Carson Palmer.........Wasted Victories

[Treee]

Originally Posted by BengalUSCfan

Nope.

Each NFL player is his own businessman and his own franchise. I'm not nearly as upset at Carson for leaving as I am that he never thanked the fans of Cincinnati for their support.

Extremely poor public relations with a "market" he just wrote off and abandoned. I think every fan who owns a Palmer jersey or who hated the Steelers for that late hit should be appalled that Carson didn't think enough of the Cincinnati fans to at least thank them for their support and explain that he just needed to move on. It was easier for the coward to just hunker down on the left coast and ignore them.

I hope he reaps what he sowed. Massive boo'ing.

TJ is right however, that we ended up better for his departure, but that certainly wasn't Carson's intent. And I'm a USC fan...

I can agree with this post. What Carson did in itself was not low character. However, how the face of a franchise for almost a decade just packed up and moved on without so much as a word of thanks to the fans, was pretty upsetting.

[bradfritz21]

It's the principle of the matter, regardless of how it worked out.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by Treee

I don't understand how people can feel as strongly about Mike Brown as they do and call Carson a quitter or bash him for leaving the team. Seems hypocritical to me.

Well for those that criticize Brown I guess it would mean they do not approve of our current team. As many have stated he is the owner and the buck stops with him so I would think he holds as much say as anyone in this current young cast.

As for Carson he had the chance to be a part of this youth movement and exciting young core (glad he isn't as I prefer the leadership of young Andy) . However he turned his back on the team and the city.

I agree with not booing in the fact that he does not deserve that much attention. It only feeds the hype high he is not worthy of. He is nothing but another QB on another team that is in our way. Nothing more nothing less.

[Nickslycat]

I have been practicing my booing to increase my stamina. I do not want to go hoarse in the first quarter, I want to be able to boo the quitter as loud in the fourth quarter, as in the first.

[D.Boon]

First of all, Happy Thanksgiving!

I'd say I'd disagree in the sense that fans should do what they want to do. If you want to boo carson, then you should boo carson.

Personally, I wouldn't boo him. I think we should all be grateful for Carson. Not because he was a great QB, but because no individual did more to change the culture of the Bengals than Carson. I beleive that Carson's actions led Mike Brown to examine his model. If nothing else it forced Mike Brown to realize that it was not 2005 anymore. The core of Carson and Chad wasn't taking this team anywhere. If Carson sits back, collects his huge paycheck he is definitely still the QB. Chad might still be here. There was speculation that Bratkowski was fired and Green drafted as a way to throw a bone to Carson. So if nothing else, Carson forced MB to 'blow it up'and start from scratch. he also yielded mid first and what will likely be a high second round pick for the pleasure of doing so.

So if you like the direction the Bengals have taken during the past two years, thank Carson.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by BengalUSCfan

Nope.

Each NFL player is his own businessman and his own franchise. I'm not nearly as upset at Carson for leaving as I am that he never thanked the fans of Cincinnati for their support.

Extremely poor public relations with a "market" he just wrote off and abandoned. I think every fan who owns a Palmer jersey or who hated the Steelers for that late hit should be appalled that Carson didn't think enough of the Cincinnati fans to at least thank them for their support and explain that he just needed to move on. It was easier for the coward to just hunker down on the left coast and ignore them.

I hope he reaps what he sowed. Massive boo'ing.

TJ is right however, that we ended up better for his departure, but that certainly wasn't Carson's intent. And I'm a USC fan...

This. An explanation would be nice, but an apology to the fans would've sufficed. He could've taken an ad out in the paper op something. Another thing, in a story on bengals.com, Carson was asked what he had to say to Cincy fans that thought he quit on them and his teammates.

He said he disagrees that he quit on the team and fans because he told Mike Brown immediately after the season where he stood. I don't get it. Is he saying he didn't quit on his team and the fans because he asked to leave early in the offseason? That makes no sense.

[Lygraf]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

An explanation would be nice, but an apology to the fans was necessary*.

This is really all it comes down to for me.

