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Old 11-27-2012, 03:10 PM
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Default Why do so many want a DE?

DE is not a position of weakness on this team. There are so many other areas where we truly need help I just don't get wanting to draft a DE in Rd 1. Sure, a guy that gets us 10 sacks is grea, but not if he is taking over a position where the present guy can get us 6-7. We need more def backfield help at CB and especially at Safety. We need alot of RB help, we can use 2-3 LBers, especially one or two that cna be impact players. If we take a DE in RD 1, I think it's a big mistake. I hope we go like we did with Spoikes and Simmons with our first 2 picks and then foillow that with a RB and a Safety. No to D-linemen!
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:36 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

I'm guessing you think we'll re-sign MJ and Dunlap will always be healthy.
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

While I agree that the Bengals shouldn't look for a DE in the draft, it would be hard to pass up a deal. Think the team would benefit more from adding a few linebackers and a safety before searching for a DE.


Definitely want to see a defense minded draft this year, with maybe RB addressed early. Past that, defense should be the priority.
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

Bigger needs: LB, S, RB
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

Johnson - Free Agent (career year in a contract year, anyone shocked?)
Geathers - Free Agent (does anyone want him back?)
Gilberry - Free Agent (guy off the street)

Let's face it our current group of DE's is seeing their numbers inflate with the presence of Geno in the middle.
With that said, if MJ hits 10 sacks on the year he will want a lot more than he has been worth for his 3 sacks a year before this one.
So yeah, if MJ asks for more than he has been worth, I would say DE becomes our biggest need.
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
Johnson - Free Agent (career year in a contract year, anyone shocked?)
Geathers - Free Agent (does anyone want him back?)
Gilberry - Free Agent (guy off the street)

Let's face it our current group of DE's is seeing their numbers inflate with the presence of Geno in the middle.
With that said, if MJ hits 10 sacks on the year he will want a lot more than he has been worth for his 3 sacks a year before this one.
So yeah, if MJ asks for more than he has been worth, I would say DE becomes our biggest need.
Plus, Jamaal Andreson seemed ineffective before his injury.
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:50 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

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Plus, Jamaal Andreson seemed ineffective before his injury.
much kinder word than I would have chosen.
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
Johnson - Free Agent (career year in a contract year, anyone shocked?)
Geathers - Free Agent (does anyone want him back?)
Gilberry - Free Agent (guy off the street)

Let's face it our current group of DE's is seeing their numbers inflate with the presence of Geno in the middle.
With that said, if MJ hits 10 sacks on the year he will want a lot more than he has been worth for his 3 sacks a year before this one.
So yeah, if MJ asks for more than he has been worth, I would say DE becomes our biggest need.
It is entirely possible that MJ asks for a big contract and does not get it here. But at the same time, his first couple of years they kept flirting with the idea of playing him at SAM, so he kept his weight down for that role. Is the weight he put on why he is playing better? And if so, does that make him worth signing?

It's a tough question.
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:56 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

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Originally Posted by Jasonew6 View Post
It is entirely possible that MJ asks for a big contract and does not get it here. But at the same time, his first couple of years they kept flirting with the idea of playing him at SAM, so he kept his weight down for that role. Is the weight he put on why he is playing better? And if so, does that make him worth signing?

It's a tough question.
I think there is too much against MJ right now to make him worth more than similar to what Geathers got after his big year.
1. The Geno-effect. Similar to how every DE next to Jared Allen seems to get better....
2. He flat out disappears in some games. I forgot he was on the field vs Denver.
3. He is doing this in a contract year. Will he keep it up after he gets $$$$.

I have talked to fans and guys who know the game and they all seem to agree that MJ is having the most unimpressive 8+ sack season.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

Unless the Bengals pull a move out of left field (not a shocker) and franchise MJ, I truly believe he'll move on. I could see a team like the Jags throw a bunch of money at him.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

Its all going to come down to who is there when we pick. It seems like every week, the prospect rankings change big time. I see Damontre Moore climb and fall every week. Same with Montgomery and Werner. If one of those three are there when we pick (late Teens - early Twenties), you have to jump on one of them. Even if we resign MJ, we can insert one of them in Geathers position and our DL becomes more dominant then it already is.

LB is probably our biggest need, but outside of Jones and Te'o, there will be no one there when we pick and you dont want to reach for the next best LB (Ogeltree, Thomas or whoever). We can address LB in the 2nd round (Thomas, Greene or someone else).

RB is right up there with LB even with how well we have been running the ball as of late. Randle and Bernard should be there in the 2nd. Gillislee is starting to rise up the boards. Stephan Taylor, Kenjon Barner, Johnathan Franklin, Andre Ellington. There are a lot to choose from.

