When Marvin wins, I see Marvin gets .....

[Robbie Sharp]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

I guess it was accurate last year when the TEAM was 7-2 and the best of the AFC, members here were not talking about the coach of 9 years but of the ROOKIE QB!!!

I did not see threads of Coach of the Year, but Rookie of the Year.

Oh how quickly we forget.

You sound like you think he actually deserved "Coach of the Year" the year he got it!

[Helldog]

Come on BY, any other coach that's with a team for 10 years with 0 playoff wins sees the door a lot sooner than his 10th year.

When would you like to put blame on him? After 15 years? 20? Never?

[victor24]

Props to this thread and responses by OP!

[McC]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

I guess it was accurate last year when the TEAM was 7-2 and the best of the AFC, members here were not talking about the coach of 9 years but of the ROOKIE QB!!!

I did not see threads of Coach of the Year, but Rookie of the Year.

Oh how quickly we forget.

73-79-1 W-L, 0-3 W-L in playoffs. Where I come from, that's below .500. So, to call Marvin Mr. .500 isn't really accurate, is it?

You mention being 7-2. You neglect to mention finishing the regular season 2-5, which is kind of a pattern with his teams, no matter who the QB is. Also forgot the customary one and done in the playoffs, also his pattern.

To give Marvin his due, he did drag us all the way up from horrible to mediocre, which has undeniably been his level. Some of us don't see that as enough. Can't imagine you do either.

Don't know why you have to drag Andy into it. It's not his fault he has no running game or that Marvin waited until the 9th game to get his best WR2 option on the field. Andy certainly hasn't been perfect, but he's done about as well as most QB's would do under those circumstances. Has Marvin done as well here as most coaches would?

[pdub2005]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

And other's get credit. Yet when the Bengals lose this forum is flooded with Marvin needs to be fired. And other's get a pass or excuses.

Marvin gets?... a tumbleweed?

[Helldog]

Originally Posted by pdub2005

Marvin gets?... a tumbleweed?

A tumbleweed more than he deserves.

I see what you did now, BY !

[BengalYankee]

Originally Posted by McC

You mention being 7-2. You neglect to mention finishing the regular season 2-5, which is kind of a pattern with his teams, no matter who the QB is. Also forgot the customary one and done in the playoffs, also his pattern.

Don't know why you have to drag Andy into it. It's not his fault he has no running game or that Marvin waited until the 9th game to get his best WR2 option on the field. Andy certainly hasn't been perfect, but he's done about as well as most QB's would do under those circumstances. Has Marvin done as well here as most coaches would?

This has nothing to do about dragging Andy into "it". What this has to do is a double standard. You mention the lack of a running game, yet we did not have a good running game last week either, yet we won. So that excuse is moot. We beat the World Champions without a running game.

All I am saying is that Andy and Marvin or "tied to the hip", you can't separate them. When one does well, the other should be equally credited or blamed. If Andy was a lights out QB and our defense stunk then we could separate Andy and Marvin. As of right now they should get equal billing.

[BabaBoey31]

A lot of people love to bash on Marvin. I'm sure the Bengals are only as good as they are all due to him. He has pushed Brown more than anyone. His hands have been tied at times, and he's done the best with what he has. Has he made a lot of mistakes and are there better HC out there...hell yes. No one was coming here, or would've probably stayed. If they would've, it would probably been as a stepping stone just to move on.

I hear a lot of people want Zim moved up to HC. I've seen a lot of "can't miss coordinators not make good HC. **** Lebeau and many Pats former coaches haven't fared so well as HC's. How many teams have interviewed Zim and passed?

Just to get rid of Marvin isn't going to help. We have to have a good HC come in and take over. How many legit are out there, and willing to come here? I would love to see Marvin move into the Gen Mgr role, and have a kick *** HC come in. But who is that? And you have to be prepared to completely start over. More than likely if a new HC comes in he's going to clean house. So unless you're VERY lucky, you'll be looking at a rebuild season or two before it starts working out.

[SunsetBengal]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

And other's get credit. Yet when the Bengals lose this forum is flooded with Marvin needs to be fired. And other's get a pass or excuses.

Actually....Someone did make a thread giving credit to Marvin Lewis on the win.

http://boards.bengals.com/showthread.php?t=105012

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by momadance02

But the fact remains: his team won a big game yesterday and nobody gives him any credit for it.


If they lose, it's all his fault. If they win, it's everybody but him.

My personal pet peeve is when he gets blamed for playcalling...That's the coordinators, not the Head Coach.

