Thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken

[TheCincinnatiKid]

Originally Posted by Lygraf

i can't say i'm TOO disappointed in him because it feels like forever since we've had a really dynamic back on the team.

the dude's converting 3rd downs. move the chains and i'm happy.

Agreed. He could up that YPC cause it isn't good, but we knew it wasn't gunna be much higher when we brought him in.

He's a good complimentary back, or good in a committee, or good with limited carries. Not as the carrier of a running game which sees a lot of the offensive play %. I think we do better using Peerman more, and next year bringing another guy in too be more of the feature back, whether its via the draft/FA. I think BJGE can be a very handy RB for the team still.

[WackyJtM]

Originally Posted by Millz

I think a lot of it has to do with his lack of speed to go outside and having Faine in there at center. Losing Wharton didnt help either as his specialty was supposed to be run-blocking though Boling isnt bad. Basically, I thought BJGE would be having a better year as I thought it would be due to the o-line being improved over last year. Since the latter hasn't happened due to injuries while BJGE just doesnt "have it" apparently, this is the result.

But why the organization didn't try to make a move before the trade deadline to get another running back is just a head-scratcher. Well not a head-scratcher considering, but still, I just don't get them. If BJGE would have gotten hurt before the trade deadline, I bet Boom would have got called up instead.

I don't watch college football, so I'm not sure how good/bad Boom is (obviously PS gives me a pretty good idea, but still.) Anyone want to enlighten me?

[n8dawgy45102]

I think if we use BJGE as the patrots did (short yardage situations, goal line runs, ect.) he would be a good rotational back, but using him as an every down back just does not work. Tell me why we did not go after Deangelo Williams or Steven Jackson?? I say we run marvin out of town after this year and give the team to Zimmer. Hey marvin 8-8 cuts it in the NFC why not try coaching there?

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by BengalsBong

Peerman has not been injured all year.His spot on this team is RB if they need to take some of the load off of him why not hand it to the only other healthy RB on the team.

And if he hasn't been hurt, then why hasn't he been getting carries?
Scott being hurt screwed up their plans. Plain and simple .

[crazyjdawg]

BJGE has absolutely no burst, no acceleration and, quite frankly, it's become a momentous occasion when he gets more than 4 yards.

That's how bad he is. 5 yards is considered like "Booya *****es!"

[Millz]

Originally Posted by WackyJtM

I don't watch college football, so I'm not sure how good/bad Boom is (obviously PS gives me a pretty good idea, but still.) Anyone want to enlighten me?

He had a pretty good sophomore year, then the scandal plagued junior year last year. He didnt look good in camp and preseason. But my point was the organization just seemed deadset on going ahead with the guys in place, as they have done after Bernard went on IR. I just dont understand why not try to pluck someone off a practice squad somewhere, or make a trade for someone when our running game is worse off this year than it was last year and before that and so-on.

[BengalsBong]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

And if he hasn't been hurt, then why hasn't he been getting carries?
Scott being hurt screwed up their plans. Plain and simple .

Why did Simpson sit on the bench for 3 years then produce.I would take Simpson over half the WR we have now.I know Peerman was not in thier plans this year.But when Scott is injured Leonard is injured and BJGE is not doing great give Peerman some carries see what he can do.Since Scott is out now you just want to ride BJGE 3.4 ypc till the end of the year and not even give a guy that has did nothing but produce on ST when givien the chance a shot.I know you want to pull off a trade or sign some 2k yard rushers that is sitting at home unsigned.Back to reality we are not getting any more help at RB this year your options are give BJGE all the carries and continue to be blah.Or try to better your team and give a guy that deserves a chance more carries.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by BengalsBong

Why did Simpson sit on the bench for 3 years then produce.I would take Simpson over half the WR we have now.I know Peerman was not in thier plans this year.But when Scott is injured Leonard is injured and BJGE is not doing great give Peerman some carries see what he can do.Since Scott is out now you just want to ride BJGE 3.4 ypc till the end of the year and not even give a guy that has did nothing but produce on ST when givien the chance a shot.I know you want to pull off a trade or sign some 2k yard rushers that is sitting at home unsigned.Back to reality we are not getting any more help at RB this year your options are give BJGE all the carries and continue to be blah.Or try to better your team and give a guy that deserves a chance more carries.

Agree 100%. When players get injured, plans change. There's been absolutely no reason not to give Peerman the carries that were intended for Scott. If Peerman isn't good enough, we should've brought in someone who is. Also, I would take Simpson over any WR not named AJ Green this year.

[yellowxdiscipline]

Yes to answer all your questions....We need real talent at RB..

