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  #1  
Old 11-09-2012, 06:11 AM
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Default Gresham and the Offense.

Many of us were hoping that Gresham would be the force this year that allowed the Bengals to get away with not signing a legitimate 2nd WR in the offseason.

Until the Denver game he has largely disappointed (me anyways).

I witnessed a Gresham I haven't seen before during the Denver game.

He was working the zones and separating using his size, something he hardly did prior.

He gave Andy a reason to trust throwing the ball to him.

I would still like to see him run the ball with more authority and fight for yards after catch but it was the first time I was impressed with Gresham aside from a few plays scattered about his career here.

If Gresham plays the rest of the year like he played against Denver, this could be a fun offense to watch the remainder of the season.

I was hoping he would perform like that ALL year long but lets hope Sunday was the day he finally decided to take the training wheels off.

Does anyone else see Gresham taking the next step here?

Green and Gresham could be a lethal combo.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:26 AM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

could be is the problem.

They SHOULD BE.

Thats what angers me.

For whatever reason this (probly multiple ones) this team doesnt know how to utilize a TE, nor defend against one.

Is Gresh just not as good as we thought,,,not used properly,,,or just tired of not being used properly so doesnt try as hard?

After what happened with chad, tj, carson, jj,,,i fear more will follow suit particularly when their contracts are up.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:17 AM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

We've been waiting a long time for Gresh to take the next step. Call me a pessimist, but I'm thinking the Denver game is just something that we'll just see every now and then with Gresh. I don't think it will ever be something we will consistently see.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:20 AM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

I think Gresham looks terrible on the field. Most of the time he looks completely lost and he has poor hands for a tight end. I have seen him make a few nice catches but overall for projection coming out of college he has defiantly under produced for this team. But on that note most do regress once they become a Bengal aways so that's not surprising.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:11 AM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

Gresham = the new Simpson (inconsistency wise)
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:33 AM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

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Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
We've been waiting a long time for Gresh to take the next step. Call me a pessimist, but I'm thinking the Denver game is just something that we'll just see every now and then with Gresh. I don't think it will ever be something we will consistently see.
He has all the ability, he seems to not always play with passion, or at least not with his head all the way in the game.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:37 AM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

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Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
We've been waiting a long time for Gresh to take the next step. Call me a pessimist, but I'm thinking the Denver game is just something that we'll just see every now and then with Gresh. I don't think it will ever be something we will consistently see.
not to take away what he did against Denver, but Gresham was a must have on the fantasy wire last week because that was a typical TE game by anyone that plays the Broncos this year which is basically their weakness
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:37 AM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

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He has all the ability, he seems to not always play with passion, or at least not with his head all the way in the game.
Athletically, he's a beast. But as you say, he lacks passion. Honestly I think he's a bit soft too.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:41 AM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

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Athletically, he's a beast. But as you say, he lacks passion. Honestly I think he's a bit soft too.
This is true.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:55 AM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

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Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
Athletically, he's a beast. But as you say, he lacks passion. Honestly I think he's a bit soft too.
Most of this team lacks passion unfortunately.
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:05 AM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

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Originally Posted by gardner30 View Post
Many of us were hoping that Gresham would be the force this year that allowed the Bengals to get away with not signing a legitimate 2nd WR in the offseason.

Until the Denver game he has largely disappointed (me anyways).

I witnessed a Gresham I haven't seen before during the Denver game.

He was working the zones and separating using his size, something he hardly did prior.

He gave Andy a reason to trust throwing the ball to him.

I would still like to see him run the ball with more authority and fight for yards after catch but it was the first time I was impressed with Gresham aside from a few plays scattered about his career here.

If Gresham plays the rest of the year like he played against Denver, this could be a fun offense to watch the remainder of the season.

I was hoping he would perform like that ALL year long but lets hope Sunday was the day he finally decided to take the training wheels off.

Does anyone else see Gresham taking the next step here?