[BengalYankee]

Originally Posted by SunsetBengal

Actually....Someone did make a thread giving credit to Marvin Lewis on the win.

http://boards.bengals.com/showthread.php?t=105012

SunsetBengal

[McC]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

This has nothing to do about dragging Andy into "it". What this has to do is a double standard. You mention the lack of a running game, yet we did not have a good running game last week either, yet we won. So that excuse is moot. We beat the World Champions without a running game.

All I am saying is that Andy and Marvin or "tied to the hip", you can't separate them. When one does well, the other should be equally credited or blamed. If Andy was a lights out QB and our defense stunk then we could separate Andy and Marvin. As of right now they should get equal billing.

You say it has nothing to do with dragging Andy into it and then spend a paragraph doing exactly that. Which is it?


Yes, beat the Champs without a running game because Andy threw 4 td passes, one to a guy Marvin wouldn't even play until very recently. Whose fault is it there's no running game, btw? Is it Andy's?

Don't overlook the fact that the Giants were pretty dreadfully awful yesterday. I loved the win, but come on, the Giants were very bad. The Bengals probably made them look bad, but the Giants sure helped. You're really going to let AJ Green run free through your secondary the first series of the game? Somebody said most any team in the NFL could have beaten the Giants yesterday, which might very well be true.

Let's just let Marvin win two in a row before we crown him king, though, okay?

A HC spends as much time sukking as Marvin has, it's really no mystery why fans think what they do of him. There's no double standard either. It's called the nature of the beast.

Marvin, you were spectacular yesterday and we as fans slighted you terribly for winning one in a row. Allow me to personally right this horrible wrong. Marvin, I bow to your genius.

Also, BY, uncle on the gigantic photos.

[Helldog]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

SunsetBengal

Nice aim ya girl scout. Aiming way too high.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

Andy Reid derserves to be fired. He had the "Dream Team" last year and they went flop. The Bengals were not supposed to do anything especially with a rookie QB and WR. The Bengals made the playoffs.

The Eagles and Bengals payroll are vastly different. The Eagles have high priced stars and FA's on their team.

Case in point.

Bengals Salary for 2012 is $51,341,172

Eagles Salary for 2012 is $90,201,805


I rest my case.

Reference

http://www.sportscity.com/nfl/salari...gles-salaries/

http://www.sportscity.com/nfl/salari...gals-salaries/

U expect MB to start spending to the cap?....The hope is that the salary floor will force him to spend closer to what other teams do and I suppose if that's ever the case and Lewis then starts winning playoff games, then I'll cede the point.

Since I expect MB to still find ways to lowball the payroll (as much as he legally can under the rules) and since Marvin's game management appears to me to stink, I'll continue to presume that we need to get a more talented HC in here. One who can do more with less and one who appears in control of game situations and most importantly, one that wins playoff games.

Lulz at you apologizing for Lewis dude, it really is funny to me. Everyone knows that guy should have been fired a long time ago. He's had some talented teams in spite of the payroll deal and he just doesn't get the job done. Way past time to move on.

[bengalfan74]

Really ?? 10 years in and you really can make a thread like this, wow !

[twlssn03]

Originally Posted by BengalB

I'm not sure Marvin needs to be fired from this "organization" but he certainly needs to be removed from the HC position. I think he has a good eye for talent and has a good effect on the players (ex: Burfict) and knows the NFL and this system very well.

My dream scenario (since it is past time for Mikey to retire and enjoy those Benjamin's, take up golf, travel, buy another brown suit, something) would be to make Giggles the GM and either promote Zim to HC or bring in someone like awesome, like Cowher. THEN we'd win all sorts of playoff games, maybe a SB even.

If only...

Sounds good to me!!!

[Wyche'sWarrior]

Originally Posted by McC

You say it has nothing to do with dragging Andy into it and then spend a paragraph doing exactly that. Which is it?


Yes, beat the Champs without a running game because Andy threw 4 td passes, one to a guy Marvin wouldn't even play until very recently. Whose fault is it there's no running game, btw? Is it Andy's?

Don't overlook the fact that the Giants were pretty dreadfully awful yesterday. I loved the win, but come on, the Giants were very bad. The Bengals probably made them look bad, but the Giants sure helped. You're really going to let AJ Green run free through your secondary the first series of the game? Somebody said most any team in the NFL could have beaten the Giants yesterday, which might very well be true.

Let's just let Marvin win two in a row before we crown him king, though, okay?

A HC spends as much time sukking as Marvin has, it's really no mystery why fans think what they do of him. There's no double standard either. It's called the nature of the beast.

