Carson Palmer.........Wasted Victories

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by Dabo614

some of you fans are selfish.

Ill explain.

Put yourselves in his shoes.

You are a heisman trophy winner,,,a top draft pick,,you pulled out 3 great seasons in the NFL,,,,HOWEVER,,,your stuck with diva "me first" attitude players,,,a dumb coach,,,and a dumber owner,,,a lousy defense,,,and your oline has regressed for several seasons leading you to multiple injuries.

WHY IN THE HELL WOULD YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO STAY???????

You are selfish cause you wanted him to stay,,,but what would you have thought/done in his shoes? Would you have stayed KNOWING nothing will change,,,risking further injuries and nothing to show for it? If you would,,,your a moron.

The knee injury occurred waiting for a deep route to open. You could argue that had he checked down it would have never happened. Not something you can completely lay on the oline.

The elbow injury occurred on a safety blitz of which it was not the responsibility of an olineman to pick up. Again not the fault of the oline but nice try.

Yep the ownership was dumb enough to make him the highest paid player in the league at the time of his signing. I have heard it rumored that the me first players were already on their way out, a decision the dumb coach and dumber owner had already made, when he made his decision.

It was as well rumored that Brat was already on his way out but they were already committed to coaching the senior bowl so the move was not made until after they were done.

Not that it matters because we are better off without him. So changes were already in motion to once again appease Palmer. Just like when they got TO because of his suggestion. You are right in that Mike was dumb to cater to Palmer.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by D.Boon

Under this logic should we boo the Bengals for cutting Antonio Bryant? Afterall, they made an obligation to him via contract..and you should always honor a contract, right?

LMAO.....read back this response was already predicted.

You have heard of the CBA correct? That is the Collective Bargaining Agreement. In this agreement the grounds for which a player can be cut and or traded by a team are laid out. They are agreed upon by the players. Thereby basically making them apart of any NFL contract unless something as a no trade clause is made as an addendum to the contract.

So when making a move within the agreed upon requirements then the team is acting within their contractual rights.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by nevergonnachange

Far and away the most intelligent response I've ever read from you. For future reference, when someone brings up a point you can't refute, either ignore it or try being a man and saying, "You are correct."



For the 1,000,000th time: retiring (or 'retiring' as Palmer did it) is just as legal a way of breaking a deal. If it wasn't, Mikey Boy would've been sued him. Since you don't care if the team cuts Joe Blow, you're fine with it. For some reason, Palmer refusing to play for the Bengals hurts your feelings so he's a bad guy.

Why are you so angry at Palmer? Stop living in the past. Isn't that your advice for anyone who isn't in the Mikey Boy fan club?

Not angry at Palmer at all but nice assumption. As I have stated it is a non issue to me. I do not think he should be booed as that only lends credence to the hype. I am much happier without Palmer. That however does not change him quitting.

When did Palmer retire? Did he file his paperwork with the league office? Do not believe he did. So until such a point he was quitting. Put powdered sugar on a turn and it is still a turd.

You are correct I am fine with a team operating within the contractual guidelines agreed upon by them and the players. I would not be fine with a team acting in a breech of contract and would expect the appropriate actions to be taken. Has nothing to do with Mike Brown or anyone else.

[djam]

I just remember sticking by his side from a fan perspective long after his play started to decline. I just 'knew' he would come back and wanted to support that. Then he just kind of vanished when he wanted traded or he'll quit. I still stuck with him at first tho, thinking he'd either come around, or at least say something to the fans. But time passed and nothing. It's like he hid from what other more respectable players would face up to. That's weak. Now I think he is just another self-entitled NFL player who lacks character. He's a talented dude for sure, and he's very good off-field and politically correct and all that. But it was weak of him to carry things out the way he did. I hope we play him this time only, and beat the living crap out of him and his team. I'm ready to put him in the rear view mirror for good.

