Average is not good enough.....

[BengalRugby]

Black Jesus isn't even average.


So even if average was good enough, he still isn't getting it done.

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by mulligan

I was addressing a post about Marvin.

9 HCs of the Bengals have not established a winning culture.

I get confused how some feel so assured that the 10th will be able to do it.

Tell me who the coach will be, and I will give my opinion if it will be an upgrade.

Ah so basically your saying F##k it,,just stick with a known loser and not even attempt to try cause it hasnt worked out in the past,,,ok.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Dabo614

Ah so basically your saying F##k it,,just stick with a known loser and not even attempt to try cause it hasnt worked out in the past,,,ok.

Marvin has been quite good in wearing both a HC and a GM hat (as pertains to drafting and assembling a team).

Especially, since MB has seemingly given over more responsibility to ML.

WTS, again, tell me the candidate for the Bengals HC, and I will tell you if I would support the move.

Without a GM, I doubt that any quality HC would come to the Bengals.

So, I guess I am saying that I would rather stick with the 3rd winningest (by %) HC of the Bengals than attempting to bring in another coach that statistically will not be as successful (as indicated by the other remaining Bengal HCs).

Sam Wyche wasn't even .500 on the Bengals.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by BigPapaKain

Okay, let me run off some names:

Bill Cowher.
Jon Gruden.
Jay Gruden.
Mike Zimmer.
Romeo Crennel.
Jim Tressel.
Rob Ryan.
Phil Shurmur (it's year 2 - time for a new coach in Cleveland)
Brian Billick.

Mind you, I tried to stick with conceivable coaches. Except for Tressel - that's just a curve ball for funsies.

Cowher, Jon Gruden, & Billick would never entertain being a Bengals HC.

Obviously, the assistant Bengals coaches could conceivably become the HC. WTS, in my opinion, I don't see a track record with Mike Zimmer (declined for several HC jobs) and Jay Gruden (2nd year OC and "ball boy" for brother in T as necessarily being improvements over Lewis.

Shurmur hasn't been successful in Cleveland. Romeo failed in Cleveland.

Rob Ryan is interesting. But wts, Rob has demonstrated a similar approach to his brother. I wouldn't want that in Cincinnati. My view. But, he could be a possible target.

[r3stangs]

Originally Posted by mulligan

Marvin has been quite good in wearing both a HC and a GM hat (as pertains to drafting and assembling a team).

Especially, since MB has seemingly given over more responsibility to ML.

WTS, again, tell me the candidate for the Bengals HC, and I will tell you if I would support the move.

Without a GM, I doubt that any quality HC would come to the Bengals.

So, I guess I am saying that I would rather stick with the 3rd winningest (by %) HC of the Bengals than attempting to bring in another coach that statistically will not be as successful (as indicated by the other remaining Bengal HCs).

Sam Wyche wasn't even .500 on the Bengals.

Earlier you were up in the air because you wanted to know who it would be before deciding. That I can understand and respect.

Now you're willing to stick with a losing HC because he will statistically not be as successful based on past HC percentages? Make up your mind. And past percentages are not an indication here. There are way to many variables in play between the past and present to say that those statistics are valid proof of future HC performance. Your first statement made sense. This one doesn't.

[Toast Jones]

Originally Posted by mulligan

Marvin has been quite good in wearing both a HC and a GM hat (as pertains to drafting and assembling a team).
.

Define "quite good".

[McC]

Originally Posted by mulligan

I was addressing a post about Marvin.

9 HCs of the Bengals have not established a winning culture.

I get confused how some feel so assured that the 10th will be able to do it.

Tell me who the coach will be, and I will give my opinion if it will be an upgrade.

I'm not a believer in change for change's sake. But I am a firm believer in "there comes a time..." Just cuz you failed in the past doesn't mean you stop looking. Maybe you stumble onto the right one. I believe a more competent guy(calm, fiery, whatever, just give us competent) with the say so Marvin has had could have put us into a SB way before now.

If MB gives a competent guy half the time and half the say so Marvin has, we'd be in the playoffs year after year.