[adpwhodey]

Marvin is pretty much a Rex Ryan clone. He would rather not look wrong and admit he made a mistake than change things for the better to help improve the team. That attitude has lost us a lot more games than we can imagine in his tenure.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by yellowxdiscipline

Yes to answer all your questions....We need real talent at RB..

No doubt. What bothers me is seeing other teams with 3rd string RBs step right in and produce. Jonathan Dwyer is just one example. Yet our 3rd string RB is apparently only worthy of ST. I guess Gruden finally talked Marv into letting him use Peerman more. It only took half the season. We need to see what he's got so we know just how big of a need RB is in the offseason. We may need to draft 2 RBs.

[BengalsRocker]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

No doubt. What bothers me is seeing other teams with 3rd string RBs step right in and produce. Jonathan Dwyer is just one example. Yet our 3rd string RB is apparently only worthy of ST. I guess Gruden finally talked Marv into letting him use Peerman more. It only took half the season. We need to see what he's got so we know just how big of a need RB is in the offseason. We may need to draft 2 RBs.

Dwyer and Chris Rainey. Isn't it frickin' ridiculous?

I do have to admit when Peerman is prepped to perhaps carry some in a game, it seems like our ST suffers. Even if he plays a couple of Kickoffs/punts.

Has anyone else noticed this... or am I imagining something?

I thought it was most noticeable against Cleveland in the second game. Usually Peerman is a hawk on getting to the returner and making the tackle. He was non-existent in that game on ST.

If this is true it's kind of bothersome. You prep a guy to play. He doesn't get hardly any carries and your special teams play suffers. That's just not going to do us any good.

Regardless we should have picked up a RB if Peerman is not capable of sharing some kind of RB duties. If the coaches don't feel he can do it. They should have done something about it. Not meander and ho hum and stick with this "we'll just wait and see" mentality that will surely end in failure.

This "our hands are tied" mentality has to stop. We've got injuries and so do the other 31 teams in the league. So we had BIG plans for B. Scott. He's done. Are you really going to tell me that our run scheme is based mostly on him? Scrap it boys. We're gonna make BJGE our bellcow back. You know. The thing we didn't want to do so we got rid of Benson.

Wow. Now that's just plain silly.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

- Currently Law Firm is 10th in carries, but is only 15th in 1st downs, and 19th in yardage.

- Of 24 RBs with 100+ carries, Law Firm is 23rd in ypc. Only McFadden is worse.

- Of those 24 RBs with over 100 carries, only Law Firm and Ryan Matthews have only a single 20+ yard run (Law Firm's was exactly 20 yards)

- Our leading rusher has not averaged less than 3.5 per carry since 1993. In fact, Ced Benson is the only RB to average less than 3.8 for a season during that span (he averaged 3.5 ypc in both '08 and '10). Law Firm is currently averaging 3.42.

People may blow this off as hyperbole, but I seriously think Law Firm may be the worst starting RB the Bengals have ever had. He's that bad. I really didn't think we could do worse than 3.5 Benson, but apparently we found just the guy.

And then you stop and put it in perspective that he was not suppose to be the main guy and you say where is he compared to #2 backs. It is easy to bash a guy without taking circumstances into account. He is starting because of an unfortunate injury.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

And then you stop and put it in perspective that he was not suppose to be the main guy and you say where is he compared to #2 backs. It is easy to bash a guy without taking circumstances into account. He is starting because of an unfortunate injury.

C'mon man... You know what you're saying isn't true. Was there ever any doubt that Law Firm was going to be the starter and get the bulk of the carries? No. Also, in those 2 games where Scott was active, he didn't get any more carries than he got last year. Mike Brown and Marv decided to make Law Firm our new "bell cow". I agree though that he's obviously not suited for the role.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

C'mon man... You know what you're saying isn't true. Was there ever any doubt that Law Firm was going to be the starter and get the bulk of the carries? No. Also, in those 2 games where Scott was active, he didn't get any more carries than he got last year. Mike Brown and Marv decided to make Law Firm our new "bell cow". I agree though that he's obviously not suited for the role.

Disagree. I believe he was brought here to strengthen an obvious deficiency and that was short yardage and redzone scoring. Marvin brought up the fact many times last year that Scott should have more carries. The problem was the sulking and pouting of another RB when you attempted to do so. They killed two birds with one stone.

The two games Scott was active I they were still concerned with the hand and getting him into actual football condition for taking hits and so forth. You know that as well as I do.

[D.Boon]

As far as I remembe, BJGE was brought in to replace Benson. They did talk about more of a RB by Committee with Scott getting more looks, but BJGE was to be the main man. I'd agree with the OP saying that BJGE is the most underwhelming bengals starting RB in recent memory.

