Here's Carson

[DennyG2]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

He's also on pace for 664 attempts. That's what you leave out. The Raiders are passing a TON. The stats you should look at are efficiency stats.

60.7% completions
85.8 rating

Meanwhile, our own Andy Dalton is on pace for 4050 yards, 32 tds and 18 ints. He's completing 64.2% with a 92.7 rating. Yet half the board is ripping him on a daily basis.

[DennyG2]

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

The last two Raiders games were pretty much over early, and so was the Dolphins game. Their other four losses were not blowouts. Inevitably, some of the stats are going to be "garbage time" but probably not as much as ppl think cuz most NFL games are close and competitive often times even when a bad team plays a good one.

After Bengals game and seeing it in person. You still interested in being Palmer's biggest cheerleader?

[Robbie Sharp]

Originally Posted by DennyG2

After Bengals game and seeing it in person. You still interested in being Palmer's biggest cheerleader?

crickets

[mars304]

Originally Posted by bengalfan247

As someone that supposedly watches the games you should know that "red zone" int went right through his TE hands and into the DB's hands and should have been a TD.

CP on the next possession drove the team down and scored a TD.

Then the ST allowed a 75 yard kick return. And then the defense on 3rd and 17 allowed a 38 yard bomb to get behind them for a TD.

You can say you are watching the games but your words say otherwise. I watch every game. EVERY GAME!! CP is putting up a herculean effort considering he has nothing besides Reece around him. Reece is a fullback that has been forced to play tailback because the 3 tailbacks on the team are injured. His best WR was gone for the season before the season started and DHB was almost killed on hit and missed games. Not to mention that DHB has a reputation for dropping as many passes as he catches when he does play. He had another game given away because the long snapper got hurt early and the guy they put in had 3 consecutive grounders to the punter/fgKicker that gave the other team the ball 3 times in Oakland terriory. In spite of that he is #3 in the league in passing yards (37 yards behind Ryan).

As for the wins?.. a Carson led team beat Pittsburgh this year. How did your team do against them?

I know you are all butthurt because your hero decided to call MB on failed promises. And you had to throw away all those #9 jerseys that you bought. I understand your hate. But don't talk about "watching games" when you don't know anything outside of talking points. oh yeah, one more thing. Hate only hurts the one who holds it. CP holds no ill feelings for Cincy or the Bengals. If fact, he keeps in regular contact with a few of the players. He is really looking forward to this game. The hate is all yours.

So you are not a bengals fan? You asked how did your team fare when referring to the bengals, so are you a raiders fan?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

[THEBURG]

Originally Posted by mars304

So you are not a bengals fan? You asked how did your team fare when referring to the bengals, so are you a raiders fan?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

Sounds like Carson himself.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by mars304

So you are not a bengals fan? You asked how did your team fare when referring to the bengals, so are you a raiders fan?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

I call him CarsonFan247. He claims to live in California where he's best buds with Carson and JP.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by DennyG2

After Bengals game and seeing it in person. You still interested in being Palmer's biggest cheerleader?

Snarky comments are all you've got dude. It's all you've had throughout this entire discussion of ours.

That's why you havent' once even tried to engage the points I've made that clearly show that your assertion that the Raiders are terrible solely becuz of Palmer is jibberish.

I predicted we would induce a bad game from him, our defense is playing excellent and he's all they got. Which means it ain't hard to know what's gonna happen in that match up.

Even good teams with elite QBs often get it handed it to them by good defenses a la Manning and Brady on several occasions by the Steelers and Ravens, often times in the playoffs no less.

Just admit it dude. Any opinion you ever submit is based upon orange kool-aid, not logic or reason. Therefore, any opinion you submit is taken with a grain of salt. This is no exception.

Why is Palmer, on a terrible team, having a better year than Eli Manning is playing for the defending champs? Is Eli overrated after finally having a good year last year? Yea, but it's also safe to say that Palmer is underrated and that's why they end up with the same rating this season. Main difference is, one plays for the defending champs, the other plays for a very bad Raiders team with the worst defense in the league.

