Cincinnati Bengals

Go Back   Cincinnati Bengals Message Boards - Forums > Cincinnati Bengals Football Discussion > The NFL Draft > Mock Drafts

Mock Drafts Post your mock here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-15-2012, 06:56 PM
berserkerone88's Avatar
berserkerone88 berserkerone88 is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Did you get that thing I sencha?
Posts: 20,302
Rep Points: 25175
Default Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

According to this ESPN article, we will have ~42 million for 2013
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/pos...-for-afc-north

Cuts:
BenJarvus Green-Ellis
Armon Binns
Taylor Mays

Roughly adds 3 million to the cap.

Extensions:
Geno Atkins - 5 years, $60 million, $27 million signing bonus.
For 2013:
Base - 6.6 million
Bonus - 5.4 million
Cap hit - 12 million
How I came up with the numbers:
Haloti Ngata, who I believe is one of the best defensive players in the NFL, signed a 5 year $61 million contract. While Geno may be the best interior DL in the NFL, they don't make as much as pass rushers and this deal would still be a top paid contract for an interior DL.
To determine the signing bonus, I used the contract of another top interior lineman in Vince Wilfork. He got 45% of his deal in guaranteed money. Ngata only got 40% in guarantees.
The 6.6 base is assuming he agrees to even dispersion over a front-loaded or back-loaded deal, thus saving money for the likes of AJ and Andy down the road. Gives him a bigger chunk up front. (Still gives him one of the highest total for an interior defensive lineman) I also ignored rookie contracts from before the wage scale took place.
http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/...ensive-tackle/


After that, it leaves us with $33 million left in free agency and draft.

Free Agents:
Disperse the rest along here:
Rey Maualuga
Andre Smith signs a 4 year back-loaded deal for 27 million total
Michael Johnson signs a 3 year deal worth 15 million total
Adam Jones
Justin Durant
Ernie Sims
Mike Nugent
Kevin Huber
Clark Harris
Brian Leonard
Cedric Peerman (RFA)
Andrew Hawkins (RFA)

Draft:
I used CBS rankings and personal judgement as well.

Round 1: Bjoern Werner | DE | FSU

When you look at our upcoming free agents, we have all but one DE on the market. So even if we re-sign the best of that lot in Johnson, we still have a big need because Dunlap isn't dependable enough to qualify as a starting DE. Werner isn't an elite athlete, but he is a tenacious pass rusher who is strong and shows ability to close on the QB. He has enough burst to win off the line but also has shown some good use of his hands to keep the opposing OL off of him. With Werner it allows us to finally stop using Johnson 90% of the snaps. I would have Werner move to the RDE and Johnson to LDE and hopefully give Johnson better match-ups and the more explosive Werner a shot vs the LT. When our front 7 play to their potential we are a very good team. I know there are those who think we shouldn't take a guy who is a rotational guy with the first, well Werner would only be rotational as a rookie. We can't keep building our defenses out of mix and match "situation" guys and expect to have continued success. When you do that you get caught with your pants down at times and look awful.

Where we will likely pick leaves us out of the running for a guy like Jarvis Jones or one of the big nose tackles. This draft is really deep but lacks top talent IMO. Werner is a guy who could go top 5, top 10 or top 15. It all depends on who you ask and what week it is because this draft class has virtually no separation from top to bottom of the first round.

Round 2: CJ Mosley | LB | Alabama

CJ Mosley in the 2nd? Yes. Last year I thought Courtney Upshaw was a better prospect from Alabama than Mosley is now. Upshaw went in the 2nd. Mosley likely wont light up the stopwatch at the combine, he will get the stigma of being an Alabama LB who had that crazy good DL in front of him. Which is a fair critique, however, the Bengals are slowly establishing their own incredible DL. Geno is the best 4-3 DT right now. Still is showing he can really disrupt the OL too. Peko, Sims and Thompson need to really step up. If one of them can be a true blue NT to consistently demand a double team, our DL has the talent to win one on one everywhere else. Mosley would step in right away at SLB for us. We would have to make a decison about Rey, Burfict and Howard. If Rey plays the rest of 2012 like he did vs NYG, does he deserve a new deal? Does Burfict stay outside and we look for a new MLB? Or does Burfict go inside and we re-sign Howard? Mosley gives us on solution at LB and makes the defense that much better.

