Will "The Lawfirm" be a Bengal in 2013?

[Bengals Mike]

Originally Posted by BengalChris

I have to disagree. Being able to run the ball is key to turning a lead into a win and keeping your own defense off the field.

Most RB by committee situations ends up limiting your options on play calling. We've seen this with the Bengals where BJGE will run 80% of the time between the tackles, while Peerman is usually running outside. Having a complete back helps keep the defense honest. It's not the only thing that helps keep the defense honest.

I would buck the trend in the case of RBs. Having a complete RB didn't work for a 100 years for no reason at all.

except Green Ellis still gets most of the carries anyway which is part of the problem to begin with, Peerman is more of a special teams guy than anything and he's probably not going to amount to anything in the backfield, he does more for special teams than anything and seeing how poor the draft is next year where there isn't a back in sight in the 1st round, the team can pretty much sit there and wait for one in the 2nd round where they're expected to go

giving someone else all the carries doesnt work anymore because then you end up with the Rudi Johnson/Michael Turner syndrome where you peak after 4 years from overusage and it didnt exactly work for Benson depending how you look at it, he could rack up lots of short yardage for so long but he or any back getting so many carries wont break out huge runs from that and that's been the case on this team for a long time now, for people clamoring for changes on this team, this is one that should happen

[khamla]

Originally Posted by bfine32

Really not one worthy of a 1st round grade and we seem to have better luck with 2nd rounders anyway. Examples:

1st Round- Archie Griffin, KiJana Carter, Chris Perry
2nd Round- Pete Johnson, Corey Dillon, Rudi Johnson

I'm ok with taking a RB in the second round, but i'm not ok with it based on your theory.

I will take a first rounder over a second a later rounder any day of the week, regardless of history or theory.

[OchoCincos]

Originally Posted by BengalChris

I have to disagree. Being able to run the ball is key to turning a lead into a win and keeping your own defense off the field.

Most RB by committee situations ends up limiting your options on play calling. We've seen this with the Bengals where BJGE will run 80% of the time between the tackles, while Peerman is usually running outside. Having a complete back helps keep the defense honest. It's not the only thing that helps keep the defense honest.

I would buck the trend in the case of RBs. Having a complete RB didn't work for a 100 years for no reason at all.

We've also seen BJGE TRY to go outside, and it's almost laughable as to how slow he is while doing it. So it's not that the Bengals haven't tried running him outside, but it's more that they've seen he doesn't have the skill set for it. Like you said, we need a RB that can have that variability.

[BengaliJack]

I like Lawfirm...but I like him better in the slot. We get a hard groundpounder in the second round to free him up..he could be very effective. Bottom line the guy has talent.

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by khamla

I'm ok with taking a RB in the second round, but i'm not ok with it based on your theory.

I will take a first rounder over a second a later rounder any day of the week, regardless of history or theory.

I look at the ROI...a great RB lasts what 8 years? A great player at other positions can last 12-14 years.

The longevity just isn't there for a RB, therefore it's hard to justify using a 1st Round pick unless a great one is there.

[thompson19osu]

Originally Posted by Bengals Mike

except Green Ellis still gets most of the carries anyway which is part of the problem to begin with, Peerman is more of a special teams guy than anything and he's probably not going to amount to anything in the backfield, he does more for special teams than anything and seeing how poor the draft is next year where there isn't a back in sight in the 1st round, the team can pretty much sit there and wait for one in the 2nd round where they're expected to go

giving someone else all the carries doesnt work anymore because then you end up with the Rudi Johnson/Michael Turner syndrome where you peak after 4 years from overusage and it didnt exactly work for Benson depending how you look at it, he could rack up lots of short yardage for so long but he or any back getting so many carries wont break out huge runs from that and that's been the case on this team for a long time now, for people clamoring for changes on this team, this is one that should happen

I don't think it's really fair to just call him a special teams guy. He is really young and just hasn't been given much of a chance in the backfield. I pointed out in another thread that he is averaging 4.6 yards a carry (which does not include his special teams run). I would take that every day of the week over Green Ellis' 3.5 yards. I want to see more of what he can do before I list him as just as special teams player.

[Night's Watch]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

No feature back quality backs in the upcoming draft? I would certainly have to disagree with that comment.