How do you explain a team that everyone agrees has easily the worst D in the league and everyone also agrees they have no run game. They have an unproven rookie HC, a known hack at OC and yet they've won three ballgames???? How'd that happen??

Guess what Denny, those three wins that they did manage, and most of the other games when they were actually competitive.....that only happened cuz Palmer is actually pretty darn good.

[DennyG2]

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

Snarky comments are all you've got dude. It's all you've had throughout this entire discussion of ours.

That's why you havent' once even tried to engage the points I've made that clearly show that your assertion that the Raiders are terrible solely becuz of Palmer is jibberish.

I predicted we would induce a bad game from him, our defense is playing excellent and he's all they got. Which means it ain't hard to know what's gonna happen in that match up.

Even good teams with elite QBs often get it handed it to them by good defenses a la Manning and Brady on several occasions by the Steelers and Ravens, often times in the playoffs no less.

Just admit it dude. Any opinion you ever submit is based upon orange kool-aid, not logic or reason. Therefore, any opinion you submit is taken with a grain of salt. This is no exception.

Why is Palmer, on a terrible team, having a better year than Eli Manning is playing for the defending champs? Is Eli overrated after finally having a good year last year? Yea, but it's also safe to say that Palmer is underrated and that's why they end up with the same rating this season. Main difference is, one plays for the defending champs, the other plays for a very bad Raiders team with the worst defense in the league.

How do you explain a team that everyone agrees has easily the worst D in the league and everyone also agrees they have no run game. They have an unproven rookie HC, a known hack at OC and yet they've won three ballgames???? How'd that happen??

Guess what Denny, those three wins that they did manage, and most of the other games when they were actually competitive.....that only happened cuz Palmer is actually pretty darn good.

Excuses, excuses, excuses...That is all you have. Face it, Palmer is at the lower half of the QB chain for a reason, he just isn't that good anymore. He is in the twilight of a very underachieving career.

The fact you even tried comparing Palmer with Eli Manning, a 2 time super bowl winning QB made me laugh out loud. Your points are futile. I respect that you are a Palmer apologist, but even you can see, his day has come and gone. His yardage only comes in garbage time as we all saw last week and all year for that matter.

Bottom line, he is 6-13 as a Raider starter ranked in lower half of NFL. Done deal...

Who-Dey!

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by DennyG2

Excuses, excuses, excuses...That is all you have. Face it, Palmer is at the lower half of the QB chain for a reason, he just isn't that good anymore. He is in the twilight of a very underachieving career.

The fact you even tried comparing Palmer with Eli Manning, a 2 time super bowl winning QB made me laugh out loud. Your points are futile. I respect that you are a Palmer apologist, but even you can see, his day has come and gone. His yardage only comes in garbage time as we all saw last week and all year for that matter.

Bottom line, he is 6-13 as a Raider starter ranked in lower half of NFL. Done deal...

Who-Dey!

Palmer had a better passer rating than Eli against the Bengals (they both stunk, ijs tho, and like I said before, the Bengals have the DLine to do that to ppl when they're playing well, much like the Giants do). They have the same passer rating for the season and Carson has more yards and TDs I believe.

If you can't appreciate the difference between the Raiders and Giants on a team level and what the big picture tells those who have a clue, then idk what to tell ya buddy.

Really, I think you know better. I think you're fully aware of the fact that such a comparison speaks to exactly what I've already pointed out. Eli is overrated cuz he plays for an excellent well coached team and Palmer is underrated cuz he's been playing for bad, poorly coached teams for several years now.

There is simply no other way to rationally account for how one QB can have two rings and even be considered "elite" by some while another who so many consider a bum has the same passer rating and more yards and TDs.

Peyton Manning is the only QB in the league who I know beyond any shadow of a doubt can make a bad team good. Others like Brady, Brees, Rodgers, probably can, but do we really know?? Pats went 11-5 with Cassell for goodness sakes. And except for his one year with Weiss as his OC, Cassell has stunk on ice since he went to KC.