[djam]

Whatever "extra" emotion we may have this week that could make our fans louder, and our players play harder, if we execute it this week the next step is to figure out how to harness it every week, even if we're not playing a former franchise player.

[Lygraf]

Originally Posted by shaolinghost

Would you risk millions to placate a fan base of a team you no longer play for?

A resounding yes here. Given the circumstances.

We believed in him.

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by Lygraf

A resounding yes here. Given the circumstances.

We believed in him.

Just looked it up: He got a $15 million dollar signing bonus on 2/16/06. Let's say his NW was the $80 million it was rumored to be, he'd be risking almost 20% of his NW to explain to fans what they probably already knew:
Mike Brown is a bad owner, bad GM, stubborn, and puts personal pride and money above winning.

I don't know about you, but unless I'm a billionaire, I'm not giving up 8 figures for anyone other than immediate family.

WTS, I understand how people feel, and I would like to know exactly why he left too. However, I'm not gonna ask him to sacrifice a substantial amount of his money just so I can get a little piece of mind.

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

Has everyone on the boards ever completely agreed about anything (other than the firing of Bratkowski)?

BJGE being a bad feature back? I think that's something everyone here can agree on.

Originally Posted by OSUfan

When did Palmer retire? Did he file his paperwork with the league office? Do not believe he did. So until such a point he was quitting. Put powdered sugar on a turn and it is still a turd.

He held out, stating he would retire if not traded before the deadline. Mike traded him to the Raiders, so Palmer never had the chance to retire. Nothing Palmer did was illegal, so it's impossible for him to have been in breach of his contract. Otherwise, and you can bet your life on this, Mike Brown would have sued Carson.

Instead of grasping for a technicality to not like Palmer, just say you don't like what he did morally and leave it at that.

[BengalRugby]

Why make the stadium loud now? It wasn't loud when he was here. If I remember right, that was one of his comments, no home field advantage and the fans didn't know when to cheer. Or maybe Black Jesus said that, or both?


Hue Jackson has Palmer and the Raider's number, and since he is with the Bengals now, I expect a blow out. If it isn't a one sided victory, especially with the Raiders using their FB instead of McFadden, then the coaching staff need hung from the highest tree. This should be a very dominant game for the Bengals, and there is no excuse for falling short of completely one sided game.


So keep the stadium dull, as it was most of the time Carson was in town. But who am I fooling, as Bengals fans don't know when to cheer and when to be quiet...


per Palmer and BJ...

[09itsourtime]

Hes already nervous. Hes coming to a place he lived, and played for 10 years, the fans that cheered him on will be booing him louder than hes ever been booed. Hes already rattled and he isnt even in Ohio yet.

I will be at the stadium booing the crap out of him, and will be extremely loud every 3rd down like always.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by shaolinghost

BJGE being a bad feature back? I think that's something everyone here can agree on.



He held out, stating he would retire if not traded before the deadline. Mike traded him to the Raiders, so Palmer never had the chance to retire. Nothing Palmer did was illegal, so it's impossible for him to have been in breach of his contract. Otherwise, and you can bet your life on this, Mike Brown would have sued Carson.

Instead of grasping for a technicality to not like Palmer, just say you don't like what he did morally and leave it at that.

There was no grasp at a technicality. I would suggest reading the entire discussion first. There was the suggestion that he retired. I simply refuted this point when in fact he did not retire.

He did not have time to retire? Okay ....I guess.

I as well never stated he breached his contract. I would appreciate you showing me where I stated this since you want to participate. The entire discussion was brought on by the lame point continually made about teams cutting players. Lame because it is within their agreement to do so under terms.

