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  #1  
Old 11-14-2012, 12:38 PM
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Default Here's Carson



Here's Carson

Thanks to a slew of QB injuries as well as a nice matchup, Carson Palmer is ranked in the top 10 for the first time this season


This link might change soon.

http://games.espn.go.com/frontpage/football
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  #2  
Old 11-14-2012, 12:52 PM
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Default Re: Here's Carson

Carson is having a way better season than he's getting credit for. His offensive line *****, he has no run game, and he's still playing relatively well.

On pace for: 4840 yards, 27 TDs, 16 INTs
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:06 PM
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Default Re: Here's Carson

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Originally Posted by ibengals View Post
Carson is having a way better season than he's getting credit for. His offensive line *****, he has no run game, and he's still playing relatively well.

On pace for: 4840 yards, 27 TDs, 16 INTs
He also has no defense. The Raiders are downright terrible, and Carson's play should be the least of their worries.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:09 PM
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Default Re: Here's Carson

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Originally Posted by ibengals View Post
Carson is having a way better season than he's getting credit for. His offensive line *****, he has no run game, and he's still playing relatively well.

On pace for: 4840 yards, 27 TDs, 16 INTs

Judging by how he used to perform for the Bengals in meaningful games, he ought to be able to be counted on for 2 Bengals TDs that day.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:18 PM
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Default Re: Here's Carson

his offseason might be pretty interesting. Another possible retirement??
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: Here's Carson

Carson is doing nothing different than he did in Cincy...throws for a lot of yards, good amount of TD,s and way too many int's. he is also losing most games like he did in cincy as well, which, is the bottom line.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: Here's Carson

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Originally Posted by DennyG2 View Post
Carson is doing nothing different than he did in Cincy...throws for a lot of yards, good amount of TD,s and way too many int's. he is also losing most games like he did in cincy as well, which, is the bottom line.
He isn't great, but I don't know many QBs out there who are going to score more than 55 points on the road against the Ravens. He isn't put in a position to win, he's in a position to put up gaudy stats. Meh, I'll take it!
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:27 AM
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Default Re: Here's Carson

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Originally Posted by DennyG2 View Post
...throws for a lot of yards, good amount of TD,s and way too many int's. he is also losing most games
Sounds a lot like our current QB, who's thrown more interceptions and had more overall turnovers than our old QB.

To say he is losing most games is beyond dumb. Their defense is like a wet paper bag and their running game is the worst in the NFL.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:57 AM
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Default Re: Here's Carson

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Originally Posted by hailroad View Post
Sounds a lot like our current QB, who's thrown more interceptions and had more overall turnovers than our old QB.

To say he is losing most games is beyond dumb. Their defense is like a wet paper bag and their running game is the worst in the NFL.
Carson isnt costing the Raiders Games.... at least that ive seen

But he cant win them himself either.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by BengalsFan024 View Post
Carson isnt costing the Raiders Games.... at least that ive seen

But he cant win them himself either.
Being down 18 points in the 4th quarter and dropping 22 on the opposing team is a pretty Herculean effort in my book. He did throw 2 picks in that 4th quarter of the Bucs game, but they also only ran the ball 4 times in the 2nd half. The Bucs defense knew what was coming and all they had to do was sit back in zone and have their DL pin their ears back.

As far as the Baltimore game, there is not much one can do when the opposing team drops 55 points on your defense.
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Old 11-16-2012, 04:14 AM
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Default Re: Here's Carson

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Originally Posted by DennyG2 View Post
Carson is doing nothing different than he did in Cincy...throws for a lot of yards, good amount of TD,s and way too many int's. he is also losing most games like he did in cincy as well, which, is the bottom line.
He's doing nothing different except playing better for a worse team. The team you dare not make an honest assessment of is krap Denny. And Palmer is one of many good QBs who ain't Otto Graham and therefore can not win a title for an owner who don't try.

But yea, blame him. CP9 was clearly the problem here.

lulz
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by hailroad View Post
Sounds a lot like our current QB, who's thrown more interceptions and had more overall turnovers than our old QB.

To say he is losing most games is beyond dumb. Their defense is like a wet paper bag and their running game is the worst in the NFL.
if you actually time to watch a Raiders game you would find out that you are dead wrong. Palmer and the Raiders get behind early in most games, not just because of their defense, but also because of a stagnant offense lead by Palmer himself.

The only reason in most games that palmers numbers even look decent is simply because of late garbage yards and meaningless scores. Today against the Saints was no different.

Do yourself a favor...actually watch a Raiders game and not just Monday morning stats, you will seem more knowledgable that way.

