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  #51  
Old 11-12-2012, 03:34 AM
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Default Re: So who still thinks we need a new QB?

4k+ yards and 30+ TDs

Would make him better than Brady, Brees, Flacco, Rivers, RBurger, Eli, Vick(still wonder how he got elite status), McNabb, Culpepper, McNair, Favre, and an ol Bengal named Boomer just to name some of the elites and big time quarter backs of recent time with success.


Peyton and Kurt Warner had insane stats coming in and Andy putting numbers like them would make him one of the best as long as he puts those numbers up this year and throughout the rest of his career with some playoff success.
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  #52  
Old 11-12-2012, 03:47 AM
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Default Re: So who still thinks we need a new QB?

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20 ints is still too many though, but he's young so it's not as big a deal as it would be if he were in say his 8th year.
He definitely needs to cut down the ints. Sometimes he's not making smart decisions when the team is behind. Like you said though, he's still young. Plus I'm starting to doubt he will finish with 20. The ints seem to be tapering off a bit. He had 1 against the Broncos and none yesterday.
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  #53  
Old 11-12-2012, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: So who still thinks we need a new QB?

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People can't say he didn't carry the team today. The run game wasn't awful, but it wasn't what won the game.



Aren't those Kitna's numbers at Detroit when he went 3-13? Just sayin'. Let's save "elite" for when he wins some postseason games.
Defense carried the team today. Dalton and company made the turnovers the defense caused stick and turned them into points, but to overlook the defense after a performance like that isn't fair to Zimmers group at all.

As for the point about Kitna, I'll do ya one better and call out Mr. 5000 yard Matt Stafford.....With one legit target, no run game and an iffy defense at best, I'd say Stafford could be fairly considered "elite"....But W's talk and all context walks in the world of evaluating QBs. Even though it's rtarded, the mob mentality on that front is insurmountable.
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  #54  
Old 11-12-2012, 04:06 AM
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Default Re: So who still thinks we need a new QB?

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He definitely needs to cut down the ints. Sometimes he's not making smart decisions when the team is behind. Like you said though, he's still young. Plus I'm starting to doubt he will finish with 20. The ints seem to be tapering off a bit. He had 1 against the Broncos and none yesterday.
On short fields with a lead, it's easier to not throw picks. I'm not hating, I think Dalton is a fine QB. My point is, even if he throws 20 or more picks, inevitably, a good deal of them will be the result of circumstances beyond his control but only the ones where he clearly screwed up will be remembered by the "It's always the QB's fault" crowd. And they will crow incessantly about how he is not good enough because that is the extent of their insight into a game they don't really understand.

I hate to sound like a jerk about it, but it's true. Most fans are like the dorks in those cell phone commercials that get magically transformed into knowledgeable experts via watching games on their phones.....They really have no clue, but they think it's cool to appear that they do.
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  #55  
Old 11-12-2012, 05:18 AM
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Default Re: So who still thinks we need a new QB?

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Defense carried the team today. Dalton and company made the turnovers the defense caused stick and turned them into points, but to overlook the defense after a performance like that isn't fair to Zimmers group at all.

As for the point about Kitna, I'll do ya one better and call out Mr. 5000 yard Matt Stafford.....With one legit target, no run game and an iffy defense at best, I'd say Stafford could be fairly considered "elite"....But W's talk and all context walks in the world of evaluating QBs. Even though it's rtarded, the mob mentality on that front is insurmountable.
Both of your posts are pretty dead on. I've watched plenty of Lions games and I would consider Stafford an elite top 10 type QB. Last year I said Stafford was better than Eli and people laughed at me, but what would Eli be on the Lions? Sure, Calvin is the best WR in the league, but that team is a mess.

As for Andy, watching him this year has made me rethink my stance on Carson a little bit. I still don't think he's an elite QB, but he's better than the level he was playing on from 2008-10. People want to act as if the running game doesn't affect the passing. It's silly. Andy has been playing nickel defenses on a regular basis with safeties playing deep because they have no fear of Green-Ellis and his 3.4 per carry average. Then people wonder why Andy isn't throwing deep much this year.
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  #56  
Old 11-12-2012, 11:20 AM
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Default Re: So who still thinks we need a new QB?

