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Old 10-22-2012, 01:48 PM
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Burma Burma is offline
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Default Safeties

We are looking at one of, if not, the best safety classes in recent memory. We all know we have had piles of excrement at safety for as long as most of us can recall and that we have a dire need at strong safety. I think, however, that we also have a need at FS as well. Reggie nelson has been lauded as a very good safety for us… for us… compared to the rest of the league he is average. From Pff’s free agent report on him last year…

Quote:
3) Reggie Nelson, Cincinnati Bengals
Age: 28
2011 Grade: -3.1
Key Stat: Had the fourth-highest Pass Rushing Productivity for safeties at 19.1.
Behind the numbers: After some disappointing years in Jacksonville, Nelson picked his play up in Cincinnati, evening out as an average safety. In the majority of his games, he allowed either no catches or a very short catch, but found room to give up a few big plays. He started the season strong with 12 stops in the first four games, but finished with just 13 in the last 13 games. He has shown signs of being a worthy safety (and signs of falling apart). May be worth the risk.
This mirrors what we are seeing this year from him as well. He rushes the passer well, and can hit, and will make a nice play on the ball like last night where he knocked the ball loose from the Steelers tight end. Then in the same game he kind of mentally wanders off and gets beat deep. He is upgradeable and this is the year to do it.

We have 4 very solid FS choices. We could go with the round 1 stud in Eric Reid, or the do it all T.J. Mcdonald and Tony Jefferson in 2. Or we can gamble a bit on the ball hawking Rambo in the 3rd. Personally, I am tired of having question marks in our backfield and I am starting to hope we look at adding 2 safeties in this draft, but is it feasible? Where would you take them? I am leaning towards a first 4 picks which look like S, DE, OLB, S. which has us taking Reid as the first safety and Robert Lester as the 2nd safety.

That is of course assuming Dee Milliner and Sam Montgomery, and Bjeorn Werner are off the board before our first. If Milliner or Montgomery are still there then my first 4 would look like CB/DE, OLB, S,S with the 2 safeties being Jefferson and Lester

What do you think? 1 safety? 2? Do you want to see a do it all guy, or a cover 1 type safety?

To help with your decision making I have included some very good break downs of the available safeties courtesy of http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com
Ignore the first few paragraphs of each as they are really how the pick relates to NE, but the following break downs are very good.

Eric Reid:
http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2012/...tml#more-18506
a few quotes:

Quote:
Reid’s diverse skill-set allows him to function as a single-high safety in deep zone coverage, as an in-the-box run defender, and in man coverage on tight ends or inside wide receivers; safety is now a premium position in the NFL as teams are looking for well-rounded players who can defend the influx of young, athletic tight ends, and Reid’s skillset will appeal to every team in the league.
Quote:
Reid is also a quality run defender. Because of his size, he is a forceful hitter who explodes into ballcarriers and can separate runners from the ball (see the fumble he forced against Alabama RB Trent Richardson in the first quarter of their regular-season matchup.) Reid’s tackling technique is sound; he possesses fundamental tackling skills although he does go for the knockout blow at times.
Tony Jefferson:
http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2012/...jefferson.html
A few quotes:

Quote:
Jefferson’s ability to change directions smoothly suggests the potential to develop into a quality coverage safety, although at times Jefferson’s route recognition appears to be raw and he allows too many completions when targeted. NFL teams are increasingly asking their safeties to cover inside wide receivers in the slot and Jefferson has extensive experience in that phase of the game as well, although his lack of size and bulk may prevent him from matching up effectively on larger tight ends.
Quote:
Jefferson’s ball skills are a strength of his game; he is occasionally a split-second late in making a play but has already grabbed six interceptions in two years despite his extensive in-the-box responsibilities. Jefferson’s backpedal is fairly quick, although he gets high at times and improving his technique in that area should be a coaching point upon reaching the NFL.
Kenny Vaccaro
http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2012/...hort-list.html
A few quotes:

