
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Default Re: trade back or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goalpost View Post
Could trade back twice and even pick up more as far as I'm concerned. But i agree that we have to see who is there 1st.

If we finish with the 8th pick in the draft....the pick is worth 16 and 50 per the trade chart. If we then trade down at 16...the trade chart says it's worth 26 and 60. So the 8th pick in the draft is conceivably worth 26, 50 and 60 to go along with our current 2 2nds. We would have a 1st and 4 2nds.

What would a late 1st and 4 2nds get?

1. Alex Okafor..de
2. Giovani Bernard..rb
2. Khaseem Greene..olb
2. Cordarrelle Patterson..wr
2. Robert Lester..s..or maybe Khaled Holmes...c...or a cb

Of course whether you agree with that or not, and have different players in mind, it's all pipe dream stuff. Nonetheless trading down with all the needs we have might be best for this club.
The players differ but my thoughts are fairly similar to yours. I was playing with the trade chart and with a Chris Perry type trade down we could eaisly pick up an extra 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. Hopefully we would not get burned like we did passing on Steven Jackson.
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We asked him about the time he fumbled without being hit and the time he threw an interception without being pressured and the other pick he threw -- under pressure but stupidly off his back foot toward double coverage. All of that happened on three consecutive possession, a 10-minute fusillade of fail that turned a one-possession game into a blowout loss...

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Old 11-05-2012, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: trade back or not?

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Originally Posted by Burma View Post
Currently we are picking in the 12th slot amongst a glut of 3-5 teams. Based on how the league is looking so far we should realistically finish in the 9-11 slot. That is assuming that some 3-5 teams like Dallas, Eagles, and Jets pick up a few more wins. Historically this has been the cat bird’s seat in terms of trades. Given our immediate need at 7 different spots (RB, WR, C, DE, LB, CB, S); of which I would list DE, S, LB RB as the top 4, do you consider a trade back as a serious option. I am leaning more towards trading back than I had been before.

At this spot in the draft we should be faced with the choice of Te’o, Montgomery, Milliner, Warmack, Barkley, and Woods. We could easily pick up an immediate impact player at this point. But given the dearth of talent across the board I think we need to consider a trade down to the mid 20s. At this point we still can land an immediate starter but can also pick up a lower 2nd round pick as compensation for some team filling one spot they feel is missing. Such as Denver picking up Milliner or the Giants getting Te’o as examples.

So, do you give up on the top 10 to get a mid 20s pick and another second round pick. Or do you stay put and try and take the best you can get for at least 1 spot?
I will be highly surprised if we pick outside the top 10. Fill a hole with an elite player. If it takes a trade up, do it. Don't trade down. Don't try to get more players, try to get better players.

Last edited by McC; 11-06-2012 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: trade back or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burma View Post
Currently we are picking in the 12th slot amongst a glut of 3-5 teams. Based on how the league is looking so far we should realistically finish in the 9-11 slot. That is assuming that some 3-5 teams like Dallas, Eagles, and Jets pick up a few more wins. Historically this has been the cat birds seat in terms of trades. Given our immediate need at 7 different spots (RB, WR, C, DE, LB, CB, S); of which I would list DE, S, LB RB as the top 4, do you consider a trade back as a serious option. I am leaning more towards trading back than I had been before.

At this spot in the draft we should be faced with the choice of Teo, Montgomery, Milliner, Warmack, Barkley, and Woods. We could easily pick up an immediate impact player at this point. But given the dearth of talent across the board I think we need to consider a trade down to the mid 20s. At this point we still can land an immediate starter but can also pick up a lower 2nd round pick as compensation for some team filling one spot they feel is missing. Such as Denver picking up Milliner or the Giants getting Teo as examples.

So, do you give up on the top 10 to get a mid 20s pick and another second round pick. Or do you stay put and try and take the best you can get for at least 1 spot?
If we wind up picking that high,then we need to get an elite talent,plain and simple. You have 7 different spots as needs. However,a couple of those simply will not be addressed this offseason. The Bengals gave Cook a big extension not long ago,and he's been hurt this year. The club believes in Cook,and also likes Robinson's upside,but acknowledges he needs time to bulk up. There will be no C forthcoming in FA or the draft,unless it's a late rounder to groom on the PS. We won't go CB high,either. They are paying Hall $10+ mill a year,Allen $4+ mill a year,and just spent a 1st on Dre. The Bengals just spent a 3rd rounder on Sanu and a 5th on Marvin Jones,and both of those guys have shown flashes,so they may not be looking WR high,either.

