Here's Carson

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by DennyG2

So true. Even ESPN made that exact comment in the recap of yesterdays game. Palmer is toast...

You know what's funny dude. All you are doing is making "excuses" for the fact that the dude is having a good year for an incredibly bad team.

QB's who are "toast", or "terrible", or even "mediocre", don't throw for 3800+, 22 TDs to 14 ints, with three games to go for a team that is 29th in the league in rushing and by far the worst defense in the league.

Have some of those numbers happened when a game was out of hand? Sure, but the majority of them? Absolutely not. They've been competitive in most of their games and the vast majority of his stats have occurred when the final outcome was yet to be decided.

Face it Denny, you may not like him, but you're grasping at straws when you try to justify saying that he's "terrible" or "toast". It's quite obvious considering the circumstances in Oakland that he's still got some good football left in him.

[DennyG2]

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

You know what's funny dude. All you are doing is making "excuses" for the fact that the dude is having a good year for an incredibly bad team.

QB's who are "toast", or "terrible", or even "mediocre", don't throw for 3800+, 22 TDs to 14 ints, with three games to go for a team that is 29th in the league in rushing and by far the worst defense in the league.

Have some of those numbers happened when a game was out of hand? Sure, but the majority of them? Absolutely not. They've been competitive in most of their games and the vast majority of his stats have occurred when the final outcome was yet to be decided.

Face it Denny, you may not like him, but you're grasping at straws when you try to justify saying that he's "terrible" or "toast". It's quite obvious considering the circumstances in Oakland that he's still got some good football left in him.

You call being rated in the bottom third of the league along with an NFL leading 9 consecutive games with an INT a good season? That is what is sad Mr. Palmer apologist. Admit it...he is toast...

Who-Dey!

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by DennyG2

You call being rated in the bottom third of the league along with an NFL leading 9 consecutive games with an INT a good season? That is what is sad Mr. Palmer apologist. Admit it...he is toast...

Who-Dey!

Mike Mayock thinks differently. He said last night that Palmer catches way too much heat for how the Raiders are playing, and that he's a decent QB with little talent around him.

I counted at least 3 passes that were dropped that would have resulted in 1st downs, and one would have been a 30+ yarder to Streater. How good can a QB look when 2 of his starting receivers(Heyward-Bey and Moore) were benched for dropping passes? Sure, Palmer threw a bad int in the red zone during the 1st quarter, but other than that, he played quite well against a formidable defense.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by DennyG2

You call being rated in the bottom third of the league along with an NFL leading 9 consecutive games with an INT a good season? That is what is sad Mr. Palmer apologist. Admit it...he is toast...

Who-Dey!

Actually, he's top half of the league in rating on an undeniably terrible team. Second in the league in yards and has the same rating as Eli Manning, who plays for an excellent team.

How then, if he's "toast", can he manage almost as many yards as Peyton and the same rating as Eli, for such a clearly awful team on which he has nothing to work with?

Admit it, it's obvious the dude is playing well considering the situation he's in and it's killing you.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by shaolinghost

Mike Mayock thinks differently. He said last night that Palmer catches way too much heat for how the Raiders are playing, and that he's a decent QB with little talent around him.

I counted at least 3 passes that were dropped that would have resulted in 1st downs, and one would have been a 30+ yarder to Streater. How good can a QB look when 2 of his starting receivers(Heyward-Bey and Moore) were benched for dropping passes? Sure, Palmer threw a bad int in the red zone during the 1st quarter, but other than that, he played quite well against a formidable defense.

Mike Mayock doesn't watch the games and is a Palmer "apologist" no doubt.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by shaolinghost

Mike Mayock thinks differently. He said last night that Palmer catches way too much heat for how the Raiders are playing, and that he's a decent QB with little talent around him.

I counted at least 3 passes that were dropped that would have resulted in 1st downs, and one would have been a 30+ yarder to Streater. How good can a QB look when 2 of his starting receivers(Heyward-Bey and Moore) were benched for dropping passes? Sure, Palmer threw a bad int in the red zone during the 1st quarter, but other than that, he played quite well against a formidable defense.