Safety is a big need as well. If we dont choose DE in the first round, I wouldnt be opposed to grab Vaccaro or Reid (Vaccaro looks to be the best, Reid fluctuates every week; Elam, McDonald and Rambo are up there as well)

1 - Damontre Moore, Sam Montgomery or Bjoren Werner
2 - Chase Thomas
2 - Joseph Randle
3 - Bacarri Rambo
4 - Gerald Hodges (I really hope he falls bc I really want him) or Sean Porter

OR.....

1 - Vacarro / Reid
2 - Chase Thomas
2 - Randle / Bernard
3 - Gerald Hodges
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:04 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

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Unless the Bengals pull a move out of left field (not a shocker) and franchise MJ, I truly believe he'll move on. I could see a team like the Jags throw a bunch of money at him.
Ah purgatory....
Franchising him would be a terrible idea IMO. That is $11 million to a guy who has averaged 3 sacks a year before this year. Has a habit of disappearing from games.
That is a big blow to the re-sign Geno and Andre fund.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

One big plus for MJ is that he handles Joe Thomas really well every time he faces him. That's two games a year, because he's never hurt either.

I guess that's two big things. I'm all for giving MJ a reasonable extension. If he or Andre want outrageous contracts, let them walk and fill that need in the first round. (hopefully both are reasonable!)
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

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Its all going to come down to who is there when we pick.
Pretty much this. It depends who is available. Right now, picking around 20, I'd rather not reach if possible, and RB is a reach. There is no clear cut safety all the way out to the 3rd round. Nothing wrong with a LB pick but good ones are there in the 2nd round. The best 'value' seems to be at DE, and if you like WR2, a couple could be there also.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

Every year there are a few guys on here that pretty much say we should use picks 1-7 all on DEs. Basically the same guys who say we are set at DB. Then they justify it by saying 1 of the following cliches....

"Win in the trenches"

or

"Can never have too many pass rushers"
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

Not me!!

I think they should take a hard long look at CB in the draft.

We are damn lucky that Hall came back this season and didn't get reinjured or be severly hindered by his injury.

I know some on here aren't big fans of Hall, but the guy is solid and has a short memory if he does get burned.

I just think you can never have too much depth in the backfield. With Kirkpatrick working his way in, and perhaps we part ways with some current ones, this would be the best move.

The reason I say draft a CB is because this team will never sign a big name FA one.

The other positions:

1. Safety
2. LB
3. RB

Maybe even another O lineman. No DEs or DTs in early rounds.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:48 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker View Post
DE is not a position of weakness on this team. There are so many other areas where we truly need help I just don't get wanting to draft a DE in Rd 1. Sure, a guy that gets us 10 sacks is grea, but not if he is taking over a position where the present guy can get us 6-7. We need more def backfield help at CB and especially at Safety. We need alot of RB help, we can use 2-3 LBers, especially one or two that cna be impact players. If we take a DE in RD 1, I think it's a big mistake. I hope we go like we did with Spoikes and Simmons with our first 2 picks and then foillow that with a RB and a Safety. No to D-linemen!
Like many people have mentioned; Dunlap's health is a concern, MJ is very streaky as well is a FA, and Geathers is in his last year. So even if they resign MJ there are some holes to fill at the DE position.

But watching what the Giants pass rushers did to Rodgers on Sunday night is the prime reason that you can never have enough quality pass rushers in the NFL.

I am not saying that you have to draft one but I sure would not pass on a great o e if he is there.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

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Like many people have mentioned; Dunlap's health is a concern, MJ is very streaky as well is a FA, and Geathers is in his last year. So even if they resign MJ there are some holes to fill at the DE position.

But watching what the Giants pass rushers did to Rodgers on Sunday night is the prime reason that you can never have enough quality pass rushers in the NFL.

I am not saying that you have to draft one but I sure would not pass on a great o e if he is there.
Kind of like watching what the Bengals pass rushers did to Eli Manning?
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

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Originally Posted by Stewee28 View Post
Its all going to come down to who is there when we pick. It seems like every week, the prospect rankings change big time. I see Damontre Moore climb and fall every week. Same with Montgomery and Werner. If one of those three are there when we pick (late Teens - early Twenties), you have to jump on one of them. Even if we resign MJ, we can insert one of them in Geathers position and our DL becomes more dominant then it already is.

LB is probably our biggest need, but outside of Jones and Te'o, there will be no one there when we pick and you dont want to reach for the next best LB (Ogeltree, Thomas or whoever). We can address LB in the 2nd round (Thomas, Greene or someone else).

RB is right up there with LB even with how well we have been running the ball as of late. Randle and Bernard should be there in the 2nd. Gillislee is starting to rise up the boards. Stephan Taylor, Kenjon Barner, Johnathan Franklin, Andre Ellington. There are a lot to choose from.