Quote:
Vaccaro’s fluidity as well as his instincts allow him to shadow quicker receivers while his size makes him a difficult matchup for bigger receivers as well. New England’s defensive schemes often ask their safeties to line up in the slot and cover wide receivers.
Quote:
Despite his size Vaccaro has primarily been given coverage assignments rather than being asked to line up in the box and defend the run. Vaccaro can often be found in the slot defending an inside receiver. From this position Texas has asked him to execute both man and zone coverages, two responsibilities which he has been able to perform effectively.
Robert Lester: (not a full analysis yet, but still good)
http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/tag/robert-lester

#37 FS Robert Lester
-Playing a variety of different defensive back positions – deep half, single high, star.
-Pressing the slot receiver, gets a good jam in.
-Physical shedding the block from receiver, helps turn the play back inside.
-Man coverage, disrupts the ball at the high point.
-Comes on safety blitz, disrupts the timing of the screen.
-Nice break on the ball, wraps up for a solid tackle.
Overview: Lester played all over the field and did a lot of different things for the Crimson Tide defense. He looked good covering the slot, covering a deep half, playing as a single high safety, as well as supporting the run. He doesn’t have 4.4 speed, but Lester’s versatility will be a great asset in the NFL.
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We asked him about the time he fumbled without being hit and the time he threw an interception without being pressured and the other pick he threw -- under pressure but stupidly off his back foot toward double coverage. All of that happened on three consecutive possession, a 10-minute fusillade of fail that turned a one-possession game into a blowout loss...


Last edited by Burma; 10-22-2012 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:23 PM
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Default Re: Safeties

Are you saying you want to start 2 rookie safeties?

Seattle did with Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor, but they were extremely fortunate that both of them panned out so well.

I say we focus on shoring up SS this draft, and address FS down the line.

And as far as safety prospects, I haven't watched nearly enough college football to give an opinion on any of them.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:30 PM
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Default Re: Safeties

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Originally Posted by Archer View Post
Are you saying you want to start 2 rookie safeties?

Seattle did with Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor, but they were extremely fortunate that both of them panned out so well.

I say we focus on shoring up SS this draft, and address FS down the line.

And as far as safety prospects, I haven't watched nearly enough college football to give an opinion on any of them.
No, start rookie SS. Let rookie FS sit behind Nelson for a year. As to one or the other I thought about that, but the quality at the top of this safety class is incredibly good. Mark Barron, last years #1 safety would probably be hard pressed to make the 2nd tier of safeties this year. If we can take a perennial problem spot and fix it for the next 6 years than it is something to possibly consider.
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We asked him about the time he fumbled without being hit and the time he threw an interception without being pressured and the other pick he threw -- under pressure but stupidly off his back foot toward double coverage. All of that happened on three consecutive possession, a 10-minute fusillade of fail that turned a one-possession game into a blowout loss...

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: Safeties

David Amerson might also move to safety come April and probably would be considered a top notch player at that position. Also considering he played Corner in college might give him an upper hand on these other guys.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: Safeties

I like Vaccaro, Rambo and Lester.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:29 PM
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Default Re: Safeties

Quote:
Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
I like Vaccaro, Rambo and Lester.
would you take 2 of them this year or do you trust Ñelson enough to keep him long term?
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We asked him about the time he fumbled without being hit and the time he threw an interception without being pressured and the other pick he threw -- under pressure but stupidly off his back foot toward double coverage. All of that happened on three consecutive possession, a 10-minute fusillade of fail that turned a one-possession game into a blowout loss...

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: Safeties

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Originally Posted by Burma View Post
would you take 2 of them this year or do you trust Ñelson enough to keep him long term?
Depends on when. We have too many other needs to take them all early.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: Safeties

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Originally Posted by J24 View Post
David Amerson might also move to safety come April and probably would be considered a top notch player at that position. Also considering he played Corner in college might give him an upper hand on these other guys.
That would just make an already blah corner back class that much worse. I can see him switching, its certainly possible, but this is one of the worst CB in quite some time.
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We asked him about the time he fumbled without being hit and the time he threw an interception without being pressured and the other pick he threw -- under pressure but stupidly off his back foot toward double coverage. All of that happened on three consecutive possession, a 10-minute fusillade of fail that turned a one-possession game into a blowout loss...

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: Safeties

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Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
Depends on when. We have too many other needs to take them all early.
Realisticaly It would probably have to be Lester with #2 2nd and Rambo with our 3rd.
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We asked him about the time he fumbled without being hit and the time he threw an interception without being pressured and the other pick he threw -- under pressure but stupidly off his back foot toward double coverage. All of that happened on three consecutive possession, a 10-minute fusillade of fail that turned a one-possession game into a blowout loss...

