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  #51  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:21 AM
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Shake n Blake Shake n Blake is offline
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

To those saying NO to a DE in the first round:

1. What is the strength of our defense? The pass rush. Geno is great and will be here for quite awhile (hopefully), but what about MJ and Dunlap? MJ is having a flukey season where he's collected half his sacks against 2nd and 3rd string tackles.

He's now going to want/get elite DE money. I don't think he's worth it to be quite honest. As for Dunlap, he hasn't been consistent or healthy during his career. I think he's more talented than MJ, but he's just not a reliable player overall. So in order to keep the pass rush strong, you have to take a good pass rusher every few drafts. The Giants took Pierre-Paul when they looked "set" with Tuck and Umenyiora. All they did was win the superbowl.

2. If not a DE, who would you take?

QB- Not a need.
RB- No RBs worth a 1st rounder this year.
WR- We have Sanu and Jones.
TE- Not a need.
T- Not an immediate need.
G- Not a need.
C- Not a need.
DT- Not a need.
LB- I'd be okay with this, but a good pass rusher is a better value and plenty of good LBs can be had later on.
CB- Not really a need, at least not enough to be addressed with a 1st round pick.
S- Safety is not a good value in round one. Plenty of good safeties can be had later on.
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  #52  
Old 12-02-2012, 11:58 PM
Hammerstripes Hammerstripes is offline
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

You take the highest rated guy on your board.

With the way things are shaping up, the Bengals will be drafting in the 19-25 range. Most (if not all) of the top pass rushers will be off the board - that makes taking a DE a poor value in the first.

I would take a S in the first round IF we are drafting 19 or later.
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  #53  
Old 12-03-2012, 12:46 AM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

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Originally Posted by Hammerstripes View Post
You take the highest rated guy on your board.

With the way things are shaping up, the Bengals will be drafting in the 19-25 range. Most (if not all) of the top pass rushers will be off the board - that makes taking a DE a poor value in the first.

I would take a S in the first round IF we are drafting 19 or later.
Care to throw a name out?

Reid is the only one I have heard mentioned as a 1st round pick (and I think that is a reach).

Seems like the 2nd or 3rd would be a good round to target a safety.
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  #54  
Old 12-03-2012, 12:49 AM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

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Care to throw a name out?

Reid is the only one I have heard mentioned as a 1st round pick (and I think that is a reach).

Seems like the 2nd or 3rd would be a good round to target a safety.
I totally agree. I think Rambo(3rd) or S Williams(late 3rd or 4th) and DJ Swearinger(4th-5th) are what we'll be looking at. Possibly Vacarro or Lester with the 2B pick.
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  #55  
Old 12-03-2012, 09:55 AM
Hammerstripes Hammerstripes is offline
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

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Originally Posted by Archer View Post
Care to throw a name out?

Reid is the only one I have heard mentioned as a 1st round pick (and I think that is a reach).

Seems like the 2nd or 3rd would be a good round to target a safety.
At this point I would take Vacarro IF we are drafting in the 20s. He carries a first round grade on some sites and is by far the best safety in coverage.
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  #56  
Old 12-03-2012, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer View Post
Care to throw a name out?

Reid is the only one I have heard mentioned as a 1st round pick (and I think that is a reach).

Seems like the 2nd or 3rd would be a good round to target a safety.
Tony Jefferson, Oklahoma.

He could fall out of the first, but that, to me, is our biggest (only) area of weakness, so do we really want to risk him not falling?
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  #57  
Old 12-03-2012, 11:28 AM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
To those saying NO to a DE in the first round:

1. What is the strength of our defense? The pass rush. Geno is great and will be here for quite awhile (hopefully), but what about MJ and Dunlap? MJ is having a flukey season where he's collected half his sacks against 2nd and 3rd string tackles.

He's now going to want/get elite DE money. I don't think he's worth it to be quite honest. As for Dunlap, he hasn't been consistent or healthy during his career. I think he's more talented than MJ, but he's just not a reliable player overall. So in order to keep the pass rush strong, you have to take a good pass rusher every few drafts. The Giants took Pierre-Paul when they looked "set" with Tuck and Umenyiora. All they did was win the superbowl.

