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  #51  
Old 12-04-2012, 04:51 AM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

Summary of info posted so far on this thread.

Dalton has as many wins in 2 years as Carson in his whole career when he throws a pick six.

Dalton has more touchdowns than Carson, per attempt.

Dalton has more pick sixes than Carson, per attempt.

With this information finally brought forward, I can say unbiasedly, that Andy Dalton is a better quarterback.

Oh yea, and Dalton is about to lead us to back-to-back winning season which is something Carson NEVER managed.
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  #52  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:47 AM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

Dalton is about to lead the Bengals to their second straight Playoff appearance in two years. That is every single year that he has been here.

The Great Carson made Playoffs two times in his entire tenure in Cincinnati.

Oh yea, Bengals > Raiders in 2012 as well.
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  #53  
Old 12-04-2012, 07:06 AM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

This thread isn't a complete joke...?

Interesting.


Dalton is the man, come on now jr.
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  #54  
Old 12-04-2012, 08:16 AM
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Bengalrugby, lol
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  #55  
Old 12-04-2012, 08:19 AM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
So you want Palmer back?
Swing and a miss.
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  #56  
Old 12-04-2012, 08:47 AM
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bengals Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

Andy Dalton may throw a pick 6 now and then...But im sure we can all agree his mistakes in game tend to happen early and usually in the first half when the game is not on the line...He seems upset with himself when he messes up and misses a read or forces a ball but the distraction is temporarary and he tends to not let it bother him to the extent to what it costs his team drastically..It seems to me he bounces back right away on the next offensive series...Andy is young and learning the league and hes learning it quite fast..Hes earned the respect of all the offence,, Coaches included..I for 1 am quite optimistic with what ive seen outta the kid in his second year as our leader......

He is a true leader..
Hes all class...
To think we snagged him in the second round...after we were lucky enuff to draft A.J. in the first...
All credit defanatly goes to Marvin and company to recognize his talent and select him with such a crucial pick for the organization...
As much as i have despised Marvin as our head coach with his horible in game decisions as i know most of you guys feel/felt the same.. I have to give the man credit simply with the way hes allowed Jay Gruden to insert some trick plays that have all seemed to work and his aggresivness on 4th down this year...Since when can u remember Marvin elected to go for a 4th and 9 from midfield on the road in such a close game???...Hes taking chances and proving to his young players that he believes in them they can get it done...This team has been a breathe of fresh air this year for all of us...For them to rebound after the 4 game slump and bounce back with 4 straight solid wins..Im Just grateful for the turnaround and the rest of not only this season regardless of whether we make the playoffs this year(If we can remain as healthy as we can) we can defanatly knock out pittsburgh or even snag the other wildcard spot from Indy..We have such a huge future with so much sucsess in the AFC North and the NFL all together....I love Me Some Bengals!!!!....Keep making my Sundays during the season Seem to have a purpose!!..And Keep playing with heart and as a team!!!
WIn or lose...Give us a team to believe in!!!