Green and Gresham could be a lethal combo.
Agree with everything you said here, but there is a stipulation: They need Mohammed Sanu and Marvin Jones to rotate opposite AJ Green and have three legitimate receiving options, plus a fourth if they send Gresham out in a pattern. (AJ, Hawk, Marvin/Sanu)

One thing Gruden does well with AJ is not just having him run certain routes. He is used in slot, deep, crossing, and screens. One of the big problems with Tate/Binns is vitually every pass is a 6 yard out. Well, opposing CBs study their opponents and these are almost certainties, not tendancies. I would like to see both Marvin and Mo take a lot of double moves and stretch defenses. People think Sanu isn't fast, but that is only because he ran a 4.59 40 yard dash at the combine, but he is more of a long-strider. Might not get up to speed as fast as some, but he has some wheels at his top end. Have Mo and Marvin wear out DBs with deep routes, and the occasional screen, cross, or reverse. IMHO, Gresham will make a difference, but to be truly "lethal", Mo and Marvin have to become legitimate receiving options to create synergy against opposing defenses. The way AJ, Simpson, and Baby Hawk started to gel late last season could repeat itself but with even greater results.

I don't place Binns' and Tate's lack of production solely on them. I think the predictable nature of their routes really hamstrung their performance.
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:09 AM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

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Originally Posted by pdub2005 View Post
He has all the ability, he seems to not always play with passion, or at least not with his head all the way in the game.
This pretty much sums it up. Seems to run with a deliberate, plodding trot. Doesn't get up on his toes. Hard to bring down due to his size, but not much of a speed threat. Orson Charles looks more "sudden". I would like to see more of Charles in 2 WR, 2 TE sets where Gresham stays in to block and Charles goes out in the pattern.
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by SHRacerX View Post
This pretty much sums it up. Seems to run with a deliberate, plodding trot. Doesn't get up on his toes. Hard to bring down due to his size, but not much of a speed threat. Orson Charles looks more "sudden". I would like to see more of Charles in 2 WR, 2 TE sets where Gresham stays in to block and Charles goes out in the pattern.
That right there is the root of all the problems with Gresham. He's not a good blocker. Let me repeat that.. He. Is. Not. A. Good. Blocker.

Yet for some reason, the Bengals coaches keep trying to play him like he's Dan Coats or Reggie Kelly. The guy shouldn't be in to block most of the time. That's like keeping Hernandez or Graham in to block. They're not particularly great at it, and it's just a waste of receiving talent. Take a look at these stats for Gresham:

Bengals Win:
2 plays of 20+ yds

Bengals Loss:
3 plays of 20+ yds, 2 plays of 40+ yds

The only time they take shots down the field to Gresham and/or try to get him the ball frequently is later in the game when they're losing. They keep him in to block or just don't get him the ball at all for most of the game, letting him get the crap beaten out of him in blocking for 30-50 minutes of the game, and then suddenly throw the ball at him 5 times on one drive while they're trying to come from behind.

You have to keep a player involved in the game to keep his head involved in the game. The Bengals coaches simply don't know how to keep a TE involved in the gameplan for the entire game, just like they don't know how to defend a TE (I think it's 5 TDs allowed by TEs this year?).. I really think they just are horrible misusing and under-utilizing Gresham.

Does he have some stupid drops? Yes. That doesn't change the fact he's the team's 2nd best receiving threat and has size/speed/talent that should keep him involved in the passing game, not in the blocking game. I also think that even though he looks slow on the field, he's a lot faster than he seems. 6'5" takes some slow long strides, so while he's not looking fast, he covers a lot of ground.. dude's 260lbs. He moves for a man that size.
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gardner30 View Post
Many of us were hoping that Gresham would be the force this year that allowed the Bengals to get away with not signing a legitimate 2nd WR in the offseason.

Until the Denver game he has largely disappointed (me anyways).

I witnessed a Gresham I haven't seen before during the Denver game.

He was working the zones and separating using his size, something he hardly did prior.

He gave Andy a reason to trust throwing the ball to him.

I would still like to see him run the ball with more authority and fight for yards after catch but it was the first time I was impressed with Gresham aside from a few plays scattered about his career here.

If Gresham plays the rest of the year like he played against Denver, this could be a fun offense to watch the remainder of the season.

I was hoping he would perform like that ALL year long but lets hope Sunday was the day he finally decided to take the training wheels off.

Does anyone else see Gresham taking the next step here?

Green and Gresham could be a lethal combo.
That's just it...Gresham's issue seems to be effort and focus this year. He has the talent to be a Top 5 TE.

I've witnessed him just going through the motions on blocks many times. He's also been pretty bad at pass blocking.

