Trading Back & Getting Depth

[mulligan]

Depending on where the Bengals are slotted in the 2013 draft, the Bengals could trade back once or twice.

If they can trade back twice, I think that they may be able to get enough depth at several positions to warrant the value over not trading back and getting the BPA.

Trading back twice and netting an additional 2nd & 3rd round pick.

1 - Safety - Vaccaro, Texas
2a - DE - Jackson Jeffcoat, Texas (injured) or Cornellius Carradine, Florida State
2b - RB - Giovani Bernard, North Carolina
2c - WR - Cordarelle Paterson, Tennessee
3a - LB - Nico Johnson, Alabama
3b - RB - Kenjon Barner, Oregon
4 - LB - Michael Mauti, Penn State
5 - TE - Michael Williams, Alabama
6a - RT2 - Alex Hurst, LSU
6b - K - Dustin Hopkins, Florida State

QB: Dalton/Gradkowski
RB: Bernard/BJGE/Barner/Leonard
FB: Pressley
Oline: Whit/Collins, Boling/Wharton, Cook/Robinson, Zeitler, Smith/Hurst
TE: Gresham/Charles/Williams
WR: Green/Jones, Patterson/Whalen, Sanu/Hawkins

Dline:
DE: Dunlap/Jeffcoat & MJ/Gilberry
DT: Atkins/Still, Peko/Sims/Thompson
LB: Howard/Lemur, Burfict/Johnson, Maualuga/Mauti
CB1: Hall/Newman
CB2: Kirkpatrick
NCB: Pacman/Allen
FS: Nelson/Iloka
SS: Vaccaro/Mays/Veteran (Clements or Crocker)

[berserkerone88]

Can't see Vaccaro being a first round pick right now unless he destroys the combine.
He has laid some stinkers.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

Can't see Vaccaro being a first round pick right now unless he destroys the combine.
He has laid some stinkers.

Perhaps.

But if the Bengals trade back to between the 25th and 28th slot, then I wouldn't be opposed to slightly reaching for a Strong Safety that fills one the biggest need on the Bengals.

[Hammerstripes]

I have ZERO interest in trading back. If anything, I would rather trade up in the draft and secure a guy that can be an impact guy from day one.

I'm pretty sure (although I may be wrong) that we could draft a RB and a S with our 2 2nd round picks. After that, I don't really see the need for added depth that would require picking up 2 or 3 extra later round picks.

If we do a good job of signing our own guys, then where do we really need depth?

DE would be solid
DT is already great
CBs are pretty good IF Dre plays solid
OT is solid
OG is solid
WR is filled with depth guys already.

[OchoCincos]

We have much more of a chance to trade down than up, based on recent history with drafting in the first round. I can see this happening, and this scenario would be very acceptable if it did happen. It hits nearly all of our needs, except maybe a better SAM than relying on Maualuga. Maualuga did seem to play better at SAM than MIKE though.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Hammerstripes

I have ZERO interest in trading back. If anything, I would rather trade up in the draft and secure a guy that can be an impact guy from day one.

I'm pretty sure (although I may be wrong) that we could draft a RB and a S with our 2 2nd round picks. After that, I don't really see the need for added depth that would require picking up 2 or 3 extra later round picks.

If we do a good job of signing our own guys, then where do we really need depth?

DE would be solid
DT is already great
CBs are pretty good IF Dre plays solid
OT is solid
OG is solid
WR is filled with depth guys already.

I guess I just disagree. I could see the Bengals improving dramatically by adding a SS, RB1, CoP RB, WR2, rotational DE, SAM(2), MIKE2, TE3, RT2, K.

LB corp is a bit of a train wreck. IMO, the Bengals needs to add at least 2 LBs to shore up the LB corp next year. Howard is a FA and coming back from IR. Maualuga is a FA and having a rough year. Burfict is still raw and an unknown. Lawson has seemed to be a bust and is a FA. Skuta can play the run but is horrible against the pass and a free agent. Vinnie Rey seems to just be a STers and is a RFA.

The current WR corp has bodies but may not have a legit WR2. Sanu, Hawkins, & Whalen may all be slot receivers. Jones is an unknown and may be a project for quite some time.