[yellowxdiscipline]

There never was a running back committee, it was feed BJGE 15-20 times a game, despite other runners being able to get bigger chunks of yardage.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

The two games Scott was active I they were still concerned with the hand and getting him into actual football condition for taking hits and so forth. You know that as well as I do.

No, I don't know that. By the time Scott played, he was in game shape. That's why he was practicing for weeks before he actually saw action in a game. There may have been a lot of talk about a committee during the offseason, but as Marv once said "I see better than I hear".

If a committee was such a huge part of our plans, why didn't we invest a draft pick on a RB capable of splitting the load in case Scott went down (which he is known to do)? Also, why didn't we sign someone else or play Peerman when Scott went down?

The obvious answer is that the committee talk was exactly that. Talk. IMO, Jay probably wanted a committee, and Marv nixed it. Marv has always been big on having a "bell cow".

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

No, I don't know that. By the time Scott played, he was in game shape. That's why he was practicing for weeks before he actually saw action in a game. There may have been a lot of talk about a committee during the offseason, but as Marv once said "I see better than I hear".

If a committee was such a huge part of our plans, why didn't we invest a draft pick on a RB capable of splitting the load in case Scott went down (which he is known to do)? Also, why didn't we sign someone else or play Peerman when Scott went down?

The obvious answer is that the committee talk was exactly that. Talk. IMO, Jay probably wanted a committee, and Marv nixed it. Marv has always been big on having a "bell cow".

Are you seriously going to make me say it? Okay.......

There is only one single way to get to 100% game speed and conditioning.

Yep.....playing in games. Perfect recent example...Pat Sims. Practice is great but until you are in a game going full throttle hitting guys in other uniforms there is usually still lingering doubt. With a running back his hands are sort of critical to the game.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Are you seriously going to make me say it? Okay.......

There is only one single way to get to 100% game speed and conditioning.

Yep.....playing in games. Perfect recent example...Pat Sims. Practice is great but until you are in a game going full throttle hitting guys in other uniforms there is usually still lingering doubt. With a running back his hands are sort of critical to the game.

Not buying it. How many feature backs come back from injury and carry the rock 20+ times? Scott was supposed to be splitting carries and couldn't manage that after weeks of practice? Again, C'mon man. AP came back from shredding his knee and was wearing a black jersey throughout training camp. Yet he came out in week 1 and went right back into it.

Also, you didn't answer why we didn't draft a RB capable of sharing carries in case Scott went down, or why we didn't sign a RB or give Peerman more carries once Scott went down. If a committee approach was such an important part of their plans, then why didn't they cover their butts a little better?

[D's Nuts and Bolts]

Originally Posted by yellowxdiscipline

Yes to answer all your questions....We need real talent at RB..

Yes what he said.

The reason we will never be in the same class as PIT is quality depth and coaching. PIT's Oline and RB's have been a mess all year but they continue to have 100 yard rushers. However I think we are even in the backup QB area, Leftwitch yikes.

[68Firebird]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Disagree. I believe he was brought here to strengthen an obvious deficiency and that was short yardage and redzone scoring. Marvin brought up the fact many times last year that Scott should have more carries. The problem was the sulking and pouting of another RB when you attempted to do so. They killed two birds with one stone.

The two games Scott was active I they were still concerned with the hand and getting him into actual football condition for taking hits and so forth. You know that as well as I do.

Why would you believe that?

The Bengals, Marvin Lewis in particular, value the big, slugging, between the tackles RBs to the Lesean McCoy speed/quickness backs. This is evident in how they have used those guys when they get them on the roster, which is to say sparingly at best.

Also, look at how they stack the roster with two big RBs and one smaller, quick back. The quick one being relegated to special teams duty almost always.

Marvin Lewis RB break down since coming to Cincy:

- 2003: inherited Corey Dillon (A HOFer if he didn't play for the 90's Bengals, IMO)/Rudy Johnson. Both bigger guys, Corey was hurt so not a lot of data to compare. These were both inherited RBs so there's not much to draw from here as far as coach's preference.

- 2004: Rudy/Kenny Watson (Watson, BTW avg. 6.2 a carry, but only got 26 carries)

- 2005: Rudy/Perry (Definitely not a little guy... was injured)

- 2006: Rudy/Perry (who played more, still injured)/Watson (Again, AVG. 5.5 yrds/cry but only got 25 touches) This year was weird because of Perry's emergence and then injury. Perry avg. 5.7 a carry, but was out after 56 touches. Kenny Watson smoked Rudy Johnson's 3.8 yards per carry avg. every time he touched the ball for consecutive years. BUUUUUUT, his work load did not increase. The coaching staff failed to recognize and/or utilize the change-of-pace/platoon style running attack. Many years worth of stats and roster breakdowns show that this is because they CLEARLY favor the big bruiser.