Ive been a member of this board for quite sometime and have browsed the boards for awhile before becoming a member...Not signing up for a while simply because I would turn the board simply to vent...And to be completly honest with some of you diehard posters..I can honestly say that after reading some of your posts every sunday over the years i didnt feel the need to post..Just Read..I felt your pain and frustration in all your posts and to be completely honest as much as i Knew what to expect from some of your nasty sunday posts..I can truly say they have helped me to cope over the past 20 years as a bengal fan because this message board is more than just a message board..Its been more of a coping tool for me as im sure many of you And im thankful for you guys for sharing your anger and frustrations with this team over the years..Its made me feel like im not alone on sundays when family/friends dont really understand how i could be so upset when the Bengals not only lose but constantly have there @sses handed to them And seem like they had no problem not even consistently showing no compete in all phases as a team.......
WHO DEY!!!....To this current team from all coaching staff to the Practise sqaud and the second teamers to Our Exciting Young and energetic roster...Who are willing to play hard for the city of CINCINNATI and offer the fans of the Bengals some hope and allow us the self respect to admit to others we are BENGAL FANS.. and for once not admit that in shame...And I must also add that Im a Canadian 30 minutes away from the bills and and have to listen to the bills fans regardless of how bad they are every year for the past 10 years,, It still took alot for me to deny respect for the bills and become a bengals fan with such an influence...And trust me theres far too many pittsburgh fans up in this area too.. It makes me just as sick as im sure most board members to know how popular the stoolers are not only if the pitt area and not only in the USA but also in Canada as well, and worldwide for that matter..
Anyways im sure this drunken rant was far too long for most to read...But im WHO DEY proud right now and felt the need to post it...
Im honestly quite proud to be a Bengals Fan Today
And Excited about Tomorrow
WHO DEY!!!...WHO DEY..!!
WHO DEY think Gunna beat dem Bengals???
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBODY!!!!
Thats my drunk rant and For what its worth if you read it..thank you..
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  #57  
Old 12-04-2012, 08:48 AM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

It would be more troubling if Dalton was in his third year or beyond. Perhaps some folks have their expectations a bit too high in regards to a 2nd year QB playing with only one clear cut starting WR and a run game that was pathetic for half of the season due to inadequate OL play.
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  #58  
Old 12-04-2012, 08:59 AM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJTJ019 View Post
Andy Dalton may throw a pick 6 now and then...But im sure we can all agree his mistakes in game tend to happen early and usually in the first half when the game is not on the line...He seems upset with himself when he messes up and misses a read or forces a ball but the distraction is temporarary and he tends to not let it bother him to the extent to what it costs his team drastically..It seems to me he bounces back right away on the next offensive series...Andy is young and learning the league and hes learning it quite fast..Hes earned the respect of all the offence,, Coaches included..I for 1 am quite optimistic with what ive seen outta the kid in his second year as our leader......

He is a true leader..
Hes all class...
To think we snagged him in the second round...after we were lucky enuff to draft A.J. in the first...
All credit defanatly goes to Marvin and company to recognize his talent and select him with such a crucial pick for the organization...
As much as i have despised Marvin as our head coach with his horible in game decisions as i know most of you guys feel/felt the same.. I have to give the man credit simply with the way hes allowed Jay Gruden to insert some trick plays that have all seemed to work and his aggresivness on 4th down this year...Since when can u remember Marvin elected to go for a 4th and 9 from midfield on the road in such a close game???...Hes taking chances and proving to his young players that he believes in them they can get it done...This team has been a breathe of fresh air this year for all of us...For them to rebound after the 4 game slump and bounce back with 4 straight solid wins..Im Just grateful for the turnaround and the rest of not only this season regardless of whether we make the playoffs this year(If we can remain as healthy as we can) we can defanatly knock out pittsburgh or even snag the other wildcard spot from Indy..We have such a huge future with so much sucsess in the AFC North and the NFL all together....I love Me Some Bengals!!!!....Keep making my Sundays during the season Seem to have a purpose!!..And Keep playing with heart and as a team!!!
WIn or lose...Give us a team to believe in!!!