There's much to consider and a lot of variables involved but if a guy has enough of a body of work and one considers all the factors i.e., supporting cast, coaching, stats etc. then it is often very reasonable to assess a QB that many call a bum and realize that actually, he's much better than ppl think. Palmer is one of those cases.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by DennyG2

Excuses, excuses, excuses...That is all you have. Face it, Palmer is at the lower half of the QB chain for a reason, he just isn't that good anymore. He is in the twilight of a very underachieving career.

The fact you even tried comparing Palmer with Eli Manning, a 2 time super bowl winning QB made me laugh out loud. Your points are futile. I respect that you are a Palmer apologist, but even you can see, his day has come and gone. His yardage only comes in garbage time as we all saw last week and all year for that matter.

Bottom line, he is 6-13 as a Raider starter ranked in lower half of NFL. Done deal...

Who-Dey!

The whole Raiders team is pretty Terrible... They have to release or cut alot of their stars due to over inflated contracts Al Davis liked to give out. they are battling the cap paying off old contracts and trying to field a team its gonna be a few years before they begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel and palmer is probly just their stop gap till then I guy that gives them a better chance to win than a younger inexperienced guy would playing for that mess of a team.

I agree palmer is fading into the Sunset. and a big part of that was the Bengals inablity to field a decent OL after game 2 of 2006. The last 3 game stretch is the closest its been to getting back to that 05 level of line play.

His injuries have destroyed his career. But theres no doubt palmer was the start of the Bengals turnaround and hating on him showing us what winning looks like again and giving us that taste is absord. Yes its bitter sweet because he couldnt finish it up. But he gave this franchise the taste of being a winner again and we havent looked back.

Still believe we would have won it all in 05 the steelers are dirty.

[DennyG2]

Originally Posted by BengalsFan024

The whole Raiders team is pretty Terrible... They have to release or cut alot of their stars due to over inflated contracts Al Davis liked to give out. they are battling the cap paying off old contracts and trying to field a team its gonna be a few years before they begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel and palmer is probly just their stop gap till then I guy that gives them a better chance to win than a younger inexperienced guy would playing for that mess of a team.

I agree palmer is fading into the Sunset. and a big part of that was the Bengals inablity to field a decent OL after game 2 of 2006. The last 3 game stretch is the closest its been to getting back to that 05 level of line play.

His injuries have destroyed his career. But theres no doubt palmer was the start of the Bengals turnaround and hating on him showing us what winning looks like again and giving us that taste is absord. Yes its bitter sweet because he couldnt finish it up. But he gave this franchise the taste of being a winner again and we havent looked back.

Still believe we would have won it all in 05 the steelers are dirty.

i actually agree with much of what you have to say here, and yes, he was a big part of the turnaround in the early years. I think Palmer is a super guy, but tickled foe the Bengals sake how this all went down. Palmer quit and the Bengals are much better without him, it is that simple. While the Bengals should be good for years, Palmer is trapped in miserable Oakland, wher all washed up former good players end their career. Poetic justice? Just maybe...

[Who2Dey]

Originally Posted by DennyG2

i actually agree with much of what you have to say here, and yes, he was a big part of the turnaround in the early years. I think Palmer is a super guy, but tickled foe the Bengals sake how this all went down. Palmer quit and the Bengals are much better without him, it is that simple. While the Bengals should be good for years, Palmer is trapped in miserable Oakland, wher all washed up former good players end their career. Poetic justice? Just maybe...

California >>>>>Ohio.

Football aside his LIFE is better now. He's home and I imagine 1000 X's happier.

Trapped in cali? Lima must be BEAUTIFUL this time of year.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by DennyG2

i actually agree with much of what you have to say here, and yes, he was a big part of the turnaround in the early years. I think Palmer is a super guy, but tickled foe the Bengals sake how this all went down. Palmer quit and the Bengals are much better without him, it is that simple. While the Bengals should be good for years, Palmer is trapped in miserable Oakland, wher all washed up former good players end their career. Poetic justice? Just maybe...

