Carson Palmer.........Wasted Victories

[hailroad]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Carson Palmer is Fredo. He is a quitter that walked out on his team members. I do not want to hear the moral high ground of standing up to Mike Brown because it is a load of crap. He made a commitment then walked out on it. Simple as that.

However, really glad he did because we now have a real QB that understands what it takes to lead a team.

Glad you were sitting in on all of those meetings between Palmer and Brown. Give us more complex insight into the situation.

As far as Dalton having what it takes, I seem to recall our buffoon of a head coach calling he and our MLB out a few weeks ago for not taking charge. Either way, Dalton is an okay QB, not great. Those who claim all this team needs to do is surround him with great players are merely stating what Mike Brown WON'T do. How is BJGE working out? Armon Binns?

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

The thread is not about the Bengals looking past the Chiefs he was asking if the fans are looking forward to it. I am sure the team is well aware of where their focus is.

Carson Palmer is Fredo. He is a quitter that walked out on his team members. I do not want to hear the moral high ground of standing up to Mike Brown because it is a load of crap. He made a commitment then walked out on it. Simple as that.

However, really glad he did because we now have a real QB that understands what it takes to lead a team.

...but he didn't quit. MB traded him to the Raiders after a lengthy hold out. Boy, seeing things in black and white is so much easier.

That "real" QB has no playoff wins and is currently with a losing record, so Dalton has proven himself to be no better than Palmer in this regard. If he's still got that same fire and intensity AFTER his rookie deal, then I'll start to believe Palmer was the reason for the lack of emotion on this team.

[Tony33]

Originally Posted by hailroad

Glad you were sitting in on all of those meetings between Palmer and Brown. Give us more complex insight into the situation.

As far as Dalton having what it takes, I seem to recall our buffoon of a head coach calling he and our MLB out a few weeks ago for not taking charge. Either way, Dalton is an okay QB, not great. Those who claim all this team needs to do is surround him with great players are merely stating what Mike Brown WON'T do. How is BJGE working out? Armon Binns?

The buffon head coach was trying to motivate. They have great players around him, the only thing missing is a great Running Back, the law firm was a horrible choice.

[Helldog]

Lol @ you guys that argue about the Carson ordeal over and over and over. Mildly entertaining at this point. It's quite obvious most of you are never going to change your mind about which side you're on yet you think the other side will jump ship and believe everything you say



Who gives a **** why he left? He's gone. Bye.



Carry on.

[Tony33]

Pickens, Dillon, Palmer, at some point you have to see the picture.

[hailroad]

Originally Posted by Tony33

The buffon head coach was trying to motivate. They have great players around him, the only thing missing is a great Running Back, the law firm was a horrible choice.

Our buffoon head coach has an overall career losing record. Since 2003 he has consistently shown he can't manage games, get his team motivated and prepared on a consistent basis, etc.

Marvin should have been shown the door in 2010, possibly even 2008. But hey, we are fans of the team with the worst owner in sports. We shouldn't expect much else.

[hailroad]

Originally Posted by shaolinghost

...That "real" QB has no playoff wins and is currently with a losing record, so Dalton has proven himself to be no better than Palmer in this regard. If he's still got that same fire and intensity AFTER his rookie deal, then I'll start to believe Palmer was the reason for the lack of emotion on this team.

Stop stating facts.

[Wyche'sWarrior]

Originally Posted by McC

Actually, it makes a lot of sense because it is absolutely true. He could have waited a lifetime and never found a worse time to leave his teammates high and dry and without a QB. Yeah, he did it to Mike, but he did it to Andrew and Geno and everyone else on the team and you and me and every other fan.

I just don't understand how anyone could so vehemently stand up for the take my ball and go home mentality. To not understand why that ****** people off is to just be clueless.


To me, if you're a Bengal. I'm a fan. If you leave, I'm dome with you. And if you leave by leaving your teammates up **** creek, then you can go straight to hell. This is not just CP, this is any Bengal who leaves. Fanene, eat ****. Rucker, blow me. CP, your day is coming soon.

Another thing to think about--he went from the Bengals to the Bengals. Yeah, maybe they get soda and deodorant out there, but they also have no clue how to run a football team. At best, he made a lateral move.

To get all up in arms or indignant if Bengal fans don't like him or even hate him, that's so patently naive or just plain argumentative, I can't even imagine you typing the words with a straight face.

He had a brief shining moment here on the heels of a string of sorry predecessors. It all ended with the knee injury. Because of it, he never became what we thought or hoped he would, which was world class good for long time.