[TommyC]

I think the play of our team would speak volumes for us if we could get 3-4 sacks and a pick 6 or 2 off of C.P.
To me personally the numbers he has put up in his career has come off of pure talent and they could have been better if it wasn't for bad decisions and lack of leadership qualities when it came to running the team. But I all so think a lot of his troubles here stemmed from 85 who seemed to have his own agenda sometimes but other times he seemed like it was all about team.
I'm just glad that era is over now.

[BengalsRocker]

Grateful? C'mon man.

It's not like Carson decided to come here and be our savior.

He was drafted. We were not chosen by him.

If he sukked from the beginning he would have been benched and we would have been looking for someone else.

Like many on here have said. It's a business. Carson was the product.

Carson just decided he'd pull himself from the shelf.

That's okay. There were enough fans that felt his value was on the decline here anyway.

Look ahead people. Carson is no longer a product of Cincy. He made sure of that.

Hopefully we can field a complete team in the near future and make some playoff noise or perhaps a SB appearance.

Not like the CP9 era teams that would occasionaly have an above .500 season and get bumped out in the 1st round. Maybe we can have the D this era to go with the likes of Dalton/Green and company.

[pdub2005]

Originally Posted by BengalUSCfan

Nope.

Each NFL player is his own businessman and his own franchise. I'm not nearly as upset at Carson for leaving as I am that he never thanked the fans of Cincinnati for their support.

Extremely poor public relations with a "market" he just wrote off and abandoned. I think every fan who owns a Palmer jersey or who hated the Steelers for that late hit should be appalled that Carson didn't think enough of the Cincinnati fans to at least thank them for their support and explain that he just needed to move on. It was easier for the coward to just hunker down on the left coast and ignore them.

I hope he reaps what he sowed. Massive boo'ing.

TJ is right however, that we ended up better for his departure, but that certainly wasn't Carson's intent. And I'm a USC fan...

I 100% agree with this, so many of us sang carson tunes, even after his worst games. We flooded the stadium from 2003 to 2011 with Carson jerseys. Even Chad in 2008 still professed his love for the city and the fans, but just said it was time for him to go. Carson gave me hope on sundays, and for that I thank him, but we deserve a little thanks for all the times we backed him.

[rfaulk34]

Fans booed loudly when Carson passed the 20,000 yard milestone, threw trash in his yard and had words with his wife in public. How many other instances haven't been reported?

The three previously noted instances would be enough for me to say "eff you" to fans if i worked hard and sacrificed my body to make the team better but didn't feel the organization was doing enough.

I'm not a fan of the dude anymore because, as someone who supported him and wanted him around, it ****** me off when he just quit. I can only imagine how players who stuck it out feel about him. But the thought that he "owes the fans an apology" makes me LOL.

http://www.sfgate.com/raiders/articl...er-4058764.php
Here's your apology and some advice from your coach.

"I'm glad the way it worked out and I'm glad for the Bengals," Palmer said. "I'm glad for the players and the fans. They're a great team going on the next 5-12 years. They've got a great young quarterback and they're in a great place."

Lewis thinks, or maybe just hopes, that some Bengals fans will applaud for Palmer.
"Carson did a lot for this organization and city and he won two division championships when he was here, and that's huge, so I think it'll be somewhat mixed," he said. "People always get their feelings hurt, and unfortunately this is professional sports and sometimes things happen like that."

[bfine32]

Folks (including TJ) have it twisted. We should not thank CP9, we should thank Hue Jackson and the Raiders front office. Without that ridiculous trade offer out of despiration CP9 simply woulda returned to So. Cal. and left us high and dry, with not so much as a word. CP9 didn't do jack but refuse to play for us; however, in some twisted logic we should thank him. He is NOT on my thankful list for today, buy you all are.


HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!

[CornerBlitz]

I was the biggest supporter of Carson, in fact I thought he would bring us multiple superbowls when I saw just how gifted he was.