Realistically,spots we need an upgrade the club would realistically look at are DE[could be higher or lower priority depending on if they resign MJ and/or Geathers],MLB[Rey stinks and is an UFA],SLB[Manny Lawson stinks and is an UFA],SS[Crocker stinks and is an UFA],and RB[BJGE is nothing more than a short yardage back]. RT also becomes a need if the club doesn't resign Andre Smith.

Te'o would be tough to pass on,if there. Huge upgrade at one of our biggest weak points. He also allows Burfict to continue to develop at WLB,where he's shown flashes,without us having to worry if he can translate to MLB. If we land a serviceable SLB in FA,then our LB corps,which has been a huge weakpoint in our defense this year,becomes an area of strength. Taylor Lewan is also tempting,if Andre leaves. Te'o in the 1st,a SS in the 2nd like Florida's Matt Elam,and a 2nd round RB fix a lot of holes.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:44 PM
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Default Re: trade back or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goalpost View Post
Could trade back twice and even pick up more as far as I'm concerned. But i agree that we have to see who is there 1st.

If we finish with the 8th pick in the draft....the pick is worth 16 and 50 per the trade chart. If we then trade down at 16...the trade chart says it's worth 26 and 60. So the 8th pick in the draft is conceivably worth 26, 50 and 60 to go along with our current 2 2nds. We would have a 1st and 4 2nds.

What would a late 1st and 4 2nds get?

1. Alex Okafor..de
2. Giovani Bernard..rb
2. Khaseem Greene..olb
2. Cordarrelle Patterson..wr
2. Robert Lester..s..or maybe Khaled Holmes...c...or a cb

Of course whether you agree with that or not, and have different players in mind, it's all pipe dream stuff. Nonetheless trading down with all the needs we have might be best for this club.
The Bengals traded back in 2012 and received an additional 3rd round pick.

It seems to me if the Bengals trade back twice, then they will get 2 additional 3rd rounders.

I am tempted to trade back once or twice.

WTS, the Bengals are desparate for playmakers. Staying pat, they should be able to land a pass rushing DE in the 1st and a SS & RB in the 2nd.

Adding these 3 playmakers would seriously change a lot about the Bengals.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:37 AM
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Default Re: trade back or not?

Just too many holes in this team to stand pat on draft day. The team will refuse to fill holes in FA so the draft will have to be the place. The team will have massive unused cap space once again.

The Bengals will likely draft in the top 5 when all is said and done. The team has games left against NYG, KC, Oakland, SD, Dallas, Phili, Pitt and Baltimore. Unless the team decides to play better they'll be underdogs in each of those games. Let's just be honest about how pathetic this team is playing. Losing to the worst team in the league, losses to two rookie QBs, blowing leads, poor coverage, non-existent running game. Yuk. It's a recipe for losing.

The two games the team has best chance to win are KC and Phili. But the Bengals seem to be good at finding ways to lose. I have the Bengals favored against Phili, not because I believe the Bengals should win, but more because Phili is better at being inept in games. Dallas might be a win too, if Romo has one of his magical 3 INT gift games. Still, best case at this point is a 5 win season, but I believe that's being overly generous.

Last edited by BengalChris; 11-06-2012 at 12:41 AM.
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:48 AM
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Default Re: trade back or not?

If Sam Montgomery or Bjorn Werner or Te'o is there when we pick around the 10 spot, you take one of the three. DE and MLB are two of our top needs and those three listed are the best at their positions. If we trade back, we are essentially passing up a DAY ONE STARTER for a third round bench player. Granted, we will pick up someone in the first round, but his talent level wont be near any of the three I have listed.

If those three are gone when we pick, which I dont think will happen, then you trade back. Doesnt matter though. This team and organization is so F***ed up that it wont matter. Nothing will change until we have a New Owner, New General Manager and a New Coaching Staff.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:12 AM
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I have a different thought than anyones on here so far. I am actually in favor of taking the BPA in round 1 (Werner, Te'o, ect.) and trading up in the 2nd round to make sure that we get not only our SS but also our RB. The second round is where the RB talent is going to land along with some very good SS. I would trade our 4th and 5th round picks to move up in the 2nd round or into the back end of the 1st round. We have to pick up 3 of these 4 positions on draft day that are starter caliber: DE, LB, SS, RB. If we resign our DE's then the draft should/could play out this way.

1. Manti Te'o Notre Dame MLB
2a. Matt Elam Florida Safety
2b. Giovani Bernard North Carolina RB
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:16 AM
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Default Re: trade back or not?

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Originally Posted by Stewee28 View Post
If Sam Montgomery or Bjorn Werner or Te'o is there when we pick around the 10 spot, you take one of the three. DE and MLB are two of our top needs and those three listed are the best at their positions. If we trade back, we are essentially passing up a DAY ONE STARTER for a third round bench player. Granted, we will pick up someone in the first round, but his talent level wont be near any of the three I have listed.
I have a similar opinion. My players differ though, but I have 3 elite players that if all are gone I consider trading back.