Who-Dey!
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: Here's Carson

Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyG2;2691069
[B
The only reason in most games that palmers numbers even look decent is simply because of late garbage yards and meaningless scores. Today against the Saints was no different.[/b]

!

That sounds awfully familiar, can't quite put my finger on it...
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  #14  
Old 11-18-2012, 08:13 PM
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Default Re: Here's Carson

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Originally Posted by savagehenry54 View Post
He's doing nothing different except playing better for a worse team. The team you dare not make an honest assessment of is krap Denny. And Palmer is one of many good QBs who ain't Otto Graham and therefore can not win a title for an owner who don't try.

But yea, blame him. CP9 was clearly the problem here.

lulz
read my prior post, do some research, and please watch a Raiders game and not just stats! You sound silly putting no blame on Palmer and on everyone else. A good QB is judged by one thing...wins. Not stats.

Palmer had one great yer as a Bengal. He won't even have that with the Raiders. I will watch the games, you continue to look at stats and fluff.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: Here's Carson

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Originally Posted by SunsetBengal View Post
That sounds awfully familiar, can't quite put my finger on it...
amen!
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by DennyG2 View Post
read my prior post, do some research, and please watch a Raiders game and not just stats! You sound silly putting no blame on Palmer and on everyone else. A good QB is judged by one thing...wins. Not stats.

Palmer had one great yer as a Bengal. He won't even have that with the Raiders. I will watch the games, you continue to look at stats and fluff.
I have watched some of their games.

Is it your contention that the Raiders have anything less than the worst defense in the league?

Is it your contention that the Raiders have any sort of run game whatsoever?

The same context that I add to Dalton's performance during the four game losing streak, I"m sure you were buying that, cuz it's the Bengals. Add the same context to Palmer's situation, which is clearly much worse than Dalton's cuz the Bengals have a lot more talent overall, and you're going to claim the same logic doesn't fly.

I don't have a singular and entirely homer perspective on the game. I'm consistent. I don't give a hoot if ppl stupidly assess a QB on nothing but his team's won-loss record regardless of how bad every single other facet of that team may be becuz it makes no sense at all.

All I look at is "stats and fluff"???

You're aware that the Raiders OC Greg Knapp is a hack who installed the exact sort of zone blocking scheme that McFadden has never played well in, essentially mitigating the Raiders' best player? Since you watch all the games like a hawk, I'm sure you're aware of that but since you don't like Palmer, you'll conveniently leave that context out of it.

It's an impossible situation and Palmer is all the only positive thing they've got going for them. That's just the truth but becuz he bailed on your Bengals, you'll never give the guy his due. I don't have that problem and neither do others who really know the game.

He's a pretty good QB but like every other good QB not named Peyton, Brady, Rodgers or Brees, he can't carry a god awful team to the playoffs by himself.....Only the very elite guys can do that and even they usually struggle come playoff time i.e. Brady's last two SBs, Dan Marino's whole career, Peytons well noted playoff struggles, John Elway pre-Terrell Davis etc. etc..

Look at Brees and the Saints at 5-5 without Sean Peyton. I suppose Dalton is as good as Brees right? Same record, that's all that matters, that's the only thing by which QBs are judged right? Lulz.

Do you have anything other than the inaccurate assertion that I all I look at is "stats and fluff" with which to refute any of this?




.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:09 PM
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Default Re: Here's Carson

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Originally Posted by ibengals View Post
Carson is having a way better season than he's getting credit for. His offensive line *****, he has no run game, and he's still playing relatively well.

On pace for: 4840 yards, 27 TDs, 16 INTs
The problem with projecting these things out is a lot of these yards and TD's come in garbage time which is common when a team loses by two touchdowns or more. That's not Carson, necessarily. That's a combination of the team itself. Defense and ST play big roles.

Carson's QB rating is pretty much right where it has always statistically been -- about 85.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savagehenry54 View Post
I have watched some of their games.

Is it your contention that the Raiders have anything less than the worst defense in the league?

Is it your contention that the Raiders have any sort of run game whatsoever?

The same context that I add to Dalton's performance during the four game losing streak, I"m sure you were buying that, cuz it's the Bengals. Add the same context to Palmer's situation, which is clearly much worse than Dalton's cuz the Bengals have a lot more talent overall, and you're going to claim the same logic doesn't fly.

I don't have a singular and entirely homer perspective on the game. I'm consistent. I don't give a hoot if ppl stupidly assess a QB on nothing but his team's won-loss record regardless of how bad every single other facet of that team may be becuz it makes no sense at all.

