I have a question for everyone

[Lawless_1]

Let's say the Bengals had decided to move on from CP9 without him wanting to leave and everything else played out the way it did..... We drafted Dalton and traded away CP9 to Oakland for the same draft picks..... How would you feel about this team following the performance of both QBs this week?

I felt it was time to move on from CP9 years because we did not have hard nosed coach or offensive coordinator to keep certain players in line and Carson sure was not going to. The QB we have now seem like the right guy for that duty.

[fumetti]

I lost faith in Palmer in '09. The passing game was totally inept after Chris Henry was injured vs. Balt. Cincy got only field goals after that point. Could only beat teams with 3 or fewer wins at that point. Could seldom get even two tds in one game. Palmer's long passes were simply godawful. I was at the Jets playoff game. I wanted to puke. The Jets were not that good that day. Cincy just couldn't get anything going.

Something inexplicable happened midseason. Whatever that was, Palmer was never the same again. In '10 Palmer looked like half the player he used to be, looking good only in the SD win.

I'm not mad a Palmer and actually root for him at Oakland. He did Cincy a HUGE favor by demanding a trade. Anyone should be able to see that now. Cincy is clearly better off the way things are now than if he'd stayed.

(And Palmer haters should rejoice, because Palmer is not better off. Oakland's offense is a mess, and Palmer will live with the label--fairly or not--as the savior who failed to save his team(s).)

It's time we all moved on.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by fumetti

I lost faith in Palmer in '09. The passing game was totally inept after Chris Henry was injured vs. Balt. Cincy got only field goals after that point. Could only beat teams with 3 or fewer wins at that point. Could seldom get even two tds in one game. Palmer's long passes were simply godawful. I was at the Jets playoff game. I wanted to puke. The Jets were not that good that day. Cincy just couldn't get anything going.

Something inexplicable happened midseason. Whatever that was, Palmer was never the same again. In '10 Palmer looked like half the player he used to be, looking good only in the SD win.

I'm not mad a Palmer and actually root for him at Oakland. He did Cincy a HUGE favor by demanding a trade. Anyone should be able to see that now. Cincy is clearly better off the way things are now than if he'd stayed.

(And Palmer haters should rejoice, because Palmer is not better off. Oakland's offense is a mess, and Palmer will live with the label--fairly or not--as the savior who failed to save his team(s).)

It's time we all moved on.

09 was less than a year after his elbow injury he suffered in 08 and from the look of it he wasnt 100%... in fact there were several weeks (we lost) that he didnt practice at all and Jordan was taking all the 1st string reps. Then palmer would be declared the starter on saturday.

[HereThereMayBeTigers]

I was a Carson apologist for a while. My main gripe was that he was expected to be the pocket gunslinger that he had been in his prime even though he arguably no longer had the skill...and he definitely didn't have the supporting cast. Then he seemed to give up-and that was weak. When he left, I was uncertain-but now am very happy the way things turned out.

What I really wanted was a new OC and more of a WCO-with or without Palmer. Since him leaving is what we needed to obtain the 1st 2--I am glad.

[jj22]

I wasn't a Carson apologist but I probably blamed Brat and Chad and the rest of the wideouts more than Carson overall. I still believed in him, and I feared how hard it would be to find a franchise qb, and how it would (so i thought) set us back years searching for one. It wasn't until I watched him play for Oakland that I realized he really wasn't as good as we had thought, and his INT and pick 6 problem wasn't all on the wideouts.

[Shake n Blake]

I also lost faith in Palmer during the 09' season. Our run game and defense carried us to the playoffs that year. The passing game was a weakness. Carson's only great game that year was against the Bears. Other than that he only completed 262-442 (59.3%) for 2861 yards (190.7 per game) with a measly 16 tds to 13 picks (78.3 rating). The playoff performance against the Jets was hard to watch.

He followed that up with an even worse 2010. People talk like int's are a huge problem for Andy, but he's only on pace to throw 16. Palmer threw 20 twice. If you look at the game logs for 2010, Palmer only had 3 really good games (I don't count the Pats game because he compiled those stats in garbage time). In 2010, Palmer threw multiple picks 7 times. We had a 1-6 record in those games.