Marvin, you were spectacular yesterday and we as fans slighted you terribly for winning one in a row. Allow me to personally right this horrible wrong. Marvin, I bow to your genius.

Also, BY, uncle on the gigantic photos.

The "general manager"?

[Wyche'sWarrior]

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

U expect MB to start spending to the cap?....The hope is that the salary floor will force him to spend closer to what other teams do and I suppose if that's ever the case and Lewis then starts winning playoff games, then I'll cede the point.

Since I expect MB to still find ways to lowball the payroll (as much as he legally can under the rules) and since Marvin's game management appears to me to stink, I'll continue to presume that we need to get a more talented HC in here. One who can do more with less and one who appears in control of game situations and most importantly, one that wins playoff games.

Lulz at you apologizing for Lewis dude, it really is funny to me. Everyone knows that guy should have been fired a long time ago. He's had some talented teams in spite of the payroll deal and he just doesn't get the job done. Way past time to move on.

Oh, you mean like the one our "general manger" fired when he arrived on the scene to take over the reigns from daddy? I agree......

[Ryan Mc]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

....And other's get credit. Yet when the Bengals lose this forum is flooded with Marvin needs to be fired. And other's get a pass or excuses.

I think you need to read the boards more thoroughly if you think others get a pass. When we lose there are plenty threads calling for the Hayes brothers to be fired, or for Alexander to be fired. And, of course, Bratkowski was a favorite whipping boy when he was here. And, plenty players get heat and are targets of "needs benching" threads. If you think Lewis is the only target on here when the team is losing you're missing A LOT of threads.

Originally Posted by momadance02

But the fact remains: his team won a big game yesterday and nobody gives him any credit for it.


If they lose, it's all his fault. If they win, it's everybody but him.

When his team wins several big games instead of "a" big game Lewis may start getting some credit as a coach. He did win coach of the year the season we swept the AFC North after all ... not bad for a coach whose team lost their first playoff game at home.

We'll see what happens this week. We play an absolutely miserable Chiefs team who are coming off a short week following a brutal, heartbreaking loss in their best effort of the season. If we are a well-coached team, we should win this game easily by two TDs. (Crazy fact: when the Chiefs jumped out to a 10-0 lead on Pitt on Monday it was the first time all season that they led a football game in regulation time!! Their only win this season came in OT after they trailed the entire game before forcing OT late and then winning)

[JohnHenry]

First, no single game defines whether one is a good head coach or not – to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

Second, how much blame or praise a head coach receives – or any manager for that matter – should be directly proportional to how much control he has, and how much cooperation the GM/Owner provides.
Unfortunately, Marvin Lewis has little of the former and almost none of the latter.
Therefore, comparing Marvin Lewis’ performance to others must be done with a discernible eye.

To my point – Here is a brief list of the obstacles Marvin Lewis has to overcome that most head coaches don’t.

1. He doesn’t get to select all of his assistant coaches.
2. He doesn’t get to fire coaches at will.
3. He doesn’t have the organizational advantages others have for attracting free agents.
4. The owner he works for typically spends less than other owners in free agency.
5. The Bengals are the only organization this far north with no indoor practice facility.
6. The organizations scouting staff is the smallest in the league.
7. The owner’s priority is not winning; it’s running the business his way – the examples are many.
8. etc., etc., etc.

In short – Mike Brown is the common losing thread and it’s difficult to fairly judge a head coaches job performance given the disadvantage Mike Brown presents.

Think of it this way – By equal measure, Marvin Lewis should have been fired years ago.
Unfortunately, given the current owner, equal measure is not justified.
Nope… the full blame for the organizations failures over the last twenty years should go to Mike Brown and Mike Brown alone.

Marvin Lewis is just another offering soon to be sacrificed at the altar of Mike Brown's narcissism.

Rinse... Repeat.

[BengaliJack]

Originally Posted by 740Bengal

We want consistency out of this staff and Marvin.... example.. Sanu, Peerman, offensive playcalling diversity..throwing on first down, aggressive defense. Until Marvin and Co do this every week, and put us in positions to win games, Marvin will get the heat as he should...

[Wyche'sWarrior]

Originally Posted by JohnHenry

First, no single game defines whether one is a good head coach or not – to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

Second, how much blame or praise a head coach receives – or any manager for that matter – should be directly proportional to how much control he has, and how much cooperation the GM/Owner provides.
Unfortunately, Marvin Lewis has little of the former and almost none of the latter.
Therefore, comparing Marvin Lewis’ performance to others must be done with a discernible eye.