It seems to me that the Bengals need 2 or 3 RBs. BJGE seems to be a solid 3rd down back. Peerman doesn't seem to get consistant playing time. Bernard Scott is aging and coming back from IR. Leonard is okay, but really has no ability to run the ball.

Roland is a FA and the Bengals need a quality RT2, especially considering that Collins is a FA in 2014. I am not satisfied with either Cook or Robinson. I could see adding a quality center in this draft at some point.

[BengalDawg]

I've got to say moving back can really make sense. For example this year we had no interest in DeCastro (apparently he was considered too slow for a top pick), Zeitler was the number one G on our board and we knew he'd be available later. We were able to get our first choice plus an additional DT for really nothing. If we have the chance to move back I'm all for it as long as we are able to still fill our need without a significant drop off. Moving up is too risky especially when it isn't a huge need position like QB

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Hammerstripes

I have ZERO interest in trading back. If anything, I would rather trade up in the draft and secure a guy that can be an impact guy from day one.

I'm pretty sure (although I may be wrong) that we could draft a RB and a S with our 2 2nd round picks. After that, I don't really see the need for added depth that would require picking up 2 or 3 extra later round picks.

If we do a good job of signing our own guys, then where do we really need depth?

DE would be solid
DT is already great
CBs are pretty good IF Dre plays solid
OT is solid
OG is solid
WR is filled with depth guys already.

In addition, the Bengals historically haven't done much in free agency. So, in my view, there are going to be multiple glaring holes on this roster.

WTS, with $21.5 million in salary cap ($9 million roll over from 2012 and $12.5 million from Clements/Geathers/Faine), I struggle to figure how the Bengals are going to re-sign all of their free agents.

Andre Smith - $6 million
MJ - $4 million
Maualuga - $4 million
Howard - $5 million
Pacman - $4 million
Crocker/Clements - $3 million
Pat Sims - $2.5
= $28.5 million

Of course, this doesn't take into consideration extending Gresham, Atkins, or Dunlap who are all eligible for extension next year. Perhaps, the Bengals will squeeze Peko & Jason Allen to get some more salary cap space. Idk.

[Hammerstripes]

Originally Posted by mulligan

In addition, the Bengals historically haven't done much in free agency. So, in my view, there are going to be multiple glaring holes on this roster.

WTS, with $21.5 million in salary cap ($9 million roll over from 2012 and $12.5 million from Clements/Geathers/Faine), I struggle to figure how the Bengals are going to re-sign all of their free agents.

Andre Smith - $6 million
MJ - $4 million
Maualuga - $4 million
Howard - $5 million
Pacman - $4 million
Crocker/Clements - $3 million
Pat Sims - $2.5
= $28.5 million

Of course, this doesn't take into consideration extending Gresham, Atkins, or Dunlap who are all eligible for extension next year. Perhaps, the Bengals will squeeze Peko & Jason Allen to get some more salary cap space. Idk.

How are we going to sign our free agents? Simple, if we are $9 million under that cap this year, then we are more than likely more than that under that cap next year.

There is NO way that the Bengals sign the following to the contracts that you suggest:

Rey at $4 million? That's a joke.
Howard at $5 million? Not at the age of 30 coming off an ACL.
Pacman at $4 million? For a nickel corner?
Clements is making $4 million per year, he won't get anywhere near that next year.

There is plenty of money to go around:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-cap-situation

[Hammerstripes]

Originally Posted by mulligan

I guess I just disagree. I could see the Bengals improving dramatically by adding a SS, RB1, CoP RB, WR2, rotational DE, SAM(2), MIKE2, TE3, RT2, K.

LB corp is a bit of a train wreck. IMO, the Bengals needs to add at least 2 LBs to shore up the LB corp next year. Howard is a FA and coming back from IR. Maualuga is a FA and having a rough year. Burfict is still raw and an unknown. Lawson has seemed to be a bust and is a FA. Skuta can play the run but is horrible against the pass and a free agent. Vinnie Rey seems to just be a STers and is a RFA.

The current WR corp has bodies but may not have a legit WR2. Sanu, Hawkins, & Whalen may all be slot receivers. Jones is an unknown and may be a project for quite some time.