The Denver game was a step in the right direction...but didn't he still have a drop?
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

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Originally Posted by Whodey23 View Post
Gresham = the new Simpson (inconsistency wise)
Unfortunately, I think this sums it up. He can look great at times and terrible others.

I think the problem is a combination of us not using him properly and his being inconsistent. As much as I like Gresh, I'd like to see more of Charles to see if it is the offense(OC) or the player.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:12 AM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

Gresham is 7th in the league in receiving yards among TEs (less than 150 yards behind the leader).

Among the top 10 TEs in total receptions he is 3rd in average yards per catch (only 0.8 behind the leader)

He has had too many drops, but he is not as bad as most people here are claiming.

Last edited by fredtoast; 11-09-2012 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:13 AM
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After what happened with chad, tj, carson, jj,,,i fear more will follow suit particularly when their contracts are up.
What happened with chad and TJ?

They weren't worth bringing back.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:15 AM
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bengals Re: Gresham and the Offense.

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What happened with chad and TJ?

They weren't worth bringing back.
Apparently not being resigned and being jobless (TO) as well as being traded to the Patriots while still under contract and then soon being jobless a year later (Chad) is the same as what JJo and Carson did.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap View Post
That right there is the root of all the problems with Gresham. He's not a good blocker. Let me repeat that.. He. Is. Not. A. Good. Blocker.

Yet for some reason, the Bengals coaches keep trying to play him like he's Dan Coats or Reggie Kelly. The guy shouldn't be in to block most of the time. That's like keeping Hernandez or Graham in to block. They're not particularly great at it, and it's just a waste of receiving talent. Take a look at these stats for Gresham:

Bengals Win:
2 plays of 20+ yds

Bengals Loss:
3 plays of 20+ yds, 2 plays of 40+ yds

The only time they take shots down the field to Gresham and/or try to get him the ball frequently is later in the game when they're losing. They keep him in to block or just don't get him the ball at all for most of the game, letting him get the crap beaten out of him in blocking for 30-50 minutes of the game, and then suddenly throw the ball at him 5 times on one drive while they're trying to come from behind.

You have to keep a player involved in the game to keep his head involved in the game. The Bengals coaches simply don't know how to keep a TE involved in the gameplan for the entire game, just like they don't know how to defend a TE (I think it's 5 TDs allowed by TEs this year?).. I really think they just are horrible misusing and under-utilizing Gresham.

Does he have some stupid drops? Yes. That doesn't change the fact he's the team's 2nd best receiving threat and has size/speed/talent that should keep him involved in the passing game, not in the blocking game. I also think that even though he looks slow on the field, he's a lot faster than he seems. 6'5" takes some slow long strides, so while he's not looking fast, he covers a lot of ground.. dude's 260lbs. He moves for a man that size.
Nailed it!
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:18 AM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

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Originally Posted by fredtoast View Post
Gresham is 7th in the league in receiving yards among TEs (less than 150 yards behind the leader).

Among the top 10 TEs in total receptions he is 3rd in average yards per catch (only 0.8 behind the leader)

He has had too many drops, but he is not as bad as most people here are claiming.
Just imagine if he didn't have as many drops and if they actually stretched him down the field more often.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:25 AM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

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Just imagine if he didn't have as many drops and if they actually stretched him down the field more often.
When you say he has drops (and he has) he has also alligator armed a few and rounded some routes...he hasn't EARNED a bigger role and going down field more.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:33 AM
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When you say he has drops (and he has) he has also alligator armed a few and rounded some routes...he hasn't EARNED a bigger role and going down field more.
This is true and it's a conundrum. He has the abililities, at least I think he does, and it would be great if he were consistent enough to be used properly. If he can't do it, maybe we should see what Charles can do.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:50 AM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap View Post
That right there is the root of all the problems with Gresham. He's not a good blocker. Let me repeat that.. He. Is. Not. A. Good. Blocker.

Yet for some reason, the Bengals coaches keep trying to play him like he's Dan Coats or Reggie Kelly. The guy shouldn't be in to block most of the time. That's like keeping Hernandez or Graham in to block. They're not particularly great at it, and it's just a waste of receiving talent. Take a look at these stats for Gresham:

Bengals Win:
2 plays of 20+ yds

Bengals Loss:
3 plays of 20+ yds, 2 plays of 40+ yds

The only time they take shots down the field to Gresham and/or try to get him the ball frequently is later in the game when they're losing. They keep him in to block or just don't get him the ball at all for most of the game, letting him get the crap beaten out of him in blocking for 30-50 minutes of the game, and then suddenly throw the ball at him 5 times on one drive while they're trying to come from behind.