Round 2: Eddie Lacy | RB | Alabama

Lacy is a big back who has some moves. He has a great OL in front of him but still shows good vision and ability to create. This is the difference between Ball and Lacy. Ball is a fine RB prospect in his own right but he doesn't always create his own lanes and he doesn't have much in the way of moves in making people miss. Lacy is owner of one of, if not the best spin moves in the nation. He rarely goes down on contact and fights for yards. He can hit a corner and turn up field. Needs to improve as a blocker long run, but for a college kid, he can do it.

Round 3: Bacarri Rambo | FS | UGA

Rambo is a personal favorite who I can see anywhere from the 2nd to the 3rd. He is a true center-field safety in my eyes. You draft Rambo, you let him play FS and roam the secondary. Give Rambo a year to sit and adjust to the speed of the NFL. We need a ball hawk. We are pitiful at generating our own turn overs and a true ball hawk would be a huge boost to the defensive backfield.

Round 4: Shayne Skov | LB | Stanford

Skov has really taken a fall since his injury. He still has plenty of potential as a player but wont have the tape as a senior to really boost his stock. Here in the 4th he will be a steal and give us plenty of depth at LB and a guy who could become a starter in a year or two depending on what we do at MLB and WLB.

Round 5: Michael Buchannon | DE | Illinois

Buchannon is more depth and skill needed along the DL. I don't see the reason behind bringing Geathers or Gilberry back when you could look for more upside in the draft. This also makes a lot of sense financially too with the looming contract of Geno Atkins ahead. Let guys like Geathers and Gilberry go and draft replacements and use the money on Geno instead.

Round 5: Dennis Johnson | RB | Arkansas

Personally, I think Johnson could be the best 3rd down back in this draft. He would almost likely be exclusively used in that role but he is very similar in his build and game to Darren Sproles. I question the speed/burst like Sproles (not many have it) but Johnson is a quick shifty back who can be effective as a runner and receiver.

Round 6: Ray-Ray Armstrong | SS | Faulkner College

Find a safety at all costs. As a 6th rounder, we aren't risking too much here. We have a lot of potential guys and Armstrong fits right in with Iloka and Sands. Between the three of them we should hit....right?

Depth:

QB: Dalton | Robinson
RB: Lacy | Johnson | Peerman | Leonard
FB: Pressley
TE: Gresham | Charles
WR: Green | Sanu | Jones | Hawkins | Whalen
LT: Whitworth | Collins
LG: Boling | Wharton
C: Cook | Robinson
RG: Zeitler | Wharton
RT: Smith | Collins

DE: Johnson | Werner | Dunlap | Buchannon
DT: Atkins | Still | Peko | Thompson
SLB: Mosley | Skov
MLB: Burfict | Maualuga
WLB: Durant | Sims
FS: Rambo | Sands
SS: Nelson | Iloka | Armstrong
CB: Hall | Kirkpatrick | Allen | Jones | Ghee/Prater
K: Nugent
P: Huber
LS: Harris
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-15-2012, 08:26 PM
mulligan mulligan is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 13,218
Rep Points: 7519
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
Depth:

QB: Dalton | Robinson
RB: Lacy | Johnson | Peerman | Leonard
FB: Pressley
TE: Gresham | Charles
WR: Green | Sanu | Jones | Hawkins | Whalen
LT: Whitworth | Collins
LG: Boling | Wharton
C: Cook | Robinson
RG: Zeitler | Wharton
RT: Smith | Collins

DE: Johnson | Werner | Dunlap | Buchannon
DT: Atkins | Still | Peko | Thompson
SLB: Mosley | Skov
MLB: Burfict | Maualuga
WLB: Durant | Sims
FS: Rambo | Sands
SS: Nelson | Iloka | Armstrong
CB: Hall | Kirkpatrick | Allen | Jones | Ghee/Prater

K: Nugent
P: Huber
LS: Harris
22 on offense? 24 on defense? And 3 on STs?