He came across as a good guy(I'm not saying he isn't, but I'm far from convinced he is) and that bought him a lot more slack than the level of his play the last couple years, imo.

The mistakes he made in year 1 were the same mistakes he made in his last year here, so even becoming a wily veteran didn't wise him up. CP and Marvin share a whole lot in this regard.

Don't even pretend he didn't go straight down the pipes. It's a results driven business, all about winning in the playoffs. Just thinking about his playoff game performance against the Jets still makes me sick to my stomach whenever I think about it.

All in all, I think it's kind of a sad tale. He was The Golden Buy who fell to Earth. That's about as sad as it gets in sports. Yeah, he's richer than God, but I can't imagine his career turned out like he thought it would and that's got to take a piece out of the good feeling you get by being rich.

I agree with a lot here, except for what I highlighted.....that's just a plain ol' misrepresentation of the facts. The Palmer saga started DURING the 2010 season, NOT during the lockout....so I don't understand this whole "timing" issue.

Secondly, you must hate A LOT of players and former players in the NFL if you hate every single ex, disgruntled Bengal! LOL! At some point, you have to point the finger of blame where it truly lies.......Mike Clown. You bring up a very interesting point about a lateral move. It's pretty sad when someone would rather play for the Raiders.....and is negotiating a pay cut to stay when he wouldn't stay here. To me, that speaks louder than anything.......how bad can this front office be? Twenty years is the measuring stick on that.

[hailroad]

Originally Posted by Tony33

Pickens, Dillon, Palmer, at some point you have to see the picture.

Very true. At some point, people need to stop burying their heads in the sand and see the organization for what it is. There have been numerous players who have "quit" this organizations after it's idiotic way of conducting itself. They were good players who have seen it from the inside and actually know how poorly run the whole thing is.

[Wyche'sWarrior]

Originally Posted by Tony33

The buffon head coach was trying to motivate. They have great players around him, the only thing missing is a great Running Back, the law firm was a horrible choice.

And just how many of these terrible choices do we let our "management" get a pass on? So far, we've been doing it for twenty one seasons! It started when we fired Sam Wyche. I watched an episode of the top 10 innovations in NFL history.....lo and behold, there was our ex coach....the one dumbbutt fired. Had he not done that, and let Sam do the drafting, this whole abyss thing would have never happened. Sure we would have had some rough seasons here and there.....but we wouldn't have been set backwards 15 years like we were. NO ONE will ever convince me that any of this crap we get on here and argue about hasn't been caused by one man.................

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by hailroad

Glad you were sitting in on all of those meetings between Palmer and Brown. Give us more complex insight into the situation.

As far as Dalton having what it takes, I seem to recall our buffoon of a head coach calling he and our MLB out a few weeks ago for not taking charge. Either way, Dalton is an okay QB, not great. Those who claim all this team needs to do is surround him with great players are merely stating what Mike Brown WON'T do. How is BJGE working out? Armon Binns?

Never said I sat in a meeting and never implied I sat in a meeting so take the spin doctor crap elsewhere. Stated what is fact. He signed a contract then walked out on it. Period end of story pure fact.

Lewis did not call out Dalton and Rey and anyone who watched the press conference would know that. Any statement taken out of context can be made to sound most anyway you wish it to sound. His demeanor during that portion of the press conference was in no way a calling out so do not buy the media hype.

How is AJ, Hawkins, and Sanu working out? Binns has been dealing with an injury since the hit that doubled him over from behind. Not too mention we have yet to have Jones healthy. Orson Charles improves every time he is on the field. So the not surrounding him with talent argument does not really hold up now does.

Lame attempt to bash Mike Brown.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by hailroad

Very true. At some point, people need to stop burying their heads in the sand and see the organization for what it is. There have been numerous players who have "quit" this organizations after it's idiotic way of conducting itself. They were good players who have seen it from the inside and actually know how poorly run the whole thing is.

Three players and each I believe was part of a 53 man roster. Hmmm......the odds are not in your favor. Let me guess they were the only ones man enough to make a stand. Not to mention Pickens was a turd and the fact that Dillon was the only one of them that had a resemblance to a career after leaving.

[McC]

Originally Posted by Wyche'sWarrior

I agree with a lot here, except for what I highlighted.....that's just a plain ol' misrepresentation of the facts. The Palmer saga started DURING the 2010 season, NOT during the lockout....so I don't understand this whole "timing" issue.