You have to keep a player involved in the game to keep his head involved in the game. The Bengals coaches simply don't know how to keep a TE involved in the gameplan for the entire game, just like they don't know how to defend a TE (I think it's 5 TDs allowed by TEs this year?).. I really think they just are horrible misusing and under-utilizing Gresham.

Does he have some stupid drops? Yes. That doesn't change the fact he's the team's 2nd best receiving threat and has size/speed/talent that should keep him involved in the passing game, not in the blocking game. I also think that even though he looks slow on the field, he's a lot faster than he seems. 6'5" takes some slow long strides, so while he's not looking fast, he covers a lot of ground.. dude's 260lbs. He moves for a man that size.
He's a good pass blocker, terrible run blocker.

Until the Denver game, he wasn't himself either pass blocking, but righted the ship last week.
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:43 PM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

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Originally Posted by Whodey23 View Post
Gresham = the new Simpson (inconsistency wise)
Agreed. With his big week against Denver I would just as much expect him to lay an egg against the Giants. I could see something to the tune of 2-3 catches for just under 30 yards.
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:59 PM
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Default Re: Gresham and the Offense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap View Post
That right there is the root of all the problems with Gresham. He's not a good blocker. Let me repeat that.. He. Is. Not. A. Good. Blocker.

Yet for some reason, the Bengals coaches keep trying to play him like he's Dan Coats or Reggie Kelly. The guy shouldn't be in to block most of the time. That's like keeping Hernandez or Graham in to block. They're not particularly great at it, and it's just a waste of receiving talent. Take a look at these stats for Gresham:

Bengals Win:
2 plays of 20+ yds

Bengals Loss:
3 plays of 20+ yds, 2 plays of 40+ yds

The only time they take shots down the field to Gresham and/or try to get him the ball frequently is later in the game when they're losing. They keep him in to block or just don't get him the ball at all for most of the game, letting him get the crap beaten out of him in blocking for 30-50 minutes of the game, and then suddenly throw the ball at him 5 times on one drive while they're trying to come from behind.

You have to keep a player involved in the game to keep his head involved in the game. The Bengals coaches simply don't know how to keep a TE involved in the gameplan for the entire game, just like they don't know how to defend a TE (I think it's 5 TDs allowed by TEs this year?).. I really think they just are horrible misusing and under-utilizing Gresham.

Does he have some stupid drops? Yes. That doesn't change the fact he's the team's 2nd best receiving threat and has size/speed/talent that should keep him involved in the passing game, not in the blocking game. I also think that even though he looks slow on the field, he's a lot faster than he seems. 6'5" takes some slow long strides, so while he's not looking fast, he covers a lot of ground.. dude's 260lbs. He moves for a man that size.

I think you make some good points here.

I think, especially with the #2 receiver issue unresolved, we need to use him more as a receiver. The guy does get open, he has drops when he loses concentration, but he's got decent hands.

He has a lot of receptions and a lot of talent. He needs as many reps as we can get him and we need to minimize his weaknesses right now (blocking and inconsistency).

I like your idea of keeping him on the field to keep his head in the game. In fact I think we should run our offense more like that. I'd like to see us run a no huddle offense for extended portions of the game, developing chemistry and giving the chance for the players to get into a rythm - while keeping the defense guessing and wearing them down.

I'd like to see two varieties of this: a two back set with Leonard and BJGE. You don't know who's running, blocking or receiving. Complement that with Sanu, Green and Gresham and vary the depth of their routes. Or do a single back set and either go with 2 tight ends or another wide receiver. With Jones down right now I'd favor the 2 tight ends. There are any number of ways to utilize the 2nd TE while you march down the field.

Play them an entire series that way. And no friggin time outs when you get in the red zone. Ride the momentum all the way into the end zone. All those guys have the potential to score, and both BJGE and Leonard can block or pick up the blitz.

The Bengals seem too disjointed to me, and seem to stop their own momentum instead of riding it.

Last edited by 3wt; 11-09-2012 at 02:02 PM.
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