Originally Posted by yellowxdiscipline

Wrong, I can name about 4 of them...

please list them, because with Lattimore knee's shredded, I have not seen single RB taken in any mock draft in the first round, and in one, the first RB taken is in the 3rd round. So yes please do explain who is worthy of a 1st round pick, because that is the talent that is a feature draft, not a roll of the dice that they will eventually be one. Remember we are talking next season, not 5 years down the line.

[khamla]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

I look at the ROI...a great RB lasts what 8 years? A great player at other positions can last 12-14 years.

The longevity just isn't there for a RB, therefore it's hard to justify using a 1st Round pick unless a great one is there.

I agree if a super great RB like Minnesota's Adrian Peterson is there take him in the first. I like the idea of getting a RB in the second anyways, but thats for personal reasons. But not because there's a so called curse in taking one in second because all 1st round bengals RB ****.

[Lawless_1]

Originally Posted by Night's Watch

please list them, because with Lattimore knee's shredded, I have not seen single RB taken in any mock draft in the first round, and in one, the first RB taken is in the 3rd round. So yes please do explain who is worthy of a 1st round pick, because that is the talent that is a feature draft, not a roll of the dice that they will eventually be one. Remember we are talking next season, not 5 years down the line.

There are no sure fire RB this year but i think there are a few that would be upgrades over BJGE (obviously not in the first round).

Giovani Bernard, Eddie Lacy, Andre Ellington, Montee Ball, Christine Michael, and Le'Veon Bell come to mind.

[D.Boon]

I hope not...the Firm is a poor man's Rudy Johnson. In other words, he's pretty useless. Honestly, there are probably FA Running backs available right now that could be more effective. I think given the workload/opportuntiy Peerman would be more productive. If I never saw BJGE suit up in stripes again I'd have no problem with that...not a fan.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by D.Boon

I hope not...the Firm is a poor man's Rudy Johnson. In other words, he's pretty useless. Honestly, there are probably FA Running backs available right now that could be more effective. I think given the workload/opportuntiy Peerman would be more productive. If I never saw BJGE suit up in stripes again I'd have no problem with that...not a fan.

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/10/2...-go-situations

On 14 runs when it is third or fourth and two yards or less, he's converted 11 times in getting the tough yards, and against Baltimore and Pittsburgh, he's got 25 yards on six carries and a touchdown.

[TheCincinnatiKid]

I hope so. He's taking a lot of flack and rightly so cause the running game hasnt been good.

But I'll go back to what I thought when we got him; as long as we picked up someone in the draft or through FA, I thought he'd be great as part of a committee. It hasn't been a committee, we've expected him to hold the running game by himself. I think with an addition in the backfield, BJGE can a good piece for our offence.

[Bengals Mike]

Originally Posted by thompson19osu

I don't think it's really fair to just call him a special teams guy. He is really young and just hasn't been given much of a chance in the backfield. I pointed out in another thread that he is averaging 4.6 yards a carry (which does not include his special teams run). I would take that every day of the week over Green Ellis' 3.5 yards. I want to see more of what he can do before I list him as just as special teams player.

Well it is fair when it's been just about the only thing he's done for 3 years?

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by Night's Watch

please list them, because with Lattimore knee's shredded, I have not seen single RB taken in any mock draft in the first round, and in one, the first RB taken is in the 3rd round. So yes please do explain who is worthy of a 1st round pick, because that is the talent that is a feature draft, not a roll of the dice that they will eventually be one. Remember we are talking next season, not 5 years down the line.

Sure will list some as it is an easy task. Some of my personal favorites....by the way Lattimore did not make my list before the last knee injury:

1) Giovanni Bernard
2) Mike Gilleslee
3) Joseph Randle
4) Zac Stacey
5) Benny Cunningham

These are the guys I like but you have the kid from Stanford and UCLA just as a couple more and this is without thinking about it.

So please let's hear how these guys are not feature backs. Trying to think of the last draft that had zero feature back guys in it. The above are just the more obvious guys. This is not even accounting for the Arian Foster that goes drafted or the Jonathan Grimes small school backs.

Oh yeah as well you have the ex-Auburn kid Dwyer I believe is his name. It is loaded with talent at RB.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by Lawless_1

There are no sure fire RB this year but i think there are a few that would be upgrades over BJGE (obviously not in the first round).