Bengals historically go with 9 olinemen. You have 8 listed.
Bengals historically go with 3 TEs. You have 2.
I am also nervous about having Robinson as a back up QB. I would keep Gradkowski.

I wouldn't agree with cutting BJGE for a rookie. BJGE has been money on 3rd downs. Some say that $3 million is a lot for a 3rd down back. I disagree.

If Rambo/Armstrong don't adjust to the NFL quickly, then the Bengals are going to be in a terrible SS position (again). It seems to me that the Bengals need to maintain a veteran SS while Rambo/Armstrong get up to speed. I don't trust Iloka, Sands, or Dye either.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-15-2012, 08:29 PM
berserkerone88's Avatar
berserkerone88 berserkerone88 is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Did you get that thing I sencha?
Posts: 20,302
Rep Points: 25175
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mulligan View Post
22 on offense? 24 on defense? And 3 on STs?

Bengals historically go with 9 olinemen. You have 8 listed.
Bengals historically go with 3 TEs. You have 2.
I am also nervous about having Robinson as a back up QB. I would keep Gradkowski.

I wouldn't agree with cutting BJGE for a rookie. BJGE has been money on 3rd downs. Some say that $3 million is a lot for a 3rd down back. I disagree.

If Rambo/Armstrong don't adjust to the NFL quickly, then the Bengals are going to be in a terrible SS position (again). It seems to me that the Bengals need to maintain a veteran SS while Rambo/Armstrong get up to speed. I don't trust Iloka, Sands, or Dye either.
I didn't get that detailed with filling out the roster. Its usually just filler guys.
BJGE is getting paid to much for a guy who does what he does. Lacy can do that. Hell Peerman has shown he can do it.

That is why I have Nelson at SS for the next few years. We dont use a traditional FS/SS right now with how we use Clements. Nelson has experience at CB and can play the hybrid role like Clements does, covering TEs and such. Let Rambo play CF.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-15-2012, 09:25 PM
mulligan mulligan is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 13,218
Rep Points: 7519
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
I didn't get that detailed with filling out the roster. Its usually just filler guys.
BJGE is getting paid to much for a guy who does what he does. Lacy can do that. Hell Peerman has shown he can do it.

That is why I have Nelson at SS for the next few years. We dont use a traditional FS/SS right now with how we use Clements. Nelson has experience at CB and can play the hybrid role like Clements does, covering TEs and such. Let Rambo play CF.
BJGE is not getting paid too much for what he does. Peyton Hillis is getting paid $2.8 million. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-ci...peyton-hillis/

BJGE is better on 3rd downs than Hillis. When has Peerman shown he can do "it"?

As for FS/SS, the title matters little. I don't feel comfortable with a rookie "Rambo" playing center field. I am fairly confident that someone probably wrote something similar to Taylor Mays playing center field prior to him getting drafted. In my view, the Bengals need another veteran besides Nelson.

I would say the same thing for defensive end. MJ/Dunlap/Werner/Buchannon. Geathers was a 4th round talent. What leads you to believe that a 5th round Buchannon has more upside than Geathers?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-15-2012, 09:32 PM
berserkerone88's Avatar
berserkerone88 berserkerone88 is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Did you get that thing I sencha?
Posts: 20,302
Rep Points: 25175
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mulligan View Post
BJGE is not getting paid too much for what he does. Peyton Hillis is getting paid $2.8 million. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-ci...peyton-hillis/

BJGE is better on 3rd downs than Hillis. When has Peerman shown he can do "it"?

As for FS/SS, the title matters little. I don't feel comfortable with a rookie "Rambo" playing center field. I am fairly confident that someone probably wrote something similar to Taylor Mays playing center field prior to him getting drafted. In my view, the Bengals need another veteran besides Nelson.