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Safeties

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Originally Posted by Burma View Post
Realisticaly It would probably have to be Lester with #2 2nd and Rambo with our 3rd.
Yeah IDK if I would do that.
I like both guys but I am a fan of winning up front which we don't do on a consistent basis.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: Safeties

The way it's looking we might be in a position to draft Werner, but yeah, we need to take a safety early, preferably the 2nd round.

I would crap myself if we could somehow get Werner, Te'o and Rambo. It's a long shot, but not really out of the realm of possibility and should shore up the defense for a while.
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Old 10-22-2012, 07:41 PM
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Default Re: Safeties

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Originally Posted by J24 View Post
David Amerson might also move to safety come April and probably would be considered a top notch player at that position. Also considering he played Corner in college might give him an upper hand on these other guys.
I love me some Amerson, but he projects more to FS, and I don't think we can afford to spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on a position that isn't a huge need.
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Old 11-05-2012, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: Safeties

Well as this season progresses the less confident I have become in Nelson and the more enamored I have become with Rambo. The kid is a ball hawk and fun to watch. I think at this point with this safety class you have to really consider if Nelson's play is worth his contract.
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We asked him about the time he fumbled without being hit and the time he threw an interception without being pressured and the other pick he threw -- under pressure but stupidly off his back foot toward double coverage. All of that happened on three consecutive possession, a 10-minute fusillade of fail that turned a one-possession game into a blowout loss...

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Old 11-05-2012, 08:51 PM
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Default Re: Safeties

We have a recently drafted S on IR another one who doesn't play. Wouldn't surprise me at all if there are NO S's drafted. Would pizz me off but wouldn't surprise me a bit.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:51 PM
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Default Re: Safeties

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Originally Posted by Burma View Post
Well as this season progresses the less confident I have become in Nelson and the more enamored I have become with Rambo. The kid is a ball hawk and fun to watch. I think at this point with this safety class you have to really consider if Nelson's play is worth his contract.

Yea....agree 110%. Rambo would be the one Id like to grab. He is all over the place. I pray we get lucky enough to grab him in the 3rd.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:16 AM
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Default Re: Safeties

My pick for SS is Shawn Williams. The OTHER Georgia Safety:

From NFL Draft Scout:
Quote:
08/21/12 - Top-five Georgia prospects for the 2013 NFL Draft: 4. SS Shawn Williams...While his partner in the deep patrol -- free safety Bacarri Rambo -- gets most of the headlines due to his ball skills (eight INTs last season), Williams is also an accomplished pass thief (four INTs last year), a more consistent open field tackler and is highly regarded by the coaching staff for his selfless play, toughness and versatility. Like most prospects at a program boasting as much individual talent as Georgia, Williams initially made his mark on special teams, earning recognition in this role during both his true freshman and sophomore seasons. He saw his first starting action in 2010, earning the nod three times while playing in all 13 games and recording 34 tackles on the year. Despite entering his junior season with only these three career starts, Williams was named a team captain last season. He showed the leadership traits coaches love when he switched from his customary strong safety position to inside linebacker when injuries took their toll on the team early last year. Starting 13 of 14 games for the Bulldogs last season, Williams led the team with 72 tackles, including five for loss. Along with the four interceptions, Williams also broke up six passes, recovered two fumbles and forced another. The broad-shouldered Williams looks and tackles like a linebacker but moves well, showing enough agility to handle coverage responsibilities. His coaches have compared him to former Georgia safety/outside linebacker Thomas Davis, who was selected with the No. 14 overall pick of the 2005 draft by the Carolina Panthers. - Rob Rang, NFLDraftScout.com