Long story short, I was ready for a new QB. Ponder and Dalton were the guys I wanted before the draft, so I was absolutely thrilled when Dalton fell into our laps. So far he's been everything I expected and more. He's a very resilient and confident QB and he's progressing well in year 2. Things will only get better as our #2 wr spot starts to get established.

2011- 300-516-3398-20-13 (80.4 rating/45.8 qbr) 9-7 playoff appearence

2012- 345-544-4028-33-16 (94.0 rating/57.8 qbr) ?

The only problem I have with Dalton right now is that he's 0-6 against the Steelers and Ravens. Those last 2 games against them will probably decide how this season goes.

[AngryPanda]

The only difference for me is I wouldn't have booed.

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by Lawless_1

Let's say the Bengals had decided to move on from CP9 without him wanting to leave and everything else played out the way it did..... We drafted Dalton and traded away CP9 to Oakland for the same draft picks..... How would you feel about this team following the performance of both QBs this week?

I felt it was time to move on from CP9 years because we did not have hard nosed coach or offensive coordinator to keep certain players in line and Carson sure was not going to. The QB we have now seem like the right guy for that duty.

Why should a QB be responsible for a players attitude? Chad was being an ahole because the team wasn't winning. Sure, Carson can be partially blamed for that, but I moreso blame Mike Brown for not taking 2 1st rounders for Chad after 2007, and Marvin Lewis for not corralling that behavior when it first started. It's not a players responsibility to babysit other players.

Besides that, looking at Chad's demeanor, if Palmer told him to stop(which I'm sure he did), what do you think Chad would have done? He took a swing at a guy that could cut him, thus cutting off his money supply, so there's almost zero chance he would have respected a fellow player's request to get his head out of his butt. These are grown men, with huge egos, and they're gonna act how they're gonna act.

Originally Posted by jj22

I wasn't a Carson apologist but I probably blamed Brat and Chad and the rest of the wideouts more than Carson overall. I still believed in him, and I feared how hard it would be to find a franchise qb, and how it would (so i thought) set us back years searching for one. It wasn't until I watched him play for Oakland that I realized he really wasn't as good as we had thought, and his INT and pick 6 problem wasn't all on the wideouts.

The receivers he has at Oakland are worse than who he had here in 09-10. Most of the fans on the Raider's board are saying Heyward-Bey and Moore drop a lot of passes(Bey more-so). Also, they loathe Greg Knapp. So really, it's same stuff, different team. I'm not saying Palmer is the same player he was in 05-06, or that he's not partially to blame for the 3-8 season, but to say he's the reason they're bad, removing all other legitimate variables, is being disingenuous.


Anyway, me personally, I'd feel pretty much exactly the same, except for a little less disdain for Mike Brown. In fact, I'm sure the biggest opponents of Carson and his "quitting" would have the biggest attitude change.

[Tony33]

I'm still a Palmer fan, will watch him whenever I get a chance just to show how thankful I am of him wanting out. Football players must understand that this game is bigger than them (ie, Pickens, Dillion, Palmer, and any other player).

[Jay62107]

The only problem I have with Dalton right now is that he's 0-6 against the Steelers and Ravens. Those last 2 games against them will probably decide how this season goes.[/quote]

The whole bengals team the past 2 years is 0-6 against the steelers and ravens not just Dalton.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by Jay62107

The whole bengals team the past 2 years is 0-6 against the steelers and ravens not just Dalton.

= truth

Wins and Losses dont apply to just the QB.

And did we expect a rookie to come in here and beat 2 of the best Defenses of the past DecadE?

[eliminate08]

Originally Posted by Lawless_1

Let's say the Bengals had decided to move on from CP9 without him wanting to leave and everything else played out the way it did..... We drafted Dalton and traded away CP9 to Oakland for the same draft picks..... How would you feel about this team following the performance of both QBs this week?

I felt it was time to move on from CP9 years because we did not have hard nosed coach or offensive coordinator to keep certain players in line and Carson sure was not going to. The QB we have now seem like the right guy for that duty.

I was always a Carson supporter right up until the very end. I blamed lots of the wrongs
that were going on on Brat, the O-line, Chad, TO, PA etc. That was, until he started
throwing pick 6's on a regular basis and it looked like he just didn't want to be here
anymore. That is when i started to realize that we needed a change.