Ive been a member of this board for quite sometime and have browsed the boards for awhile before becoming a member...Not signing up for a while simply because I would turn the board simply to vent...And to be completly honest with some of you diehard posters..I can honestly say that after reading some of your posts every sunday over the years i didnt feel the need to post..Just Read..I felt your pain and frustration in all your posts and to be completely honest as much as i Knew what to expect from some of your nasty sunday posts..I can truly say they have helped me to cope over the past 20 years as a bengal fan because this message board is more than just a message board..Its been more of a coping tool for me as im sure many of you And im thankful for you guys for sharing your anger and frustrations with this team over the years..Its made me feel like im not alone on sundays when family/friends dont really understand how i could be so upset when the Bengals not only lose but constantly have there @sses handed to them And seem like they had no problem not even consistently showing no compete in all phases as a team.......
WHO DEY!!!....To this current team from all coaching staff to the Practise sqaud and the second teamers to Our Exciting Young and energetic roster...Who are willing to play hard for the city of CINCINNATI and offer the fans of the Bengals some hope and allow us the self respect to admit to others we are BENGAL FANS.. and for once not admit that in shame...And I must also add that Im a Canadian 30 minutes away from the bills and and have to listen to the bills fans regardless of how bad they are every year for the past 10 years,, It still took alot for me to deny respect for the bills and become a bengals fan with such an influence...And trust me theres far too many pittsburgh fans up in this area too.. It makes me just as sick as im sure most board members to know how popular the stoolers are not only if the pitt area and not only in the USA but also in Canada as well, and worldwide for that matter..
Anyways im sure this drunken rant was far too long for most to read...But im WHO DEY proud right now and felt the need to post it...
Im honestly quite proud to be a Bengals Fan Today
And Excited about Tomorrow
WHO DEY!!!...WHO DEY..!!
WHO DEY think Gunna beat dem Bengals???
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBODY!!!!
Thats my drunk rant and For what its worth if you read it..thank you..
Good post ya drunk basturd Way to come out of the shadows.
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  #59  
Old 12-04-2012, 09:14 AM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Cards View Post
Dalton is about to lead the Bengals to their second straight Playoff appearance in two years. That is every single year that he has been here.

The Great Carson made Playoffs two times in his entire tenure in Cincinnati.

Oh yea, Bengals > Raiders in 2012 as well.
How many years did Dalton have to put up with the Ocho?
How many years did Dalton have to run Bob Bratkowski plays?
How many years has Dalton had a defense ranked 20th or worse?
How many years did Dalton not have a legitimate threat at TE?

The Oline Dalton has now rivals the 2005 line
Dalton has a great running game now
Dalton has one of the most prolific receivers in the NFL. During Palmer's decline he didn't really have squat(still doesn't).

W/L record should be irrelivent since football is a team sport. Nobody really single-handedly wins or loses games; besides Peyton Manning.

Oh yeah, Jay Gruden>>>>>>>>>>>Greg Knapp.

You simply can't compare 2010 Palmer, or 2012 Palmer to 2011-2012 Dalton.

Palmer's Defense in 2010: 24th
Dalton's Defense in 2011: 9th
Palmer's Defense in 2012: 32nd
Dalton's Defense in 2012: 14th

Palmer's ground game in 2010:
27th in yards
29th in TDs
32nd in ypa
Dalton's ground game in 2011:
19th in yards
21st in TDs
27th in ypa
Palmer's ground game in 2012:
29th in yards
30th in TDs
28th in ypa
Dalton's ground game in 2012:
13th in yards
12th in TDs
16th in ypa

These are 2 TOTALLY different teams, and Dalton can't be the only reason for that. Or rather, Carson's departure. Whether people choose to believe it or not, Palmer's been a victim of bad coaching. Brat stunk his last couple years here(plenty evidence of his work down in JVille.) Now he's got Greg Knapp, who's absolutely reviled by the Raider fan base and is arguably worse than Brat. When Palmer had Hugh Jackson in Oakland, he was starting to put some great games together at the end of the season. Now, he's struggling to remain average with virtually the same offense he had last year.

Hate him or love him, doesn't matter, but at least recognize the situation he's in.
Edit: To be clear, I'm NOT saying Palmer is better, or that I'd rather have him here over Dalton. All I'm saying is, his situation compared to Dalton's is almost night and day. Dalton has a good defense, a good line, and now, a good running game. Palmer didn't, and still doesn't.