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Defense carried the team today. Dalton and company made the turnovers the defense caused stick and turned them into points, but to overlook the defense after a performance like that isn't fair to Zimmers group at all...
Agree completely. I actually think the D has generally been playing well the last few weeks, but it hasn't really shown up in the stats because the offense has so frequently been absent or turning the ball over and our D has been tired late in games. If our offense had generated yards more consistently this season and turned the ball over less I think our D would be ranked 10 spots higher easily.
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  #57  
Old 11-12-2012, 11:21 AM
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bengals Re: So who still thinks we need a new QB?

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So explain his overthrows on some deep routes.
I never seen him over throw a deep ball today, I call a deep ball of 35 yards or more.
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  #58  
Old 11-12-2012, 11:41 AM
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Default Re: So who still thinks we need a new QB?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I might get chided for this, but I didn't really like the TD pass to Green. Of course I like any play resulting in 6 points, but had anyone been within 5 yards of him they would have had time to recover and at least make the tackle if not intercept or knock the pass down. It worked out and as it turned out that one play may not have made much difference, but Dalton seems to continue struggling with anything deep.

I have never called for another QB mind you, and I like most of what I see from him. But unless I see a better deep passer (accuracy, timing, etc) this offense won't reach its full potential. He has youth on his side still. Plays like the aforementioned aren't ones you can afford to miss in a tight game.
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  #59  
Old 11-12-2012, 11:43 AM
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Default Re: So who still thinks we need a new QB?

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Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
He definitely needs to cut down the ints. Sometimes he's not making smart decisions when the team is behind. Like you said though, he's still young. Plus I'm starting to doubt he will finish with 20. The ints seem to be tapering off a bit. He had 1 against the Broncos and none yesterday.
Had he thrown an int in the 1st half...that's a different game.

Turnovers make the final outcome lop-sided as we saw against the Ravens.
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  #60  
Old 11-12-2012, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: So who still thinks we need a new QB?

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Dalton 21 of 30 with 4 tds and no picks today. He actually got some protection today and you can see what he did with it. Still no run game, but Andy is getting it done.

Now on pace for 4140 yards, 32 tds and 20 picks. Completing 64.4%. Those are elite numbers fellas.
20 ints is not an elite number.

I like Andy and I think he will continue to improve. Here's the only problem with what you said:

Almost EVERY NFL QB will carve up a defense when he has protection. I would expect a good game when he has protection.
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  #61  
Old 11-12-2012, 11:50 AM
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bengals Re: So who still thinks we need a new QB?

In no way am I trying to bad mouth Andy, I'm just saying I would like him to have a little more arm strength, say Palmer's arm before injury.
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  #62  
Old 11-12-2012, 11:55 AM
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Default Re: So who still thinks we need a new QB?

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As to Andy, the big thing was Sanu more than anything else. FINALLY he had a receiver not named AJ Green that he could actually trust to bring in the ball. The effect on Andy was very positive.

Agree.^^^^^ Thought Sanu was a difference maker on offense today.
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  #63  
Old 11-12-2012, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: So who still thinks we need a new QB?

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20 ints is not an elite number.

I like Andy and I think he will continue to improve. Here's the only problem with what you said:

Almost EVERY NFL QB will carve up a defense when he has protection. I would expect a good game when he has protection.
This was the best the o-line has played all year, but it wasn't Andy's best game. Andy also carved up the Browns, Redskins and Jags while getting very little protection. So it's not as if this was the first time Andy has had a great game.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:07 PM
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Default Re: So who still thinks we need a new QB?