Giovani Bernard, Eddie Lacy, Andre Ellington, Montee Ball, Christine Michael, and Le'Veon Bell come to mind.

Man. Looking at that list, Lamar Miller might be as good as any of those and we could've had him where we got Thompson this year. I still think we should grab the best one with one of our 2nd round picks. On top of that, I would think about spending a late round pick on Lattimore. Maybe he can come back like McGahee in 2014.

[Jay62107]

Originally Posted by BengalRugby

I see him filling Leonard's role next season, unless he continues running soft. Basically they both have the same skill set, so it makes sense if they see him as the better back.


That said, they need to look into a better option as the starter.

I would want Leonard over BJGE because Leonard is more flexible where you can play him he also has more of a burst and his hands are a lot better than BJGE's and he might also have the longest run for the team this year on limited carries but that really isn't saying much with how bad our run game has been other than the Baltimore game and the first drive of the steelers game.

[Tony33]

Originally Posted by Jay62107

I would want Leonard over BJGE because Leonard is more flexible where you can play him he also has more of a burst and his hands are a lot better than BJGE's and he might also have the longest run for the team this year on limited carries but that really isn't saying much with how bad our run game has been other than the Baltimore game and the first drive of the steelers game.

The Law Firm will be a Bengal next year, however they will draft a RB to compliment him.

[D.Boon]

Originally Posted by mulligan

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/10/2...-go-situations

On 14 runs when it is third or fourth and two yards or less, he's converted 11 times in getting the tough yards, and against Baltimore and Pittsburgh, he's got 25 yards on six carries and a touchdown.

meh. not impressed. I know mediocrity when I see it and BJGE is a sub par NFL RB. I also think you have to give the O-Line a lot of credit for short yardage efficiency. So, I guess your assumption is that Peerman would not have picked up those 1 or 2 yards necessary. I would say in that most cases he would. Granted, BJGE is likely a better short yardage back than Peerman but at this point I would like to see what Peerman can do in pretty much any other situation.

[D.Boon]

Originally Posted by Jay62107

I would want Leonard over BJGE because Leonard is more flexible where you can play him he also has more of a burst and his hands are a lot better than BJGE's and he might also have the longest run for the team this year on limited carries but that really isn't saying much with how bad our run game has been other than the Baltimore game and the first drive of the steelers game.

I like Leonard where he is. he is a role player and overall pretty good at what he does as.

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

Man. Looking at that list, Lamar Miller might be as good as any of those and we could've had him where we got Thompson this year. I still think we should grab the best one with one of our 2nd round picks. On top of that, I would think about spending a late round pick on Lattimore. Maybe he can come back like McGahee in 2014.

I think the reason Miller is not in stripes is because he cannot block. Bengals need an every down back that can pick up the pass rushers. Although I'm no BJGE fan, he is not afraid to pick up his man.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by D.Boon

meh. not impressed. I know mediocrity when I see it and BJGE is a sub par NFL RB. I also think you have to give the O-Line a lot of credit for short yardage efficiency. So, I guess your assumption is that Peerman would not have picked up those 1 or 2 yards necessary. I would say in that most cases he would. Granted, BJGE is likely a better short yardage back than Peerman but at this point I would like to see what Peerman can do in pretty much any other situation.

The fact that you aren't impressed with 11 of 14 3rd/4th & short conversion says volumes.

BJGE is not mediocre on 3rd/4th and short, and this is one reason why he will be a Bengal in 2013.

Tell me another current NFL running back that has a higher conversion rate on 3rd & short.

Peerman can't pass protect. BJGE can.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by mulligan

BJGE is not mediocre on 3rd/4th and short, and this is one reason why he will be a Bengal in 2013.

Tell me another current NFL running back that has a higher conversion rate on 3rd & short.

Peerman can't pass protect. BJGE can.

You can teach blitz pickup and pass blocking. You can't teach 4.40 speed. Besides, it's not as if Miller had to be our every down back. We just need someone that can come in every now and then and run to the outside.

