Burma's Mock vs 4.0

[Burma]

Just when I had us pegged for a top 10 draft slot, we go and play for pride. As Marsellus Wallace said, “you may feel a slight sting. That's pride ****ing with you. **** pride. Pride only hurts. It never helps. You fight through that ****.”


1. Sam Montgomery, DE, LSU

The most complete DE in this draft. Rocket fast off the snap; solid against the run and a full complement of pass rushing moves. He is the stud we have been missing for a long time.

2. Alec Ogletree, LB, Georgia

Athletically gifted monster who is a natural 4-3 MLB. Runs and covers like a Safety, hits like a truck.

2b. Eric Reid, S, LSU

Our long sought after answer at Safety. Steal of the draft. His stock is slipping through no fault of his own. Elam now looks to be the first safety off and Jefferson and Vaccarro are on the rise.

3. Montee Ball, RB, Wisconsin

Surprise! HE’S BACK! After an abysmal start to his season behind a make shift O-line Ball has quietly put up a very productive season to the tune of 1226 yards and 16 TD so far. His turn around is so significant that he is starting to generate Heisman buzz again.
Due it all back; Speed, power, soft hands, blitz pick up. No need for a RBBC approach.

4. Travis Frederick, C, Wisconsin

The reason Montee Ball is going in the 3rd round. After a terrible start that saw their O-line coach fired the Badgers line has solidified behind the 6’4” 338lb center. Frederick has emerged as the heir to Peter Konz and is the anchor of the O-line.

5. Ray Edwards, DE, LSU

if you watch the LSU defense and don’t notice Edwards, you’re not paying enough attention. Key part of that rotation has 3.5 sacks so far and is a monster against the run. Starter and star on any other team in college football.

6. Ray Graham, RB, Pitt

Electric runner, would add the lightning to Ball’s thunder. Slow recovery from injury and stupid off field mistakes cost his stock a great deal.

6. Alex Hurst, OT, LSU

2nd team all SEC. Strong run blocking mauler, needs work in pass pro. Back up for Andre. Quality depth.

[BengalDawg]

I would love if Ogletree fell to us in the second

[blt4584]

Reid has been taking bad angles all year. He has also been burned in man a few times, but I put that more on the coaches. He should never be manning up on a WR.

I think Hurst should be considered a guard. He is terrible in pass pro. He also left the team after the Fla. game and no one is really sure why.

I would be very pleased with this draft.

[Burma]

Originally Posted by BengalDawg

I would love if Ogletree fell to us in the second

I think its going to be very close. Oakland can win no more games if we are to have a shot at Ogletree.

Originally Posted by blt4584

Reid has been taking bad angles all year. He has also been burned in man a few times, but I put that more on the coaches. He should never be manning up on a WR.

I think Hurst should be considered a guard. He is terrible in pass pro. He also left the team after the Fla. game and no one is really sure why.

The more I watched Reid this year the more I thought he would do well as a SS in the pros. He had had a few mistakes this year that. will contribute to his slide.

Hurst has been wretched in pass pro this year, but equally dominant in run blocking. I could see him backing up RG.

[OchoCincos]

First three selections would be very good.
As for Ball in the third though, I think there will be better RBs to choose than him.

You are right about the power, the blocking, toughness, and TD machine. However, he has not ran well against a decent defense this year, netting below a 4.0 average against both Nebraska and Michigan State. He also has had only 9 receptions for 65 receiving yards and no receiving touchdowns this year. I know he had 300 receiving yards last year (12.8 YPR), but he has not been able to reproduce the same production this year. Ball only runs a 4.57 40-yard dash, which is slower than most of the RBs projected around him.

Montee Ball has come back very well from his injury, but being considered for the Heisman is a huge stretch. He has not shown the same ability as he did last year when he had a better line. He would be an upgrade over BJGE though.

[Burma]

Originally Posted by OchoCincos

First three selections would be very good.
As for Ball in the third though, I think there will be better RBs to choose than him.

You are right about the power, the blocking, toughness, and TD machine. However, he has not ran well against a decent defense this year, netting below a 4.0 average against both Nebraska and Michigan State. He also has had only 9 receptions for 65 receiving yards and no receiving touchdowns this year. I know he had 300 receiving yards last year (12.8 YPR), but he has not been able to reproduce the same production this year. Ball only runs a 4.57 40-yard dash, which is slower than most of the RBs projected around him.