I would say the same thing for defensive end. MJ/Dunlap/Werner/Buchannon. Geathers was a 4th round talent. What leads you to believe that a 5th round Buchannon has more upside than Geathers?
Okay so he is better than Hillis. BGJE makes 3 million. Not worth it for a guy who at this point looks like a short yardage/goaline specialist. Peerman has shown this year he can duck his head for 3 yards like Ellis. It isn't about 3rd down. It is about short yardage.

And Rambo, not sure why you put quotes around his name, is a totally different player than Mays. He is instinctive and has great ball skills. He reads an offense and takes good angles. Mays relies solely on speed and size to make plays. He doesn't display awareness or instincts to play CF in the NFL.

What does Geathers draft status have to do with it? Nothing. It has nothing to do with it. By that logic Geno should have less upside than Kentwan Balmer. Geathers has pretty much gotten worse every year since his break out year....as of right now (hard concept?) he has less upside at age 29 (30 by the start of the 2013 season) than a young DE regardless of round. What does Geathers do that would make him worth keeping? He makes damn near 5million a year. Would he really take a pay drop worth what he actually plays like?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-15-2012, 09:41 PM
SunsetBengal's Avatar
SunsetBengal SunsetBengal is online now
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sunset Beach, NC
Posts: 15,731
Rep Points: 46988
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mulligan View Post
BJGE is not getting paid too much for what he does. Peyton Hillis is getting paid $2.8 million. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-ci...peyton-hillis/

BJGE is better on 3rd downs than Hillis. When has Peerman shown he can do "it"?

As for FS/SS, the title matters little. I don't feel comfortable with a rookie "Rambo" playing center field. I am fairly confident that someone probably wrote something similar to Taylor Mays playing center field prior to him getting drafted. In my view, the Bengals need another veteran besides Nelson.

I would say the same thing for defensive end. MJ/Dunlap/Werner/Buchannon. Geathers was a 4th round talent. What leads you to believe that a 5th round Buchannon has more upside than Geathers?

Wait a minute, that's a bogus link. It goes to a site where you have to pay adn join to get all the information. So where do we find the comparison on 3rd downs? From what I've seen, Hillis is only used on 3rd downs, so obviously, with fresh legs, Hillis would look better on 3rd downs.

Personally, I would have taken a healthy Bernard Scott teamed with Peyton Hillis over a one man show featuring the "Law Firm".. As BGE was not used as a workhorse in NE, and is not cut out for it in the NFL.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-15-2012, 10:00 PM
TGISunday's Avatar
TGISunday TGISunday is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,577
Rep Points: 3955
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

That's a lot of effort. Kudos.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-15-2012, 10:00 PM
mulligan mulligan is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 13,218
Rep Points: 7519
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
Okay so he is better than Hillis. BGJE makes 3 million. Not worth it for a guy who at this point looks like a short yardage/goaline specialist. Peerman has shown this year he can duck his head for 3 yards like Ellis. It isn't about 3rd down. It is about short yardage.

And Rambo, not sure why you put quotes around his name, is a totally different player than Mays. He is instinctive and has great ball skills. He reads an offense and takes good angles. Mays relies solely on speed and size to make plays. He doesn't display awareness or instincts to play CF in the NFL.

What does Geathers draft status have to do with it? Nothing. It has nothing to do with it. By that logic Geno should have less upside than Kentwan Balmer. Geathers has pretty much gotten worse every year since his break out year....as of right now (hard concept?) he has less upside at age 29 (30 by the start of the 2013 season) than a young DE regardless of round. What does Geathers do that would make him worth keeping? He makes damn near 5million a year. Would he really take a pay drop worth what he actually plays like?
Again, what is a 3rd down specialist going for in the NFL these days? Hillis seems like a 3rd down specialist to me. BJGE is making Hillis money. And, it seems to me that BJGE would be worth $3 million if he would continue to go 11 for 14 on 3rd/4th & short. It seems to me that BJGE proves over and over he can be the guy especially over a 5th round RB. There is a big difference in getting 3 yards on 1st or 2nd down and getting 3 yards on 3rd. Peerman hasn't proven that he can get yardage on 3rd down.