Yes, the Bengals are better without him, I'll give you that. He didn't want to be here anymore. The last thing a team needs is a jaded, dejected 30 something year old starting QB. I'd have liked to seen him give AJ and Gruden a chance and maybe he would have if MB hadn't played it the way he did. I think it came down to Marvin, Palmer would never admit it, but I think there's a good chance he felt the same way about Lewis that so many of us do, which is basically a "how on earth is this guy still the HC" sort of deal. So when MB took it public, and only gave him a new OC and not a new HC, it was a wrap.

But whatever man, I love Dalton, I'm no Palmer cheerleader. I'm just a staunch opponent of a QB-centric analysis of why teams fail or succeed. Yea, sometimes, a bad QB holds a good team back and sometimes a truly elite QB makes an average team good. But those are the exceptions and people talk as though it's the rule.....to do so is to ignore a fact that everyone knows....football is the ultimate team sport. You can have a dynasty with an average QB if your team is constructed properly. Just ask Terry Bradshaw. What's cool for us is we found a good one to replace a good one and Brat is gone as a result of the previous good one quitting, so how mad can I really be since it doesn't really matter how good your QB is if the OC is a total hack.

[DennyG2]

Originally Posted by Who2Dey

California >>>>>Ohio.

Football aside his LIFE is better now. He's home and I imagine 1000 X's happier.

Trapped in cali? Lima must be BEAUTIFUL this time of year.

If Palmer gives a damn about winning, I am sure you couldn't be more wrong, if he doesn't care, then he is exactly what most of us think he is...a quitter.

As far as Lima's beauty, it is home for me, pretty? not at all...that is why we go to Hawaii 3 times a year.

[Robbie Sharp]

The biggest problem I have with Palmer is not only did he quit, he also left everybody hanging as to why. Defenders say it was because he was to "classy" to say anything. I say it's for the same reason he wasn't a great leader on the field, he didn't have the ballz to speak up. Some say it was because of Marvin, and I could see that being the case myself. I tend to think it's more like his wife told him to get to the West coast or stay in Ohio by himself. Either way, it's all on him to let somebody know rather than crawl in a shell and sneak out of town. I seen that pitiful look on his face after the game, and I didn't miss him one bit. No fire, just defeat. The only real difference between Carson and say Peyton is the drive to succeed. Both have the physical tools, but only Peyton takes it to the next level. After a loss like that, Carson sulks. Peyton, on the other hand; would have been very, very, angry. Elite leaders don't take losing lightly, and it really never has seemed to bother Carson all that much. Taking credit for a loss and preparing to do something about it the next time are two very different things. Accepting defeat gracefully isn't my idea of a winner or anybody I want running the team I cheer for. It's the difference between getting paid to be a professional athlete and actually being one. Good luck to the beautiful loser in Oakland, visit Cincy anytime; we can always use the wins.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by Robbie Sharp

The biggest problem I have with Palmer is not only did he quit, he also left everybody hanging as to why. Defenders say it was because he was to "classy" to say anything. I say it's for the same reason he wasn't a great leader on the field, he didn't have the ballz to speak up. Some say it was because of Marvin, and I could see that being the case myself. I tend to think it's more like his wife told him to get to the West coast or stay in Ohio by himself. Either way, it's all on him to let somebody know rather than crawl in a shell and sneak out of town. I seen that pitiful look on his face after the game, and I didn't miss him one bit. No fire, just defeat. The only real difference between Carson and say Peyton is the drive to succeed. Both have the physical tools, but only Peyton takes it to the next level. After a loss like that, Carson sulks. Peyton, on the other hand; would have been very, very, angry. Elite leaders don't take losing lightly, and it really never has seemed to bother Carson all that much. Taking credit for a loss and preparing to do something about it the next time are two very different things. Accepting defeat gracefully isn't my idea of a winner or anybody I want running the team I cheer for. It's the difference between getting paid to be a professional athlete and actually being one. Good luck to the beautiful loser in Oakland, visit Cincy anytime; we can always use the wins.

He's been very clear he wanted out becuz of ownership. Considering this team's ownership, it's understandable.

[ballsofsteel]

Carson padded his stats once again in another loss.

