I miss the 2011 Dalton

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by BengalRugby

Kelly was a great blocking TE, but a receiver he was not.

In 7 seasons as a Bengal:
126 catches
973 yards
3 tds

In the 1.5 seasons Gresham has played with Dalton, he's almost matched catches, surpassed yards, and damn near tripled the receiving TDs.

90 catches
1029 yards
8 tds

For all the hate Gresham gets, he's still one of the best receiving TEs this team has had in a LONG time.


Kelly had better hands.

Check out his catch percentages versus Gresham's...


I think what you mean to say is that the Bengals now use the TE for more than just being another o-lineman. And still I don't think they use him enough.

I guess, but it really doesn't matter how good Kelly was at catching the ball if the Bengals rarely used him as such.

[Shake n Blake]

I would like to know why people think we're scoring 23.6 points per game. Cuz it sure as heck ain't because of our run game. If our defense was playing at the level they did last year, we would have a winning record right now and everyone would be on Dalton's jock.

[fozzie11]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

I would like to know why people think we're scoring 23.6 points per game. Cuz it sure as heck ain't because of our run game. If our defense was playing at the level they did last year, we would have a winning record right now and everyone would be on Dalton's jock.

i for one am completely behind Dalton and think people need to get off his back a bit, but it is harder for the defense when we have really fast three and outs plus the interceptions. people do need to realize that this is a very young team and we do have a lot of potential.

[wildcatnku24]

Originally Posted by fozzie11

i for one am completely behind Dalton and think people need to get off his back a bit, but it is harder for the defense when we have really fast three and outs plus the interceptions. people do need to realize that this is a very young team and we do have a lot of potential.

Dalton for president!

Wait... too much?

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by fozzie11

i for one am completely behind Dalton and think people need to get off his back a bit, but it is harder for the defense when we have really fast three and outs plus the interceptions. people do need to realize that this is a very young team and we do have a lot of potential.

It has nothing to do with being young really. An inept HC and the lack of a ground game is the main problem on offense. This team would easily be .500 if BGE could manage even slightly better numbers.

[David From Cincy]

Originally Posted by ibengals

Dalton hasn't changed. He's the exact same quarterback he was last year, with a little stronger arm; not much though. Last year he made a living on the short yardage throws, and now teams expect it. Doesn't help that we have zero running game either.

That's my thoughts in a nutshell.

[BigPapaKain]

I miss the positive attitude from 4 weeks ago.

[David From Cincy]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

I would like to know why people think we're scoring 23.6 points per game. Cuz it sure as heck ain't because of our run game. If our defense was playing at the level they did last year, we would have a winning record right now and everyone would be on Dalton's jock.

I disagree. I remember Carson Palmer having a similar year that ended in a playoff berth and people were ready to have him shot.

I hate how people seem to think you are either behind a player (and this a fan) or a "hater". Why can people not voice the slightest concern or disappointment in a player without being lambasted or labeled in some fashion?

Better yet why do we treat this guy like the golden boy. Can we ever mention anything about him or is he going to be Palmer jr. Where all we do is make excuses for the guy until he says he wants to leave at which point we attack?

[BengaliJack]

Lemme tell you where we stink......THE PASS RUSH!!!! THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED ASAP!! Peyton and Big Ben both had all day to throw and I think both left the field clean as a whistle. Big Ben got his feathers ruffled a little but I know Peyton never got touched.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by David From Cincy

I disagree. I remember Carson Palmer having a similar year that ended in a playoff berth and people were ready to have him shot.

I hate how people seem to think you are either behind a player (and this a fan) or a "hater". Why can people not voice the slightest concern or disappointment in a player without being lambasted or labeled in some fashion?

Better yet why do we treat this guy like the golden boy. Can we ever mention anything about him or is he going to be Palmer jr. Where all we do is make excuses for the guy until he says he wants to leave at which point we attack?

Not sure what you're talking about. Criticism of Carson Palmer wasn't overwhelming until 2010. We missed the playoffs that year, and Palmer was playing worse than Dalton is now.

I understand that the team is losing and that Dalton has 11 picks in 8 games. But it's silly and lazy to assume the picks are the reason for our current losing ways. I'm fine with critiqueing Dalton. I've mentioned myself that I think he's pressing too much when we're behind. But there's way too many people on here calling for Dalton's head, saying they miss Carson, talking about Matt Barkley etc.