In regards to Rambo (the paratheses were an error), if Rambo is as good as you say he is, then he won't last until the 3rd round. Even if he does, I still don't trust a safety group with essentially one veteran (Nelson) & 4 unproven players (Rambo/Armstrong/Sands/Iloka). If Nelson would get injured, the Bengals would be in a world of hurt. Throw in a veteran as a back up, and I can get on board.

I just noticed that you have the Bengals having 2 fifth round picks. They have 2 sixth round picks and only 1 fifth round pick. Perhaps, this will put to bed my issue/challenge of the Buchannon pick. Which would you choose; the DE or the RB?

Buchannon is projected as a 4-5 round pick by CBS. He is also 240 lbs & 6'5". I know you don't put much stock in weight at DE. But it seems that the Bengals do (MJ, Dunlap, Moch all gained weight.)

Would you consider an upgrade to Dennis Roland with the 5th round pick?

Dennis Johnson has a 5th round grade by CBS.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-15-2012, 10:08 PM
mulligan mulligan is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 13,218
Rep Points: 7519
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunsetBengal View Post
Wait a minute, that's a bogus link. It goes to a site where you have to pay adn join to get all the information. So where do we find the comparison on 3rd downs? From what I've seen, Hillis is only used on 3rd downs, so obviously, with fresh legs, Hillis would look better on 3rd downs.

Personally, I would have taken a healthy Bernard Scott teamed with Peyton Hillis over a one man show featuring the "Law Firm".. As BGE was not used as a workhorse in NE, and is not cut out for it in the NFL.
The link is to show Hillis' contract not his stats.

If the Bengals drafted a 2nd round RB, then BJGE could be used more as a 3rd down specialist.

And, with BJGE running on 1st & 2nd down already, he is pretty much money on 3rd down. If BJGE snaps were to be reduced, then he potentially would be even more effective/productive on 3rd down.

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/10/2...-go-situations
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-16-2012, 12:50 AM
Draftdruggie Draftdruggie is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 100
Rep Points: 30
bengals Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Mikey won't cut law firm because it makes too much scense and the coaches think he's doing a great job. I love your draft but its unlikely that mosley makes it out of the first. I really would like to let Smith walk and draft Jake Matthews in round 1. Andre Smtih just hasn't panned out solid when healthy but just look at the money he's made already and hasn't sniffed the probowl.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-16-2012, 01:03 AM
berserkerone88's Avatar
berserkerone88 berserkerone88 is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Did you get that thing I sencha?
Posts: 20,302
Rep Points: 25175
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draftdruggie View Post
Mikey won't cut law firm because it makes too much scense and the coaches think he's doing a great job. I love your draft but its unlikely that mosley makes it out of the first. I really would like to let Smith walk and draft Jake Matthews in round 1. Andre Smtih just hasn't panned out solid when healthy but just look at the money he's made already and hasn't sniffed the probowl.
Agree it is unlikely but could be a unnecessary evil and they might swallow their pride...

Your assessment of Andre couldn't be more off.
He has been a top RT in the NFL the last 2 seasons.
Pro Bowl is a horse **** way of judging talent.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-16-2012, 10:13 AM
Hammerstripes Hammerstripes is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Atkinson, NE
Posts: 7,604
Rep Points: 6650
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

I don't think cutting those 3 guys to save $3 million makes sense.

I would cut Wharton at this point.

If we re-sign MJ, I just don't see the fascination with drafting Werner. I know you have a love affair with him, but I just don't see it.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-16-2012, 11:30 AM
mulligan mulligan is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 13,218
Rep Points: 7519
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerstripes View Post
I don't think cutting those 3 guys to save $3 million makes sense.

I would cut Wharton at this point.

If we re-sign MJ, I just don't see the fascination with drafting Werner. I know you have a love affair with him, but I just don't see it.
I agree that it wouldn't make sense to cut BJGE. Binns is almost a non-facter on the Bengals now. Mays is a defensive gadget player and adds value perhaps.