It seems to me that the Bengals need 2 or 3 RBs. BJGE seems to be a solid 3rd down back. Peerman doesn't seem to get consistant playing time. Bernard Scott is aging and coming back from IR. Leonard is okay, but really has no ability to run the ball.

Roland is a FA and the Bengals need a quality RT2, especially considering that Collins is a FA in 2014. I am not satisfied with either Cook or Robinson. I could see adding a quality center in this draft at some point.

What makes you think that we can add impact players outside of the 2nd round? If you look back over the past 10 years, almost every Bengal starter that has been added through the draft has been a first or second round pick.

We don't need 2 or 3 running backs. We need 1. If we draft a stud, BJGE, Leonard and Peerman would make an excellent group.

You're right, the LB corps is somewhat of a mess. However, you have 1 keeper in Burfict. We really need to add 2.


If we retain our guys (which shouldn't be an issue with a projected $42 million in cap space next year), then we really only need to address the following areas:

RB, S, LBx2

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Hammerstripes

How are we going to sign our free agents? Simple, if we are $9 million under that cap this year, then we are more than likely more than that under that cap next year.

There is NO way that the Bengals sign the following to the contracts that you suggest:

Rey at $4 million? That's a joke.
Howard at $5 million? Not at the age of 30 coming off an ACL.
Pacman at $4 million? For a nickel corner?
Clements is making $4 million per year, he won't get anywhere near that next year.

There is plenty of money to go around:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-cap-situation

This Bleacher Report is WAY off. The Bengals have $9 million roll over from 2012 (down from $20.5 million on 3/30/2012). Then their big contracts that expire are Clements, Geathers, & Faine (adding $11.5 million in salary cap). So, in 2013, the Bengals will have roughly $21.5 million to sepnd.

For the most part, all the other 2013 free agents are relatively small potatoes. Look yourself! http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/

Again, by trading back, the Bengals would get three (3) second round picks. So, the Bengals would have four (4) players selected in the first two rounds.

Adding 2 starters on offense (RB & WR2) & 2 starters on defense (SS & DE) would substantially improve the Bengals.

In addition by trading back, the Bengals would have two third round picks would could provide depth. (LB & CoP RB ). After the second round, I am not projecting "impact" players. I am projecting players that add depth. Barner (CoP RB ), Johnson (MIKE2), Mauti (SAM2), Williams (TE3), Hurst (RT2), K.

What do you think Maualuga will get paid?

What do you think Howard will get paid?

What do you think Pacman will get paid? Jason Allen is scheduled to make $4.0 million next year, fyi. Perhaps, in the bengal's minds, $4 million isn't too much for a NCB. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnat...s/jason-allen/

I included Clements salary dropping off in my intial post.

[Hammerstripes]

Originally Posted by mulligan

This Bleacher Report is WAY off. The Bengals have $9 million roll over from 2012 (down from $20.5 million on 3/30/2012). Then their big contracts that expire are Clements, Geathers, & Faine (I included Clements to add an addition $11.5 million in salary cap). So, in 2013, the Bengals will have roughly $21.5 million to sepnd. All the other free agents are relatively small potatoes. Look yourself! http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/

Again, by trading back, the Bengals would get three (3) second round picks. So, the Bengals would have four (4) players selected in the first two rounds.

Adding 2 starters on offense (RB & WR2) & 2 starters on defense (SS & DE) would substantially improve the Bengals.

In addition by trading back, the Bengals would have two third round picks would could provide depth. (LB & CoP RB ). After the second round, I am not projecting "impact" players. I am projecting players that add depth. Barner (CoP RB ), Johnson (MIKE2), Mauti (SAM2), Williams (TE3), Hurst (RT2), K.

What do you think Maualuga will get paid?

What do you think Howard will get paid?

What do you think Pacman will get paid? Jason Allen is scheduled to make $4.0 million next year, fyi. Perhaps, in the bengal's minds, $4 million isn't too much for a NCB. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnat...s/jason-allen/

I included Clements salary dropping off in my intial post.

I would much rather use a 3rd rounder to move up and get an impact player rather than use it on a depth player.

This team's track record past the 2nd round is suspect at best.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Hammerstripes

I would much rather use a 3rd rounder to move up and get an impact player rather than use it on a depth player.