If I was at the game I'd boo him till i lost my voice. The dude is a quitter, there is no way to flip it. I understand the Bengals aren't a great franchise, and I am always critical of the front office and ownership but you can't just quit. It would be like me as a fan saying, I'm done guys i will start rooting for the 49ers. It just doesn't work like that. Carson will forever be remembered as a quitter. Yes he did give his all while he was here, but in the end he quit.......and that is the lasting memory i have of him.

[crispy]

Originally Posted by bfine32

Folks (including TJ) have it twisted. We should not thank CP9, we should thank Hue Jackson and the Raiders front office. Without that ridiculous trade offer out of despiration CP9 simply woulda returned to So. Cal. and left us high and dry, with not so much as a word. CP9 didn't do jack but refuse to play for us; however, in some twisted logic we should thank him. He is NOT on my thankful list for today, buy you all are.


HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!

Won't thank him but I'm happy the way it turned out for us. But I won't boo him because I completely understand his reasoning for wanting out of this organization and I believe when the face of the franchise did what he did the front office questioned whether they are as effed up as everyone says they are and caused them to look at how to do things different. I still think it's still all about money to MB but it appears as if he is listening to others or releasing some of the control to other in the operation of the team. Carson did a lot to take the team out of the cellar when he was drafted but I believe his biggest contribution to this team to make them better long term was when he "quit" on the team.

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

I was the biggest supporter of Carson, in fact I thought he would bring us multiple superbowls when I saw just how gifted he was.

If I was at the game I'd boo him till i lost my voice. The dude is a quitter, there is no way to flip it. I understand the Bengals aren't a great franchise, and I am always critical of the front office and ownership but you can't just quit. It would be like me as a fan saying, I'm done guys i will start rooting for the 49ers. It just doesn't work like that. Carson will forever be remembered as a quitter. Yes he did give his all while he was here, but in the end he quit.......and that is the lasting memory i have of him.

Mirrors my thoughts exactly. And there's nothing there that makes me feel he owes anyone an apology. Unless you're female. They typically need apologies.

He quit. Selfishly left his team mates in the foxhole to die. It doesn't get any more 'me first' than that.

Apology? lol Stuff the apology "in a very uncomfortable place".

[BengalsRocker]

Originally Posted by rfaulk34

Fans booed loudly when Carson passed the 20,000 yard milestone, threw trash in his yard and had words with his wife in public.

You don't think some of this stuff happens to other up and down QBs?

I bet Phillip Rivers begs to differ.

Plus you are talking about some fans. Not all fans.

As time would tell yardage stats don't make the champion. That milestone was just that. A personal achievement.

Faulk I'm not trying to downplay his contributions. It's just normal for some fans to not acknowledge(and yes boo)them when the team is not winning.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by rfaulk34

Fans booed loudly when Carson passed the 20,000 yard milestone, threw trash in his yard and had words with his wife in public. How many other instances haven't been reported?

The three previously noted instances would be enough for me to say "eff you" to fans if i worked hard and sacrificed my body to make the team better but didn't feel the organization was doing enough.

I'm not a fan of the dude anymore because, as someone who supported him and wanted him around, it ****** me off when he just quit. I can only imagine how players who stuck it out feel about him. But the thought that he "owes the fans an apology" makes me LOL.

http://www.sfgate.com/raiders/articl...er-4058764.php
Here's your apology and some advice from your coach.

"I'm glad the way it worked out and I'm glad for the Bengals," Palmer said. "I'm glad for the players and the fans. They're a great team going on the next 5-12 years. They've got a great young quarterback and they're in a great place."

Lewis thinks, or maybe just hopes, that some Bengals fans will applaud for Palmer.
"Carson did a lot for this organization and city and he won two division championships when he was here, and that's huge, so I think it'll be somewhat mixed," he said. "People always get their feelings hurt, and unfortunately this is professional sports and sometimes things happen like that."

Rfaulk, I respect you but I disagree with you here. It's not so much that we deserve an apology, it's just that it would've been a nice gesture on his part. How many Bengals fans are there? 500k maybe? How many of those fans insulted his wife or (allegedly) threw trash on his lawn?