Cutting Wharton is interesting. Whit/Collins, Boling/Wharton, Cook/Robinson, Zeitler, Smith/TBD is actually a very, very good and deep oline. If money is extremely tight (which it may be), then I could understand the cut. WTS, I would prefer if the Bengals kept the oline depth. The more comfortable AD feels behind the oline, the better AD will play.

The Bengals pass rush is inconsistant. Dunlap has been injured and misses games every year. MJ seems to be a non-factor if Dunlap isn't in the game. And our defense runs much, much better when the Bengals have a pass rush. If Werner can stabilize our defensive ends, then he will make the Bengals a much more dynamic defensive football team.

I know that this may sound like complete blashphemy to you, but I would be intrigued if the Bengals added Werner in the 1st, Okafor & RB in the 2nd, SS in the 3rd while signing RB Tolbert in FA.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-16-2012, 11:40 AM
berserkerone88's Avatar
berserkerone88 berserkerone88 is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Did you get that thing I sencha?
Posts: 20,302
Rep Points: 25175
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerstripes View Post
I don't think cutting those 3 guys to save $3 million makes sense.

I would cut Wharton at this point.

If we re-sign MJ, I just don't see the fascination with drafting Werner. I know you have a love affair with him, but I just don't see it.
Are MJ and Dunlap so good and reliable to really say that? I don't think they are.
MJ is just there most games. Outside of the game where he got to go up against the retiree, he has been equally ineffective as his entire career. How many games do we get to play without Dunlap next year? Sorry but I wont hinge my defense on him being healthy anymore.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-16-2012, 11:41 AM
Hammerstripes Hammerstripes is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Atkinson, NE
Posts: 7,604
Rep Points: 6650
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mulligan View Post
I agree that it wouldn't make sense to cut BJGE. Binns is almost a non-facter on the Bengals now. Mays is a defensive gadget player and adds value perhaps.

Cutting Wharton is interesting. Whit/Collins, Boling/Wharton, Cook/Robinson, Zeitler, Smith/TBD is actually a very, very good and deep oline. If money is extremely tight (which it may be), then I could understand the cut. WTS, I would prefer if the Bengals kept the oline depth. The more comfortable AD feels behind the oline, the better AD will play.

The Bengals pass rush is inconsistant. Dunlap has been injured and misses games every year. MJ seems to be a non-factor if Dunlap isn't in the game. And our defense runs much, much better when the Bengals have a pass rush. If Werner can stabilize our defensive ends, then he will make the Bengals a much more dynamic defensive football team.

I know that this may sound like complete blashphemy to you, but I would be intrigued if the Bengals added Werner in the 1st, Okafor & RB in the 2nd, SS in the 3rd while signing RB Tolbert in FA.
It's not blasphemy to me. My personal draft strategy is much different then the way that I project the Bengals to draft.

For instance: I would take a pass rusher in the 1st round if I was running this team. I'm not, so my views on the Bengals draft is much different.

So: Since the Bengals rarely add impact free agents and starters outside of the draft, I view the draft as the only way to add a quality player. This year I see the needs as S, LB, RB. I can't get on board with a DE in the first when it means we will pass on the other positions until later in the draft.

I am not a Werner fan for a 4-3. I don't think he will add much as a pass rusher at the NFL level. He doesn't have the elite first step that the great pass rushers have. I can see him as a high motor guy, but that won't help our pass rush.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-16-2012, 11:44 AM
Hammerstripes Hammerstripes is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Atkinson, NE
Posts: 7,604
Rep Points: 6650
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
Are MJ and Dunlap so good and reliable to really say that? I don't think they are.
MJ is just there most games. Outside of the game where he got to go up against the retiree, he has been equally ineffective as his entire career. How many games do we get to play without Dunlap next year? Sorry but I wont hinge my defense on him being healthy anymore.
Why would you give up on 2 guys that are 25 and younger? Not every player develops fully in their first contract.

