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  #26  
Old 11-24-2012, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Just Curious.

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Originally Posted by NATI BENGALS View Post
I'm not worried about my credibility standing with the guy who thinks MJ will be non-existent in 14 games this year.

MJ is the most consistent thing we have had at DE since Justin Smith left. And to think that we can easily replace the man who plays the most snaps on our DL, which is the strength of our D, is ludicrous.

If we lose MJ and replace him with a guy like Vernon Gholston, Derrick Harvey, Aaron Maybin, Jarvis Moss, or Derrick Morgan our D will suffer big time.
What if we replace him with JPP, Jared Allen, Justin Tuck, Julius Peppers, Mario Williams, JJ Watt?
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  #27  
Old 11-24-2012, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: Just Curious.

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Originally Posted by bfine32 View Post
I agree with your assesment that MJ is a valuable member of the defense; however, the best defensive player not named Geno is Leon.

WTS DE is a definite need for this team.

Geathers is servicable, but nowhere worth the 6.2 mil cap hit he cost us this year. Wouldn't be against bringing him back at a greatly reduced salary.

Dunlap is turning out to be unreliable and can be counted on for nothing more that spot duty.

Gilberry is a journeyman that has performed well for us and if he would be cheaper to retain than Geathers keep him and let Geather walk or visa versa.

So there is definitely a need for another "force" at DE. After MJ our next leading sacker at DE is Geathers with 3.

A guy I like in the mid to late 1st round is Alex Okafor. Through 9 games he has:
60 tackles, 12.5 tackles for loss, 8.5 sacks, 17 quarterback hurries, 3 forced fumbles, 1 blocked kick. Gimme that.
I think we could bring Geathers and Gilberry both back on affordable contracts. Geathers should be taking a pay cut. And we got Gilberry off the street so we may not have much competition for his services.

Like I said earlier in this post I think we can get better if we stay status quo on personnel. The progression of MJ, Dunlap, and Gilberry should be able to improve us.

Dunlap isn't going anywhere because he instantly makes the D better when he steps on the field. And he and MJ obviously feed of of each other.

I'm not saying it would be a bad idea to draft a DE early. But as of now it is far from a necessity.

We need to bring our own guys back and create the opportunity to be able to draft for BPA and not need.
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  #28  
Old 11-24-2012, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: Just Curious.

We lack a consistent pass rush.
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  #29  
Old 11-24-2012, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: Just Curious.

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Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
What if we replace him with JPP, Jared Allen, Justin Tuck, Julius Peppers, Mario Williams, JJ Watt?
Bet you I can find more busts than you can studs.

Or how about we keep the guy who has more sacks than everybody you listed but Watt and is tied with Jared Allen.
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  #30  
Old 11-24-2012, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: Just Curious.

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Originally Posted by Bengal4ever68 View Post
We lack a consistent pass rush.
x2

We may be 3rd in the NFL in sacks, but our pass rush is insanely inconsistent aside from Atkins.
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  #31  
Old 11-24-2012, 09:53 PM
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Default Re: Just Curious.

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Originally Posted by NATI BENGALS View Post
I think we could bring Geathers and Gilberry both back on affordable contracts. Geathers should be taking a pay cut. And we got Gilberry off the street so we may not have much competition for his services.

Like I said earlier in this post I think we can get better if we stay status quo on personnel. The progression of MJ, Dunlap, and Gilberry should be able to improve us.

Dunlap isn't going anywhere because he instantly makes the D better when he steps on the field. And he and MJ obviously feed of of each other.

I'm not saying it would be a bad idea to draft a DE early. But as of now it is far from a necessity.

We need to bring our own guys back and create the opportunity to be able to draft for BPA and not need.
Definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Your solution to an inconsistant pass rush is to keep the same players. Doing this will result in an inconsistant pass rush again.

WTS, I totally agree that the Bengals should re-sign MJ. But, I think that they should draft a DE early (1st or 2nd round) to upgrade either Gilberry or Geathers.
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  #32  
Old 11-25-2012, 07:32 AM
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bengals Re: Just Curious.

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Originally Posted by Bengal4ever68 View Post
We lack a consistent pass rush.
That would be why we are #3 in the league in sacks right? Seriously....people look at individual stats and just want to see a single guy with 12 to 15 sacks it would seem that they cannot wrap their head around the fact that our entire oline contributes in the wall column.