This team's track record past the 2nd round is suspect at best.

To get an impact player (Jarvis Jones, maybe Werner, maybe Te'o) it would probably cost the Bengals a 2nd rounder like the Cowboys going from 14th to 6th, swapping 1sts, and giving up their 2nd.

IMO, this Bengals team is not 2 starters from being a legit playoff contender year-in and year-out.

WTS, adding 2 players, how are you going to fill all of these holes?

Absolute Needs: SS, DE, RB1
Priority Needs: CoP RB, WR2, SAM2, MIKE2
Depth Needs: RT2, TE3, CB

In my view, teams like New Englad have the option to trade up and get impact players, because they have a solid foundation. WTS, in my view, New England still has some big needs that could have been filled had they not traded up.

I'd rather add 4 starters (SS, rotational DE, RB1, & WR2) over adding 2 starters.

[Hammerstripes]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Looking at our current starters, who would you try to upgrade?

AJ, Sanu, Jones, Whalen, Hawkins are a very good group. If Sanu plays the rest of the year like he did this past week, I would say that there is no need to draft a WR. That's a huge IF.

QB - no

TE - Gresham and Charles - no need to draft a guy here.

OL - Whitworth, Boling, Robinson/Cook, Zeitler, Andre. No need to draft one here either.

RB - BJGE, Leonard, Peerman. We need a RB.

On offense, you can make and argument that we really need to add only a RB.

On defense:

DE - Johnson, Dunlap. We need some depth here, but I would much rather see a late to middle round specialist added. Either a speed rusher (Moch may already fill this need) or a run stuffer (Still may fit this need).

DT - Peko, Sims, Thompson, Still. Very solid group.

CB - Hall, Dre, Jones, Ghee, Prater, Allen. Don't really see a need here either.

S - Definitely need to get a starter in the draft.

LB - Burfict is about the only guy that has shown he can be a complete starter. We need to add 2 starting caliber guys.

I really think we could be 2 guys away from being a pretty legit team. Give me one of the top 2 RBs in the draft and Jarvis Jones and we are almost there.

Throw in a 2nd round safety and there's not a ton of holes.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Hammerstripes

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Looking at our current starters, who would you try to upgrade?

AJ, Sanu, Jones, Whalen, Hawkins are a very good group. If Sanu plays the rest of the year like he did this past week, I would say that there is no need to draft a WR. That's a huge IF.

QB - no

TE - Gresham and Charles - no need to draft a guy here.

OL - Whitworth, Boling, Robinson/Cook, Zeitler, Andre. No need to draft one here either.

RB - BJGE, Leonard, Peerman. We need a RB.

On offense, you can make and argument that we really need to add only a RB.

On defense:

DE - Johnson, Dunlap. We need some depth here, but I would much rather see a late to middle round specialist added. Either a speed rusher (Moch may already fill this need) or a run stuffer (Still may fit this need).

DT - Peko, Sims, Thompson, Still. Very solid group.

CB - Hall, Dre, Jones, Ghee, Prater, Allen. Don't really see a need here either.

S - Definitely need to get a starter in the draft.

LB - Burfict is about the only guy that has shown he can be a complete starter. We need to add 2 starting caliber guys.

I really think we could be 2 guys away from being a pretty legit team. Give me one of the top 2 RBs in the draft and Jarvis Jones and we are almost there.

Throw in a 2nd round safety and there's not a ton of holes.

How are the Bengals going to fill 4 needs (RB, Jarvis Jones, additional starting LB, & SS) with just two picks in the first two rounds? Trading up for Jarvis Jones will cost a 2nd rounder.

In my view, you need to add WR2 & DE to early draft needs. See below.

In my view, you can subtract one "starting calibre" LB; I am cool with Howard/Burfict/Maualuga as the starters providing the Bengals draft 2 LBs for competition & depth.

At WR, Sanu, Hawkins, & Whalen are arguably all slot WRs. We don't have a WR2 at all. We need one. The Bengals probably aren't going to keep Brandon Tate or Armon Binns next year. Marvin Jones MAY continue to evolve and be a legit WR2. But, he hasn't seen all that much time on the field and he has already gotten knicked up. IMO, WR2 is a big need. If AJ Green were to get injured, our WR corp would be PATHETIC!