I don't think you can say with any certainty that Werner is going to be better than those 2. In fact, he could be a complete bust. Since we use a rotation at DE, it makes little sense to use a first round pick on a guy like Werner. If there was a complete DE that shows the elite pass rushing skills and the size to be a force agains the run, I would be on board. I would be much more comfortable using a 2nd or a 3rd on a pass rusher, but this year's group isn't very inspiring at the top. A lot of guys that show physical skills, but don't show the production.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-16-2012, 12:19 PM
BobJones4980's Avatar
BobJones4980 BobJones4980 is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,466
Rep Points: 2423
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerstripes View Post
Why would you give up on 2 guys that are 25 and younger? Not every player develops fully in their first contract.

I don't think you can say with any certainty that Werner is going to be better than those 2. In fact, he could be a complete bust. Since we use a rotation at DE, it makes little sense to use a first round pick on a guy like Werner. If there was a complete DE that shows the elite pass rushing skills and the size to be a force agains the run, I would be on board. I would be much more comfortable using a 2nd or a 3rd on a pass rusher, but this year's group isn't very inspiring at the top. A lot of guys that show physical skills, but don't show the production.
Because when Dunlap goes down every year we have to go with Geathers and Gilberry paired with Johnson who is invisible most games, If we use your logic we mid as well not draft anyone because we arent positive that anybody we draft will be better than one of our guys and they may all be a bust.

Also you stated we used our DE in a rotation so we wouldnt be giving up on anyone just improving the rotation.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-16-2012, 12:34 PM
Hammerstripes Hammerstripes is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Atkinson, NE
Posts: 7,604
Rep Points: 6650
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobJones4980 View Post
Because when Dunlap goes down every year we have to go with Geathers and Gilberry paired with Johnson who is invisible most games, If we use your logic we mid as well not draft anyone because we arent positive that anybody we draft will be better than one of our guys and they may all be a bust.

Also you stated we used our DE in a rotation so we wouldnt be giving up on anyone just improving the rotation.
You don't use a 1st round pick on a rotational player. I have no problem drafting a DE, but to do it in the first round makes no sense. Look around the league, there are a ton of guys that have been drafted after the first round that are outstanding situational pass rushers.

I would much rather add a guy that can step in and start and fill a need in the first round than I would adding a guy that will be a 3rd down specialist.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-16-2012, 12:43 PM
BobJones4980's Avatar
BobJones4980 BobJones4980 is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,466
Rep Points: 2423
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerstripes View Post
You don't use a 1st round pick on a rotational player. I have no problem drafting a DE, but to do it in the first round makes no sense. Look around the league, there are a ton of guys that have been drafted after the first round that are outstanding situational pass rushers.

I would much rather add a guy that can step in and start and fill a need in the first round than I would adding a guy that will be a 3rd down specialist.
He would be competing with an often injured Dunlap and a below average player in Johnson, Id be willing to bet he would be our starter relatively soon if not immediatly.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-16-2012, 12:53 PM
berserkerone88's Avatar
berserkerone88 berserkerone88 is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Did you get that thing I sencha?
Posts: 20,302
Rep Points: 25175
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerstripes View Post
You don't use a 1st round pick on a rotational player. I have no problem drafting a DE, but to do it in the first round makes no sense. Look around the league, there are a ton of guys that have been drafted after the first round that are outstanding situational pass rushers.

I would much rather add a guy that can step in and start and fill a need in the first round than I would adding a guy that will be a 3rd down specialist.
Why are you limiting Werner to a third down specialist?
If that is anyone, it is the king of knicks and bruises Mr. Dunlap.
But it isn't kosher to diss him
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-16-2012, 01:06 PM
mulligan mulligan is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 13,218
Rep Points: 7519
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerstripes View Post
You don't use a 1st round pick on a rotational player. I have no problem drafting a DE, but to do it in the first round makes no sense. Look around the league, there are a ton of guys that have been drafted after the first round that are outstanding situational pass rushers.

I would much rather add a guy that can step in and start and fill a need in the first round than I would adding a guy that will be a 3rd down specialist.
In the 2011, many teams drafted dlinemen as rotational players initially. 49ers with Aldon Smith, Texans with JJ Watt, Rams with Robert Quinn, Kerrigan with Redskins.

