New Picture of George Zimmerman Released

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by BengalRugby

When the cops told Zimmerman not to pursue he should have listened.....end of story. If it were my son, I would defend him. The kid may have a thug, a thief, an Angel....only the family and friends truly know. Bottom line is Zimmerman did his job as neighborhood watch by calling the police, his did NOT do his job by confronting Treyvon.


Police never told Zimmerman not to follow.


Another great example of the misinformation out there, followed by judgements made off the false "knowledge."

Part of the report was that zimmerman called 911 and told them he was following this kid and they told him to stop presuit.

[RhythmicGeek]

Originally Posted by BengalsFan024

Part of the report was that zimmerman called 911 and told them he was following this kid and they told him to stop presuit.

After reading over the transcript, the dispatcher's words were "we don't need you to do that."

It's semantics, but it is enough of a difference to say he wasn't told to stand down, just told he didn't need to follow. I had to look at it again because I had forgotten it.

[BengalRugby]

Part of the report was that zimmerman called 911 and told them he was following this kid and they told him to stop presuit.


A 911 dispatcher is not a police officer, and you are correct to a degree.


Just saying the two are very different in terms of training and authority.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by BengalRugby

A 911 dispatcher is not a police officer, and you are correct to a degree.


Just saying the two are very different in terms of training and authority.

A trained policeman would have told Zimmer the exact same thing.

Zimmer isn't exactly going to win over a jury by trying to convince them that the reasonable thing to do in this situation was to ignore the proper advice of a 911 dispatcher. Especially when it is also contrary to his Neighborhood Watch training.

[gmdino]

Have they released a picture of the unarmed teen shot to death?

...'cause I think that has some bearing on the case too.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by BengalsFan024

His (Zimmermans) Story about getting his head repeated slamed in the ground and fearing for his life would result in more than a broken nose.

That pic shows he got punched in the Face 1 time.

Wheres the pictures showing all the damage from having his head repeated smashed into the ground like he claimed?

It doesn't matter if he was injured or not. All that matters is who was the aggressor. You can't claim self defense when you are the aggressor even if you are getting your butt whipped.

[gmdino]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

It doesn't matter if he was injured or not. All that matters is who was the aggressor. You can't claim self defense when you are the aggressor even if you are getting your butt whipped.

He'll try.

They will say he felt he was in danger and all he did was follow the other guy without starting the fight.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by gmdino

He'll try.

They will say he felt he was in danger and all he did was follow the other guy without starting the fight.

Too much proof that Zimmerman was the aggressor. Treyvon tried to run away instead of confront Zimmerman. Zimmerman followed Treyvon even when he should not. Zimmerman showed his anger at Treyvon by cursing at him. Zimmerman has been charged with crimes of violence before.

The only proof that Treyvon was the aggressor comes from Zimmerman, and he has been proven to be liar. He got his bond revoked for lying to the judge. The shooting took place forty feet from where Zimmerman tried to claim he was attacked by Treyvon.

The defense team is desperate, and that is why they are releasing photos like this to the public. They are trying to influence the jury pool before the trial.

[THEBURG]

Originally Posted by BengalRugby

When the cops told Zimmerman not to pursue he should have listened.....end of story. If it were my son, I would defend him. The kid may have a thug, a thief, an Angel....only the family and friends truly know. Bottom line is Zimmerman did his job as neighborhood watch by calling the police, his did NOT do his job by confronting Treyvon.


Police never told Zimmerman not to follow.


Another great example of the misinformation out there, followed by judgements made off the false "knowledge."

Didn't they play a 911 call with someone telling him to not confront him, and how do you know everything, was you there?

[SteelCitySouth]

Originally Posted by THEBURG

was you there?

[Aquapod770]

Originally Posted by THEBURG

Didn't they play a 911 call with someone telling him to not confront him, and how do you know everything, was you there?

If you are referring to NBCs broadcast of the call, then I wouldn't completely believe that...


...considering they admit to editing the call to make Zimmerman sound racist.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1401167.html

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by Aquapod770

If you are referring to NBCs broadcast of the call,

He wasn't.

[RhythmicGeek]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

He wasn't.

Yeah, everyone's version had that part in it.

[BengalRugby]

A trained policeman would have told Zimmer the exact same thing.

Zimmer isn't exactly going to win over a jury by trying to convince them that the reasonable thing to do in this situation was to ignore the proper advice of a 911 dispatcher. Especially when it is also contrary to his Neighborhood Watch training.


Maybe, maybe not.


I could tell you to do something, and even if it is the same thing a policeman would tell you, it doesn't mean you should, or have to obey/listen.


The rest is your same old same old, and off the point I was making, so I'll pass. As I stated, a dispatcher doesn't have the same authority as an officer of the law. And those claiming is was a police officer telling Zimmerman something, are completely mistaken.


Just to keep things on point...

[pennsyltuckian]

Originally Posted by RhythmicGeek

1. This photo does nothing to prove one way or the other because as Fred said, the big question is who instigated it.

2. A broken/bloody nose and some superficial lacerations on the head from someone coming at you with fists is not justification for shooting someone, especially when you have the upper hand physically. No matter the outcome of this trial, no matter the laws in Florida, Zimmerman is a murderer in my eyes. Shooting an unarmed person like that because you're losing a fight just makes you craven.