The numbers are there it is just not a single guy getting them. I would rather have everyone contribute rather than a single guy that coaches can plan against.
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  #33  
Old 11-25-2012, 07:37 AM
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bengals Re: Just Curious.

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Originally Posted by mulligan View Post
Definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Your solution to an inconsistant pass rush is to keep the same players. Doing this will result in an inconsistant pass rush again.

WTS, I totally agree that the Bengals should re-sign MJ. But, I think that they should draft a DE early (1st or 2nd round) to upgrade either Gilberry or Geathers.
I like the inconsistent argument. It is used a lot when people can't come up with concrete points to back their stance. It would seem that we are certainly more consistent than 29 other defenses in a 32 team league.

Can we improve? Sure but to call it insanity to bring back guys that have put a team in the top 3 in the league in sacks well is insanity in itself.

It is a team game and our rotation as a group is performing at an elite level.
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  #34  
Old 11-25-2012, 11:55 AM
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Default Re: Just Curious.

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
That would be why we are #3 in the league in sacks right? Seriously....people look at individual stats and just want to see a single guy with 12 to 15 sacks it would seem that they cannot wrap their head around the fact that our entire oline contributes in the wall column.

The numbers are there it is just not a single guy getting them. I would rather have everyone contribute rather than a single guy that coaches can plan against.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
I like the inconsistent argument. It is used a lot when people can't come up with concrete points to back their stance. It would seem that we are certainly more consistent than 29 other defenses in a 32 team league.

Can we improve? Sure but to call it insanity to bring back guys that have put a team in the top 3 in the league in sacks well is insanity in itself.

It is a team game and our rotation as a group is performing at an elite level.
No one is pointing to individual numbers!
As a team we lack consistent pass rush. There is more to a pass rush than just sack numbers. These do not occur within a vacuum. Everyone else sees it when they play us. We get to the QB once or twice, then dont touch him for awhile. Teams with a truly great pass rush make the QB throw on the run, throw early because they have hit him so much...we don't do that. We got our 1 sack vs Weeden. But the rest of the game he sat there clean as a daisy to throw up 300+ yards.
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  #35  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:55 PM
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bengals Re: Just Curious.

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Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
No one is pointing to individual numbers!
As a team we lack consistent pass rush. There is more to a pass rush than just sack numbers. These do not occur within a vacuum. Everyone else sees it when they play us. We get to the QB once or twice, then dont touch him for awhile. Teams with a truly great pass rush make the QB throw on the run, throw early because they have hit him so much...we don't do that. We got our 1 sack vs Weeden. But the rest of the game he sat there clean as a daisy to throw up 300+ yards.
I would think that pressure numbers would not support your point either. When I get time I will check it out.
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  #36  
Old 11-25-2012, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: Just Curious.

I think drafting a DE in the first round would be a colossal waste. I don't think you throw the towel in on 2 of the better young defensive ends in the game. They are both 25 or under and will be coming into their prime.

If you want to take one in the 2nd or 3rd round, great, but a 1st rounder is a waste.
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  #37  
Old 11-25-2012, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: Just Curious.

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Originally Posted by Hammerstripes View Post
I think drafting a DE in the first round would be a colossal waste. I don't think you throw the towel in on 2 of the better young defensive ends in the game. They are both 25 or under and will be coming into their prime.

If you want to take one in the 2nd or 3rd round, great, but a 1st rounder is a waste.
Not necessarily. If we lose Geathers and Gilberry we have to replace a ton of snaps.
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  #38  
Old 11-25-2012, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: Just Curious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
I like the inconsistent argument. It is used a lot when people can't come up with concrete points to back their stance. It would seem that we are certainly more consistent than 29 other defenses in a 32 team league.

Can we improve? Sure but to call it insanity to bring back guys that have put a team in the top 3 in the league in sacks well is insanity in itself.

It is a team game and our rotation as a group is performing at an elite level.
Are you saying that you haven't seen inconsistancies in the pass rush?
Against the Ravens?
Against the Browns 1st game?
Against the Dolphins?
Against the Broncos?

The pass rush has improved in the last several games (Raiders, Chiefs, Giants).

As berserker pointed out, sacks are only a partial reflection of true pass rush.
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