Actually, I don't know if any teams drafted a DE as a 3 down player in 2011.

I don't know a ton about Werner, but he is listed as the number 1 prospect for defensive end in the draft. The Bengals need a playmaker on the dline. And the Bengals need more consistant pass rush.

It seems that Werner could be a fit in many ways.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-16-2012, 02:12 PM
Truck_1_0_1_'s Avatar
Truck_1_0_1_ Truck_1_0_1_ is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Maple, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,607
Rep Points: 18185
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draftdruggie View Post
Mikey won't cut law firm because it makes too much scense and the coaches think he's doing a great job. I love your draft but its unlikely that mosley makes it out of the first. I really would like to let Smith walk and draft Jake Matthews in round 1. Andre Smtih just hasn't panned out solid when healthy but just look at the money he's made already and hasn't sniffed the probowl.
(facepalm)

Stop it.
__________________


Soooooooooo much thanks to Cin for this incredible sig!

CHILD PLEASE
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-16-2012, 02:25 PM
Hammerstripes Hammerstripes is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Atkinson, NE
Posts: 7,604
Rep Points: 6650
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
Why are you limiting Werner to a third down specialist?
If that is anyone, it is the king of knicks and bruises Mr. Dunlap.
But it isn't kosher to diss him
No, I'm putting him in with all the other DEs that we currently have. We use a rotation. It's that simple.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BobJones4980 View Post
He would be competing with an often injured Dunlap and a below average player in Johnson, Id be willing to bet he would be our starter relatively soon if not immediatly.
Below average? Come on. I wouldn't consider him below average. Why would you roll the dice on a guy when you have 2 solid DEs that are both under 25 and then ignore a bigger need on this team? that makes no sense at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mulligan View Post
In the 2011, many teams drafted dlinemen as rotational players initially. 49ers with Aldon Smith, Texans with JJ Watt, Rams with Robert Quinn, Kerrigan with Redskins.

Actually, I don't know if any teams drafted a DE as a 3 down player in 2011.

I don't know a ton about Werner, but he is listed as the number 1 prospect for defensive end in the draft. The Bengals need a playmaker on the dline. And the Bengals need more consistant pass rush.

It seems that Werner could be a fit in many ways.
Almost all teams bring their rookies in slowly as part of a rotation. That's not the point. The 49ers, Texams. Rams and Redskins don't use a heavy rotation like the Bengals. It's not the player, it's the system. the Bengals have rotated guys on run downs, passing downs and in special situations. I don't see the need to add a rotation player when this team has far better needs.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-16-2012, 04:56 PM
mulligan mulligan is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 13,218
Rep Points: 7519
Default Re: Newest Mock (lots of words too!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerstripes View Post
No, I'm putting him in with all the other DEs that we currently have. We use a rotation. It's that simple.




Below average? Come on. I wouldn't consider him below average. Why would you roll the dice on a guy when you have 2 solid DEs that are both under 25 and then ignore a bigger need on this team? that makes no sense at all.



Almost all teams bring their rookies in slowly as part of a rotation. That's not the point. The 49ers, Texams. Rams and Redskins don't use a heavy rotation like the Bengals. It's not the player, it's the system. the Bengals have rotated guys on run downs, passing downs and in special situations. I don't see the need to add a rotation player when this team has far better needs.
Question: Do you feel that the Bengals get consistant pass rush from their front 4? I don't think that anyone does. But maybe you do. It seems to me that drafting Werner would address the inconsistancy of the pass rush. And probably, Werner would help to create more consistant pass rush.

It is possible that the Bengals have used a rotation on the dline, because the Bengals roster in recent history has not had a 3 down dlinemen.

When the Bengals did have a more-rounded defensive players (e.g. Justin Smith & Odom), they would play these players all three downs.

Heck, the Bengals are using a WR2 by committee approach in 2012. This is more about the personnel than it is about the preference.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2012 Cincinnati Bengals. All rights reserved. Do not duplicate in any form without permission of the Cincinnati Bengals.