Now how many cheered for him, supported him, bought his jerseys etc? The vast majority of fans were very kind to him, so an apology would've been nice. He didn't leave because of the fans. You're fooling yourself if you believe that.

Btw, love how you say it's womanly to want an apology, yet it's okay to quit your job because some random person throwing some garbage on your lawn. Now that would be pretty womanly imo.

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by BengalsRocker

You don't think some of this stuff happens to other up and down QBs?

I bet Phillip Rivers begs to differ.

Plus you are talking about some fans. Not all fans.

As time would tell yardage stats don't make the champion. That milestone was just that. A personal achievement.

Faulk I'm not trying to downplay his contributions. It's just normal for some fans to not acknowledge(and yes boo)them when the team is not winning.

No doubt about it. I don't have an issue with fans expressing themselves. I do have a bit of a problem with fans expressing themselves in a misguided way.

Think about it for a minute. Do you think Carson ever shortchanged the Bengals before he quit? Watch Hard Knocks to see how hard he worked.

Booing when it was announced that he just passed 20,000 yards is heaping all the anger for the teams performance over the years on him. That was a personal milestone and fans chose to boo that even though the defense over the years didn't do much to help the Bengals, among several other facets of the team. If you're the QB on the field and that happens, aren't you a little ****** and wondering why everything is being dumped on you? What about the defense being a sieve? What about all the diva WRs? What about the scores of guys on the Police blotter? What about the front office and its archaic ways, up to that point?

Throwing trash on someones lawn or confronting family in public is over the line, no ifs ands or buts about it.

I'm not sticking up for Palmer in the least. I've stated plenty of times i think he's a quitter and i have no "thanks" for what happened as a result of him leaving. Yes, the Bengals were fortunate in what turned out after he left but there was no way to predict that's what was going to happen. So i don't give him credit for actively helping the Bengals out. It was just fortunate to work out that way in the end.

I just don't get fans sense of entitlement that he owes them anything. At all. Looking at it objectively, he went on the field and got either booed or cheered for his performance. Even Steven to me. Then he took his ball and went home. To me, that doesn't result in the need for an apology or a thanks, it results in a 'that's the way you want it? Eff you too, then'. But that's just me.

If someone wants an apology or a thanks, so be it. But i'll never believe it's deserved in this case.

[nevergonnachange]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Well for those that criticize Brown I guess it would mean they do not approve of our current team. As many have stated he is the owner and the buck stops with him so I would think he holds as much say as anyone in this current young cast.

You do realize that in a lot of cities, a .500 team hoping to snag the final playoff spot wouldn't be a huge cause for celebration, right? Maybe you're happy with the Mike Brown 40 Year Plan to Win a Playoff Game but I aim higher.

Originally Posted by CornerBlitz

The dude is a quitter, there is no way to flip it. I understand the Bengals aren't a great franchise, and I am always critical of the front office and ownership but you can't just quit. It would be like me as a fan saying, I'm done guys i will start rooting for the 49ers. It just doesn't work like that.

But he's NOT a fan, he's a player; they're totally different animals. He wasn't going to win here and he knew it. He's also not going to win where he's at but that's his problem. I honestly question the desire to win of anyone who re-signs here.

[BengalsRocker]

Originally Posted by rfaulk34

No doubt about it. I don't have an issue with fans expressing themselves. I do have a bit of a problem with fans expressing themselves in a misguided way.

Think about it for a minute. Do you think Carson ever shortchanged the Bengals before he quit? Watch Hard Knocks to see how hard he worked.

Booing when it was announced that he just passed 20,000 yards is heaping all the anger for the teams performance over the years on him. That was a personal milestone and fans chose to boo that even though the defense over the years didn't do much to help the Bengals, among several other facets of the team. If you're the QB on the field and that happens, aren't you a little ****** and wondering why everything is being dumped on you? What about the defense being a sieve? What about all the diva WRs? What about the scores of guys on the Police blotter? What about the front office and its archaic ways, up to that point?