[DennyG2]

Originally Posted by ballsofsteel

Carson padded his stats once again in another loss.

So true. Even ESPN made that exact comment in the recap of yesterdays game. Palmer is toast...

[DennyG2]

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

He's been very clear he wanted out becuz of ownership. Considering this team's ownership, it's understandable.

LOL

I am sure he feels much better playing in Oakland, the Syberia of the NFL. Way to go Carson...

Who-Dey!

[The Caped Crusader]

A lot of ignorant posts in here but I'll sit here and giggle because people think they know better. It's whatever.

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by ballsofsteel

Carson padded his stats once again in another loss.

Originally Posted by DennyG2

So true. Even ESPN made that exact comment in the recap of yesterdays game. Palmer is toast...

The final score was 20-17, and they were never down by more than 10 points. Padding stats implies that the Raiders were down by 3+ scores.

For people that claim not to miss Carson at all, you sure do like to talk about him any chance you get...

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by shaolinghost

The final score was 20-17, and they were never down by more than 10 points. Padding stats implies that the Raiders were down by 3+ scores.

For people that claim not to miss Carson at all, you sure do like to talk about him any chance you get...

Palmer was a major thing here for close to a decade... thats hard to forget.

[Wyche'sWarrior]

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

Yes, the Bengals are better without him, I'll give you that. He didn't want to be here anymore. The last thing a team needs is a jaded, dejected 30 something year old starting QB. I'd have liked to seen him give AJ and Gruden a chance and maybe he would have if MB hadn't played it the way he did. I think it came down to Marvin, Palmer would never admit it, but I think there's a good chance he felt the same way about Lewis that so many of us do, which is basically a "how on earth is this guy still the HC" sort of deal. So when MB took it public, and only gave him a new OC and not a new HC, it was a wrap.

But whatever man, I love Dalton, I'm no Palmer cheerleader. I'm just a staunch opponent of a QB-centric analysis of why teams fail or succeed. Yea, sometimes, a bad QB holds a good team back and sometimes a truly elite QB makes an average team good. But those are the exceptions and people talk as though it's the rule.....to do so is to ignore a fact that everyone knows....football is the ultimate team sport. You can have a dynasty with an average QB if your team is constructed properly. Just ask Terry Bradshaw. What's cool for us is we found a good one to replace a good one and Brat is gone as a result of the previous good one quitting, so how mad can I really be since it doesn't really matter how good your QB is if the OC is a total hack.

Couldn't agree more, furthermore, anyone who's ever PLAYED or COACHED the game, KNOWS this to be true. The rest are just armchair blowhards or Madden freaks. That said, who cares what they say or do Savage? They just don't know any better. People like that say things like "Rick Majerus was terrible, he couldn't win the big one....", or "Man, that Archie Manning was a BUM! Look at his record......", or "Pistol Pete was dreadful, he never won the big game...."

I take it with a grain of salt, they evidently don't know any better, cause they've never been a part of a football team. If they were, I guess they never heard the "I" in team speech.....

[Wyche'sWarrior]

Originally Posted by shaolinghost

The final score was 20-17, and they were never down by more than 10 points. Padding stats implies that the Raiders were down by 3+ scores.

For people that claim not to miss Carson at all, you sure do like to talk about him any chance you get...

Yeah, you know it was "garbage time" when Weeden drove the field on that awesome defense 3/4 of the way through the 4th quarter to seal the win....

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by Wyche'sWarrior

Yeah, you know it was "garbage time" when Weeden drove the field on that awesome defense 3/4 of the way through the 4th quarter to seal the win....

94 yard drive by a rookie QB with another rookie as his best receiver(Josh Gordon), who by the way, was a supplemental draft pick LOL. But, it's all Palmer's fault the Browns won because he threw a pick at the 6 yard line...

BengalsFan024: I completely understand that Palmer leaving the way he did more than ruffled a few feathers, but a lot of the people that keep saying "why are you still defending him, he's gone?", are the same people that take every opportunity to bash him. If the people that don't like him stop bringing him up, people like me wouldn't need to defend him.