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by mars304

Was he sacrificing his body and working his butt off? Yes. Was he getting paid millions of dollars to do it? Oh yeah. They are being paid to do a job, so forgive me for thinking he should owe the fans something. Like an explanation or apology. It's like with Twinkies going out of business, how would you feel if they didn't even tell you why? At least if you have a definitive explanation it gives you a bit of closure. Right now all we have is speculation as to why he left. Was it us? Was it management? A combination of both?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

Like i said earlier, i'm not defending him. I'm trying to put myself in an NFL players shoes. I bust my butt, not because i make millions of dollars but because i love playing the game. Then i'm standing out on the field and my home town fans are booing when it's announced that i passed the 20,000 yard mark. They're booing a personal accomplishment because they're ****** at the team and what they've been through as fans for 20 years. That's personal, misguided anger at one player, heaping everything on him, when the FO and team have done more than their fair share of screwing things up. On top of that, management wants nothing to do with any of my ideas on how to improve the team.

It's nice that everyone thinks they'd handle it better than Carson did, but i wonder how many actually would have under those circumstances.

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by mars304

That's like saying it's ok to hate all Christians because of how horrible the westboro Baptist church is. Not everyone threw trash on his lawn, or booed him at that game. And honestly, people were more upset that we were blowing the game than with his personal achievement.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

No it's not because i've never said it was ok.

Apparently enough people did enough to make him quit. Fans and organization.

And i'm about done debating this because i don't like the feeling that i'm defending him when i'm not. He quit on his team mates. That's not acceptable in any case.

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by bfine32

So.... doesn't his leaving make him selfish?

Yes. Selfishness all around.

[Howard Power]

Will we see Carsons signature move the "pick 6" this Sunday? Just for old times sake...

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by Howard Power

Will we see Carsons signature move the "pick 6" this Sunday? Just for old times sake...

I, for one, am just glad i get to see another Carson thread...

[nevergonnachange]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Not angry at Palmer at all but nice assumption. As I have stated it is a non issue to me. I do not think he should be booed as that only lends credence to the hype. I am much happier without Palmer. That however does not change him quitting.

When did Palmer retire? Did he file his paperwork with the league office? Do not believe he did. So until such a point he was quitting. Put powdered sugar on a turn and it is still a turd.

You are correct I am fine with a team operating within the contractual guidelines agreed upon by them and the players. I would not be fine with a team acting in a breech of contract and would expect the appropriate actions to be taken. Has nothing to do with Mike Brown or anyone else.

You do realize that Palmer isn't under any obligation to abide by your arbitrary schedule, right? He played his cards to his advantage, much like a team owner would do when threatening to leave town unless he gets a new stadium. Palmer didn't breech his contract so you should have no problem with what he did.

[HellMarine]

Well, it's not his signature move this year, it's Dalton's.

I think the Bengals could get a pick against him, though. The DLine has been playing out of their mind lately. Harass him and force him to make mistakes.

[Aquapod770]

Originally Posted by rfaulk34

I, for one, am just glad i get to see another Carson thread...

I was just thinking we should have a new one...

[Mike M (the other one)]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

Where you find that quote?

it was in Today's Paper.

"I have seen guys, run into guys back in San Diego, talked, texted. I think that anybody that's ever played for that ownership knows what I was doing and why I was doing it." Palmer said.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...nclick_check=1

I just now looked at the OP's post. In it TJ says this:

"I don't know what Carson was promised, in terms of them keeping certain players or going after other players to get better, but I think he came to the conclusion that they weren't holding up their end," Houshmandzadeh said. "I think his attitude was, 'They're not giving it their all like I'm giving it my all.' The organization probably felt, 'We're giving it our all —under our parameters.'

So they are both saying the same basic thing.

[BengalsRocker]

Originally Posted by Mike M (the other one)

it was in Today's Paper.

"I have seen guys, run into guys back in San Diego, talked, texted. I think that anybody that's ever played for that ownership knows what I was doing and why I was doing it." Palmer said.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...nclick_check=1

I just now looked at the OP's post. In it TJ says this:

"I don't know what Carson was promised, in terms of them keeping certain players or going after other players to get better, but I think he came to the conclusion that they weren't holding up their end," Houshmandzadeh said. "I think his attitude was, 'They're not giving it their all like I'm giving it my all.' The organization probably felt, 'We're giving it our all —under our parameters.'