-2007: This was shocking to me when I looked it up because they FINALLY gave the smaller Kenny Watson an opportunity to contribute..... Watson/Rudy. Watson, AGAIN with 4.3 per carry, but they gave him 178 touches. Rudy only avg. 2.9 a carry on 170 touches. IF they had a better RB than Rudy Johnson's 2.9 per, I think the rushing attack would have been bigger for BOTH RBs because of the ability of an offense to surprise/switch up plays if both guys were dangerous.

SIDE NOTE: DeDe Dorsey with 21 carries for 8.7 yards a carry

- 2008: Benson/Perry (injured & ineffective)/Watson.... SURPRISE 4.2 avg. on 13 carries.

2009: Benson/Scott/LJohnson (Each back avg. 4.2, 4.3, 4.4 respectively) but Benson got by far the most amount of carries. Wish we would have kept LJ around longer and let him get comfortable.

20010: Benson/BScott (Scott gets only 61 carries but avg. 4.9 to Benson's 3.5)

2011: Benson/BScott (Scott avg. less per carry than Benson by 1/2 a yard)

NO, I'm not stumping for Kenny Watson, and I don't own his jersey (LOL). But what does all of this really tell us? That the Bengals under Marvin Lewis, without question, favor bigger backs as every down backs. How do I draw this conclusion? Because even when faced with RBs on the roster who unquestionably produce, they REFUSE to give them a regular role in the offense. They claim "AFCN brand of football" or that the smaller RBs can't pass protect (BS, because we see teams put smaller backs in on passing downs all the time!!!)

Marvin Lewis at this point reminds me of the last guy on Earth that sold the horse and buggy. I'm sure his horse and buggies were the finest on the planet... too bad everybody had already switched over to driving cars. Big, between the tackles backs are old news in the NFL and are not used as main RBs. Fast, quick, pass catching backs have been where it's at for years now and the Bengals coaching staff seem to still be dreaming (or having nightmares) of their Jerome Bettis.

BJGE is just the latest to get a pay check from the Bengals because of this deficiency in thinking. "AFC North" football, changed with Willie Parker in 2006. Marvin Lewis is still running his horse and buggy defense and offenses out their to try to race the Ferraris of the league.

Evidence of this: Rey allowed to gain 20 lbs to, you know, take that OLD "AFCN" brand of football pounding. Not resigning Brandon Johnson, who was very good in coverage, leaving smaller, faster LB like Lamur off the roster in favor of resigning Muck.

[bfine32]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

And then you stop and put it in perspective that he was not suppose to be the main guy and you say where is he compared to #2 backs. It is easy to bash a guy without taking circumstances into account. He is starting because of an unfortunate injury.

Ben was brought in here to be the main guy; anybody that says anything else is just being silly. If our plan was to make B.Scott the feature back wewoulda bought in someone to replace him. We did in the past when Ced missed time.
However, the coaches realized that Scott going down really didn't effect their gameplan; as we were only going to use him in a supporting role.

[Millz]

Originally Posted by bfine32

Ben was brought in here to be the main guy; anybody that says anything else is just being silly. If our plan was to make B.Scott the feature back wewoulda bought in someone to replace him. We did in the past when Ced missed time.
However, the coaches realized that Scott going down really didn't effect their gameplan; as we were only going to use him in a supporting role.

Yup. And why they wouldn't at least try to bring in someone to give a spark back there, I just don't get it. Not like it would cost a lot either, whether it be $ or a draft pick. It is almost as if they just threw in the towel and will try to 'fix' it after the season over, if they even try to fix it that is. At this point based on the moves of this last off-season, I would be absolutely shocked if they used a draft pick in the first 3 rounds on a RB. I am guessing probably will be a 5th or a 6th rounder.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by Millz

Yup. And why they wouldn't at least try to bring in someone to give a spark back there, I just don't get it. Not like it would cost a lot either, whether it be $ or a draft pick. It is almost as if they just threw in the towel and will try to 'fix' it after the season over, if they even try to fix it that is. At this point based on the moves of this last off-season, I would be absolutely shocked if they used a draft pick in the first 3 rounds on a RB. I am guessing probably will be a 5th or a 6th rounder.

We've never taken the RB position seriously under Marv. He's only drafted a RB in the first 4 sounds twice (Perry and Irons) and we've brought in free agent gems Benson and Ellis. Like I told Savage, if the first 4 rounds of the 13 draft go by without us taking a back, I think I'll throw my TV out the window. I wouldn't mind if we pursued McFadden either, but that's not going to happen.