Secondly, you must hate A LOT of players and former players in the NFL if you hate every single ex, disgruntled Bengal! LOL! At some point, you have to point the finger of blame where it truly lies.......Mike Clown. You bring up a very interesting point about a lateral move. It's pretty sad when someone would rather play for the Raiders.....and is negotiating a pay cut to stay when he wouldn't stay here. To me, that speaks louder than anything.......how bad can this front office be? Twenty years is the measuring stick on that.

The timing--lockout, ring a bell? Hey, man, you're just arguing to argue. Argue with yourself cuz I said what I said and it couldn't have been much clearer and now I'm done with it. You wanna be a this player or that player fan, be my guest. Pardon me if I just go on being a Bengal fan and considering anyone not a Bengal the enemy.

[BobJones4980]

Originally Posted by hailroad

Stop stating facts.

Dalton is 13-12 regular season, 13-13 counting playoffs so how is it a fact that Dalton has a losing record? Not to mention that one playoff loss was in his rookie season and were only half way through his second.

Also im getting pretty sick of all these Palmer fan boys using the "OH WERE YOU SITTING IN ON MEETINGS" excuse, I mean you guys are making just as many assumptions as the people claiming he left because he got his feelings hurt. You think he is some hero because you think he stood up to Mike Brown and tried to make changes to the organization( just check out those stupid sigs, Palmer Revolution, what a joke) yet there is no proof of that either.

Honestly I guess its just me because I have never understood being a huge fan of a player who never won a playoff game, was mediocre after his first few years and then quit on the team, but hey have fun following Carson around, me ill just enjoy the draft picks we got off this scrub and move forward cheering for the Bengals.

...but he didn't quit. MB traded him to the Raiders after a lengthy hold out. Boy, seeing things in black and white is so much easier.

That "real" QB has no playoff wins and is currently with a losing record, so Dalton has proven himself to be no better than Palmer in this regard. If he's still got that same fire and intensity AFTER his rookie deal, then I'll start to believe Palmer was the reason for the lack of emotion on this team.

Is this a joke man? Im hoping your forgot the sarcasm tag or something because if you are really so delusional you don't think he quit on this team your an idiot, He said trade me or ill retire correct? So how is that not quitting ?

[nevergonnachange]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Three players and each I believe was part of a 53 man roster. Hmmm......the odds are not in your favor. Let me guess they were the only ones man enough to make a stand. Not to mention Pickens was a turd and the fact that Dillon was the only one of them that had a resemblance to a career after leaving.

How does Carl Pickens personality factor into if his criticism of the Bengals had merit? Look at the Bengals record during Pickens time here (if my math is correct, it was 40-88) and tell me he didn't have a point. The same goes for Dillon.

I know this breaks your Mike Brown loving heart but if a player would walk away from potentially making $50,000,000 rather than play for a franchise, that franchise has problems. If it were any other team in any other sport, you'd agree with me.

[hailroad]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Never said I sat in a meeting and never implied I sat in a meeting so take the spin doctor crap elsewhere. Stated what is fact. He signed a contract then walked out on it. Period end of story pure fact.

Lewis did not call out Dalton and Rey and anyone who watched the press conference would know that. Any statement taken out of context can be made to sound most anyway you wish it to sound. His demeanor during that portion of the press conference was in no way a calling out so do not buy the media hype.

How is AJ, Hawkins, and Sanu working out? Binns has been dealing with an injury since the hit that doubled him over from behind. Not too mention we have yet to have Jones healthy. Orson Charles improves every time he is on the field. So the not surrounding him with talent argument does not really hold up now does.

Lame attempt to bash Mike Brown.

No, you just act like it is a simple case of "I quit", or Carson just walked in and said, "I quit". Ever thought for one second why? Of course you didn't.

And yes, read the official transcript instead of putting your "spin" on it. He was calling them out:

Those QBs are obviously very confident in the outcome of the play. Where is Andy Dalton’s confidence this year?
ML: “We're looking for our quarterback and our middle linebacker to take hold of our football team, and I think that's important for us. I think both guys are such good people, that you've got to be a little bit of a (jerk). You do. That's what these guys we're talking about have. That's part of it.

“Andy has a great deal of confidence, self-confidence, internal confidence, confidence in the guys around him. But at some point you step out of your skin and you go. And it's time to go. It's time to step out of our skin, both places, all throughout. We've wallowed around here in mediocrity. Let's go. That's the thing we've got to do. These guys that have it, they've got it and they've done it. And everybody around them, there's got to be a confidence level, too, of anticipation and then clicking on those things.”