The lack of much of a scouting dep't hinders you, but really only in maybe finding diamonds in the rough guys. You can overcome that because there's so much tape out there on everybody and everybody knows who everybody is.

Hell, I believe a better coach could take what is here right now and make it a much better team than it is. If you fail 30 times, go for 31. It's much better than not even trying.

[Bengal4ever68]

Average is obviously good enough for Mike Brown, since he's kept Lewis around for this long...HIRE GRUDEN, DON'T WASTE ANOTHER YEAR WITH LEWIS.

[fredtoast]

Marvin is a much better coach than many people here give him credit for, but it is still time to move on to someone else.

The job as Bengals head coach is not nearly as hard to sell as it was when Marvin took over. We have a nice core of young players, some cap space that has to be spent next year, and three picks in the first two rounds.

[spurs of football]

We have to try and get to average first.

[umkubas]

The win/loss record of a National Football League franchise define the franchise.

Coach Lewis - 72-79-1 and three playoff losses

Quarterback Andy Dalton - 12-12 and a playoff loss

I would offer that past is prologue. The franchise of the Cincinnati Bengals has been notorious for being average, below average, and terrible (2010 - 4-12, 2008 - 4-11-1, 2002 - 2-14, 1999-2000 - 4-12, 1998 - 3-13, 1994-1993 - 3-13, 1991 - 3-13, 1979 -1978 - 3-13, 1971 - 4-10, 1969 - 4-10-1, 1968 3-11)

15 out of the 44 years the franchise has existed, it has had 4 or less wins.

I would submit that in the next 44 years of the Cincinnati Bengals, 15 years will be with 4 wins or less.

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by mulligan

Cowher, Jon Gruden, & Billick would never entertain being a Bengals HC.

Obviously, the assistant Bengals coaches could conceivably become the HC. WTS, in my opinion, I don't see a track record with Mike Zimmer (declined for several HC jobs) and Jay Gruden (2nd year OC and "ball boy" for brother in T as necessarily being improvements over Lewis.

Shurmur hasn't been successful in Cleveland. Romeo failed in Cleveland.

Rob Ryan is interesting. But wts, Rob has demonstrated a similar approach to his brother. I wouldn't want that in Cincinnati. My view. But, he could be a possible target.

I wouldn't exactly call Rob Ryan extremely successful as a coordinator either. If his last name wasn't Ryan, we likely wouldn't be talking about him now.

What it boils down to is we would likely hire an assistant coach from here or some other club.

Frankly, people blame Marvin for playcalling and the X's and O's here...but that's on the coordinators. What makes fans think Zimmer or Gruden would be any better of a HC?

Plus, whoever is the Bengals coach better be good at scouting and drafting. That's a culture shock to any new coach...so prepare for 2-3 bad drafts while that coach gets up to speed with that side of the job.

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

Marvin is a much better coach than many people here give him credit for, but it is still time to move on to someone else.

The job as Bengals head coach is not nearly as hard to sell as it was when Marvin took over. We have a nice core of young players, some cap space that has to be spent next year, and three picks in the first two rounds.

And that's the most valid point I've read in this discussion.

The Pistons at one point had a young coach named Rick Carlisle. He took a team that lacked talent and got them to overachieve. Then, as they added talent they improved, but only to a certain point.

The Pistons fired him in the offseason after he was named Coach of the Year. Fans were surprised. There were rumblings that behind the scenes he was aloof and not a people person.

Then, they brought in Larry Brown...and won the championship that next season.

Good is the enemy of great sometimes.

But, there is also a chance that the next coach we bring in is worse too.

[bengalfan74]

Originally Posted by Toast Jones

We're not even average. Not now and not throughout Marvin's tenure. (See sub .500 records in both categories.).

We have had 5 top 10 pics in 10 years. I'd venture to guuess that over half the league has won a playoff game in that span. We're below average in most categories.

Exactly Toast ! We're way under average.

To the OP, for sure we've already seen Marvins best. I'm not quite sure we've seen Andy's, under a real HC !