The photo is relevant to some people's objections. Some aren't saying Zimmerman is innocent but instead saying he is not guilty of first degree murder.

If this situation met the requirements of first degree murder he wouldn't have taken that much of a beating. But we all know juries ignore the legal description of the crimes and go with opinion sometimes.

I don't know FL law but if the jury does pay attention to definition and FL defines first degree murder like most states do, he may get off completely. That depends on whether or not the jury is allowed to convict of a lesser crime or if the prosecution can list murder and manslaughter at the same time.

Edit: Okay, so what I was hearing on the radio about the DA upping the charges to first degree in late April didn't pan out. Still, I can see using that photo to partially demonstrate it wasn't second.

[Sher Khan]

Originally Posted by RhythmicGeek

1. This photo does nothing to prove one way or the other because as Fred said, the big question is who instigated it.

2. A broken/bloody nose and some superficial lacerations on the head from someone coming at you with fists is not justification for shooting someone, especially when you have the upper hand physically. No matter the outcome of this trial, no matter the laws in Florida, Zimmerman is a murderer in my eyes. Shooting an unarmed person like that because you're losing a fight just makes you craven.

Well no, the big question is who was armed and stalking someone and who was merely walking down the street. And we already have that answer.

[The Noob Avenger]

Originally Posted by Treee

because there is no indisputable evidence...

Which is exactly why Zimmerman should be acquitted. The prosecutors reached way too far with a 2nd degree murder charge. Involuntary Manslaughter would have been a home run.

[Treee]

Originally Posted by The Noob Avenger

Which is exactly why Zimmerman should be acquitted. The prosecutors reached way too far with a 2nd degree murder charge. Involuntary Manslaughter would have been a home run.

If it wasn't for the backwards state of Florida, then he would have had to prove that he made every effort to flee before he killed him.

[The Noob Avenger]

Originally Posted by Treee

If it wasn't for the backwards state of Florida, then he would have had to prove that he made every effort to flee before he killed him.

But that's exactly how stand your ground works. You have to have a reasonable fear for your life.

As much as you think he's a wimp, blows to the head are absolutely cause to fear for your life.

[pat5775]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tr...ting_Call1.ogg

Proof that Zimmerman admitted to following Trayvon even though he was told not to. This whole thing would never have happened if Zimmerman remained in his car and waited for police to show up.

[Treee]

Originally Posted by The Noob Avenger

But that's exactly how stand your ground works. You have to have a reasonable fear for your life.

As much as you think he's a wimp, blows to the head are absolutely cause to fear for your life.

Yea, and getting chased by some random guy is an absolute cause to punch them in the face.

I'm not taking either side, just saying that Stand Your Ground is a backwards law that allows people to kill other's with guns without proving they tried to flee first. I disagree with that.

[BengaliJack]

Originally Posted by pat5775

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/file:tr...ting_call1.ogg

proof that zimmerman admitted to following trayvon even though he was told not to. This whole thing would never have happened if zimmerman remained in his car and waited for police to show up.

bingo!!

[RhythmicGeek]

Originally Posted by The Noob Avenger

Which is exactly why Zimmerman should be acquitted. The prosecutors reached way too far with a 2nd degree murder charge. Involuntary Manslaughter would have been a home run.

Involuntary manslaughter? I point a loaded firearm at someone's chest and pull the trigger, there is nothing involuntary about that death.

Originally Posted by The Noob Avenger

But that's exactly how stand your ground works. You have to have a reasonable fear for your life.

As much as you think he's a wimp, blows to the head are absolutely cause to fear for your life.

I would argue being stalked by someone when it's dark out is cause to fear for your life, so wouldn't Martin's right to stand his ground come first since that is what happened?

Neither one of them had justification for their actions, period. Martin should have went on home, Zimmerman should have escalated force the way he did. There is no way you could convince me that his use of a firearm was justified. The law is ridiculous.

[The Noob Avenger]

Originally Posted by RhythmicGeek

Involuntary manslaughter? I point a loaded firearm at someone's chest and pull the trigger, there is nothing involuntary about that death.

I'm not defending his action. I'm saying manslaughter would have been a home run because it would have been simple to prove. There's nothing, NOTHING in this case that proves "beyond a reasonable doubt" for 2nd degree murder.

Also, you should have qualified "I point a loaded firearm at someone's chest and pull the trigger" with "with intent to pull the trigger", because 2 kids horsing around with daddy's gun with the result of one accidentally shooting the other in the chest would absolutely be involuntary.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by The Noob Avenger

But that's exactly how stand your ground works. You have to have a reasonable fear for your life.

As much as you think he's a wimp, blows to the head are absolutely cause to fear for your life.

You can't claim self defense (or the right to stand your ground) if you are the instigator of the confrontation. The aggressor is not entitled to the defense of "self defense" or "stand your ground".

In this case all of the evidence (except Zimmerman's testimony) points to Zimmerman being the aggressor. The problem that Zimmerman faces is that he is a proven liar and has zero credibility. Since the only evidence that will save him is his own testimony he doesn't have a chance.