I don't think Carson played a good game. He got good help from his run game and defense, but they still came out with the loss. Why? An untimely pick and a fumble by Carson that directly led to 10 points for Denver in a game they lost by 13. Other than a couple solid drives, Carson was ineffective and the offense looked stagnant.

It's funny how Carson's stats usually come out looking solid, yet if you watch the games, he doesn't look that sharp. He's still incredibly streaky and prone to at least a few throws that really make you scratch your head. Can't blame that on Chad running incorrect routes now, can we?

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by shaolinghost

Mike Mayock thinks differently. He said last night that Palmer catches way too much heat for how the Raiders are playing, and that he's a decent QB with little talent around him.

I counted at least 3 passes that were dropped that would have resulted in 1st downs, and one would have been a 30+ yarder to Streater. How good can a QB look when 2 of his starting receivers(Heyward-Bey and Moore) were benched for dropping passes? Sure, Palmer threw a bad int in the red zone during the 1st quarter, but other than that, he played quite well against a formidable defense.

I don't think Carson played a good game. He got good help from his run game and defense, but they still came out with the loss. Why? An untimely pick and a fumble by Carson that directly led to 10 points for Denver in a game they lost by 13. Other than a couple really good drives, Carson was ineffective and the offense looked stagnant.

It's funny how Carson's stats usually come out looking solid, yet if you watch the games, he doesn't look that sharp. He's still incredibly streaky and prone to at least a few throws that really make you scratch your head. Can't blame that on Chad running incorrect routes now, can we?

[ibengals]

Palmer is far from toast, and this is coming from someone that was hoping he'd fall flat on his face. Ask any Raider fan and they'll tell you the only reason the Raiders aren't 0-12 is because of Carson Palmer. They have every right to be furious about their season, and guess what, they're not blaming Palmer. Fact is, Carson is putting up huge numbers behind one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL, the WORST running game, and his best receiver is a tight end named Brandon Myers, who until this season, was so unbelievably irrelevant that I'm positive no one on this board even knew who he was.

Having his best season since 2007.

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

I don't think Carson played a good game. He got good help from his run game and defense, but they still came out with the loss. Why? An untimely pick and a fumble by Carson that directly led to 10 points for Denver in a game they lost by 13. Other than a couple solid drives, Carson was ineffective and the offense looked stagnant.

It's funny how Carson's stats usually come out looking solid, yet if you watch the games, he doesn't look that sharp. He's still incredibly streaky and prone to at least a few throws that really make you scratch your head. Can't blame that on Chad running incorrect routes now, can we?

Those obvious dropped passes could have led to points. In fact, the one Streater dropped was well inside Bronco's territory and would have at least been a field goal. Also, the first drive of the game McFadden dropped a pass that would have resulted in a 1st down, thus killing the drive. Another pass over the middle that was right on target was dropped. The receiver had nobody around him and would have gotten some decent yards after catch.

Sure, Palmer played his part in the loss, but the only thing I'm gonna put squarely on him is the int. That sack fumble would likely have been prevented had his RT had help blocking one of the best pass rushers in the NFL, but that didn't happen thanks to poor coaching. The int as well, while totally his fault, didn't have to result in points for the Broncos. The Raider D let them drive about 40-50 yards for the fg.

Also, the running game wasn't good when breaking down the numbers. DMC had a run for like 34 yards, but his totals were 11carries for 52 yards. I'll agree that the threat of him being out there made the coverage a little softer for Palmer, but other than that he still didn't get much help. Overall I'd say a combination of bad coaching, bad defense, dropped passes, DMC being ineffective in a ZBS, and Palmer making some untimely bad decisions all lead to what is now a 3-10 Raiders team.

Expanding a little on the coaching: Greg Knapp is a younger version of Bob Bratkowski. He wants the players to conform to his system instead of tweaking the system to fit to the players. For example; you have a power runner running in a zone scheme. You have 2 receivers that run sub 4.4 and can't catch very well, but you're in a WC style dink and dunk offense and rarely take shots down field. Of course you're gonna struggle.