Also based on the trade chart, which still held true last year, if we are picking at 10 trading back to any point 18 or later nets us at least a second. And trading to any point 22 or later nets us a 2nd and a 3rd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengalsman1983 View Post
I have a different thought than anyones on here so far. I am actually in favor of taking the BPA in round 1 (Werner, Te'o, ect.) and trading up in the 2nd round to make sure that we get not only our SS but also our RB. The second round is where the RB talent is going to land along with some very good SS. I would trade our 4th and 5th round picks to move up in the 2nd round or into the back end of the 1st round. We have to pick up 3 of these 4 positions on draft day that are starter caliber: DE, LB, SS, RB. If we resign our DE's then the draft should/could play out this way.

1. Manti Te'o Notre Dame MLB
2a. Matt Elam Florida Safety
2b. Giovani Bernard North Carolina RB
Given the great depth and value in the 2nd this year that is not a bad idea at all. I would even consider a trade back and a trade up to net us 4 2nds.
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We asked him about the time he fumbled without being hit and the time he threw an interception without being pressured and the other pick he threw -- under pressure but stupidly off his back foot toward double coverage. All of that happened on three consecutive possession, a 10-minute fusillade of fail that turned a one-possession game into a blowout loss...


Last edited by Burma; 11-06-2012 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:50 AM
mulligan mulligan is offline
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Originally Posted by Burma View Post
I have a similar opinion. My players differ though, but I have 3 elite players that if all are gone I consider trading back.

Also based on the trade chart, which still held true last year, if we are picking at 10 trading back to any point 18 or later nets us at least a second. And trading to any point 22 or later nets us a 2nd and a 3rd.



Given the great depth and value in the 2nd this year that is not a bad idea at all. I would even consider a trade back and a trade up to net us 4 2nds.
If the Bengals trade back twice, I still only see it netting them an extra 2nd & 3rd round picks. 1st - Barrett Jones. 2nd - RB, SS, SAM. 3rd - DE, CB/WR/RB

Dallas traded their 14th pick to get the 6th overall with the Rams. It resulted in the Rams getting the 14th overall and then Dallas' 2nd round pick.

Trading back from the 14th pick would probably result in an additional 3rd rounder.

I don't see a scenario where the Bengals could get four 2nd rounders. Rather, a late 1st rounder, three 2nd rounders (Oakland trade), and two 3rd rounders.

Though not against trading back, my concern is that trading back twice will result in the Bengals missing all the playmakers and adding player depth but not adding starters.

Maybe we could trade back once, grab an extra 2nd and still net a 1st round playmaker.

Last edited by mulligan; 11-06-2012 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:24 AM
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Default Re: trade back or not?

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Originally Posted by mulligan View Post
If the Bengals trade back twice, I still only see it netting them an extra 2nd & 3rd round picks.

Dallas traded their 14th pick to get the 6th overall with the Rams. It resulted in the Rams getting the 14th overall and then Dallas' 2nd round pick.

Trading back from the 14th pick would probably result in an additional 3rd rounder.

I don't see a scenario where the Bengals could get four 2nd rounders. Rather, a late 1st rounder, three 2nd rounders (Oakland trade), and two 3rd rounders.

Though not against trading back, my concern is that trading back twice will result in the Bengals missing all the playmakers and adding player depth but not adding starters.

Maybe we could trade back once, grab an extra 2nd and still net a 1st round playmaker.
Sorry, I wasn't very clear on that. I didn't mean getting 2 2nds just from trading back. Rather, I meant getting 1 from trading back and a 3rd. Then packaging a 3rd and something else to move back into the 2nd. It's unlikely but a fun exercise in draft wheeling and dealing for me
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We asked him about the time he fumbled without being hit and the time he threw an interception without being pressured and the other pick he threw -- under pressure but stupidly off his back foot toward double coverage. All of that happened on three consecutive possession, a 10-minute fusillade of fail that turned a one-possession game into a blowout loss...

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Old 11-06-2012, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Burma View Post
Sorry, I wasn't very clear on that. I didn't mean getting 2 2nd juat from trading back. Rather I meant getting 1 from trading back and a 3rd. Then packaging a 3rd and something else to move back into the 2nd. It's unlikely but a fun exercise in draft wheeling and dealing for me
Gotcha. And I agree with unlikely! :-)

WTS, with trading back twice, here is a scenario. 1st - Barrett Jones. 2nd - RB, SS, SAM. 3rd - DE & BPA of CB/WR/RB
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