Montee Ball has come back very well from his injury, but being considered for the Heisman is a huge stretch. He has not shown the same ability as he did last year when he had a better line. He would be an upgrade over BJGE though.

Their next game against Ohio State will be huge for him. I think he has to go over 100 yards in it, the championship game and a bowl game to be considered really back. Also I imagine a lot of the heisman hype is coming from the disarray there since Geno Smith gave the trophy back.

[OchoCincos]

Originally Posted by Burma

Their next game against Ohio State will be huge for him. I think he has to go over 100 yards in it, the championship game and a bowl game to be considered really back. Also I imagine a lot of the heisman hype is coming from the disarray there since Geno Smith gave the trophy back.

Definitely. Penn State isn't terrible either. The rest of the year will be a much better indicator of whether Ball is a product of his OL or a stout runner.

[Jasonew6]

1. Don't take this wrong, I do not dislike the pick. But I doubt it happens. Especially if they re-sign MJ. And the way they rotate DEs, will they use a first round pick on a guy who won't play every down?

2a. Ok.

2b. If he lasts that long. Most of the rankings I see still have him in 1.

3. I think Wisconsin RBs are primarily a product of their O-line. How many great Wisky RBs have been great NFL RBs?

4. Cook isn't going anywhere and Robinson seems to be an adequate backup. Don't see them drafting a center unless he is clearly the BPA and no one of value that meets a need is available.

5. Not if we take the DE in 1. I think we might take 1 rotational DE, but I don't see us taking more than 1 (depending on free agency, of course).

6s. Ok.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Jasonew6

1. Don't take this wrong, I do not dislike the pick. But I doubt it happens. Especially if they re-sign MJ. And the way they rotate DEs, will they use a first round pick on a guy who won't play every down?

If the Bengals extend MJ, they still have to deal with Dunlap's expiring contract in 2014. Jamaal Anderson expires in 2014. Geathers & Gilberry's contracts expire in 2013.


I would be good with a rotation of Dunlap/MJ/Montgomery/Edwards (if Edwards is greater than Jamaal Anderson & Gilberry).

[Jasonew6]

Originally Posted by mulligan

If the Bengals extend MJ, they still have to deal with Dunlap's expiring contract in 2014. Jamaal Anderson expires in 2014. Geathers & Gilberry's contracts expire in 2013.


I would be good with a rotation of Dunlap/MJ/Montgomery/Edwards (if Edwards is greater than Jamaal Anderson & Gilberry).

I'm not saying they won't draft a DE. I'm saying I will be surprised if they do it in 1.

[CincyGuy344]

I hope we get the best defensive plater available at LB, DE, or SS

[Burma]

Originally Posted by Jasonew6

1. Don't take this wrong, I do not dislike the pick. But I doubt it happens. Especially if they re-sign MJ. And the way they rotate DEs, will they use a first round pick on a guy who won't play every down?

2a. Ok.

2b. If he lasts that long. Most of the rankings I see still have him in 1.

3. I think Wisconsin RBs are primarily a product of their O-line. How many great Wisky RBs have been great NFL RBs?

4. Cook isn't going anywhere and Robinson seems to be an adequate backup. Don't see them drafting a center unless he is clearly the BPA and no one of value that meets a need is available.

5. Not if we take the DE in 1. I think we might take 1 rotational DE, but I don't see us taking more than 1 (depending on free agency, of course).

6s. Ok.

No sweat. We don't have to agree on everthing. I took the players I thought would help us most by providing the most upgrades and impact, not picking them based on what I think the front office would do.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Jasonew6

I'm not saying they won't draft a DE. I'm saying I will be surprised if they do it in 1.

As demonstrated against the Giants, when our defense gets consistant pass rush on opposing QBs, many good things happen.

With 3 somewhat expensive dlinemen (with the probably extension of Atkins, Dunlap, MJ), in my mind, it makes sense to draft a cheap, high quality DE and thereby establish a defensive identity to the football team. Similar to the Giants approach.

[Jasonew6]

Originally Posted by mulligan

As demonstrated against the Giants, when our defense gets consistant pass rush on opposing QBs, many good things happen.

With 3 somewhat expensive dlinemen (with the probably extension of Atkins, Dunlap, MJ), in my mind, it makes sense to draft a cheap, high quality DE and thereby establish a defensive identity to the football team. Similar to the Giants approach.

What do those guys have in common though?