Has he shown any sign of doing it?
ML: “We have to really look in the mirror and move forward. That's big for us.”

So if I write that Marvin Lewis says Andy Dalton needs to be more of a (jerk):
ML: “OK (laughs), let's clean it up. We're looking for Andy to take the next step of being the leader of this football team. Confident, vocal if it needs to be, but grab this football team by the back of its neck and let's go. Let's move forward.”

Have you guys talked about that?
ML: “The offensive coaches, yes, have been visiting with him about it all the time. Over this period of time, having looked back at where we are and where we want to go.”

“The two days that New Orleans was here (practicing in Cincinnati in August due to weather problems in New Orleans), I couldn't wait to go out just to watch Drew (Brees). From when he was here before, and to watch Drew now. You know, Drew post-Super Bowl compared to Drew pre-Super Bowl, and how Drew does things.

“And I got to visiting with him on the sidelines, while the defense was working, about that. There's a lot we took from that and shared that with Andy. We've just got to keep pressing that. When you have a good player, you can keep pressing the envelope. We did that with Ray Lewis. Don't go to the Pro Bowl and have a good time, or the Super Bowl and have a good time. You go and you **** the knowledge out of everybody there. When your good, young players have the opportunity to learn from that and be a part of that, then you've got to take advantage of that. And then it spreads throughout the football team. Terence Newman is a guy on defense like that. He's got a lot to offer. Be comfortable with us now, and let's go.”



AJ has done great, but Sanu hasn't gotten on the field until recently and Hawkins has a knack for dissappearing. Either way, Binns was the talk of the offseason and training camp. He didn't exactly light it up when he was playing.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

The thread is not about the Bengals looking past the Chiefs he was asking if the fans are looking forward to it. I am sure the team is well aware of where their focus is.

Carson Palmer is Fredo. He is a quitter that walked out on his team members. I do not want to hear the moral high ground of standing up to Mike Brown because it is a load of crap. He made a commitment then walked out on it. Simple as that.

However, really glad he did because we now have a real QB that understands what it takes to lead a team.

Lulz....Now we just need an owner that has a clue of how to run a team and we'll be all set.

[WeezyBengal]

Originally Posted by whodey1302

The "hate" exists for his refusal to live up to the contract that he agreed to play for.

Kind of like how a team can cut a player at anytime during the season for any reason even though they signed that said "contract"?

There is no guaranteed money in the NFL.

[hailroad]

Originally Posted by BobJones4980

Dalton is 13-12 regular season, 13-13 counting playoffs so how is it a fact that Dalton has a losing record? Not to mention that one playoff loss was in his rookie season and were only half way through his second.

Also im getting pretty sick of all these Palmer fan boys using the "OH WERE YOU SITTING IN ON MEETINGS" excuse, I mean you guys are making just as many assumptions as the people claiming he left because he got his feelings hurt. You think he is some hero because you think he stood up to Mike Brown and tried to make changes to the organization( just check out those stupid sigs, Palmer Revolution, what a joke) yet there is no proof of that either.

Honestly I guess its just me because I have never understood being a huge fan of a player who never won a playoff game, was mediocre after his first few years and then quit on the team, but hey have fun following Carson around, me ill just enjoy the draft picks we got off this scrub and move forward cheering for the Bengals.

Key word was "currently" (i.e., this season). I am no Carson fanboy, and try to view the guy objectively. But I will say this - why did your franchise QB, who always toed the company line, worked his *** off to get back from two major injuries to play, and play through countless others, decide to walk away from the remainder of a lucrative contract and vow to never play for this organization again? What made that thing go **** up so fast? You have other players (Boomer, Collinsworth, Willie Anderson, Dillon, TJ, Chad, Pickens, Joseph, etc.) talk about how poorly this organization is run. Not to mention we have 0 playoff wins (and the number of winning seasons can be counted on one hand) since a certain owner took over the team from his father.

[WeezyBengal]

I bet 99% of you Palmer haters are also the people that hate the organization and the front office. It just doesnt make sence. If you hate Mike Brown and the organization how can you hate Palmer for what he did?

Palmer left the organization because it *****. We know it, he knows it, everyone knows it. I think what he did was great. It embarrassed the organization nationally. How bad must your place of employment be if you walk away from 50 million dollars?

[BobJones4980]

Originally Posted by WeezyBengal

I bet 99% of you Palmer haters are also the people that hate the organization and the front office. It just doesnt make sence. If you hate Mike Brown and the organization how can you hate Palmer for what he did?