Last edited by shaolinghost; 12-04-2012 at 09:41 AM.
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  #60  
Old 12-04-2012, 09:23 AM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

Couldnt agree more with what you just said M.W...For all the negativity surrounding this team not only amongst the city and fans once Carson split but in the media...For god sakes Andy was drafted into what would be certain failure and a Horrid start and possible finish to a quick disgruntled career as a bengal.. He has been quite the surprise to most.. continuing his winning ways from a great college career at a somewhat off the radar team in texas (Delivering them an Unbeaten Season and a Rose bowl championship in 2010/11)..I may be wrong about that but i dont think so....To handleing all the pressures of being a starting QB in his first season with no supporting cast really other than another rookie drafted in the first round who he had no training camp with and very little time to even get to know prior to the start of his rookie season...AND YET....lead us to the playoffs....And Hes done nuthing but improve upon his rookie campaign with capabilities to set franchise records as a sophmore...Avoiding all signs of a so called Sophmore slump which many critics around the league and on these boards were certain his destiny this year...I say we let the 4 pick 6's slide....Wouldnt you?
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  #61  
Old 12-04-2012, 09:26 AM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

I was saying that Dalton is playing much better than this year AND Palmer's 2010 year. I can't find a website that specifically lists pick 6's for each QB in the NFL. I do know that Dalton has 4 and Palmer has 3. I would imagine that four pick 6's would be near the top, although considering 16 QBs have at least 10 picks, I would imagine that a few of those have several pick 6's. Not really sure where you're going with this. Are you trying to bash Marvin Lewis or are you saying Palmer > Dalton?


I understand. What is funny, and certain you get it, is that so many here are making a case for Dalton being better than Carson. I'm not saying Carson is better, and in fact believe Dalton is the better option for the team and may likely be the better QB at this point in their careers.

Dalton is at or near the top of the NFL throwing the pick 6. That was Palmer's move here as well. I wanted to track the top leaders of this dubious category and see how it played out.


The question I posed was one of coaching, and asking how much of an influence does the coaching have in this habitual offense? To no surprise, many simply attacked, as they completely missed the gist in a rush to defend, as Yankee pointed out.




Odd, since that never happens in Jungle Noise...
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  #62  
Old 12-04-2012, 09:31 AM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whodey23 View Post
Good post ya drunk basturd Way to come out of the shadows.
Well thank you sir..
It is now going on 9:30 am and i feel i either need another beer or my bed...
Dont ask me how im still up from the nite b4....
Yikes..Its only tuesday too...Only 5 days till Sunday...
Who dey to you Whodey23~!!
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  #63  
Old 12-04-2012, 09:34 AM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

Quote:
Originally Posted by BengalRugby View Post
dude you would complain about winning the lottery because the check they gave you was the wrong color


False.

In addition, are you comparing yesterday's win to an average citizen wining the lottery? Talk about apples and oranges, as the Bengals were supposed to win yesterday. Let alone I wasn't taking about winning, but QB play, most notably the pick 6.


I am happy for the win, in spite of the ugly, sloppy play by the offense. But the fact is, if the Bengals play like that against a good team, they lose much more often than they win. I want the Bengals to reach the post season and win, but they won't playing the kind of football they played Sunday.
Well we cannot know how many of those are on Dalton wrong routes etc. He was good for a pick a game towards the beginning of the year i attribute that to a 2nd year player trying to expand the offense.

Theres a difference when your Sophmore QB has a few pick 6's but is still leading the team to wins than when your 9 year vet Super Armed QB throws them and loses.

Edit im not sure where to look up that info but ill see what i can find im pretty sure Dalton has 4 so far this year. (one of which was a tipped ball that was caught in the endzone.)