[Night's Watch]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Sure will list some as it is an easy task. Some of my personal favorites....by the way Lattimore did not make my list before the last knee injury:

1) Giovanni Bernard
2) Mike Gilleslee
3) Joseph Randle
4) Zac Stacey
5) Benny Cunningham

These are the guys I like but you have the kid from Stanford and UCLA just as a couple more and this is without thinking about it.

So please let's hear how these guys are not feature backs. Trying to think of the last draft that had zero feature back guys in it. The above are just the more obvious guys. This is not even accounting for the Arian Foster that goes drafted or the Jonathan Grimes small school backs.

Oh yeah as well you have the ex-Auburn kid Dwyer I believe is his name. It is loaded with talent at RB.

I guess our definitions of a featured back are off. For me I am thinking of guys that are 25-30 carries a game every week, expected over a 100 yds. Examples would have been Richardson (top 5 draft concensus), AP (Top 10 draft consensus), McFadden (top 10 draft concensus),

Not guys that will be spitting carries their first year and eventually take over as the featured back. You list guys like Arian Foster, that is an exception, not a norm. You are going to base all your draft decisions on hoping for Arian Foster's, you will fail.

McShays Top 32 Big Board (doesn't factor in team need, just talent) - No RBs listed
Kipers Big Board - No RBs listed

My point was there is nobody coming out this year that is a can't miss RB, not saying there will not be any fantastic quality RBs.

[D.Boon]

Originally Posted by mulligan

The fact that you aren't impressed with 11 of 14 3rd/4th & short conversion says volumes.

BJGE is not mediocre on 3rd/4th and short, and this is one reason why he will be a Bengal in 2013.

Tell me another current NFL running back that has a higher conversion rate on 3rd & short.

Peerman can't pass protect. BJGE can.

Tell me another NFL RB with at least 150 carries that has a lower YPC than Green- Ellis?

I'll concede that Ellis has been effective in the short yard situations (although I give a TON of credit to the O-line there).

Will you then concede that on over 90% of his carries (those not in short yardage) that he has been ineffective?

*edit* also worth pointing out that amont NFL rushers with over 150 carries, BJGE also ranks last in runs over 20 yards (1). His longest run of the year was exactly 20 yards.

[Tony33]

Originally Posted by Night's Watch

I guess our definitions of a featured back are off. For me I am thinking of guys that are 25-30 carries a game every week, expected over a 100 yds. Examples would have been Richardson (top 5 draft concensus), AP (Top 10 draft consensus), McFadden (top 10 draft concensus),

Not guys that will be spitting carries their first year and eventually take over as the featured back. You list guys like Arian Foster, that is an exception, not a norm. You are going to base all your draft decisions on hoping for Arian Foster's, you will fail.

McShays Top 32 Big Board (doesn't factor in team need, just talent) - No RBs listed
Kipers Big Board - No RBs listed

My point was there is nobody coming out this year that is a can't miss RB, not saying there will not be any fantastic quality RBs.

Actually Foster was outstanding in college, his reputation is what hinderd his drafting in the NFL, like Burfict. So Foster is not an exception, however a Ray Rice maybe.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by Night's Watch

I guess our definitions of a featured back are off. For me I am thinking of guys that are 25-30 carries a game every week, expected over a 100 yds. Examples would have been Richardson (top 5 draft concensus), AP (Top 10 draft consensus), McFadden (top 10 draft concensus),

Not guys that will be spitting carries their first year and eventually take over as the featured back. You list guys like Arian Foster, that is an exception, not a norm. You are going to base all your draft decisions on hoping for Arian Foster's, you will fail.

McShays Top 32 Big Board (doesn't factor in team need, just talent) - No RBs listed
Kipers Big Board - No RBs listed

My point was there is nobody coming out this year that is a can't miss RB, not saying there will not be any fantastic quality RBs.

There is no such thing as a can't miss prospect period. I do not really care what McCray has a big board. I do not need someone else to give me my opinion. So was Foster on his big board?

Every guy I listed is capable of 25 carries a game at the next level. There is no reason any of those I listed would be looked at to split carries unless they went to a team that already had an established running game or established #1 guy.

There is probably not an easier position for a player to make the next level transition than running back. You will and no credence to the list given to you because it does not support your view.

So give me some reasoning why these guys are not 25 carry guys or did McCray not state his opinion on this subject.