At DE, our group seemingly takes weeks off between having good games. The dline produced next-to-no pass rush against the Browns, the Dolphins, and the Steelers. None against the Ravens either. Good pass rush against the Giants.

Dunlap has been consistant in his injuries. Without Dunlap, MJ seems to be nullified by the opponent's top pass protector.

And Moch?!? Moch has been placed on IR for 2 consecutive years due to migraines. I wouldn't count on Moch at all.

[Burma]

Originally Posted by Hammerstripes

On offense, you can make and argument that we really need to add only a RB.

On defense:

DE - Johnson, Dunlap. We need some depth here, but I would much rather see a late to middle round specialist added. Either a speed rusher (Moch may already fill this need) or a run stuffer (Still may fit this need).

DT - Peko, Sims, Thompson, Still. Very solid group.

CB - Hall, Dre, Jones, Ghee, Prater, Allen. Don't really see a need here either.

S - Definitely need to get a starter in the draft.

LB - Burfict is about the only guy that has shown he can be a complete starter. We need to add 2 starting caliber guys.

I really think we could be 2 guys away from being a pretty legit team. Give me one of the top 2 RBs in the draft and Jarvis Jones and we are almost there.

Throw in a 2nd round safety and there's not a ton of holes.

I can agree with you on the offense, although we could really stand to upgrade C, but really disagree on defense.

DE: 1 big need, 1 depth need.
MJ: free agent, may not be back. Takes 80%+ snaps.
Dunlap: Great when he's healthy.
Geathers: over paid soon to be gone.
Gillberry: couple snap a game body.

DT: No immediate need
Geno: Animal!
Peko: average to above average.
Sims: Average on 1 year deal. Doubt he returns.
Still: shown flashes, too early.
Thompson: too early.

LB: 2 big needs
Rey: Too little, too late.
Burfict: Very promising.
Howard: might not be back. average.

CB: 1 big need to 2 depth need. depends on Dre.
Hall: very good.
Dre: too early.
Pacman: Free agent, might not be back.
Newman: average, depth, old
Allen: 1 year left, #4 corner
Ghee: depth body.
Prater: depth body.

FS: No immediate need
Nelson: average to above average.
Illoka: too early.

SS: 1 big need.
Clements: Old stop gap.
Crocker: Chris ****ing Crocker are you ****ting me?
Mays: very below average.
Miles: very below average.
Dye: too early

So in addition to a RB and possible center we have big needs at DE, 2 at LB, S and assorted depth needs. We are much more than 2 players away.

[Hammerstripes]

I guess it remains to be seen where we are drafting. If we are drafting higher up, then it won't cost as much to move up to get a guy like Jones.

Keep in mind, there will probably be 2 QBs taken 1 and 2 this year again.

We can always add depth through free agency. That's about the only thing that the Bengals use it for these days. We don't have to add EVERY depth position through the draft.

I still contend that we can get 3 players in the first 2 rounds that fill major needs. If we can add 1 decent NFL caliber starter in free agency, this team will be vastly improved.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Burma

CB: 1 big need to 2 depth need. depends on Dre.
Hall: very good.
Dre: too early.
Pacman: Free agent, might not be back.
Newman: average, depth, old
Allen: 1 year left, #4 corner
Ghee: depth body.
Prater: depth body.

We always seem to disagree at the CB position.

CB1: Hall
CB2: Dre Kirk
NCB: Pacman/Allen

I could see the Bengals attempting to squeeze Allen to decrease his contract. I could see Pacman getting Allen's $4 million per year.

WTS, I am comfortable with these 4 CBs as the foundation for the CB corp. If the Bengals were to add another solid (not excellent) CB to this mix, this would be a very solid CB corp. I see the Bengals going with 5 CBs & 5 Safeties next year.

[Burma]

Originally Posted by Hammerstripes

I guess it remains to be seen where we are drafting. If we are drafting higher up, then it won't cost as much to move up to get a guy like Jones.

Keep in mind, there will probably be 2 QBs taken 1 and 2 this year again.

We can always add depth through free agency. That's about the only thing that the Bengals use it for these days. We don't have to add EVERY depth position through the draft.