Okay so far according to Defensive Stats sheet.

there have been 50 INTS returned for TD's this year. Dalton has 4(i believe)


Dalton and the Bengals do lead the league in this there are several teams just 1 behind

1 New England 0
2 NY Giants 1
3 Washington 0
4 Cincinnati 4
5 Houston 0
6 Green Bay 0
7 Pittsburgh 1
8 San Diego 2
9 Seattle 1
10 NY Jets 0
11 Cleveland 2
12 Buffalo 1
13 Minnesota 1
14 Kansas City 3
15 Detroit 2
16 Denver 2
17 Indianapolis 2
18 Atlanta 1
19 Dallas 3
20 Philadelphia 3
21 Baltimore 1
22 Oakland 2
23 Chicago 1
24 San Francisco 0
25 Arizona 3
26 New Orleans 3
27 Tennessee 3
28 Miami 2
29 Tampa Bay 2
30 Carolina 2
31 St. Louis 1
32 Jacksonville 3
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Last edited by XenoMorph; 12-04-2012 at 09:44 AM.
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  #64  
Old 12-04-2012, 12:00 PM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaolinghost View Post
How many years did Dalton have to put up with the Ocho?
How many years did Dalton have to run Bob Bratkowski plays?
How many years has Dalton had a defense ranked 20th or worse?
How many years did Dalton not have a legitimate threat at TE?

The Oline Dalton has now rivals the 2005 line
Dalton has a great running game now
Dalton has one of the most prolific receivers in the NFL. During Palmer's decline he didn't really have squat(still doesn't).

W/L record should be irrelivent since football is a team sport. Nobody really single-handedly wins or loses games; besides Peyton Manning.

Oh yeah, Jay Gruden>>>>>>>>>>>Greg Knapp.

You simply can't compare 2010 Palmer, or 2012 Palmer to 2011-2012 Dalton.

Palmer's Defense in 2010: 24th
Dalton's Defense in 2011: 9th
Palmer's Defense in 2012: 32nd
Dalton's Defense in 2012: 14th

Palmer's ground game in 2010:
27th in yards
29th in TDs
32nd in ypa
Dalton's ground game in 2011:
19th in yards
21st in TDs
27th in ypa
Palmer's ground game in 2012:
29th in yards
30th in TDs
28th in ypa
Dalton's ground game in 2012:
13th in yards
12th in TDs
16th in ypa

These are 2 TOTALLY different teams, and Dalton can't be the only reason for that. Or rather, Carson's departure. Whether people choose to believe it or not, Palmer's been a victim of bad coaching. Brat stunk his last couple years here(plenty evidence of his work down in JVille.) Now he's got Greg Knapp, who's absolutely reviled by the Raider fan base and is arguably worse than Brat. When Palmer had Hugh Jackson in Oakland, he was starting to put some great games together at the end of the season. Now, he's struggling to remain average with virtually the same offense he had last year.

Hate him or love him, doesn't matter, but at least recognize the situation he's in.
Edit: To be clear, I'm NOT saying Palmer is better, or that I'd rather have him here over Dalton. All I'm saying is, his situation compared to Dalton's is almost night and day. Dalton has a good defense, a good line, and now, a good running game. Palmer didn't, and still doesn't.

Yes I can. Because Carson had the opportunity to have all these great things Andy has, but declined. Was even contractually obligated.

But balked at these things, claimed they were not good enough and quit.

Dalton took it and ran with it. Kudos to him and his stats rival the greats in his first two years. That is in the entire NFL history. Many of those QB's had better teams than Dalton. But not his production. Certainly not Carson.

Dalton deserves credit. Sorry.
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  #65  
Old 12-04-2012, 12:15 PM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

The problem with Palmer is that he is too one dimensional. He has a great arm but no mobility and not a quick release either. He is only a pocket passer and no threat to run or scramble on broken plays.

He needs to be pampered and in a perfect world, running game, O-line, Star WR, and just the right Offensive Coordinator to succeed it seems.

All NFL QB's are targets by defenses. But Carson's statuesque pocket presence makes him a little too easy to scheme against as well.

Plus he is a quitter.
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  #66  
Old 12-04-2012, 12:28 PM
Ryan Mc Ryan Mc is offline
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

Quote:
Originally Posted by rfaulk34 View Post
The following are the year, game and result of Carson Palmer vs. Andy Dalton pick 6's.