To my point – Here is a brief list of the obstacles Marvin Lewis has to overcome that most head coaches don’t.

1. He doesn’t get to select all of his assistant coaches.
2. He doesn’t get to fire coaches at will.
3. He doesn’t have the organizational advantages others have for attracting free agents.
4. The owner he works for typically spends less than other owners in free agency.
5. The Bengals are the only organization this far north with no indoor practice facility.
6. The organizations scouting staff is the smallest in the league.
7. The owner’s priority is not winning; it’s running the business his way – the examples are many.
8. etc., etc., etc.

In short – Mike Brown is the common losing thread and it’s difficult to fairly judge a head coaches job performance given the disadvantage Mike Brown presents.

Think of it this way – By equal measure, Marvin Lewis should have been fired years ago.
Unfortunately, given the current owner, equal measure is not justified.
Nope… the full blame for the organizations failures over the last twenty years should go to Mike Brown and Mike Brown alone.

Marvin Lewis is just another offering soon to be sacrificed at the altar of Mike Brown's narcissism.

Rinse... Repeat.

No Marvin apologist here, but this, This, THIS, THIS.......x's infinity

[THEBURG]

Originally Posted by Wyche'sWarrior

No Marvin apologist here, but this, This, THIS, THIS.......x's infinity

x2222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 22222222222222222222

[fortyyearfan]

Originally Posted by Ryan Mc

I think you need to read the boards more thoroughly if you think others get a pass. When we lose there are plenty threads calling for the Hayes brothers to be fired, or for Alexander to be fired. And, of course, Bratkowski was a favorite whipping boy when he was here. And, plenty players get heat and are targets of "needs benching" threads. If you think Lewis is the only target on here when the team is losing you're missing A LOT of threads.



When his team wins several big games instead of "a" big game Lewis may start getting some credit as a coach. He did win coach of the year the season we swept the AFC North after all ... not bad for a coach whose team lost their first playoff game at home.

We'll see what happens this week. We play an absolutely miserable Chiefs team who are coming off a short week following a brutal, heartbreaking loss in their best effort of the season. If we are a well-coached team, we should win this game easily by two TDs. (Crazy fact: when the Chiefs jumped out to a 10-0 lead on Pitt on Monday it was the first time all season that they led a football game in regulation time!! Their only win this season came in OT after they trailed the entire game before forcing OT late and then winning)

the chiefs will be very difficult to beat, period!!! if they get a head start on us, i think we lose.as far as marvin bashers, and i am one of them, he has had 10 years of losing, people, and mikey boy is right there with the blame.10 years folks.if he cannot get his team to play lights out this sunday, i believe he should be fired while still at arrowhead stadium. let him be their d coach of something.when this team plays lousy and they do alot, its on him. he is the head dude. no way should we have lost to the brownies and the dolphins. those should have been in the win column for us.that would have given us the same record as the stoolers.instead we are too far back to get it done Again.ANOTHER LOSING SEASON FOLKS. YES, i am so so happy they beat the gaints, but guess what?. they are SUPPOSED to beat teams in your place.i just feel, no matter what the players say, they do not play good enough long enough. i hope i see an improvement sunday as all of you do as well. i want another win. its been a good week for me this week. know why??? because my team the nati tigers beat crap out of someone this past sunday and that makes my whole week so much better to deal with and get through. i was even nice to my wifes cat.

[Ryan Mc]

Originally Posted by JohnHenry

....In short – Mike Brown is the common losing thread and it’s difficult to fairly judge a head coaches job performance given the disadvantage Mike Brown presents...

Fair enough post, all good points. However, a couple of things I would say in reply. Generally, there are reasons to argue that Lewis is not a good game-day/strategic coach (without getting into details here) ... clearly this has nothing to do with ownership. Also, as far as picking his own assistant coaches goes, there's no evidence that Lewis is actually good at this. He hand-picked Leslie Frazier as his first DC, then fired the guy after two years (some evidence against your point that he can't fire coaches at will) to be replaced by Chuck Bresnahan. This was an absolutely terrible decision which set our D back for three years before we fired Bresnahan and brought Zimmer in to clean up. Lewis has also been through three different LB coaches after hand-picking his first guy in Rickey Hunley.

Your points about the obstacles a Bengals head coach faces are completely valid, but I still feel a better coach could produce better than Lewis in the same environment. It doesn't have to be one or the other ... we can agree that Brown is a lousy owner and say that Lewis is a subpar coach at the same time.