I still contend that we can get 3 players in the first 2 rounds that fill major needs. If we can add 1 decent NFL caliber starter in free agency, this team will be vastly improved.

Sadly your right about 1 NFL calibre starter making a big difference. Also I agree that if we are in the top 7 or 8 picks that getting an elite player like Jones is something you really have to consider. Getting a truly elite player is one of the few things that trumps addressing needs to me. And assuming we don't trade up we really should be looking at getting 4 starters with our first 4 picks. If we are smart.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Hammerstripes

I guess it remains to be seen where we are drafting. If we are drafting higher up, then it won't cost as much to move up to get a guy like Jones.

Keep in mind, there will probably be 2 QBs taken 1 and 2 this year again.

We can always add depth through free agency. That's about the only thing that the Bengals use it for these days. We don't have to add EVERY depth position through the draft.

I still contend that we can get 3 players in the first 2 rounds that fill major needs. If we can add 1 decent NFL caliber starter in free agency, this team will be vastly improved.

It cost Cleveland a 4th, 5th, & 7th round pick to move up from the 4th overall to the 3rd overall.

It cost Jacksonville a 4th & 7th to move from the 7th to the 5th overall pick.

Jarvis Jones is a top 5 pick. I see the Bengals picking around 15th. If this is the case, it would cost us our 2nd rounder similar to the Cowboys trading from 14th to 6th overall swapping 1sts and giving their 2nd.

[Burma]

Originally Posted by mulligan

We always seem to disagree at the CB position.

CB1: Hall
CB2: Dre Kirk
NCB: Pacman/Allen

I could see the Bengals attempting to squeeze Allen to decrease his contract. I could see Pacman getting Allen's $4 million per year.

WTS, I am comfortable with these 4 CBs as the foundation for the CB corp. If the Bengals were to add another solid (not excellent) CB to this mix, this would be a very solid CB corp. I see the Bengals going with 5 CBs & 5 Safeties next year.

We do.

I tend to see Pacman knowing that he is at that age where he is looking at getting his last real contract. I think he goes where he gets starter money, which could be here if he gets Allen's money. (good idea). Allen is just an older career journeyman with 1 year left. He can't be in our long term plans. I guess we really just disagree on Pacman then.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Burma

We do.

I tend to see Pacman knowing that he is at that age where he is looking at getting his last real contract. I think he goes where he gets starter money, which could be here if he gets Allen's money. (good idea). Allen is just an older career journeyman with 1 year left. He can't be in our long term plans. I guess we really just disagree on Pacman then.

If the Bengals agree to pay Pacman $4 million per year for 3 years, I bet he takes it and stays on the Bengals. Starting NCB (practically the base formation now), and PR.

If the Bengals are able to squeeze Allen to taking less money (maybe $2.5 million?) in his last year, then I would be okay with Hall/Dre Kirk/Pacman/Allen as the top 4.

[Hammerstripes]

Originally Posted by mulligan

It cost Cleveland a 4th, 5th, & 7th round pick to move up from the 4th overall to the 3rd overall.

It cost Jacksonville a 4th & 7th to move from the 7th to the 5th overall pick.

Jarvis Jones is a top 5 pick. I see the Bengals picking around 15th. If this is the case, it would cost us our 2nd rounder similar to the Cowboys trading from 14th to 6th overall swapping 1sts and giving their 2nd.

I would make that trade in a heartbeat.

We'd still have a pick in every round.

[Jasonew6]

A kicker? Really?

And Vaccaro is a reach in 1. He is a late 2/early 3 right now.

Other than that, I like it.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Jasonew6

A kicker? Really?

And Vaccaro is a reach in 1. He is a late 2/early 3 right now.

Other than that, I like it.

Draft a DE in the 1st and a SS in the 2nd. In my opinion, a starting Strong Safety is our biggest need. I don't care how we fill it. We just need to fill it with a rookie that can succeed.

As for the Kicker, I want a kicker that can kick a 60 yarder and can ALWAYS get a touchback on a kickoff. Nugent can't do either of these. I don't know if this kicker can do those things, but I think we should draft one that can. We save about $2 million per year by not having Nugent as well.