Palmer:
2004
@Pitt-L
@NE-L

....

In Carson Palmer's Bengal career, he threw 14 pick 6's..
Minor correction, in 2004, Carson threw picks in BOTH Pitt games. One returned for a TD by Polamalu in the first game, one returned for a TD by James Farrior in the second game. He had 15 pick-sixes as a Bengal.

Anyways, not wanting to speak for the starter of the thread, but my understanding was this was not meant to be a Dalton v. Palmer thing as much as a question of whether the Bengals as a team have an issue with pick-sixes regardless of who is QB'ing. With that in mind, maybe I can contribute by noting that under Lewis's regime, Kitna had 2 pick-sixes as a starter in 2003 and 1 pick-six during the 4 games he started in 2004 after Carson got hurt. Ryan Fitzpatrick had 1 pick-six filling in for Carson in 2008. So, by my count, in Lewis's 9+ seasons we've had 24 pick-sixes by all QBs. Not sure how that compares to other teams over the same period though.

Last edited by Ryan Mc; 12-04-2012 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Mc View Post
Minor correction, in 2004, Carson threw picks in BOTH Pitt games. One returned for a TD by Polamalu in the first game, one returned for a TD by James Farrior in the second game. He had 15 pick-sixes as a Bengal.

Anyways, not wanting to speak for the starter of the thread, but my understanding was this was not meant to be a Dalton v. Palmer thing as much as a question of whether the Bengals as a team have an issue with pick-sixes regardless of who is QB'ing. With that in mind, maybe I can contribute by noting that under Lewis's regime, Kitna had 2 pick-sixes as a starter in 2003 and 1 pick-six during the 4 games he started in 2004 after Carson got hurt. Ryan Fitzpatrick had 1 pick-six filling in for Carson in 2008. So, by my count, in Lewis's 9+ seasons we've had 24 pick-sixes by all QBs. Not sure how that compares to other teams over the same period though.
That would be Interesting Ill see if i can find previous year stats to look at.
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  #68  
Old 12-04-2012, 01:24 PM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Mc View Post
Minor correction, in 2004, Carson threw picks in BOTH Pitt games. One returned for a TD by Polamalu in the first game, one returned for a TD by James Farrior in the second game. He had 15 pick-sixes as a Bengal.

Anyways, not wanting to speak for the starter of the thread, but my understanding was this was not meant to be a Dalton v. Palmer thing as much as a question of whether the Bengals as a team have an issue with pick-sixes regardless of who is QB'ing. With that in mind, maybe I can contribute by noting that under Lewis's regime, Kitna had 2 pick-sixes as a starter in 2003 and 1 pick-six during the 4 games he started in 2004 after Carson got hurt. Ryan Fitzpatrick had 1 pick-six filling in for Carson in 2008. So, by my count, in Lewis's 9+ seasons we've had 24 pick-sixes by all QBs. Not sure how that compares to other teams over the same period though.
You are correct. I couldn't open the 'analyse box score' for the home game so i googled a vid and they didn't show it. I went back and checked the play by play and Farrior did return the INT for a TD.

I'll update my OP. Thanks.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:33 PM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

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I was saying that Dalton is playing much better than this year AND Palmer's 2010 year. I can't find a website that specifically lists pick 6's for each QB in the NFL. I do know that Dalton has 4 and Palmer has 3. I would imagine that four pick 6's would be near the top, although considering 16 QBs have at least 10 picks, I would imagine that a few of those have several pick 6's. Not really sure where you're going with this. Are you trying to bash Marvin Lewis or are you saying Palmer > Dalton?


I understand. What is funny, and certain you get it, is that so many here are making a case for Dalton being better than Carson. I'm not saying Carson is better, and in fact believe Dalton is the better option for the team and may likely be the better QB at this point in their careers.

Dalton is at or near the top of the NFL throwing the pick 6. That was Palmer's move here as well. I wanted to track the top leaders of this dubious category and see how it played out.