Safety is a big need as well. If we dont choose DE in the first round, I wouldnt be opposed to grab Vaccaro or Reid (Vaccaro looks to be the best, Reid fluctuates every week; Elam, McDonald and Rambo are up there as well)

1 - Damontre Moore, Sam Montgomery or Bjoren Werner
2 - Chase Thomas
2 - Joseph Randle
3 - Bacarri Rambo
4 - Gerald Hodges (I really hope he falls bc I really want him) or Sean Porter

OR.....

1 - Vacarro / Reid
2 - Chase Thomas
2 - Randle / Bernard
3 - Gerald Hodges
You pretty much nail it here on why we would go DE. Take the best player available and any of the three you mentioned would fit that bill with where we will likely be picking. One difference is that I could see us going for an OLB in the 1st if a guy like CJ Mosley is available. RB and Safety look to be bigger needs right now but the talent is not there to justify absolutely taking one of those positions in the 1st.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:19 AM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
Johnson - Free Agent (career year in a contract year, anyone shocked?)
Geathers - Free Agent (does anyone want him back?)
Gilberry - Free Agent (guy off the street)

Let's face it our current group of DE's is seeing their numbers inflate with the presence of Geno in the middle.
With that said, if MJ hits 10 sacks on the year he will want a lot more than he has been worth for his 3 sacks a year before this one.
So yeah, if MJ asks for more than he has been worth, I would say DE becomes our biggest need.
Pretty much this. We have three DEs going into FA, and another recovering from a season-ending injury. I see at least one of our FA DEs not returning (prefer not Geathers due to contract size, but ok if he takes a much cheaper one). We will need to either draft a DE high or sign a proven vet. Perhaps Jason Babin? But he's already 32, so it would not be a long term fix anyway.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:29 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

After reading the article about MJ on Bengals.com, I definitelt think he will be worth re-signing, and would not object to tagging him. It seems to me he might finally be playing up to his athletic ability, and he's a great "kid".
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewee28 View Post
Its all going to come down to who is there when we pick. It seems like every week, the prospect rankings change big time. I see Damontre Moore climb and fall every week. Same with Montgomery and Werner. If one of those three are there when we pick (late Teens - early Twenties), you have to jump on one of them. Even if we resign MJ, we can insert one of them in Geathers position and our DL becomes more dominant then it already is.

LB is probably our biggest need, but outside of Jones and Te'o, there will be no one there when we pick and you dont want to reach for the next best LB (Ogeltree, Thomas or whoever). We can address LB in the 2nd round (Thomas, Greene or someone else).

RB is right up there with LB even with how well we have been running the ball as of late. Randle and Bernard should be there in the 2nd. Gillislee is starting to rise up the boards. Stephan Taylor, Kenjon Barner, Johnathan Franklin, Andre Ellington. There are a lot to choose from.

Safety is a big need as well. If we dont choose DE in the first round, I wouldnt be opposed to grab Vaccaro or Reid (Vaccaro looks to be the best, Reid fluctuates every week; Elam, McDonald and Rambo are up there as well)

1 - Damontre Moore, Sam Montgomery or Bjoren Werner
2 - Chase Thomas
2 - Joseph Randle
3 - Bacarri Rambo
4 - Gerald Hodges (I really hope he falls bc I really want him) or Sean Porter

OR.....

1 - Vacarro / Reid
2 - Chase Thomas
2 - Randle / Bernard
3 - Gerald Hodges
I don't think any of your DE choices will be there where the Bengals are drafting this year if they finish out strong.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

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I don't think any of your DE choices will be there where the Bengals are drafting this year if they finish out strong.
Unfortunately, I have to agree. Great to keep winning, ***** to slip farther and farther down the board. What about Okafor? If were drafting in the Mid-20's, would you go with Okafor or who would you pick?
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

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Unfortunately, I have to agree. Great to keep winning, ***** to slip farther and farther down the board. What about Okafor? If were drafting in the Mid-20's, would you go with Okafor or who would you pick?
If we are drafting in the 20s, I want a S. I would take Vacarro. I guess I'm just sick of the revolving door we've had at SS.

For years we needed a TE, we drafted Gresham and that worked out great.
For years we needed an OG, we drafted Zeitler and that has worked out great.

I realize that TE,OG and S are not prized positions in the draft, but drafting in the 20s would allow us the get the best one this year.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

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If we are drafting in the 20s, I want a S. I would take Vacarro. I guess I'm just sick of the revolving door we've had at SS.

For years we needed a TE, we drafted Gresham and that worked out great.
For years we needed an OG, we drafted Zeitler and that has worked out great.

I realize that TE,OG and S are not prized positions in the draft, but drafting in the 20s would allow us the get the best one this year.
I think Vaccaro is the best Safety in this years draft class. I would definitely love that pick. Personally, I want Vaccaro or Rambo. Those are the top two safeties on my draft board. Vaccaro is solid in every aspect (run support and pass coverage). Rambo just flocks to the ball and he's a heavy hitter when he needs to be.

With that said, I would still like to address another top DE. Whether it be with our 1st round pick or one of the two 2nd round picks!
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