All I look at is "stats and fluff"???

You're aware that the Raiders OC Greg Knapp is a hack who installed the exact sort of zone blocking scheme that McFadden has never played well in, essentially mitigating the Raiders' best player? Since you watch all the games like a hawk, I'm sure you're aware of that but since you don't like Palmer, you'll conveniently leave that context out of it.

It's an impossible situation and Palmer is all the only positive thing they've got going for them. That's just the truth but becuz he bailed on your Bengals, you'll never give the guy his due. I don't have that problem and neither do others who really know the game.

He's a pretty good QB but like every other good QB not named Peyton, Brady, Rodgers or Brees, he can't carry a god awful team to the playoffs by himself.....Only the very elite guys can do that and even they usually struggle come playoff time i.e. Brady's last two SBs, Dan Marino's whole career, Peytons well noted playoff struggles, John Elway pre-Terrell Davis etc. etc..

Look at Brees and the Saints at 5-5 without Sean Peyton. I suppose Dalton is as good as Brees right? Same record, that's all that matters, that's the only thing by which QBs are judged right? Lulz.

Do you have anything other than the inaccurate assertion that I all I look at is "stats and fluff" with which to refute any of this?




.
Dude, after all your babbling, you still blamed everyone but Palmer.

The bottom line is Palmer has a losing record as Bengals QB and as Raiders QB. He has been in the NFL 9 years, it is time to look at him for what he really is...a mediocre QB that loses more than he wins. He gets behind early in games and late, racks up garbage yards which pads some stats. As a bengals fan I can't believe you already don't know this.

While you keep blaming everyone but Palmer in his 9 year career of losing, I will just tell it like it is. Palmer is an average QB, nothing more, nothing less. Face it. In a QB driven league, there is a reason the Raiders are 3-7! By the way, I believe Palmer had another bad day again today against one of the NFL's worst defenses...

I rest my case.


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Old 11-18-2012, 09:24 PM
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The problem with projecting these things out is a lot of these yards and TD's come in garbage time which is common when a team loses by two touchdowns or more. That's not Carson, necessarily. That's a combination of the team itself. Defense and ST play big roles.

Carson's QB rating is pretty much right where it has always statistically been -- about 85.
The last two Raiders games were pretty much over early, and so was the Dolphins game. Their other four losses were not blowouts. Inevitably, some of the stats are going to be "garbage time" but probably not as much as ppl think cuz most NFL games are close and competitive often times even when a bad team plays a good one.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:41 PM
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Dude, after all your babbling, you still blamed everyone but Palmer.

The bottom line is Palmer has a losing record as Bengals QB and as Raiders QB. He has been in the NFL 9 years, it is time to look at him for what he really is...a mediocre QB that loses more than he wins. He gets behind early in games and late, racks up garbage yards which pads some stats. As a bengals fan I can't believe you already don't know this.

While you keep blaming everyone but Palmer in his 9 year career of losing, I will just tell it like it is. Palmer is an average QB, nothing more, nothing less. Face it. In a QB driven league, there is a reason the Raiders are 3-7! By the way, I believe Palmer had another bad day again today against one of the NFL's worst defenses...

I rest my case.


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Like I thought, you've got nothing. Just the same "blame bad teams records on the starting QB" nonsense.

Lulz at "in a QB driven league there is a reason the Raiders are 3-7"....Bw3hwhwaahahahah, oh man, it is to laugh.

So it's your contention that the Raiders putrid defense has squat to do with their record? It's your contention that the Raiders complete lack of a run game and therefore complete inability to run some clock to protect that awful defense has nothing to do with their record?

Palmer is "the reason" they're 3-7??? That's your statement??

Look, I admit that Palmer is not good enough to carry a bad team, what else do you want me to say? You, on the other hand, are trying to put it all on him or at least the vast majority of the blame on him, even though it's obvious to anyone being objective that the Raiders are just a bad team and that Palmer is really the best thing they have going for them.

For goodness sakes they've got a rookie HC who hired an OC that has actually been taken to task by ownership over his ridiculous decision to run a zone scheme that McFadden isn't any good in.

Wanna gloss over the coaching factor too? I'm sure you do, like most, you wanna keep it simple, blame the QB, call it a day, and pass that off as being a knowledgeable fan. So much so that you'll parrot the same cliches and flawed logic rather than even attempt to address the other issues I've pointed out.....You'll just blow all that off, no matter how credible or accurate as "babbling" cuz you've got nothing to counter it with.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by savagehenry54 View Post
Like I thought, you've got nothing. Just the same "blame bad teams records on the starting QB" nonsense.