The question I posed was one of coaching, and asking how much of an influence does the coaching have in this habitual offense? To no surprise, many simply attacked, as they completely missed the gist in a rush to defend, as Yankee pointed out.




Odd, since that never happens in Jungle Noise...
I don't think you can attribute any of it to coaching. Whether it's Palmer, Dalton, or any sub-par to elite QB, the QB makes the decision on the field to throw the ball and he's ultimately responsible for the outcome. There are extenuating circumstances like what happened to Dalton getting his arm hit in Wash this year or a ball bouncing off a receivers hands, etc. I don't see how any of it can be placed at the feet of coaches though.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

Here you go From 2002 till 2012 Bengals are 2nd in the league with the most pick 6's with detriot leading the way.

TEAM / Totals 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 Total
Baltimore 1 0 0 3 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 8
New England 1 1 1 2 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 8
Seattle 1 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 1 1 1 9
Green Bay 0 2 1 3 2 1 0 1 1 0 0 11
Indianapolis 0 1 0 0 1 0 3 0 4 1 2 12
Kansas City 0 1 1 1 1 2 2 0 1 0 3 12
Jacksonville 2 1 1 0 2 1 1 1 1 0 3 13
Oakland 1 0 3 4 0 0 0 0 0 3 2 13
San Diego 1 1 0 1 1 2 1 0 0 4 2 13
Washington 2 2 1 1 2 0 0 3 2 0 0 13
Atlanta 1 1 0 0 2 5 0 2 0 2 1 14
San Francisco 0 1 4 1 1 3 2 1 1 0 0 14
Houston 1 3 1 3 0 1 1 3 2 0 0 15
NY Giants 1 2 0 2 1 3 2 0 1 3 1 16
Chicago 1 2 1 0 4 2 1 0 2 3 1 17
Minnesota 2 1 0 0 4 0 2 1 3 3 1 17
Philadelphia 0 1 1 4 2 1 2 1 1 2 3 18
Pittsburgh 2 3 3 1 3 0 2 2 1 0 1 18
Buffalo 1 1 1 2 2 2 1 3 2 3 1 19
NY Jets 1 2 0 1 1 4 4 2 1 3 0 19
Denver 2 2 1 0 2 2 2 3 1 3 2 20
Tennessee 2 3 2 4 2 0 0 0 1 3 3 20
Carolina 1 2 3 3 0 1 0 3 5 1 2 21
Dallas 1 1 4 2 2 2 1 1 3 2 3 22
New Orleans 1 1 1 3 4 2 2 0 4 1 3 22
St. Louis 5 1 1 0 0 4 4 4 2 0 1 22
Arizona 1 4 1 1 1 3 1 3 4 1 3 23
Cleveland 1 4 2 0 2 2 5 2 3 1 2 24
Miami 2 3 8 0 2 0 2 3 2 1 2 25
Tampa Bay 3 4 4 2 1 2 2 2 1 2 2 25
Cincinnati 3 2 4 1 1 3 2 2 5 1 4 28
Detroit 5 4 2 2 2 2 5 3 2 3 2 32


Stats provided by http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/te...fense?xyzallow... Organized by ME...
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Last edited by XenoMorph; 12-04-2012 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:36 PM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

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I don't think you can attribute any of it to coaching. Whether it's Palmer, Dalton, or any sub-par to elite QB, the QB makes the decision on the field to throw the ball and he's ultimately responsible for the outcome. There are extenuating circumstances like what happened to Dalton getting his arm hit in Wash this year or a ball bouncing off a receivers hands, etc. I don't see how any of it can be placed at the feet of coaches though.
some play calls are quick passes where the QB passes to the WR without looking first.. which got palmer a couple times in 2010.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:39 PM
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bengals Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

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Originally Posted by M.W. View Post
It would be more troubling if Dalton was in his third year or beyond. Perhaps some folks have their expectations a bit too high in regards to a 2nd year QB playing with only one clear cut starting WR and a run game that was pathetic for half of the season due to inadequate OL play.