How about we try to get a good RB for once, hire a fresh new HC etc. before we go throwing away a pro bowl QB who is showing signs of progress in his 2nd season? Another thing that bothers me is that people want to focus only on the picks while ignoring his other numbers, which are fantastic.

[Joelist]

Originally Posted by BengalRugby

Kelly was a great blocking TE, but a receiver he was not.

In 7 seasons as a Bengal:
126 catches
973 yards
3 tds

In the 1.5 seasons Gresham has played with Dalton, he's almost matched catches, surpassed yards, and damn near tripled the receiving TDs.

90 catches
1029 yards
8 tds

For all the hate Gresham gets, he's still one of the best receiving TEs this team has had in a LONG time.


Kelly had better hands.

Check out his catch percentages versus Gresham's...


I think what you mean to say is that the Bengals now use the TE for more than just being another o-lineman. And still I don't think they use him enough.

Exactly. While they didn't throw to Kelly a lot when they did do it he was golden. In fact, until he got hurt and we injury waived him Donald Lee was actually also more reliable as a passing target than Gresham. Remember a pass catching TE has to have great hands above all else - speed is not as important for a TE as catching the ball every time it is thrown to you.

Plus Kelly was a great blocker and Gresham is below average blocking. Not as bad as some "TEs" we have had but not great either. It all goes to the original point, which was that Andy is doing what he has done with basically one reliable option on offense.

[David From Cincy]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

Not sure what you're talking about. Criticism of Carson Palmer wasn't overwhelming until 2010. We missed the playoffs that year, and Palmer was playing worse than Dalton is now.

I understand that the team is losing and that Dalton has 11 picks in 8 games. But it's silly and lazy to assume the picks are the reason for our current losing ways. I'm fine with critiqueing Dalton. I've mentioned myself that I think he's pressing too much when we're behind. But there's way too many people on here calling for Dalton's head, saying they miss Carson, talking about Matt Barkley etc.

How about we try to get a good RB for once, hire a fresh new HC etc. before we go throwing away a pro bowl QB who is showing signs of progress in his 2nd season? Another thing that bothers me is that people want to focus only on the picks while ignoring his other numbers, which are fantastic.

The last year we went to the playoffs with Palmer in 2009 he was getting booed at the stadium. I was there, I remember that quite vividly because I got into several arguments ther because I don't boo my teams players. If you believe criticism didnt get bad until 2010 then I will respectfully disagree.

[Go Cards]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

Andy is actually better. The pass pro and run game are worse. We're constantly putting Dalton in 3rd and long situations where teams know we're going to pass.

Funny thing is, Dalton is on pace to put up numbers that are almost identical to Palmer's 2007 season.

Palmer- 373-575-4131-26-20 (86.7 rating)

Dalton- 364-570-4260-28-22 (86.7 rating)

In fact, the 2012 season is very similar to the 2007 season in other ways as well. Both had poor run games and defenses. Seems like that's been a theme since Rudi left.

Heck, just compare this seasons stat lines.

Palmer 201- 330- 2355, 11.7 yard average. 13 TD's,. 8 Int's, 85.6 rating. Seasoned vet
Dalton..182- 285- 2130, 11.7 yard average. 14 TD's. 11 Int's, 86.7 rating. Sophomore season.

Dalton is doing fine for what he has. No defense, no pass protection. and no running game.

The only change I see is that he does not throw the ball away as much as last season and tends to force more throws. Think this is born out of trailing in so many more games this season and him trying to get us back into the game.

[Go Cards]

Originally Posted by David From Cincy

I disagree. I remember Carson Palmer having a similar year that ended in a playoff berth and people were ready to have him shot.

I hate how people seem to think you are either behind a player (and this a fan) or a "hater". Why can people not voice the slightest concern or disappointment in a player without being lambasted or labeled in some fashion?

Better yet why do we treat this guy like the golden boy. Can we ever mention anything about him or is he going to be Palmer jr. Where all we do is make excuses for the guy until he says he wants to leave at which point we attack?

You make this statement but get in verbal arguments with fellow fans at live events with people just because you disagree with their spontaneous opinion ? Yea, that is not hypocritical at all.

I believe that this is a free country and all opinions should be allowed. Pro or con.