Palmer left the organization because it *****. We know it, he knows it, everyone knows it. I think what he did was great. It embarrassed the organization nationally. How bad must your place of employment be if you walk away from 50 million dollars?

Because its our ****ty team, just because it hasn't been a great organization that doesn't mean we want bad things to happen to the team, If someone takes a **** in the drivers seat of your beat up car do you just think oh well it was in bad shape anyway so I cant blame the guy? No your ****** as hell that someone messed with your beat up car. Same thing with this team, if you walk away from the team like Palmer then im not a fan and no matter how bad the organization is run I dont want bad things to happen, some of the people in this thread hoping for the Bengals to get beat down by Palmer and stuff like that is just ridiculous.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by WeezyBengal

Kind of like how a team can cut a player at anytime during the season for any reason even though they signed that said "contract"?

There is no guaranteed money in the NFL.

There are reasons stated within the collective bargaining agreement on why a team can cut a player. These were made in agreement with the players. Thereby actually making it a part of the contract that they freely enter into. So this is one of the weakest argument points that is continually made.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by hailroad

No, you just act like it is a simple case of "I quit", or Carson just walked in and said, "I quit". Ever thought for one second why? Of course you didn't.

And yes, read the official transcript instead of putting your "spin" on it. He was calling them out:

Those QBs are obviously very confident in the outcome of the play. Where is Andy Dalton’s confidence this year?
ML: “We're looking for our quarterback and our middle linebacker to take hold of our football team, and I think that's important for us. I think both guys are such good people, that you've got to be a little bit of a (jerk). You do. That's what these guys we're talking about have. That's part of it.

“Andy has a great deal of confidence, self-confidence, internal confidence, confidence in the guys around him. But at some point you step out of your skin and you go. And it's time to go. It's time to step out of our skin, both places, all throughout. We've wallowed around here in mediocrity. Let's go. That's the thing we've got to do. These guys that have it, they've got it and they've done it. And everybody around them, there's got to be a confidence level, too, of anticipation and then clicking on those things.”

Has he shown any sign of doing it?
ML: “We have to really look in the mirror and move forward. That's big for us.”

So if I write that Marvin Lewis says Andy Dalton needs to be more of a (jerk):
ML: “OK (laughs), let's clean it up. We're looking for Andy to take the next step of being the leader of this football team. Confident, vocal if it needs to be, but grab this football team by the back of its neck and let's go. Let's move forward.”

Have you guys talked about that?
ML: “The offensive coaches, yes, have been visiting with him about it all the time. Over this period of time, having looked back at where we are and where we want to go.”

“The two days that New Orleans was here (practicing in Cincinnati in August due to weather problems in New Orleans), I couldn't wait to go out just to watch Drew (Brees). From when he was here before, and to watch Drew now. You know, Drew post-Super Bowl compared to Drew pre-Super Bowl, and how Drew does things.

“And I got to visiting with him on the sidelines, while the defense was working, about that. There's a lot we took from that and shared that with Andy. We've just got to keep pressing that. When you have a good player, you can keep pressing the envelope. We did that with Ray Lewis. Don't go to the Pro Bowl and have a good time, or the Super Bowl and have a good time. You go and you **** the knowledge out of everybody there. When your good, young players have the opportunity to learn from that and be a part of that, then you've got to take advantage of that. And then it spreads throughout the football team. Terence Newman is a guy on defense like that. He's got a lot to offer. Be comfortable with us now, and let's go.”



AJ has done great, but Sanu hasn't gotten on the field until recently and Hawkins has a knack for dissappearing. Either way, Binns was the talk of the offseason and training camp. He didn't exactly light it up when he was playing.

Thanking you for making my case. You read the transcript. Right before where you can read the transcript is the video of each press conference. Try that option.

[nevergonnachange]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

There are reasons stated within the collective bargaining agreement on why a team can cut a player. These were made in agreement with the players. Thereby actually making it a part of the contract that they freely enter into. So this is one of the weakest argument points that is continually made.

No it's not. The point is that just as the Bengals can terminate a contract under certain conditions, Palmer had an 'out' in his contract as long as he was willing to stop playing professional football. But the same people who have no problem with the Bengals terminating Joe Blow's contract are livid when it's done to them.

[hailroad]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Thanking you for making my case. You read the transcript. Right before where you can read the transcript is the video of each press conference. Try that option.

What? You really are delusional. I watched the video and I read the transcript. It's so clear he's calling them out he reprimanded himself a few days later because he realized he did it. You are like arguing with a wall with "stupid" written on it. Wow.