So they are both saying the same basic thing.

Yeah TJ probably was alluding to himself. I liked TJ as a player but he still holds himself in very high regards. Even to this day. I'd be surprised if he didn't talk in the 3rd person.

Maybe if his work ethic hadn't slacked off and he would've signed an acceptable contract here... he wouldn't be sniffling about lost opportunities and days gone by.

He found out the hard way he wasn't the #1 receiver unless other players drew coverage away from him.

Great on Bengals... meh on other teams and that's being nice.

[Mike M (the other one)]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

Has everyone on the boards ever completely agreed about anything (other than the firing of Bratkowski)?

That's not true either.
I know I was against the firing of Brat (and maybe Fred was as well).
I wanted ML gone because I think he is the reason this offense couldn't flourish the way it was setup. ML wants it to be a Running team and it was setup as a Passing team.

Remember those times when CP would look to the sidelines and throw his hands up because ML and Brat would be arguing over what play to call in.

Now answer this, with Brat gone for 2 years now, are we still seeing some of those bone head plays that we always complained about when Brat was here?

[BigPapaKain]

I think I see the horse twitching - we should beat it some more. It's not quite dead enough...

[Vikairius]

[BigPapaKain]

Originally Posted by bradfritz21

After over a decade of losing, you'll have to excuse the fans for being upset at losing, and maybe all the boos weren't directed solely towards Palmer, but rather the situation.

You act like they could never leave the house or they'd have a mob of people insulting them. What percentage of fans did that? .000001%?

We're the ones who dumped millions of dollars into his pockets, though.

The franchise had turned a corner and was obviously becoming respectable, but then he leaves what he helped build and almost destroys it all, which would cause us to rebuild again?

Look, I love Palmer for what he did for us, but he did us dirty with the way he quit on us.


Franchises cut players when they're underperforming- not living up to their contracts- but they still have to pay them whatever is guaranteed in the contract.

Franchises can't and don't screw players like Palmer screwed us.

Franchises have to live up to their word and so should players.

He didn't come here willingly; he was brought in as a rookie and he signed an extension when things were worth sticking around for - then the rug got pulled out from under Palmer and the Bengals and the fan base. The O-line fell apart - the Bengals replaced Richie Braham with Eric Gheicheck(sp?); really?! The wide receivers got heads bigger than their production - that's why TJ walked and his career fizzled. After that, it was a revolving door of potential #2's that never panned out (Laverneus Coles, Antonio Bryant, T.O.) and useless draft picks. Then the injuries - let me shred your knee and see if you don't flinch every time someone flicks it, much less having 300 pounds of human mac truck trying to crush you every damn time you step out on that field. For the fans to take 20 years of futility out on ONE player - not only one player, but the one player who brought them a semblance of hope - is just plain unfair.

It's not about the percentage of fans - it's about the actions of that fraction of a percent. Not all Germans were horrible Jew killing Nazis, but it was enough to make an entire generation of people hate Germans. Christ, as a man of German decent people often refer to me as a Nazi in order to annoy me.

Nobody forces us, as fans, to pour money in to anyone's pockets. Mike Brown and Carson Palmer didn't hold a gun to your or your loved ones telling you to hand over your money - you willingly went out and bought tickets and jerseys. Being mad that Palmer took that money is like me being mad at the guy working the drive-thru window at Wendy's because the guy making my food screwed everything up, but I didn't realize it until I got home and ate half of it.

He didn't do us dirty - he did Mike Brown dirty, and good on him for doing that. It's not like the Bengals have descended back into the dark ages a la 1994 because Palmer bailed. If anything, it was the catalyst the ownership needed to pull their collective heads out of their *****.

As I said before or in another thread - if Palmer slapped all of us in the face, how come only some of us can't let it go?