None of them are first round picks. A 2, a 3, and a 4.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Jasonew6

What do those guys have in common though?

None of them are first round picks. A 2, a 3, and a 4.

What else do these DE guys have in common? Dunlap/MJ/Geathers/Gilberry? Inconsistant pass rush. None against Cleveland, Miami, Pittsburgh, Ravens. Possibly more games.

If adding a 1st round DE would result in a consistant pass rush, then I support 100% drafting a 1st round DE.

Heck, if adding a 1st round & 2nd round DE would create a consistant and dominant pass rush, then I am support this move 100%.

[JungleRock85]

Originally Posted by Burma

Just when I had us pegged for a top 10 draft slot, we go and play for pride. As Marsellus Wallace said, “you may feel a slight sting. That's pride ****ing with you. **** pride. Pride only hurts. It never helps. You fight through that ****.”


1. Sam Montgomery, DE, LSU

The most complete DE in this draft. Rocket fast off the snap; solid against the run and a full complement of pass rushing moves. He is the stud we have been missing for a long time.

2. Alec Ogletree, LB, Georgia

Athletically gifted monster who is a natural 4-3 MLB. Runs and covers like a Safety, hits like a truck.

2b. Eric Reid, S, LSU

Our long sought after answer at Safety. Steal of the draft. His stock is slipping through no fault of his own. Elam now looks to be the first safety off and Jefferson and Vaccarro are on the rise.

3. Montee Ball, RB, Wisconsin

Surprise! HE’S BACK! After an abysmal start to his season behind a make shift O-line Ball has quietly put up a very productive season to the tune of 1226 yards and 16 TD so far. His turn around is so significant that he is starting to generate Heisman buzz again.
Due it all back; Speed, power, soft hands, blitz pick up. No need for a RBBC approach.

4. Travis Frederick, C, Wisconsin

The reason Montee Ball is going in the 3rd round. After a terrible start that saw their O-line coach fired the Badgers line has solidified behind the 6’4” 338lb center. Frederick has emerged as the heir to Peter Konz and is the anchor of the O-line.

5. Ray Edwards, DE, LSU

if you watch the LSU defense and don’t notice Edwards, you’re not paying enough attention. Key part of that rotation has 3.5 sacks so far and is a monster against the run. Starter and star on any other team in college football.

6. Ray Graham, RB, Pitt

Electric runner, would add the lightning to Ball’s thunder. Slow recovery from injury and stupid off field mistakes cost his stock a great deal.

6. Alex Hurst, OT, LSU

2nd team all SEC. Strong run blocking mauler, needs work in pass pro. Back up for Andre. Quality depth.

Pretty nice draft. I doubt our coaches go with 3 straight defensive players because they seem to go offense/defense back and forth a lot. What makes your mock draft work well though to me is getting Frederick in the 4th and two solid RB's that would definitely be upgrades to what we have at the position now.

[Jasonew6]

Originally Posted by mulligan

What else do these DE guys have in common? Dunlap/MJ/Geathers/Gilberry? Inconsistant pass rush. None against Cleveland, Miami, Pittsburgh, Ravens. Possibly more games.

If adding a 1st round DE would result in a consistant pass rush, then I support 100% drafting a 1st round DE.

Heck, if adding a 1st round & 2nd round DE would create a consistant and dominant pass rush, then I am support this move 100%.

I still think that has more to do with coaching than ability.

Justin Smith was a "good" player here. He goes to SF and suddenly he's one of the top D-linemen in the NFL.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Jasonew6

I still think that has more to do with coaching than ability.

Justin Smith was a "good" player here. He goes to SF and suddenly he's one of the top D-linemen in the NFL.

I believe that the Justin Smith debate has been beaten into the ground.

In my understanding, Justin Smith was more of a 3-4 defensive end. Hence, there is a better fit in San Fran. Plus, there are a lot more defensive playmakers on the 49er defense (Navarro, Willis).

As for your concern about coaching, I don't think that there is much validity as pertains to our defensive line. Geno was a 4th rounder, and he is doing very well. Both Dunlap (2nd) & MJ (3rd) were concerns based on their motor in college. They have done quite well.

In my opinion, the Bengals simply don't have enough playmakers on the defense. The Bengals either need to add a player with elite talent at DE, or they need to add multiple "b" level talent players to the dline.

[Draftdruggie]

Pretty big LSU fan huh. Nice mock although I wouldnt touch Ball until the fourth.