Throwing trash on someones lawn or confronting family in public is over the line, no ifs ands or buts about it.

I'm not sticking up for Palmer in the least. I've stated plenty of times i think he's a quitter and i have no "thanks" for what happened as a result of him leaving. Yes, the Bengals were fortunate in what turned out after he left but there was no way to predict that's what was going to happen. So i don't give him credit for actively helping the Bengals out. It was just fortunate to work out that way in the end.

I just don't get fans sense of entitlement that he owes them anything. At all. Looking at it objectively, he went on the field and got either booed or cheered for his performance. Even Steven to me. Then he took his ball and went home. To me, that doesn't result in the need for an apology or a thanks, it results in a 'that's the way you want it? Eff you too, then'. But that's just me.

If someone wants an apology or a thanks, so be it. But i'll never believe it's deserved in this case.

I get where you are coming from.

No love from both sides = no apologies from anyone

Neither fans nor CP should expect them.

[goalpost]

I can boo him because he is on the other team. I hope he is sacked, sore and the losing QB Monday.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by nevergonnachange

You do realize that in a lot of cities, a .500 team hoping to snag the final playoff spot wouldn't be a huge cause for celebration, right? Maybe you're happy with the Mike Brown 40 Year Plan to Win a Playoff Game but I aim higher.




But he's NOT a fan, he's a player; they're totally different animals. He wasn't going to win here and he knew it. He's also not going to win where he's at but that's his problem. I honestly question the desire to win of anyone who re-signs here.

I do not dwell on the past. Maybe some counseling could help you move on from it. I prefer to look at the here and now and here and now we have a bright young nucleus of players that are about the team and winning.

You are right in that he would not win here because he does not have the heart to make a difference. A stark contrast to the young man at the helm now. You are right again in that he won't win where he is now either and for the same reasons.

People that use the "happy with Brown, .500, mediocrity, etc. argument are laughable. I support this team period. I will not hold the young players here and now responsible for the mistakes of the past.

[Storm]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Well for those that criticize Brown I guess it would mean they do not approve of our current team.

Thats doesn't make sense, Mike Brown robbed fans and taxpayers for years, just because he has had some recent moderate success does not erase the years of torture

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

Rfaulk, I respect you but I disagree with you here. It's not so much that we deserve an apology, it's just that it would've been a nice gesture on his part. How many Bengals fans are there? 500k maybe? How many of those fans insulted his wife or (allegedly) threw trash on his lawn?

Now how many cheered for him, supported him, bought his jerseys etc? The vast majority of fans were very kind to him, so an apology would've been nice. He didn't leave because of the fans. You're fooling yourself if you believe that.

Btw, love how you say it's womanly to want an apology, yet it's okay to quit your job because some random person throwing some garbage on your lawn. Now that would be pretty womanly imo.

Well, the womanly part was just a tongue-in-cheek jab. That's why i put the ninja in there. It wasn't meant in a mean-spirited way. And between the two--apology and quitting-- Carson is way on the short end of the stick there.

I agree with what you're saying. There's no doubt at all that there were plenty of fans that were on his side, supporting him through thick and thin. I was right there up until he quit. I don't know what percentage of fan reaction helped his decision to leave. I do know that standing on the field with 60,000 fans booing an accomplishment-- essentially heaping all the displeasure on you-- leaves a lasting impression.

During the last hour i've decided to officially change my position on this, slightly. He probably should have, at some point, said something like "there are a lot of fans out there that supported me through all the tough times and for that i thank you", but he didn't so that probably speaks louder about his feelings than anything. But to me, any NFL player that works as hard as they do and sacrifices their body the way they do, doesn't "owe" anything to anyone. (that's obviously directed at anyone that feels they are owed something)

Fans choose to support and spend their money. Then they're free to express their feelings on that investment. That's where it stops. But a "nice gesture"? Sure, i agree with that completely.

[M.W.]

Unless he has changed astronomically over the last two seasons I agree that if he is pressured he will buckle and make horrible decisions/throws and we should win.