Lulz at "in a QB driven league there is a reason the Raiders are 3-7"....Bw3hwhwaahahahah, oh man, it is to laugh.

So it's your contention that the Raiders putrid defense has squat to do with their record? It's your contention that the Raiders complete lack of a run game and therefore complete inability to run some clock to protect that awful defense has nothing to do with their record?

Palmer is "the reason" they're 3-7??? That's your statement??

Look, I admit that Palmer is not good enough to carry a bad team, what else do you want me to say? You, on the other hand, are trying to put it all on him or at least the vast majority of the blame on him, even though it's obvious to anyone being objective that the Raiders are just a bad team and that Palmer is really the best thing they have going for them.

For goodness sakes they've got a rookie HC who hired an OC that has actually been taken to task by ownership over his ridiculous decision to run a zone scheme that McFadden isn't any good in.

Wanna gloss over the coaching factor too? I'm sure you do, like most, you wanna keep it simple, blame the QB, call it a day, and pass that off as being a knowledgeable fan. So much so that you'll parrot the same cliches and flawed logic rather than even attempt to address the other issues I've pointed out.....You'll just blow all that off, no matter how credible or accurate as "babbling" cuz you've got nothing to counter it with.
You just don't stop do you? Your like the energizer bunny of the Palmer fan club.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: Here's Carson

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Originally Posted by DennyG2 View Post
Dude, after all your babbling, you still blamed everyone but Palmer.

The bottom line is Palmer has a losing record as Bengals QB and as Raiders QB. He has been in the NFL 9 years, it is time to look at him for what he really is...a mediocre QB that loses more than he wins. He gets behind early in games and late, racks up garbage yards which pads some stats. As a bengals fan I can't believe you already don't know this.

While you keep blaming everyone but Palmer in his 9 year career of losing, I will just tell it like it is. Palmer is an average QB, nothing more, nothing less. Face it. In a QB driven league, there is a reason the Raiders are 3-7! By the way, I believe Palmer had another bad day again today against one of the NFL's worst defenses...

I rest my case.


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You do realize that you could replace Palmer with Lewis and it would pretty much be spot on...(among other obvious things like QB for coach...etc)

The Saints D has actually been playing quite well during their win streak, but they probably **** because it's not like they beat the only undefeated team in the league or anything...nevermind I guess that would have been all Matt Ryan's fault too.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:13 AM
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I lothe Carson Palmer as much as any sports figure that isn't named Ben Roethlisberger, Chris Carpenter, or Tony LaRussa, but you have to admit that Palmer is putting up some damned good stats this year, and he's playing better ball than he has in 4-5 years. If the Raiders had any sort of decent defense at all, they would be right in the middle of a playoff race. If that happened, it would be attributed to Carson Palmer in the same was as the losing is attributed to him now.

It could be a tough matchup this week. I just want to see the Bengals win it.....not because it's against Palmer's new team, but because they need to win. Beating Palmer would just be a little bonus at this point. If the Bengals were more along the lines of 7-3 or 8-2, I would be much more focused on hoping that Palmer falls on his face....
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:10 AM
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You just don't stop do you? Your like the energizer bunny of the Palmer fan club.
Do you have anything to counter the points I made? You realize you're like the one millionth person who, rather consider the points of the debate, just sling some insult or other. You and others do this, because you have diddly squat with which to counter my take on it.

Rather than acknowledge that often times a bad team is bad for reasons other than the QB, ppl just willfully ignore the facts in favor of keeping it simple. It makes it easy for them.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:28 AM
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Default Re: Here's Carson

-The Raiders have the WORST defense in the NFL, and there is no disputing that. They've given up over 30 points in 6/10 weeks, and haven't held a team to <14points this season(45ppg the last 3 weeks). No QB could overcome that.

-Their run game is almost non-existant.
In the loss to TB, 22 total rushing yards. 22
In the loss to Balt., 72 total rushing yards, zero tds.
They have the 31st ranked rushing offense, and only have 3rushing TDs; one of which was by Palmer.

-Also, the crop of WRs they have are either:
A) Injured
B )Not-so-great rookies
Heyward-Bey is injured(again), but even when healthy he drops balls quite often. I would say Criner(4th rounder), and Moore are his best receiving threats at the position; that's not saying much.
3-4 times this season a running back has been the leading receiver. That shouldn't happen that often.


With all that said, Palmer is still throwing P6s, and he doesn't have a winning record. However, would you expect much different from someone else in the same situation? Like Savage said, it's all about context. If the Raiders had a better team, Palmer would also be performing better, and winning more games.
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