2. If not a DE, who would you take?

QB- Not a need.
RB- No RBs worth a 1st rounder this year.
WR- We have Sanu and Jones.
TE- Not a need.
T- Not an immediate need.
G- Not a need.
C- Not a need.
DT- Not a need.
LB- I'd be okay with this, but a good pass rusher is a better value and plenty of good LBs can be had later on.
CB- Not really a need, at least not enough to be addressed with a 1st round pick.
S- Safety is not a good value in round one. Plenty of good safeties can be had later on.
We have several CBs who are old, and/or on the last year of their contract, one who can't seem to stay healthy (so far), and one who hasn't played all year. And none of them have Mike Wallace/Torey Smith speed. If we can get one who does, I'd be all for it.
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  #58  
Old 12-03-2012, 12:12 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

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Originally Posted by Jasonew6 View Post
We have several CBs who are old, and/or on the last year of their contract, one who can't seem to stay healthy (so far), and one who hasn't played all year. And none of them have Mike Wallace/Torey Smith speed. If we can get one who does, I'd be all for it.
Bradley Roby (OSU) is a redshirt Sophomore who may declare. He runs around a 4.35 40, perhaps even faster. If he ends up being there when we pick in the 1st, it'd be hard to pass him up.
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  #59  
Old 12-03-2012, 12:34 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonew6 View Post
We have several CBs who are old, and/or on the last year of their contract, one who can't seem to stay healthy (so far), and one who hasn't played all year. And none of them have Mike Wallace/Torey Smith speed. If we can get one who does, I'd be all for it.
Very few people do. But I keep seeing you and others bring this up when in reality they haven't killed us. Smith had one good game against us (his first) but has been putrid since.
Torrey Smith - 2 catches 57 yards 0 TD, 5 catches 33 yards 0 TD, 6 catches 165 yards 1 TD.
averaging 4 catches and 85 yards. How does he do it?

Now let's look at how Wallace has killed us the last 2 years....
Mike Wallace - 8 catches 52 yards 0 TD, 6 catches 54 yards 0 TD, 3 catches 38 yards 2 TD.
averaging 6 catches and 48 yards. Killing us clearly.

Wow, how can we contain that speed
Those two are a combined 30 catches, 399 yards and 3 TDs against us. In SIX GAMES.

Outside of the one (so far) seemingly anomaly of a game vs Smith, these two are not the reason we dont beat those teams.

Why didn't we beat Baltimore or Pitt this year? Probably because of the lack of PASS RUSH those games.
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  #60  
Old 12-07-2012, 05:19 AM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
To those saying NO to a DE in the first round:

1. What is the strength of our defense? The pass rush. Geno is great and will be here for quite awhile (hopefully), but what about MJ and Dunlap? MJ is having a flukey season where he's collected half his sacks against 2nd and 3rd string tackles.

He's now going to want/get elite DE money. I don't think he's worth it to be quite honest. As for Dunlap, he hasn't been consistent or healthy during his career. I think he's more talented than MJ, but he's just not a reliable player overall. So in order to keep the pass rush strong, you have to take a good pass rusher every few drafts. The Giants took Pierre-Paul when they looked "set" with Tuck and Umenyiora. All they did was win the superbowl.

2. If not a DE, who would you take?

QB- Not a need.
RB- No RBs worth a 1st rounder this year.
WR- We have Sanu and Jones.
TE- Not a need.
T- Not an immediate need.
G- Not a need.
C- Not a need.
DT- Not a need.
LB- I'd be okay with this, but a good pass rusher is a better value and plenty of good LBs can be had later on.
CB- Not really a need, at least not enough to be addressed with a 1st round pick.
S- Safety is not a good value in round one. Plenty of good safeties can be had later on.
QB- Not a need
RB- Definitely a need.
WR-Not a need in the 1st
TE- Not a need, but the Bengals always draft1 or 2.
T- Not a need yet
G- Definitely a need
DT- Not a need
LB- Need about 2 of these
CB- I'll refer to you as "Captain Insano" if you ever say this is not a need again.
S- Biggest need.
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  #61  
Old 12-07-2012, 12:59 PM
BengalDawg BengalDawg is offline
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