08/08/12 - The dirty little secret around the team is that while fellow safety Bacarri Rambo was an All-American last year, thanks mostly to his eight interceptions, Williams was just as good. It was Williams who led the team in tackles. It was Williams who excelled in pass coverage as well as blitzing, and provided big hits." You know Rambo, we all know, is a great player. People have voted him as an AP first-team All-American. But Shawn Williams, I think he's a great football player as well," head coach Mark Richt said. "And I think Shawn's going to have a tremendous year, and I think he's going to play football for a long time. Whoever gets him (in the NFL) is just going to love that guy. I think he's a special player as well." Linebacker Jarvis Jones (Carver), himself an All-American last year, echoed that." He didn't really get a lot of credit. But he's a ball-hawk, a guy that plays with a lot of passion. He pushes me on the field." Defensive coordinator Todd Grantham, with his 11 years of recent experience in the NFL, is confident that Williams will be there next year, and well after that." I think Shawn can play in the NFL. I think Shawn is a guy who is kind of like our defense, I mean that's tough, he's physical, he's got a little nastiness to him. He goes about his business. He has a lot of pride in his work and he wants to win everything." Grantham said. "He's got a bright future, not only for us but down the road too." - Seth Emerson, The Ledger-Enquirer
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:49 AM
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Default Re: Safeties

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer View Post
I love me some Amerson, but he projects more to FS, and I don't think we can afford to spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on a position that isn't a huge need.
Curious here. It seems that many posters conclude that college prospects project to be "better suited" in a different NFL position than their historical collegiate position.

How many NFL examples of players have been switched from CB to Safety or vice versa? I vaguely recall one NFC player out west that did the switch?

Is this common? Or just common message board fodder?
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:56 AM
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Default Re: Safeties

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Originally Posted by Burma View Post
We are looking at one of, if not, the best safety classes in recent memory. We all know we have had piles of excrement at safety for as long as most of us can recall and that we have a dire need at strong safety. I think, however, that we also have a need at FS as well. Reggie nelson has been lauded as a very good safety for us… for us… compared to the rest of the league he is average. From Pff’s free agent report on him last year…



This mirrors what we are seeing this year from him as well. He rushes the passer well, and can hit, and will make a nice play on the ball like last night where he knocked the ball loose from the Steelers tight end. Then in the same game he kind of mentally wanders off and gets beat deep. He is upgradeable and this is the year to do it.
I do not agree with this accessment of Reggie Nelson at all. In 2012, Reggie has been solid.

Arguably outside of Geno Atkins, I feel that Reggie has been our best & most consistant defender.
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Old 11-06-2012, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: Safeties

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Originally Posted by mulligan View Post
I do not agree with this accessment of Reggie Nelson at all. In 2012, Reggie has been solid.

Arguably outside of Geno Atkins, I feel that Reggie has been our best & most consistant defender.
For me it goes Geno, MJ, Nelson. Now having said that he is one of the top 3 defenders on our team, doesn't mean he is highly ranked by other standards. I think he is a solid middle of the road player who has ups and downs on a regular basis. Able to be upgraded upon, but not crucial to do so. This draft just happens to be loaded with play makers at his position making taking a player like TJ McDonald, Jefferson, or Rambo very attractive.
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We asked him about the time he fumbled without being hit and the time he threw an interception without being pressured and the other pick he threw -- under pressure but stupidly off his back foot toward double coverage. All of that happened on three consecutive possession, a 10-minute fusillade of fail that turned a one-possession game into a blowout loss...

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Old 11-07-2012, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: Safeties

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burma View Post
For me it goes Geno, MJ, Nelson. Now having said that he is one of the top 3 defenders on our team, doesn't mean he is highly ranked by other standards. I think he is a solid middle of the road player who has ups and downs on a regular basis. Able to be upgraded upon, but not crucial to do so. This draft just happens to be loaded with play makers at his position making taking a player like TJ McDonald, Jefferson, or Rambo very attractive.
To me, It is Geno, then Nelson. Nelson makes plays.

I totally agree to adding a Strong Safety via the 2013 draft.

As for the concept of drafting a 2nd safety to "upgrade" Reggie Nelson, this would be idiotic.

There are WAY too many needs on this team. Upgrade MIKE, upgrade SAM, upgrade NT, etc.

I think that there can be a sound argument that outside of UT (Atkins) & FS (Nelson), every defensive position could be upgraded. And this isn't even considering the needed and optional upgrade on offense.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:11 AM
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Default Re: Safeties

It really depends on how you plan on using your safeties. If we are going to use a lot of man coverage with our SS, I would have no problem taking a converted CB.
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