No doubt.

Every young QB makes mistakes. The problem with Palmer is he never learned from his
mistakes and kept making them and still makes them. I would be very surprised if Dalton
did not learn from these mistakes.

Dalton has already shown that he is learning very fast.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:40 PM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

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Originally Posted by rfaulk34 View Post
I don't think you can attribute any of it to coaching. Whether it's Palmer, Dalton, or any sub-par to elite QB, the QB makes the decision on the field to throw the ball and he's ultimately responsible for the outcome. There are extenuating circumstances like what happened to Dalton getting his arm hit in Wash this year or a ball bouncing off a receivers hands, etc. I don't see how any of it can be placed at the feet of coaches though.
I agree that not much if any can be placed on the coaches. I suppose the argument would be that the plays are easily deciphered by the defense and that the scheme and/or disguising of plays is bad. On the flip side, maybe that the coaches aren't preparing the QB well enough to read what a defense is doing or when a defense is going to jump a route, etc.

There certainly is a difference between a QB who knows when a safety will bite (for example) and can audible or pump fake for a huge gain and a QB who is oblivious that it's about to happen. How much of that is coaching, I don't know...
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

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Yes I can. Because Carson had the opportunity to have all these great things Andy has, but declined. Was even contractually obligated.

But balked at these things, claimed they were not good enough and quit.

Dalton took it and ran with it. Kudos to him and his stats rival the greats in his first two years. That is in the entire NFL history. Many of those QB's had better teams than Dalton. But not his production. Certainly not Carson.

Dalton deserves credit. Sorry.
I'm not saying Dalton doesn't deserve credit. He's performed above and beyond expectations, and he's certainly contributed to the success of the team, but to give him all the credit for the turnaround, and Palmer ALL of the blame for the reason the franchise was bad in 2010 isn't fair.

...and Dalton didn't have a choice. Besides, a bright-eyed, excited just to play in the NFL rookie doesn't have the same mentality as a beaten down(mentally and physically) 9year NFL veteran. Do you honestly think Palmer was the exact same way mentally in 2003 as he was in 2010?

Put things in perspective here:
Rookie #1 receiver. (nobody really knew AJ would be this good. Good, yes, but not All-Pro; not this fast.)
Virtual nobodies outside of that at the receiver spot.
Same RB who was crap in 2010.
Patchwork oline that wasn't guaranteed to be ANY better than last season.
A defense who had just lost there(then) best player.
A rookie OC with zero experience in the NFL other than as an assistant(on his bro's team no less).
A HC with a losing record.
The worst owner in the NFL.

All that was facing him had he come back. That was a worse situation than when he left. Granted, he's in a very bad situation in Oakland now, but that's really irrelevant since he didn't have much choice there either: Oakland, Cincinnati, or no football period.

Palmer had every legal right to do what he did. He was only obligated to the terms of the contract. Within those terms, is the right to hold out and/or retire. So legally, all he did was hold out. Mike Brown then traded him. What he did was pretty bad morally, yes, no argument there, but he surely didn't break, or even bend any laws.

Put Dalton in Palmer's place in 2010. Does Dalton lead that team to the playoffs? Keep in mind almost every skill player on that offense: Ocho, TO, Benson, Caldwell, Shipley, and Simpson are now either doing nothing in the NFL, or very little.

Last edited by shaolinghost; 12-04-2012 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:45 PM
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Default Re: **OFFICIAL***Pick 6 leader board, featuring Andy Dalton

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Originally Posted by BengalsFan024 View Post
some play calls are quick passes where the QB passes to the WR without looking first.. which got palmer a couple times in 2010.
True. And if a QB throws, assuming no one will be there, it's on the QB.

It's not always all on the QB, like with the pick 6 in Cleveland this year. Tate could have done a better job fighting for the ball. But i don't see how any of it can be on coaches.
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