Outside of the obviously elite QBs(Peyton, Brees, Brady, Rodgers) I don't see anyone else putting this team in a much better position to win.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by shaolinghost

Those obvious dropped passes could have led to points. In fact, the one Streater dropped was well inside Bronco's territory and would have at least been a field goal. Also, the first drive of the game McFadden dropped a pass that would have resulted in a 1st down, thus killing the drive. Another pass over the middle that was right on target was dropped. The receiver had nobody around him and would have gotten some decent yards after catch.

Sure, Palmer played his part in the loss, but the only thing I'm gonna put squarely on him is the int. That sack fumble would likely have been prevented had his RT had help blocking one of the best pass rushers in the NFL, but that didn't happen thanks to poor coaching. The int as well, while totally his fault, didn't have to result in points for the Broncos. The Raider D let them drive about 40-50 yards for the fg.

Also, the running game wasn't good when breaking down the numbers. DMC had a run for like 34 yards, but his totals were 11carries for 52 yards. I'll agree that the threat of him being out there made the coverage a little softer for Palmer, but other than that he still didn't get much help. Overall I'd say a combination of bad coaching, bad defense, dropped passes, DMC being ineffective in a ZBS, and Palmer making some untimely bad decisions all lead to what is now a 3-10 Raiders team.

Expanding a little on the coaching: Greg Knapp is a younger version of Bob Bratkowski. He wants the players to conform to his system instead of tweaking the system to fit to the players. For example; you have a power runner running in a zone scheme. You have 2 receivers that run sub 4.4 and can't catch very well, but you're in a WC style dink and dunk offense and rarely take shots down field. Of course you're gonna struggle.

Outside of the obviously elite QBs(Peyton, Brees, Brady, Rodgers) I don't see anyone else putting this team in a much better position to win.

I'm certainly not blaming Carson for the season they're having. In all honestly if I were a Raiders fan, I would probably be ticked that they let Hue go after one 8-8 season.

That said, in the 3 games I've watched, Carson still looks like the same QB he's been for much of his career. Very streaky and occasionally scatter shot. The int was a bad throw, and the fumble was another mental lapse on his part.

The problem with Carson is that he's not good enough to elevate a bad team. He needs to find a really good team that just needs a competent QB. The only team I can think of that would be better for Carson (and would actually want him) would be the Cardinals. Their defense is solid and they have Fitzgerald. If they can find a RB during the offseason, that would be an ideal situation for Carson.

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

I'm certainly not blaming Carson for the season they're having. In all honestly if I were a Raiders fan, I would probably be ticked that they let Hue go after one 8-8 season.

That said, in the 3 games I've watched, Carson still looks like the same QB he's been for much of his career. Very streaky and occasionally scatter shot. The int was a bad throw, and the fumble was another mental lapse on his part.

The problem with Carson is that he's not good enough to elevate a bad team. He needs to find a really good team that just needs a competent QB. The only team I can think of that would be better for Carson (and would actually want him) would be the Cardinals. Their defense is solid and they have Fitzgerald. If they can find a RB during the offseason, that would be an ideal situation for Carson.

I'm thinking the Cardinals would be a better fit for him as well. The Raiders are just way too far away from being contenders that nobody outside of Peyton could have them in contention right now.

What's really happening from what I'm seeing, is over the past 4-5 seasons, the personnel hasn't matched what the OC wants to do.
-Brat wanted to stay with the Coryell type offense when he didn't have a good line to pass block.
-Knapp wants to run a ZBS and a WC type offense when the RB is better suited to a power scheme, and the receivers would be more effective in a Coryell type offense.

Explaining the streaky play and bad passes, one reason might be he feels he has to force things in order for anything to happen. In 09 he didn't really make a lot of bad throws, but that was because he had a good running game and defense to rely on.

2005-2007, 2009(64games): 32attempts per game, 63.9%, 1.84td/int ratio, 91.3rtg
2008, 2010, 2011-2012(43games): 37attempts per game, 60.4%, 1.19td/int ratio, 79.3rtg

Add to that, about a handful of Palmer's ints this season are a direct result of receivers not being able to catch passes. Either way though, Palmer isn't performing like anybody thinks he should be, but I think a rating of 90-95 is where he could get to if he had a better supporting cast. Alex Smith turned it all the way around when Harbaugh came to SF, so I've gotta believe Palmer could make a similar improvement given the right scenario.