I do not think we need a new QB, but i definitely think we need a new running back, and possibly a better right tackle than andre smith. With our division you need a Ray Rice or a Rashard Mendenhal to compete and BJGE is not it. I think Andy would be millions of times better with a running game and better protection on the far right side. Andy is definently our guy. Also who here supports me when i say run marvin lewis out of town??
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  #65  
Old 11-12-2012, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: So who still thinks we need a new QB?

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This was the best the o-line has played all year, but it wasn't Andy's best game. Andy also carved up the Browns, Redskins and Jags while getting very little protection. So it's not as if this was the first time Andy has had a great game.
Carson Palmer is not only a bum but a hex on whatever team he plays with as are most USC quarterbacks (Sanchez, Lienhart). He is not even close to elite example; Tom Brady suffered the same injury 2 years ago and since then has returned to the playoffs every year after. I bet the Raiders finish way worse then we do. At least mike brown got rid of him when he had the chance instead of keeping like that cancerous tumor chad johnson. I will be impressed if Palmer still has a NFL job after the 2013 season, quote me on that.
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  #66  
Old 11-13-2012, 01:18 AM
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Default Re: So who still thinks we need a new QB?

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Both of your posts are pretty dead on. I've watched plenty of Lions games and I would consider Stafford an elite top 10 type QB. Last year I said Stafford was better than Eli and people laughed at me, but what would Eli be on the Lions? Sure, Calvin is the best WR in the league, but that team is a mess.

As for Andy, watching him this year has made me rethink my stance on Carson a little bit. I still don't think he's an elite QB, but he's better than the level he was playing on from 2008-10. People want to act as if the running game doesn't affect the passing. It's silly. Andy has been playing nickel defenses on a regular basis with safeties playing deep because they have no fear of Green-Ellis and his 3.4 per carry average. Then people wonder why Andy isn't throwing deep much this year.
I don't think Palmer ever had a less effective running game than what Dalton is working with this year. Not in Cincy anyway, maybe now that he's in Oakland and they stupidly hired a jacka** OC who is of the Bratkoski "square pegs into circles" mold and installed a zone blocking scheme that McFadden has never performed well in. Smh, if you know McFadden is a beast in the power scheme and bad in a zone scheme, why would you do that, why would you completely mitigate your best player??

Lulz, it's all bad in Oakland, we should spank them based on nothing but how bad their defense is, it's just epically awful. Plus we should pick Carson at least twice cuz they've got nothing.....they're gonna fall behind cuz they can't stop nobody and they can't run clock to protect their sorry defense cuz they can't run it. He'll have to chuck it all over the yard, we'll know it's coming and it's gonna be pick city.
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  #67  
Old 11-13-2012, 01:20 AM
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Default Re: So who still thinks we need a new QB?

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USC quarterbacks (Sanchez, Lienhart)
you forgot Matt Cassel
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:25 AM
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Carson Palmer is not only a bum but a hex on whatever team he plays with as are most USC quarterbacks (Sanchez, Lienhart). He is not even close to elite example; Tom Brady suffered the same injury 2 years ago and since then has returned to the playoffs every year after. I bet the Raiders finish way worse then we do. At least mike brown got rid of him when he had the chance instead of keeping like that cancerous tumor chad johnson. I will be impressed if Palmer still has a NFL job after the 2013 season, quote me on that.
You realize that Palmer has clearly been the Raiders best player this year right? It's not even close.....He is getting old but unless he suffers a major injury or retires, he'd easily at least be a back up if not still starting in 2014 and beyond if he wants. Get a clue.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:28 AM
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you forgot Matt Cassel
Oh yea, the dude who went 11-5 with like a 98 rating the year Brady was out but he's stunk ever since, except for the year that Weiss was his OC in KC.....Yep, all on the QB, system and coaching staff have squat to do with QB performance.

(More of a general comment than for you in particular Mike)
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:30 AM
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I don't think Palmer ever had a less effective running game than what Dalton is working with this year. Not in Cincy anyway, maybe now that he's in Oakland and they stupidly hired a jacka** OC who is of the Bratkoski "square pegs into circles" mold and installed a zone blocking scheme that McFadden has never performed well in. Smh, if you know McFadden is a beast in the power scheme and bad in a zone scheme, why would you do that, why would you completely mitigate your best player??