I don't blame him for wanting out though and i am really happy we were able to get what
we did for him. In the end it worked out well for us and it probably wouldn't have worked out
well for us if he stayed here.

In the end i am a happy Bengals fan.

[car91]

I feel the same the same about Carson as the day he quit the Bengals. I really don't care because I feel like his time in Cincinnati was done. I think the injuries really changed him. It seemed like he lost his self confidence. I am glad he got what he wanted and I am glad the Bengals parted ways with him. Both parties involved got a good result. Carson is closer to home and Dalton looks to be establishing himself as a really good, if not great, NFL quarterback. Everybody wins.

[fulltime bengalfan]

Originally Posted by Lawless_1

Let's say the Bengals had decided to move on from CP9 without him wanting to leave and everything else played out the way it did..... We drafted Dalton and traded away CP9 to Oakland for the same draft picks..... How would you feel about this team following the performance of both QBs this week?

I felt it was time to move on from CP9 years because we did not have hard nosed coach or offensive coordinator to keep certain players in line and Carson sure was not going to. The QB we have now seem like the right guy for that duty.

I was a huge palmer fan untill he quit on us .....After the bengals made him a very rich man.....I look at him as a coward now......But you could say he made us better for years to come.....And you could see it in his face last sunday .....I am so glad andy had a great day and the bengals looked like a playoff team ...So you can change that CP9 TO AD14 if you ask me.....To me its like we are a young team and we are growing together ....And getting better and better everytime we take the field....And the players have alot of trust in AD14....Hope it keeps going

[Who2Dey]

Originally Posted by Lawless_1

Let's say the Bengals had decided to move on from CP9 without him wanting to leave and everything else played out the way it did..... We drafted Dalton and traded away CP9 to Oakland for the same draft picks..... How would you feel about this team following the performance of both QBs this week?

I felt it was time to move on from CP9 years because we did not have hard nosed coach or offensive coordinator to keep certain players in line and Carson sure was not going to. The QB we have now seem like the right guy for that duty.

I don't get your question.

Are you asking about the team or individual players?

Is my opinion of carson, dalton, and the organization as a whole different now than it was 11-24-12 because carson had a bad game for a bad team and the bengals beat them handily? No. We've had over a season and a half to form an opinion, why would this single game change any of that.

It's not the qbs job to wrangle the circus clowns that were on this team...that's marvins job. It's not Daltons either and not sure what makes you think he's a hard ***. Daltons best qualities are mobility, accuracy, and decision making.

I think you're simply forming a new thread to hate on carson, because it doesn't seem to make much sense.

[bfine32]

Originally Posted by Lawless_1

Let's say the Bengals had decided to move on from CP9 without him wanting to leave and everything else played out the way it did..... We drafted Dalton and traded away CP9 to Oakland for the same draft picks..... How would you feel about this team following the performance of both QBs this week?

I felt it was time to move on from CP9 years because we did not have hard nosed coach or offensive coordinator to keep certain players in line and Carson sure was not going to. The QB we have now seem like the right guy for that duty.

IDK, didn't Marvin just call him out? I don't see Andy as an "in your face" presence anymore than CP9.

[BengaliJack]

Originally Posted by Jay62107

The only problem I have with Dalton right now is that he's 0-6 against the Steelers and Ravens. Those last 2 games against them will probably decide how this season goes.

The whole bengals team the past 2 years is 0-6 against the steelers and ravens not just Dalton.[/quote]

Agreed...and in this division this where you prove your pecans......against the Ravens and the Steelers. That loss to the Browns was like an unexpected kick in the sack though.

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by bfine32

IDK, didn't Marvin just call him out? I don't see Andy as an "in your face" presence anymore than CP9.

Besides that, Andy doesn't have anyone on offense that needs to be kept under control. Everyone is either a rookie or a humble veteran. No Benson, no Ocho, no TO, no Henry, etc... Come to think of it, has anyone on the offense been arrested or charged with a crime since being in the NFL? I don't think anyone has even been fined for misconduct.

Anyway, Gruden I think played a large part in turning this offense around. He's down on the field instead of up in the box, and it's a lot harsher to have someone get in your ear for screwing up when they're right in your face instead of through a phone receiver.

I'll also give Mike and Marvin credit for getting players that are team oriented, and cutting/not signing guys who are all about themselves.