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G- Definitely a need
.
I don't see this as a need at all. Boiling and Zeitler are the starters and we could release wharton, but I wouldn't say its a need. We are fine at guard
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  #62  
Old 12-07-2012, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoDeyLeisure View Post
QB- Not a need
RB- Definitely a need.
WR-Not a need in the 1st
TE- Not a need, but the Bengals always draft1 or 2.
T- Not a need yet
G- Definitely a need
DT- Not a need
LB- Need about 2 of these
CB- I'll refer to you as "Captain Insano" if you ever say this is not a need again.
S- Biggest need.
RB- Please name a RB worthy of a 1st round pick.
WR- We agree here.
TE- I will call you captain insano if you think we will take a 1st round TE with Gresh and Charles on the roster.
T- We agree here.
G- Please explain why you think this is a need at all, let alone one that we should burn another 1st round pick on.
DT- We agree here.
LB- I agree, but is LB a more valuable position than a good pass rusher? We can always take LBs after the 1st round.
CB- I'm all for taking a CB, but not in round 1. Not with Leon, Dre Kirk and Adam on the roster.
S- What safety is worth a first round pick? Mike Brown has never drafted a safety in the 1st round. Also, there are plenty of solid safeties that can be had later.
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  #63  
Old 12-07-2012, 01:40 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoDeyLeisure View Post
QB- Not a need
RB- Definitely a need.
WR-Not a need in the 1st
TE- Not a need, but the Bengals always draft1 or 2.
T- Not a need yet
G- Definitely a need
DT- Not a need
LB- Need about 2 of these
CB- I'll refer to you as "Captain Insano" if you ever say this is not a need again.
S- Biggest need.
This list is comical.
TE - no we dont.
G - how on EARTH is this a need?
DT - More of a need than G
CB - Leon Hall - check. First rounder Kirkpatrick - check. Allen - check. Sorry but we wont spend a high pick on a dime CB.
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  #64  
Old 12-07-2012, 01:53 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

pass rushers rule
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1st Eric Kendricks LB
2nd Jordan Richards S
3rd Tyrus Thompson T
4th Phillip Dorsett WR
5th Junior Sylvestre LB
6th Randall Evans CB
7th Owamagbe Odighizuwa DE
2014 draft
1st Deone Bucannon S
2nd Cyrus Kouandjio T
3rd Pierre Desir CB
UDFA Keith Smith LB
UDFA Austin Franklin WR
UDFA Dede Lattimore LB
UDFA Jerome Smith RB
UDFA Chaz Sutton DE
UDFA Josh Stewart WR
UDFA Avery Patterson CB
UDFA Antonio Andrews RB
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  #65  
Old 12-07-2012, 02:23 PM
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Default Re: Why do so many want a DE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoDeyLeisure View Post
QB- Not a need
RB- Definitely a need.
WR-Not a need in the 1st
TE- Not a need, but the Bengals always draft1 or 2.
T- Not a need yet
G- Definitely a need
DT- Not a need
LB- Need about 2 of these
CB- I'll refer to you as "Captain Insano" if you ever say this is not a need again.
S- Biggest need.
DE- With MJ, Geathers, and Gilberry all set to hit FA, we need a DE regardless. Fresh pass rushers are always a plus.

QB-agreed

RB-agreed

WR-debatable. A great WR pick to go along with a good RB could be just what this offense needs to boost itself into elite offense status. Look at the Falcons with Jones and White for how much he's helped boost their offense.

TE-starting TE no, but a good blocking TE would be good. Michael Williams out of Alabama would be the perfect candidate.

OT-Agreed. I hope we re-sign Smith, but I'd also be ok with finally giving Collins his shot at starting. A backup OT wouldn't hurt though.

OG-Not a need IMO, at least not a starter. Zeitler and Boling have continued to improve every game, and they are both pretty good. We still have Wharton, and Robinson is a backup OG as well.

DT-agreed

LB-Definitely need one starter. I'd prefer to bring back Howard and draft a SAM.

CB-Depth is a need. Ghee was looking good before injury, hopefully we re-sign Adam Jones, and I'd be fine with re-signing either Newman or Clements, but not both. Marc Anthony is a good mid to late round pick that excels in run and pass defense, but needs to work on holding into the ball when it hits his hands.

S- Agreed. We need someone to pair with Nelson. Luckily, Nelson has the ability to be decent in run and pass defense, so he can play either FS or SS. So we could be safe going with a good overall safety that can also play SS or FS.
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