Lulz, it's all bad in Oakland, we should spank them based on nothing but how bad their defense is, it's just epically awful. Plus we should pick Carson at least twice cuz they've got nothing.....they're gonna fall behind cuz they can't stop nobody and they can't run clock to protect their sorry defense cuz they can't run it. He'll have to chuck it all over the yard, we'll know it's coming and it's gonna be pick city.
Makes you realize that maybe Hue Jackson is a decent HC. Oakland went from playoff contenders to awful in one season with essentially the same players. Agree their new OC is terrible.

As for our run game, I think it's the worst I've seen since the Derrick Fenner/Harold Green (I know he made a pro bowl, but he ****** after that) days. Heck, it may be worse than that.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:42 AM
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Makes you realize that maybe Hue Jackson is a decent HC. Oakland went from playoff contenders to awful in one season with essentially the same players. Agree their new OC is terrible.

As for our run game, I think it's the worst I've seen since the Derrick Fenner/Harold Green (I know he made a pro bowl, but he ****** after that) days. Heck, it may be worse than that.
It's all bad man. I realize what they were trying to do is install a platoon of Ellis and Scott but Scott has been injury prone his entire time here, so it was a dumb idea to begin with. And I like Scott but pencil him in as a guy you can count on to make it entire season with an increased work load when he hadn't been able to stay healthy when not playing much was so rtarded. I want RB in the first round if the value matches.

And yea, Hue was a decent coach there. I know McFadden misses him terribly. Maybe we'll get lucky and Oakland will trade DMac in the off season for next to nothing since he's having such a bad year and got hurt again.
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Last edited by savagehenry54; 11-13-2012 at 01:44 AM.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:48 AM
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It's all bad man. I realize what they were trying to do is install a platoon of Ellis and Scott but Scott has been injury prone his entire time here, so it was a dumb idea to begin with. And I like Scott but pencil him in as a guy you can count on to make it entire season with an increased work load when he hadn't been able to stay healthy when not playing much was so rtarded. I want RB in the first round if the value matches.
Word is that Lattimore was the only back with a 1st round grade and he shredded his knee. We have a pair of 2nd rounders and if we don't take a back with one of them, I will probably throw my TV out the window. I wanted Lamar Miller this year, but apparently we needed a 5th DT more. Smh.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:57 AM
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Word is that Lattimore was the only back with a 1st round grade and he shredded his knee. We have a pair of 2nd rounders and if we don't take a back with one of them, I will probably throw my TV out the window. I wanted Lamar Miller this year, but apparently we needed a 5th DT more. Smh.
Wasn't there a "Doug Martin in the first round" faction around these parts prior to the draft......They should feel pretty smart by now.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:18 AM
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Wasn't there a "Doug Martin in the first round" faction around these parts prior to the draft......They should feel pretty smart by now.
Pretty sure there was. I was more on board with taking a back in rounds 2-4 (wanted DeCastro and Hightower in round 1), but I wouldn't have complained had we taken Martin. Sure wish we would've now.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:53 AM
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Pretty sure there was. I was more on board with taking a back in rounds 2-4 (wanted DeCastro and Hightower in round 1), but I wouldn't have complained had we taken Martin. Sure wish we would've now.
That's why we need to locate and draft "our guy". I'm not saying we should do anything stupid, but it does sort of bother me that the Bengals picks seem to be so generic, so safe. Which in Bengaldom is sort of like a breath of fresh air. But often you'll find that when Mel Kiper loses his shyte cuz a team didn't draft the way his board said they should, it turns out the team knew just a bit more than ol' Kiper, as they should.

When we drafted Levi Jones for example, a good draft pick doesn't always match what the consensus among the "draft gurus" is. Good teams should know immensely more about which players they want that fit their system or are just good all around players than all the Tood McShay's of the world combined.
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